Medzomorak

Why do Lego catalogs have no dioramas anymore?

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I've mentioned this in a previous topic of mine half a years ago and started to ask the same question again after checking the new 2020 catalog. I'm not 10 anymore of course thus I'm sure my over-nostalgic attitude is not enough for a rightful outcry. I am really interested in your different opinions.

First of all I have to say new catalogs are an improvement compared to the last decade ones (I actually meant the 2000s, forgot we're in a new decade, yikes)*. They are well ordered, the sets fill more space. All in all would not call it a disaster.

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Also true that pseudo and fully made dioramas were present from time to time: 

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Nowadays they are mostly in their own cells with some low-detailed digital design as a background, check the late 2019 catalog for an example. My main issue that these digital surroundings somewhat takes the whole Lego feeling out of the picture, makes it more like a cereal cover. They show some action but have no organic connection to each other.

LKhljs3.pngA90Dssl.png

 

We all remember the oldschool dioramas from the 80s and 90s we all gazed upon for hours as little kids. Painted backgrounds, hybrid model kit and Lego parts as an environment. Also using digital tools but only to give a more realistic display scene that a child or an adult builder would imagine while creating stuff with Lego.

img001.jpgimg003.jpgimg002.jpgimg005.jpg

 

So what do you think, which approach was better? My choice is obvious but I'm strongly biassed by nostalgia. I remember being 10 in 2005 and I hated the catalogs at that time, I've always borrowerd the '89, '92... ones from my older brother.

Is the new simpler design much more marketable? Would kids love the old ones better? They were obviously more complex and expensive but catalogs are still in every brand store, I figured it would still make a difference. Also The Lego House has a lot of dioramas presented as well, like the Tree of Creativity:

Képtalálat a következőre: „lego house tree of creativity”kwQpsv7.png

 

So I'm not sure why is it not an approach in catalogs again. I was searching a little bit and found Pixel Fox's creations. I think with today's advanced photo editing tools this direction would be the proper improvement:

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Edited by Medzomorak

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Maybe they removed them because it's a lot easier and cheaper? LEGO has been cutting corners a lot lately, so I wouldn't be surprised if that is the reason.

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20 minutes ago, Lego David said:

Maybe they removed them because it's a lot easier and cheaper? LEGO has been cutting corners a lot lately, so I wouldn't be surprised if that is the reason.

Technically it started ~20 years ago, when the first horrible examples have emerged. This one is the worst I've ever seen and quite and old one (1998 if I'm correct):

LHf3iXw.pngC29cbJ3.png

I think you are right, it is cheaper and easier. I'm just not sure why is it such a great expenditure these days when any Lego museum has several workers to create dioramas every week, while the catalog is going to be seen by the whole world.

Edited by Medzomorak

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I think the internet plays a big role.

Paper Catalogs right now might still reach a lot of people but compared to the 80s and 90s it's certainly not one of the main media outlets for LEGO sets anymore, back then they even included smaller versions of catalogs/product paper in sets.

I know the "Paper" catalogs can be viewed online but those aren't usually advertised a lot unless it's a LEGO specific webshop/fansite. (talking about the localized ones)

A lot of scenes for sets also moved to short product videos, designer videos and TV shows for some themes.

Example : 

 

Edited by TeriXeri

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I think it has to do with aesthetic, cleanliness and straightforward advertising. The new catalogs show exactly what product you're getting and whats inside. With the clearly defined borders around each set the kid and the parent both know exactly what is in each set.

With those crazy dioramas, while cool and fun to look at, the kid might be mislead. They're also very cluttered and the actual product images are small because the diorama takes up so much space.

Regarding the cost, a lot of the official set images are now are digital renders. Guessing they have their own software for that which probably wasn't cheap. There hasn't been much talk or even noticing of that.

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54 minutes ago, koalayummies said:

Regarding the cost, a lot of the official set images are now are digital renders. Guessing they have their own software for that which probably wasn't cheap. There hasn't been much talk or even noticing of that.

I would say they use some kind of blender plugin. I've been working on this lately using the free stud.io and there is already an option to create very high resouliton renders.

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With more professional software solutions and a couple of skilled dudes a diorama would be quite 'cheap'. I think the marketing experts of Lego just decided that this is not the best way to sell stuff as you guys have suggested. Either way I'm still hoping this practice will come back in the future.

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Edited by Medzomorak

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While those dioramas rarely showed anything that wasn't a set, they still encouraged you to think up your own stories and worlds, in other words, they encouraged you to get creative, to come up with your own ideas, characters etc.

That's not what Lego is about anymore.
Nowadays, everything has to tie in with one franchise or another, or must have an accompanying TV series. Everything needs to have an existing storyline with predefined heroes and bad guys that already have names and a story. They're even starting it in City now, for god's sake. Thus you don't need great dioramas choke-full of details to fuel your imagination. You need a set highlighting a very limited part of an existing plot, and the film/series/comic/whatveer to go along with it to tell you what stories you can play out with it.

Plus, putting together those dioramas propably took several days each, which means you can save some money if you just slap some computer generated images into an already chaotic catalogue design instead (I'm referring to the quadratic store catalogue; the catalogue with the exclusive sets you showed at the very top looks loads better than that one).

 

Edited by RogerSmith

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19 hours ago, Medzomorak said:

So what do you think, which approach was better?

Entirely depends. You could at the very least argue that going too crazy with fancying up your product presentations and showing unrelated content can get you in hot water over misleading advertising. At the same time of course it would be nice to see some models in a different context...

19 hours ago, Medzomorak said:

Is the new simpler design much more marketable?

Pretty much irrelevant. Graphics design changes just like the seasons. A lot of the stuff from the old catalogs just wouldn't "fly" anymore, but that is no indication that today's clean and purist designs are necessarily better, just different. It's all contextual and the zeitgeist and of course generic design trends always figure in.

Other than that I think @Lego David already said it: It's obvious where LEGO are cutting corners. Also unlike in the past of course the release cycle has become more chaotic with some sets only being revealed until the very last minute. That alone would make it difficult to meet deadlines and you have to be careful to keep things relatively straightforward to be able to get quick turnarounds and incorporate changes.

Mylenium

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33 minutes ago, Mylenium said:

Other than that I think @Lego David already said it: It's obvious where LEGO are cutting corners. Also unlike in the past of course the release cycle has become more chaotic with some sets only being revealed until the very last minute. That alone would make it difficult to meet deadlines and you have to be careful to keep things relatively straightforward to be able to get quick turnarounds and incorporate changes.

Mylenium

I personally don't see it as cutting corner, but rather moving their more involved dioramas to other media outside of catalogs.

Product Videos, Books, Theme Magazines , LEGO Club Magazine etc still  have some form of diorama-style layouts  but come out AFTER the sets are on shelves, while catalogs showed sets months in advance.

In the past there was only 1 catalog for a whole year so some themes could take months to hit shelves but were known in advance, now, like you said, there's a lot more secrecy and those copycats might be part of the cause.

Another example of a City mini-movie showing a lot of 2019 City products: Fire, Police, Space, Donut Shop, People Pack etc.

In my opinion, videos like this could be seen as a modern-style replacement of a static diorama, while the catalog was rather showing the individual products instead.

 

Edited by TeriXeri

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29 minutes ago, TeriXeri said:

In my opinion, videos like this could be seen as a modern-style replacement of a static diorama, while the catalog was rather showing the individual products instead

I don't really see how a CG animated series is a replacement for dioramas. They are completely different things. 

Watching a animated series based on LEGO City isn't really going to inspire me to get creative. But looking at a LEGO City diorama will for sure. 

 

1 hour ago, RogerSmith said:

While those dioramas rarely showed anything that wasn't a set, they still encouraged you to think up your own stories and worlds, in other words, they encouraged you to get creative, to come up with your own ideas, characters etc.

That's not what Lego is about anymore.
Nowadays, everything has to tie in with one franchise or another, or must have an accompanying TV series. Everything needs to have an existing storyline with predefined heroes and bad guys that already have names and a story. They're even starting it in City now, for god's sake. Thus you don't need great dioramas choke-full of details to fuel your imagination. You need a set highlighting a very limited part of an existing plot, and the film/series/comic/whatveer to go along with it to tell you what stories you can play out with it.

Plus, putting together those dioramas propably took several days each, which means you can save some money if you just slap some computer generated images into an already chaotic catalogue design instead (I'm referring to the quadratic store catalogue; the catalogue with the exclusive sets you showed at the very top looks loads better than that one).

 

I agree with pretty much everything that was said here. 

Edited by Lego David

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I would say that things have changes so much because the consumer has changed so much.

We look at these diorama presentations with fondness through our own nostalgia, (which, in any subject, we are associating the thing with the security and comfort of being a child with no responsibility or grasp of the wider world around us at the time.) 

Now, there is new advertising philosophy and different laws in play. Not to mention that kids and their focuses have changed so greatly to what we had. 

25 years ago I was only able to find new LEGO sets from what was on offer in the toy shop I maybe got to visit (maybe once or twice a year), or in the Argos book. If I was lucky enough to have had a new set purchased for me, it could have a little advertising sheet inside the box. If I was really lucky, or we were in an honest to goodness LEGO retailer then there would be an official LEGO catalogue to look through and enjoy. 

Now? Kids the same age as I was 25 years ago can look at LEGO online on a whim. They know who to look for on Instagram for the best leaks and probably get someone in their life to follow the official LEGO accounts on social media for brand new product reveals and videos. They have apps and games that feature the current sets in new and interesting ways. A diorama would be impressive in person, but a static image is not as attractive as it once was.

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7 hours ago, Lego David said:

Watching a animated series based on LEGO City isn't really going to inspire me to get creative. But looking at a LEGO City diorama will for sure.

I personally think that after that series is done, because I hear its supposed to be short, they should go back to making all characters unnamed. Unnamed characters are much better as they fuel your imagination more. 

That's how I would've felt as a child. I would've felt pretty obligated to use characters that are already named for you as opposed to having characters you can name yourself. 

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16 hours ago, TeriXeri said:

Product Videos, Books, Theme Magazines , LEGO Club Magazine etc still  have some form of diorama-style layouts  but come out AFTER the sets are on shelves, while catalogs showed sets months in advance.

(...)

In my opinion, videos like this could be seen as a modern-style replacement of a static diorama, while the catalog was rather showing the individual products instead.

I think you're assuming too much (and by extension so perhaps does LEGO). It's a simple matter of people needing to find the time and also being able to find these things in a never-ending stream of media onslaught. I would predict that LEGO's "reach" in those departments is actually terrible. I mean what can you expect? A shoddily produced animated series buried on obscure second-rate TV channels or competing with way better produced content on streaming services isn't going to cut it, if you get my meaning. Same for those tie-in magazines that I regularly review on my blog and on which someone lately is cutting corners, too, like it or not. I could rant on forever, but suffice it to say that the average buyer outside the AFOL-bubble is probably a lot less informed than you seem to presume and that outsourcing content from your core marketing is perhaps not that viable a strategy, at least for some demographics...

Mylenium

9 hours ago, Peppermint_M said:

Now? Kids the same age as I was 25 years ago can look at LEGO online on a whim. They know who to look for on Instagram for the best leaks and probably get someone in their life to follow the official LEGO accounts on social media for brand new product reveals and videos. They have apps and games that feature the current sets in new and interesting ways.

I could counter this argument with a personal anecdote that just happened on Friday. As I was already writing in my reply to @TeriXeri, a lot of people (including social media crazy kids) are a lot less informed and not up to speed on the latest stuff happening in the LEGO universe. Again, it's the AFOL bubble vs. the mundane reality of LEGO as a toy, after all. You could even broaden this argument by how generally unaware people are of some of that stuff when they visit exhibitions or see showcase models presented in a mall. And to add one more argument/ thought: The catalog bins in the shops I visit still empty out quite quickly, leading me to believe that the seasonal LEGO catalogs are still a primary source of information for many potential customers. We could debate this endlessly, but in my not so humble view one must not make the mistake of overrating all this secondary media stuff. Buying decisions are still influenced a lot by actual POS presentation, including the catalogs...

Mylenium

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9 hours ago, Brandon Pea said:

Unnamed characters are much better as they fuel your imagination more.

Generally I agree. Specifically, though, I think the issue with LEGO characters is first and foremost their sameness. In a world where every minifigure is basically identical it will be infinitely hard to distinguish two police officers just by minute differences in their prints. Kids won't go out of their way to memorize those names and just call them whatever they like, anyway.

Mylenium

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1 hour ago, Mylenium said:

Kids won't go out of their way to memorize those names and just call them whatever they like, anyway.

Except......I was one of those kids that would. No lies. 

Matter of fact, all you needed to do was tell me and I'd remember it like that. Let's just say, my IQ was just that high. 

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5 hours ago, Brandon Pea said:

Let's just say, my IQ was just that high. 

Well, I'm sure we could all have a wonderful wank competition about our IQ ratings.... :P *lol*

Mylenium

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15 hours ago, Mylenium said:

 I could rant on forever, but suffice it to say that the average buyer outside the AFOL-bubble is probably a lot less informed than you seem to presume and that outsourcing content from your core marketing is perhaps not that viable a strategy, at least for some demographics...

Nowhere am I saying or assuming that the average kid or parent will know as much about the current and past product lines as a LEGO Focused AFOL.

I can even say that something like the official LEGO youtube is a bit of a mess when it comes to finding product videos, so the average kid/paren't won't look at it the same way as a Catalog.

Hope that clears things up, I mean it well :thumbup: 

 

In my situation before the 2000s, I knew sets just from paper media, and visiting actual (toy)shops, so in that aspect, the internet certainly made it easier to look up actual sets.

I even experienced a period with very little info myself, after 2000 I stopped visiting toy-shops or buying LEGO. 

Took me 16 years to rediscover LEGO in 2016, mostly due to rebuilding old sets (which also were at a different location) and gaining interest again. 

I know how it is to be outside the AFOL bubble, and I do agree about the average buyer being far less informed , marketing could certainly improve a lot still. 

I do notice a lot more regular LEGO shop news e-mails in the past months since the 2nd half of 2019, I guess that's a start.

 

Also catalogs seem to vary per country, in design and layout, US/UK catalogs look completely different from the NL one.

NL just gets those half-year square ones, while US/UK gets them more regularly (Seasonal)

https://www.lego.com/en-us/page/static/catalogues

https://www.lego.com/en-gb/page/static/catalogues

Also the US/UK LEGO.com site have Request Catalog button, while the NL site does not. 

But Catalogs still exist and I'm sure many people still pick them up and read them, however many physical toyshops have closed here. 

But while many other toyshops are closing, LEGO did just open 2 stores in NL however, so at least there they might have gained some more publicity, and soon a LEGOLAND Discovery Centre also is opening.

 

Paper version of the LEGO LIFE magazine (the followup to LEGO Club) also restricted to 5-9 year olds :shrug_confused:

Hope I didn't go too far off-topic here but wanted to clear things up. :thumbup:

 

 

Edited by TeriXeri

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8 hours ago, TeriXeri said:

Also the US/UK LEGO.com site have Request Catalog button, while the NL site does not. 

But Catalogs still exist and I'm sure many people still pick them up and read them, however many physical toyshops have closed here. 

But while many other toyshops are closing, LEGO did just open 2 stores in NL however, so at least there they might have gained some more publicity, and soon a LEGOLAND Discovery Centre also is opening.

 

Paper version of the LEGO LIFE magazine (the followup to LEGO Club) also restricted to 5-9 year olds :shrug_confused:

Hope I didn't go too far off-topic here but wanted to clear things up. :thumbup:

I only have experience with the hungarian situation. Catalogs are still everywhere and while I don't visit stores very often, every time I there I see kids and parents taking one copy with them all the time.

The funny thing is that while I've always hated catalogs for the lack of dioramas my 62 years old parents still grab one every time they magically get there. Even my sister from San Diego brings me US versions since I'm the 'Lego guy' in the family. Never tried to explain to them how bad I have hated catalogs for years as I'm just happy to check out Legos again at that moment. Only to realise again how I miss the vintage style.

Edited by Medzomorak

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@Medzomorak - As others have mentioned, I believe it's down to showing what you actually get clearly, both so not to mislead and to better showcase the product.

However, if you detach the marketing angle from viewing this, then I think the dioramas are just beautiful to look at compared to the boring standard format being used today.

I think there is something to be said about presenting a set in a diorama and the imagination it fuels in kids. This happened to me and is why I still have my old catalogue 30 years later. If that kind of imagi-fuel comes at the expense of less clarity of product detail, then I think it's a price worth paying.

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They could do both you know. 
Top two thirds of the centerfold - Diorama. Gives the ethos for the theme. The inspiration for the buyer.
Bottom third - show the actual sets that make up the diorama in little boxes with set number and piece count. Maybe MSRP as well. You could move this onto the back side and have the centerfold act as a poster.

I'll argue that the dioramas ARE the cause for our  my nostalgia. I spent YEARS of my life looking at the catalogues and posters, dreaming of building the depicted world. IT is what drove me to continually ask for Lego sets. I needed the additional sets to build the world I saw teased in the catalogues. All that yearning left an imprint that I am now, as an adult, fulfilling. I absolutely did not have a good childhood that I yearn for as someone implied. I used lego as escapism and the help that TLG gave towards worldbuilding made the difference. I almost wore out the 6 cassettes of audio dramas they put out!

Edited by Masked Mini

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3 hours ago, leafan said:

@Medzomorak - As others have mentioned, I believe it's down to showing what you actually get clearly, both so not to mislead and to better showcase the product.

However, if you detach the marketing angle from viewing this, then I think the dioramas are just beautiful to look at compared to the boring standard format being used today.

I think there is something to be said about presenting a set in a diorama and the imagination it fuels in kids. This happened to me and is why I still have my old catalogue 30 years later. If that kind of imagi-fuel comes at the expense of less clarity of product detail, then I think it's a price worth paying.

 

3 hours ago, Masked Mini said:

They could do both you know. 
Top two thirds of the centerfold - Diorama. Gives the ethos for the theme. The inspiration for the buyer.
Bottom third - show the actual sets that make up the diorama in little boxes with set number and piece count. Maybe MSRP as well. You could move this onto the back side and have the centerfold act as a poster.


I'll argue that the dioramas ARE the cause for our  my nostalgia. I spent YEARS of my life looking at the catalogues and posters, dreaming of building the depicted world. IT is what drove me to continually ask for Lego sets. I needed the additional sets to build the world I saw teased in the catalogues. All that yearning left an imprint that I am now, as an adult, fulfilling. I absolutely did not have a good childhood that I yearn for as someone implied. I used lego as escapism and the help that TLG gave towards worldbuilding made the difference. I almost wore out the 6 cassettes of audio dramas they put out!

No need to cross our, you are not alone, we all have our own personal memories about them. Happily I had some friends whose religion was also oldshool Lego. I always brought to school my brother's catalog the gaze upon them together. I've lost contact with them many many years ago after I've moved to the capital with my parents. No one liked Legos here, everything was going about hanging out, 'ganging' the streets and being the coolest guy, slowly I got pushed into my dark ages. I remember coming across again old catalogs when I've started university and I dreamt about being a little kid again for many days. Started to collect and create ever since, even my girlfriend tends to sit down and build stuff occasionally. Now that we don't want to be the coolest gangstas on the streets it is much easier to accept that we just love Lego, it is in our very souls.

Also about the diorama idea I agree as well.

Lego has just enough resources today to make a little more heartwarming adveristment with their new sets. A catalog has become truly like a catalog, a brief list of products. Maybe another type of yearly poster album could expand every theme into an oldschool diorama to boost imagination, I'm sure the same effect would chain kids to the company forever as well.

Edited by Medzomorak

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51 minutes ago, Medzomorak said:

Lego has just enough resources today to make a little more heartwarming adveristment with their new sets.

I also find it interesting how they managed to make all those things in the late 90's and early 2000's when they were almost bankrupt, yet they can't do them now, when they are one of the biggest companies in the world. They clearly have the resources necessary, but for some reason, they just don't do it.

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Another reason for the lack of dioramas (and probably the biggest reason of all) is just a lack of space.

There are a lot more sets out each year than there were a few decades ago. Meanwhile, the modern Lego catalogs have been downsized dramatically (probably due to the web shop replacing direct phone orders from the catalog as the primary way to buy sets direct from Lego) and usually don't even contain the full range of sets available anymore. Including large one- to two-page dioramas would cut down even more on the number of sets that could be shown clearly in each catalog, particularly if you wanted to include information like set descriptions as well.

That said, things like those dioramas live on (to a certain extent) in the key art featured in the instruction booklets for themes like Ninjago or Hidden Side. Most years have a piece of key art that, while often illustrated rather than built physically, shows off a wide range of the available sets for that wave in a shared space.

Edited by Lyichir

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28 minutes ago, Lego David said:

when they are one of the biggest companies in the world.

Well, but isn't that a statement in itself? Once you cut out all this crap about a traditional family enterprise they are just like any other big corporation with the same wrong priorities, issues and shortcomings. You could in fact be cynical and almost say that LEGO making a show about their values makes it actually worse. You know, this is where the reality of The LEGO Company as it exists today cannot hold up to the myths and legends of the past. It's like Google's "Don't be evil." thing which hasn't been true for years now.

I also don't even think they actually have the resources. Just like those other companies they've very likely streamlined and economized all their internal processes to a point where anything more would result in a complete breakdown of the whole shebang. I'm pretty sure they have a ton of marketing executives, but only a handful of people doing the actual materials and that is even merely a concession to their secretive process. I'm sure they'd love to outsource the hell out of their marketing if only it didn't complicate their process to a point.

Mylenium

Just now, Lyichir said:

There are a lot more sets out each year than there were a few decades ago. Meanwhile, the modern Lego catalogs have been downsized dramatically (probably due to the web shop replacing direct phone orders from the catalog as the primary way to buy sets direct from Lego) and usually don't even contain the full range of sets available anymore. Including large one- to two-page dioramas would cut down even more on the number of sets that could be shown clearly in each catalog, particularly if you wanted to include information like set descriptions as well.

Yes/ No/ Maybe. You know, printing is dirt cheap, not least of all to digitalization. It's almost not worth thinking about whether you print eighty pages or a hundred. Yes, it may be a consideration, but I don't think it would be any serious hinderance. To me it really boils down to who is actually producing the content, how the products are rolled out and the logistics involved, but not so much that there would be anything technical stopping them from producing more elaborate catalogs. And whether the shop (or for that matter the whole LEGO web site) is actually a functional replacement or extension of the marketing and information policies is anyone's guess, to put it mildly...

Mylenium

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1 hour ago, Mylenium said:

I also don't even think they actually have the resources. Just like those other companies they've very likely streamlined and economized all their internal processes to a point where anything more would result in a complete breakdown of the whole shebang. I'm pretty sure they have a ton of marketing executives, but only a handful of people doing the actual materials and that is even merely a concession to their secretive process. I'm sure they'd love to outsource the hell out of their marketing if only it didn't complicate their process to a point.

Mylenium

Corporations can also be quite waterheaded as the management grows itself but it is very true that Lego has always had a hard time to get along with the changes in the world. This Hidden Side Application stuff is just another example.

Outsourcing is actually not a bad idea if you really have a talented fanatic doing the job. For example Lego animations were always cringey and simply low level in quality, until they've outsourced advertistments to BrotherhoodWorkshop.

All the better stop-motion Lego videos are made by him if you check the official Lego YT channel as well. 

These are 100% better than those digital animation ones. Just like old dioramas compared to new catalogs. Of course all of your arguments about set counts and spacing was true, but I think creating emotions and feelings are more important. But that's just me talking.

I think a similar approach would be profitable for Lego if someone would take the time to create up-to-date dioramas for a hobby until Lego recognizes the potential for some albums or even extended catalogs.

 

Edited by Medzomorak

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