Thack Desteck—Conclusion: Zandder Earns a yeet

[jimmynick]

6 minutes ago, Fugazi said:

So... what did happen on night 1? Did someone block me, or was it something else?

that was me

[Fugazi]

37 minutes ago, jimmynick said:

that was me

Good thing you did! What were the roles scum chose to start with?

[jimmynick]

I was sort of waiting for Hinck to post his breakdown but I guess I'll spill the beans:

CMP and I wanted to keep the town as weak as possible. I asked if we could choose no extra powers but Hinck said we had to do we chose the block. I don't know what you all had to begin with but that meant you ended up with just 3 PRs.

When CMP got pew-pewed, I was restricted to using just one power per night, so I chose to use the kill from then on. Hinck felt bad I didn't recruit KotZ so he interceded on my behalf to give me a one-shot strongarm block, which I used in conjunction with the kill to off Trekkie on Night Five. Sorry, Trekkie .

The Day Three scroll was mine. The base power was to make a role Loud for a night, and the extra power was to make the chosen role able to act twice on the same night. Kristel used the scroll to reveal herself.

I wish Kristel had waited to talk with me before accepting the new win condition, because we would have won together under the parity win condition. I can't blame her for picking what seemed easier to achieve, though.

And on Night Two I tried to kill Tariq J, who was protected by Trekkie. Reading the scroll on Day Three sent me into a frenzy of imagining Tariq J was the investigator, so I targeted him again the following night.

Wait til you all see the memes on the scumboard 

[Pandora]

On 1/18/2020 at 9:45 PM, Kristel said:

Who had the Day 5 scroll?

I did. There was no way I was going to send it to you, because at that point I knew who you were and didn't trust you to work with us at all. I was actually researching ways to get rid of you.

My scroll would have allowed you to talk to a dead player and see their night action results (if any). Foog and I had already pretty much figured he/she, Marwyyn and I were the town PRs, so the only people you could have talked to would have been scum (CMP), and that was not going to happen. I actually think Hinck thought I'd lost my mind, as I was asking if you could use a scroll on yourself (and I was thinking about the unlynch scroll I knew you had but I didn't want to outright say it) but Hinck seemed to think I was talking about my scroll, which would understandably sound crazy. I was trying to make sure you couldn't unlynch yourself, which you couldn't, but then Zandder went and deliberately gave himself a penalty to save you, because you could unlynch him.

 

16 hours ago, jimmynick said:

CMP and I wanted to keep the town as weak as possible.

Foog and I had a good chat about how highly "specced" the scum team would be. I think you had a sound strategy to keep it simple, and keep us weak.

Also, I hope you'll notice that after you mentioned it, I actually did start spelling your name right.  

[fhomess]

Hey... sorry I haven't been around lately... but I did get a chance to read through the day threads today.

Really well played by Kristel and James.  I was quite pleased to be out of this one on night 1, as I had a bunch of things going on outside of the game, so thanks for that, I guess!

Hinck.. loved the set pieces, and really appreciated the experiment with the traveler as well as the game starting process... semi-open with player choice involved.  I think that sort of experimentation keeps it fresh and interesting.

[Hinckley]

OK, I'm home. @CMP @jimmynick @KotZ @Kristel @Fugazi @Trekkie99 @Pandora @Chromeknight @Darkdragon @Bob @fhomess @Tariq j @mostlytechnic

Scum Role PMs

On 12/12/2019 at 3:16 PM, Hinckley said:

Player: CMP

Character: Coralaaze

Alignment: Gorgon (Scum)

Role: You may choose whether you or your partner uses the factional kill. The kill is non-compulsory, you can choose to not kill. Your Scum partner is Zandder. There is a Traitor that may be recalled. Please see the writeboard for more information.

Win Condition: You win when all of the Oceanides (Town) are dead, or nothing can prevent this from happening.

writeboard: https://123.writeboard.com/kvimf76qtifk9uztefh50h1l

password: zpT!ruf1

Please do not reveal your true identity to your Scum team. Thank you!

 

 

On 12/12/2019 at 3:18 PM, Hinckley said:

Player: jimmynick

Character: Zandder

Alignment: Gorgon (Scum)

Role: You may choose whether you or your partner uses the factional kill. The kill is non-compulsory, you can choose to not kill. Your Scum partner is Coralaaze. There is a Traitor that may be recalled. Please see the writeboard for more information.

Win Condition: You win when all of the Oceanides (Town) are dead, or nothing can prevent this from happening.

writeboard: https://123.writeboard.com/kvimf76qtifk9uztefh50h1l

password: zpT!ruf1

Please do not reveal your true identity to your Scum team. Thank you!

 

 

(Traitor)

On 12/12/2019 at 3:19 PM, Hinckley said:

Player: KotZ

Character: Nerrio

Alignment: Gorgon (Scum)

Role: Traitor. You don’t know who your Scum partners are yet. Until you are recalled, you are armed with a one-shot bulletproof vest. If the Scum try to kill you, you will survive and be recalled. If your partners choose the ability to recall you, you will be introduced to them when they choose to use it. If you are not recalled and they are both killed, you will receive the factional kill and be allowed to continue to achieve your win condition.

Investigative Immunity: If investigated you will appear as “Not Gorgon” until you are recalled. After that point, you will investigate as “Gorgon.”

Win Condition: You win when all of the Oceanides (Town) are dead, or nothing can prevent this from happening.

 

PR Town Role PMs

On 12/12/2019 at 3:31 PM, Hinckley said:

Player: Fugazi

Character: Araveea

Alignment: Oceanide (Town)

Role: Investigator. Each night, you can target one player and, if successful, you will see their alignment. The results will be given as "Gorgon" or "Not Gorgon." If you target the Traitor before the Traitor is recalled, you will receive a result of "Not Gorgon."

Win Condition: You win when all of the Gorgons (Scum) are eliminated.

 

 

On 12/12/2019 at 3:27 PM, Hinckley said:

Player: Trekkie99

Character: Marwyyn

Alignment: Oceanide (Town)

Role: Protector. Each night you may target one player and, if successful, that player will be immune from the Night Kill, unless the Kill is modified with a Strongarm.

Win Condition: You win when all of the Gorgons (Scum) are eliminated.

 

 

On 12/12/2019 at 3:36 PM, Hinckley said:

Player: Pandora

Character: Nancy

Alignment: Oceanide (Town)

Role: Inventor. Each night you may target one player and, if successful, that player will receive a one-shot Action of your choosing. In your inventory is (3x) one-shot blocker, (3x) one-shot tracker, (1x) one-shot PGO.

Win Condition: You win when all of the Gorgons (Scum) are eliminated.

 

 

Non-PR Town Role PMs

On 12/12/2019 at 3:34 PM, Hinckley said:

Player: Chromeknight

Character: Cadd

Alignment: Oceanide (Town)

Role: Vanilla. You have no ability. Your power is in your vote! Use it wisely.

Win Condition: You win when all of the Gorgons (Scum) are eliminated.

 

 

On 12/12/2019 at 3:35 PM, Hinckley said:

Player: Darkdragon

Character: Eeyara

Alignment: Oceanide (Town)

Role: Vanilla. You have no ability. Your power is in your vote! Use it wisely.

Win Condition: You win when all of the Gorgons (Scum) are eliminated.

 

 

On 12/12/2019 at 3:37 PM, Hinckley said:

Player: Tariq J

Character: Mazziko

Alignment: Oceanide (Town)

Role: Vanilla. You have no ability. Your power is in your vote! Use it wisely.

Win Condition: You win when all of the Gorgons (Scum) are eliminated.

 

 

On 12/12/2019 at 3:32 PM, Hinckley said:

Player: fhomess

Character: Ronnan

Alignment: Oceanide (Town)

Role: Vanilla. You have no ability. Your power is in your vote! Use it wisely.

Win Condition: You win when all of the Gorgons (Scum) are eliminated.

 

 

On 12/12/2019 at 3:30 PM, Hinckley said:

Player: mostlytechnic

Character: Scabowee-wah

Alignment: Oceanide (Town)

Role: Vanilla. You have no ability. Your power is in your vote! Use it wisely.

Win Condition: You win when all of the Gorgons (Scum) are eliminated.

 

 

On 12/12/2019 at 3:29 PM, Hinckley said:

Player: Bob

Character: Tameekys

Alignment: Oceanide (Town)

Role: Vanilla. You have no ability. Your power is in your vote! Use it wisely.

Win Condition: You win when all of the Gorgons (Scum) are eliminated.

 

Traveler Role PM

On 12/12/2019 at 3:40 PM, Hinckley said:

Player: Kristel

Character: Luxxon

Alignment: Traveler (Neutral)

Role: You are a Traveler. You will receive abilities via the other players by the game mechanic of scrolls. They will receive a scroll and decide if they want to pass it along to you. Each scroll will contain an ability you can use once (one-shots). You will receive one scroll from the host on Night Zero. On subsequent nights, you will be given the ability to steal a scroll from someone who has received one and not passed it on to you. You will have a 50% chance of pilfering a scroll from another player.

Win Condition: You win if, at any time, you are alive while there is parity between the Oceanides (Town) and the Gorgons (Scum). After that point, you can choose a side to benefit with your abilities. After that point, whichever side wins or if you are lynched or night-killed, you will still be a winner of the game.

Bulletproof: You are additionally bulletproof one time for each faction. If you are targeted for a Night Kill, the kill will be unsuccessful, but your role will be revealed to the would-be killer. After you are revealed to the killer, you are vulnerable to their Action. If, for example, you are targeted by the Town Vigilante, you will be revealed to them and vulnerable to their kill, but still bulletproof to the Scum killer, and vice-versa.

 

Night Actions

Night Zero

Scum chooses Blocker
Town gets Inventor in addition to Investigator and Protector.
Traveler receives first scroll from the host: "Traveler can target one player, that player will be given the option to reveal their role to the traveler. This will also result in the traveler being revealed to the targeted player."

Day One

Cadd receives the first scroll and decides to give it to The Traveler: "Traveler can protect another player. If you choose to give the Traveler the scroll, they will have the option to choose two one-shot Protector Actions if they reveal their identity to you." The Traveler must choose if they want one or two before using a one-shot protection.

Night One

Scum
Coralaaze (CMP) kills Ronnan (fhomess) Successful
Zandder (jimmynick) blocks Araveea (Fugazi) Successful – Araveea is unable to investigate Zandder

Town
Araveea (Fugazi) investigates Zandder (jimmynick) Unsuccessful – blocked by Zandder
Marwyyn (Trekkie99) protects Nerrio (KotZ) Successful – has no effect
Nancy (Pandora) gives one-shot Tracker invention to Coralaaze (CMP) Successful

Notes: Night One goes extremely well for the Scum and makes it looks like they could walk away with the game. But, it's early. Araveea nails Zandder with the first investigation but she is blocked. Marwynn is protecting the Traitor and Coralaaze is on her way to being part of the foundation of the Town Block by receiving an invention from Nancy. I, of course, am wondering how all of this happened so quickly and wonder what can be happening behind the scenes. 

Day Two

Eeyara receives the second scroll and gives it to The Traveler: "The traveler can choose one player to be immune from votes for one Day. The Traveler must choose the target during the Day of their choice and the immunity will not be revealed until the following Day."

Notes: Fun fact. Technically, this reads that the one player was immune from voting. Had it been followed the way it was written, Luxxon (Kristel) would have technically lynched herself. Since I also misread my own mechanic with the Day Three scroll, this doesn't end up mattering, which I'll explain below.

Night Two

Scum

Zandder (jimmynick) blocks Cadd (ChromeKnight) Successful – has no effect
Coralaaze (CMP) kills Mazziko (Tariq J) Unsuccessful – Mazziko protected by Marwyyn

Town
Araveea (Fugazi) investigates Coralaaze (CMP) Successful – Coralaaze is Gorgon
Marwyyn (Trekkie99) protects Mazziko (Tariq J) Successful – Coralaaze is unable to kill Mazziko
Nancy (Pandora) gives a one-shot Blocker invention to Tameekys (Bob) Successful

Notes: This is an incredibly unlucky night for the Scum. Their kill doesn't succeed and they are investigated for, technically, the second night in a row, this time successfully. Also, nobody has been lynched so they are behind in meeting their win condition.

Day Three

Zandder gets the third scroll and gives it to The Traveler: "The traveler can target a role to make it Loud for one night, The Loud modifier reveals to the player’s target that they’ve been targeted by that player, but not which Action was used. The Traveler can choose to additionally have a Double modifier, but only if they reveal their identity to the person who gives them the scroll. The Double modifier allows the Traveler to target a role and let that role be performed twice for one night."

Notes: Fun fact on this scroll, too. I worded it to give the power of the double-shot to The Traveler. But then, because I'm not paying 100% attention to my own game and complicated mechanics, I tell Zandder (jimmynick) (when Luxxon (Kristel) uses it on Day Five) that he gets a double-shot modifier he can use when he wants. That's not how it's worded. The Traveler was supposed to have the power to make this happen when she chose. Had she been given that power on the Night she chose, she would've won that night. Fun fact 2: if Luxxon had been lynched on Day Six, I would've given her the win since I screwed up my own complicated mechanic.

Traveler
Uses "Loud Investigation" scroll on Marwyyn (Trekkie99). Marwynn is Oceanide. Marwyyn learns that Luxxon (Kristel) is The Traveler.

Notes: What is going on with the Town's voting? I'm ready to punch somebody. It isn't until 2/3 of the way through Day Three that I decide to change the rule for lynching. Even though I know full well that there's a Scum reading from the Investigator, I'm not sure it's going to be revealed as Araveea indicates she doesn't fully trust me and doesn't seem to have any buddies in the Town yet. In the mean time, the Town is still not reaching a lynch, nor do they seem interested in doing so. The Scum is already behind the 8-ball which will put The Traveler behind as well. It does appear to me to be intentional, by some, to stop lynched from happening. I will be hard-pressed to change it back to majority lynch in any game going forward. Lynches have to happen for the game mechanics to work. I think I may even have a rule for ties where the first person to reach the most votes would be the one lynched, not sure yet, but the point is, this greatly annoyed me. In the end, Araveea was able to discern that Coralaaze had been going hard after Eeyara (Darkdragon) and knowing Coralaaze was Scum, took the risk that it wasn't an attempt to keep distance and revealed the investigation result to Eeyara. This also, somehow, got Araveea off the Scum's list of possible investigators. Furthermore, on Day Three, Coralaaze decides it's not worth it to try to reach the Traitor, because they wouldn't be able to believe who might claim (although the only way to test it would be to kill that person, so why not? For that not to be a win-win, somebody claiming Traitor would have to be someone who would know they'd be protected...hindsight...) but decides to try to contact The Traveler instead. Coralaaze does so by telling The Traveler to do the second part of the Day's Scroll. The Traveler is told each day who gives them the scroll, so Luxxon (Kristel) immediately discerns that Zandder is also Scum. And finally, the last thing that was unlucky for the Scum was that without a kill, the Town has a strong feeling the Traitor has been converted and has less reason to question investigation results...although, they eventually do so anyway. This was a busy day. Luxxon (Kristel) is starting to realize that in order to reach her win condition, she has to help the Scum, or at least contact them. They didn't want to give her the scroll at first and don't trust her...until they get caught by the investigator and decide they need to in order to have a chance at turning things around. Luxxon (Kristel), however, thinks that Marwyyn (Trekkie 99) is Scum and uses the (modified) Loud Investigator scroll on Marwyyn and finds herself connected to the Town protector. No offense to Trekkie, but Marwyyn is the biggest blabbermouth of the game (which often works in Town's favor, so not knocking it). So, it's an unlucky day for The Traveler as well as she is trying to contact the Scum but inadvertently contacts The Town. Last bit of bad fortune for the Scum is that Coralaaze decides to out the Inventor, Nancy (Pandora). This practically gave the Town a free investigation and verifies the most effective Inventor I've seen in a game. I love the Inventor role but I was nervous that it swayed the game towards the Town. Part of that was the great play of Nancy (Pandora) and part of that was the Scum's own fault by carelessly verifying her for the Town and solidifying trust for the Town block. Busy, busy day for the host. Note for future hosts: If you want to try something new, put yourself in the shoes of the players it is effecting and try to be ready for every question they will ask. I thought I had done this, but I hadn't.

Night Three

Scum
Zandder (jimmynick) kills Mazziko (Tariq J) Successful

Town
Araveea (Fugazi) investigates Cadd (Chromeknight) Successful – Cadd is Not Gorgon
Marwyyn (Trekkie99) protects Eeyara (DarkDragon) Successful – no effect
Nancy (Pandora) gives one-shot Tracker invention to Araveea (Fugazi) Successful
Tameekys (Bob) blocks Cadd (Chromeknight) Successful – no effect

Notes: This is when it becomes clear how far the balance has swung towards the Town. The Scum didn't choose the Recall Traitor Action and now one of the original two is gone, leaving one on their own and a Traitor who can't do anything except be investigation immune. All of the Town Power Roles are still in play and Zandder (jimmynick) has no ability to stop any of them. The Town is quickly organizing and The Inventor, Nancy (Pandora), is free to arm the Town with powerful Actions. I realize at this point that maybe I should've chosen a balanced role to the Scum's Blocker instead of randomly drawing the role. Fun fact, I accidentally grabbed two roles out of the cup and went with the one on top, The Inventor. The one stuck to it? Bomb.

Day Four

Araveea (Fugazi) gets the fourth scroll and gives it to The Traveler: "Traveler can watch another player. If you choose to give the Traveler the scroll, they will have the option to choose two one-shot Watcher Actions if they reveal their identity to you." Once agan, The Traveler has to choose if they want one-shot or two-shot before they are able to use the Watcher Action.

Traveler
Luxxon (Kristel) reveals herself to Araveea (Fugazi) and receives two one-shot Watcher Actions.

Notes: Poor Nerrio (KotZ). Poor Zandder (jimmynick). The Traitor, Nerrio (KotZ) chose the tactic of "act Scummy" to attract the Scum's attention and get recruited. This drew more of the Town's attention than the Scum's. The Scum were actually vocally hoping that Nerrio was not the Traitor. He was also not on their list of possible Traitor. A good tactic for the Traitor is to attempt to gain the Town's trust before they're recruited. Try to get investigated so the "Not Gorgon" result will come up and worm your way into the Town block. The Investigator may try to verify people they want to trust, so jump out in front and make yourself worthy of investigation. Added bonus, if you're looking like a Town leader, the Scum may try to kill you. And then problem solved, you're in the Scum team and can use an Action.

Night Four

Scum
Zandder (jimmynick) kills Scabowee-wah (mostlytechnic) Successful

Town
Araveea (Fugazi) investigatoes Scabowee-wah (mostlytechnic) Successful – Not Gorgon
Marwyyn protects Nancy (Pandora) Successful – no effect
Nancy (Pandora) gives a one-shot Blocker invention to Marwyyn (Trekkie99) successful

Traveler
Luxxon (Kristel) watches Marwyyn (Trekkie99) Successful – Marwyyn is targeted by Nancy

Day Five

Nancy gets the fifth scroll and does not give it to The Traveler: "The Traveler can communicate with one dead player and ask if that person had a role. If they did, the traveler can see their Night Action results."

Notes: The Traveler is offered a new win condition, if she chooses to take it. Instead of needing to achieve parity, she must now get it down to 3 Town–1 Scum–Traveler. She chooses this as her new win condition with the caveat that once she achieves it, she leaves the game. She's sitting on a mountain of Powers at this point and can bury either side she chooses once theI am not a fan of how this Town votes. We almost don't get a lynch...again. Seriously, what the fuck is with how this Town voted?? I would love to know what happened behind the scenes during this Day because about 5 different people could've potentially been lynched. At the very end of the Day they focus on Zandder, which would be game over and probably should've been at that point. Everybody seems to know who everybody is and the Town win is inevitable. This is where it seems, to me, that The Traveler is overpowered. However, it is also playing out exactly the way I intended. The Traveler was something new and different, yes, but had to keep a fair balance and work with the mechanics between the Town and the Scum. So the entire purpose was to keep a balance. It didn't happen the way I imagined, but what ever does? But she did use the tools she was given to swing the balance back from the Town and towards the Scum. At this point in the game, it was necessary to have her leave the game once the ratio was at 3:1:1 because then she could force a Scum win by mechanics technicality. The Town would've done it's job of discerning the final Scum but then unable to do anything about it and that is a bust to general fairness. Having an un-lynch and double kill all in one Night was all of the tools used at once because Luxxon (Kristel) is a conservative player who was meticulous in lining up her win and then setting it in motion only once she knew it couldn't be undone. This came as a shock and frustration to the Town. The game would've progressed differently had the powers been used by The Traveler earlier. I take full responsibility for setting it up in a way that the Town knew what she was capable of. I thought this was a good way to keep balance, having the players know what powers were going to The Traveler. She had the ability to steal scrolls if they weren't given. She had to guess who had them and then had a 50/50 chance to obtain it. She tried to steal the Day Five scroll but targeted Tameekys. She did steal the Day Six scroll but it didn't matter because she left the game. As it ultimately turns out, this role was an uphill struggle in this case. With the power of the Town building trust and creating a vast network of info behind the scenes, there wasn't much opportunity for stealth. I wonder how people feel about the use of day and night communication for the Townies. I did my first no-PM game with The Forest III and I know Chromeknight hated it. So, I didn't deny the PM ability this time. However, I'm considering doing it again in the future. Had a Scum team member made it into the Town block this wouldn't been a very different game, so I think it is either hit or miss if the behind the scenes PM-in is going to sway the balance between Town or Scum, but does that swing have a wild aspect to it? Again, all of the setups on mafiascum.net are put together with no communication between Town members, unless by Messenger or Masons, and the Scum can only communicate during the Night phase. I think the way we typically allow outside communication may benefit the Town. I continue to struggle with the idea of how to handle it when setting the game up. Maybe the Town will be allowed to communicate at Night only, and only if they lynch. As for a conclusion on the Traveler, I will definitely use it again and learn from the feedback and the experience I had watching. I have a new idea... Luxxon (Kristel) was having internet issues this Day. I was on the phone for family emergency so I missed the close of the Day, but got online just as Kristel was asking if she could still vote. It was still open anyway and I knew she intended to vote, so I allowed it. I would do the same for anyone in the same situation.

Night Five

Scum
Zandder (jimmynick) kills Marwyyn (Trekkie99) Successful
Zandder (jimmynick) strongman blacks Marwyyn (Trekkie99) Successful

Town
Araveea (Fugazi) investigates Tameekys (Trekkie99) Successful – Not Gorgon
Marwyyn (Trekkie99) protects Tameekys (Bob) Unsuccessful – blocked by Zandder
Marwyyn (Trekkie99) blocks Zandder (jimmynick) Unsusccessful – blocked by Zandder
Nancy (Pandora) gives one-shot PGO invention to Marwyyn (Trekkie99) Unsuccessful – Marwyyn is dead

Notes: On Night Five, I gave Zandder a one-shot Strongman Block. I had told Chromeknight (I thought I posted it in the sign-up thread) that the final Scum would not be given a block and kill, since it's apparently a huge controversy now. However, Zandder had such bad luck and there were all sorts of inventions and scrolls floating around out there I gave him a block. I should've given him a Strongman modifier for his kill but I was over/under-thinking it. This works out for Zandder as he was blocked by Marwyyn, of course, and had he just had a regular block neither one of them would've done anything and the Night would've been kill-less and the Day would've most likely ended on Day Six (which it probably should have). By then, the Town had Zandder in its cross-hairs and the Night Actions were lined up to test Tameekys (Bob) [and also protect him??] and Zandder (jimmynick) and the Town had definitely done its due diligence. But Zandder had The Traveler and the Strongman block up his sleeve. At this point, the Traveler is just prolonging the inevitable, so while I'm happy the balance was kept, it also just ended up delaying the inevitable, resulting in the dull Day Seven where the Town quickly reached the right conclusion. Araveea (Fugazi) tells me he wants to investigate Tameekys (Bob) even though Marwyyn (Trekkie99) is protecting him and I'm really wishing I could see what the Town is up to.

Day Six

The sixth scroll is given to Tameekys (Bob) who also does not give it to The Traveler: "The Traveler can target a player, and if they have a Night Action, the Traveler will take it and use it that Night instead of the target."

Traveler
Luxxon (Kristel) uses Un-lynch (Vote Immunity) scroll on Zandder (jimmynick)

Notes: Hooray for the host reading his own mechanics (the scrolls) incorrectly. I'm slightly regretting hosting with all of the fuck-ups I've achieved. Tameekys (Bob) announces he has the scroll so it will be easy for The Traveler to know who to target for stealing it. Again, the lynch wagon is turned around halfway through the day. They want to kill The Traveler because she confuses them. Fine. I will leave it up to jimmynick to explain what was going on with him as far as any intentional rule-breaking to get penalty votes. I vaguely remember, in a past game with more passionate players, the walls crumbling down over somebody doing the same thing. Maybe when I was hosting? I didn't think much of this happening and that is partly because I was distracted and partly because somewhere buried deep in my brain, I really wanted the game to at least appear balanced. But, I think the tactic is underhanded, yet valid. In the end, after he voted for himself, I think it only served to put a bullseye on him. A tied vote would've given him further assurance he could get to the end by using the un-lynch on Day Seven, but then I bet people would've raised a stink over the lynch on Day Six with the penalties and self-vote. Then my game may have become an utter mess. It was really on the brink of that the whole time! Sorry!

Night Six

Scum
Zandder (jimmynick) kills Nancy (Pandora) Successful
Zandder (jimmynick) kills Eeyara (Darkdragon) Successful

Town
Araveea (Fugazi) investigates Eeyara (Darkdragon) Successful – Not Gorgon
Nancy (Pandora) gives one-shot PGO invention to Araveea (Fugazi) Successful

Notes: I have to be quick because I've been typing this for two days, on and off and the husband just got home with dinner. The Inventor has an interesting spot in the Night Action hierarchy. It happens last if her recipient is dead, but first if she's killed. So there. Interestingly, if The Traveler had been left in the game and they lynched Tameekys (Bob), and Zandder (jimmynick) targeted Araveea (Fugazi), Araveea would've survived with the PGO killing Zandder. I was impressed that Zandder stuck it out and tried to convince them he was Town and also with Tameekys (Bob) for handling the Adam-in-Ragnarok-3 role with a hilarious speech, and also congratulations for surviving and winning, a true rarity for you!

I will have specific notes for each player and I'll reformat this so it's pretty. But I have to post it before I lose more productivity and family time here. Thanks for the great game, everybody! I really appreciate everyone digging in and playing their roles so well. Want to play another in 2 weeks?

 

 

[KotZ]

You had my play spot on. I figured act scummy, to get the recruit, but if I acted scummy, I'd be investigated and seen as town early. I tried to play both sides so I would always come out on top (spoiler alert, I lost).

[jimmynick]

Thanks for posting all your notes! Where's the deadboard?

59 minutes ago, Hinckley said:

I will leave it up to jimmynick to explain what was going on with him as far as any intentional rule-breaking to get penalty votes.

In retrospect I shouldn't have done it and just forced a tie at the end, but I couldn't count on DD not switching her vote to Kristel from me.

Perhaps in future a host can reserve the right not to assess penalty votes for rule violations if they're committed as cynically as my edited post.

[Hinckley]

dead writeboard: https://123.writeboard.com/kxjfix8ddvxgq3miezefiz40

password: youredEd!

[jimmynick]

On 1/20/2020 at 7:39 AM, Pandora said:

Also, I hope you'll notice that after you mentioned it, I actually did start spelling your name right.  

Yes, you did

3 hours ago, fhomess said:

Really well played by Kristel and James. 

Thanks fhomess! Unfortunately my strategy of flying under the radar doesn't really work for seven days in a row

1 hour ago, Hinckley said:

I was impressed that Zandder stuck it out and tried to convince them he was Town

Well, what else was there to do? And it gave me a chance to recycle the "you're Tammo in Day Five of Belville Mafia" spiel as related to me by def in Pirates Mafia, when we were also down to three on the last day.

[Hinckley]

19 minutes ago, KotZ said:

You had my play spot on. I figured act scummy, to get the recruit, but if I acted scummy, I'd be investigated and seen as town early. I tried to play both sides so I would always come out on top (spoiler alert, I lost).

No. It's much more clever than I were giving you credit for. I didn't pick up that the Scummy act was to get investigated. I thought you were trying to attract the Scum's attention. You mentioned "traitor" in almost every post. I would advise Scum to never choose to act Scummy, but that is a smart move. I actually picked up on your Scum act and mentioning traitor and thought it was a good plan, until I saw how the Town reacted to you and, you know, lynched you.

[KotZ]

14 minutes ago, Hinckley said:

No. It's much more clever than I were giving you credit for. I didn't pick up that the Scummy act was to get investigated. I thought you were trying to attract the Scum's attention. You mentioned "traitor" in almost every post. I would advise Scum to never choose to act Scummy, but that is a smart move. I actually picked up on your Scum act and mentioning traitor and thought it was a good plan, until I saw how the Town reacted to you and, you know, lynched you.

Well you should have picked up on my scum act, you gave me the role!

But in all seriousness, I figured it could work. My thoughts were best case would be get investigated, found town, then be converted and be in the clear; if not that, be converted at some point if not investigated and bring scum to the full three; if that failed, wait out the other scum to take the mantle of the only scum left and go after the town; the least desirable option was act scummy to draw attention away from the other scum so the town focused on me and not the other two in communication.

[Kristel]

On 1/17/2020 at 12:14 PM, Fugazi said:

Luxxon you were great, you definitely played your duplicitous role perfectly, can't wait to hear what your win condition really was!

6 hours ago, fhomess said:

Really well played by Kristel and James. 

Thank you!

 

On 1/19/2020 at 1:07 PM, Cadd said:

Funnily I didn’t pick you, even though time zones should have been a give away. 

I was doing my best to post as if I was in a North America timezone!

@jimmynick, it was 6 hours because I was fast asleep - the time stamp on your PM was 12.06AM!  I actually thought you were on to me when, at some point, you asked me whether I needed to sleep before putting my vote in.

 

4 hours ago, Hinckley said:

Eeyara receives the second scroll and gives it to The Traveler: "The traveler can choose one player to be immune from votes for one Day. The Traveler must choose the target during the Day of their choice and the immunity will not be revealed until the following Day."

Notes: Fun fact. Technically, this reads that the one player was immune from voting. Had it been followed the way it was written, Luxxon (Kristel) would have technically lynched herself. Since I also misread my own mechanic with the Day Three scroll, this doesn't end up mattering, which I'll explain below.

Oh, that could have backfired on me big time.  Never occurred to me that the player with the next most votes would have been lynched.  

 

4 hours ago, Hinckley said:

Zandder gets the third scroll and gives it to The Traveler: "The traveler can target a role to make it Loud for one night, The Loud modifier reveals to the player’s target that they’ve been targeted by that player, but not which Action was used. The Traveler can choose to additionally have a Double modifier, but only if they reveal their identity to the person who gives them the scroll. The Double modifier allows the Traveler to target a role and let that role be performed twice for one night."

Notes: Fun fact on this scroll, too. I worded it to give the power of the double-shot to The Traveler. But then, because I'm not paying 100% attention to my own game and complicated mechanics, I tell Zandder (jimmynick) (when Luxxon (Kristel) uses it on Day Five) that he gets a double-shot modifier he can use when he wants. That's not how it's worded. The Traveler was supposed to have the power to make this happen when she chose. Had she been given that power on the Night she chose, she would've won that night. Fun fact 2: if Luxxon had been lynched on Day Six, I would've given her the win since I screwed up my own complicated mechanic.

And I wanted Zandder to do the double on Night 5, but didn't push him in case he thought something was up!

 

4 hours ago, Hinckley said:

I wonder how people feel about the use of day and night communication for the Townies. I did my first no-PM game with The Forest III and I know Chromeknight hated it. So, I didn't deny the PM ability this time. However, I'm considering doing it again in the future. Had a Scum team member made it into the Town block this wouldn't been a very different game, so I think it is either hit or miss if the behind the scenes PM-in is going to sway the balance between Town or Scum, but does that swing have a wild aspect to it? Again, all of the setups on mafiascum.net are put together with no communication between Town members, unless by Messenger or Masons, and the Scum can only communicate during the Night phase. I think the way we typically allow outside communication may benefit the Town. I continue to struggle with the idea of how to handle it when setting the game up. Maybe the Town will be allowed to communicate at Night only, and only if they lynch. As for a conclusion on the Traveler, I will definitely use it again and learn from the feedback and the experience I had watching.

I'm generally quite happy not to PM, but it would make the town game a lot harder and the Traveller role would have been very difficult without PMs!  As you pointed out, the balance doesn't necessarily sway to town where PMs are allowed.  Definitely need to use the Traveler role again.

 

4 hours ago, Hinckley said:

Want to play another in 2 weeks?

Sure!  But I will be asking for a re-draw if the Traveler roles falls my way again in the next game!  I need to breathe for a while.

[Trekkie99]

Luxxon voted for Nerrio after saying she thought the person who gave her the day three scroll was scum because coralazze knew about the scroll, so when Nerrio flipped scum, it made me he heavily trust her to be on town's side since presumably she voted for Nerrio because he was the mentioned day three scroll giver that she thought was scum. I also assumed Nerrio was the second scum or a recalled traitor. Now realizing that none of that was what I thought it was, things would have gone differently if Luxxon voted for or maybe even helped town lynch a townie.

[Fugazi]

Wow, thanks for the extensive recap with all the crunchy details, Hinck! I'm working long hours these days so I won't have time for a long post until tomorrow night but it's nice to read more about what was going on behind the scenes and what people were thinking.

Me investigating Tameekys while Marwyyn was protecting him was just a bit of lack of coordination on our part. Marwyyn used to send in his actions right away, and if we had a different plan we would ask him to switch his target and protect someone else. That night I just didn't have the time, it was sloppy of me but I just let it go. Like the day we allowed Zandder to lynch himself while Eeyara kept her vote on him. In the end, it served us well because a no-lynch would have sunk Town. But we should have been able to lynch Luxxon instead.

Oh and there's one night action missing there: on night 4, I tracked Marwyyn using an invention.

Because the Town block had been built not on investigation results but basically on blind trust, by day 4 we had to double back and solidify our bases, because paranoia was starting to get at us. At me, anyway! Up until almost the very end I couldn't bring myself to fully trust Nancy or Eeyara, expecting something bad to happen, even though they were the two people I had claimed to right after I investigated Coralaaze! Eeyara was busy/unwell and couldn't reply to my PMs quickly enough, and I had to choose a second confidante just in case Eeyara turned out to be Scum/Traitor after all.

[Chromeknight]

Because I didn’t know Araveea was the investigator (and I wasn’t going to ask straight out) I was concerned that she might have been an investigated traitor who had them been told Coralaaze was scum and was reticent in publishing that info. 
Admittedly that was very unlikely, but it did mean I didn’t trust her. If I had, the arguments against Zander on the day I was lynched would have been stronger. 

[Bob]

I was acting extremely paranoid towards the end because I've been burned very hard in mafia before. Ever since Noir Mafia, which was like ten years ago. 

[mostlytechnic]

Wow, that's a ton going on behind the scenes.

My take - very fun game, but I wasn't a fan of the scrolls/traveler bit. I was vanilla, and I'm not a big PM user, so to me, that was just another thing that other people were doing that made my role less important. It was super powerful, but since I never had a scroll I didn't have enough information to even start thinking about what it COULD be doing, and it caused so much extra stuff happening it made analysis of anything impossible. I mean, how do you figure out who is doing what with so many 1-shot things happening? Since I was never in the block and actually, didn't have a single PM with anyone, I was in the dark about all of it. 

Sorry (sort of) to have messed up your plans with my no-lynch pushing, but I honestly saw that as the best route for the town. In a small game, I didn't want to start losing people (especially potential PRs) due to crappy early voting, since there's nothing to base it on. I was deliberately slowing down the death rate to give the PRs more time to do their thing. 

I personally think the games here have gotten overly dependent on the town forming a block and then how good/lucky they are decides the win/lose, while the vanillas who aren't in the block are nearly irrelevant. This setup with scrolls just made that even more so. I like the idea of no PM games, or at least night-only for the town, to reduce that. I feel like most vanillas, myself included, just sit back and wait for others to take the lead and then follow their votes, as opposed to actually using the votes as the primary information source like it's claimed to be. 

[Pandora]

14 hours ago, Fugazi said:

Because the Town block had been built not on investigation results but basically on blind trust, by day 4 we had to double back and solidify our bases, because paranoia was starting to get at us. At me, anyway! Up until almost the very end I couldn't bring myself to fully trust Nancy or Eeyara, expecting something bad to happen, even though they were the two people I had claimed to right after I investigated Coralaaze! Eeyara was busy/unwell and couldn't reply to my PMs quickly enough, and I had to choose a second confidante just in case Eeyara turned out to be Scum/Traitor after all.

In retrospect it was kind of hilarious you asking me to make the investigation result public. I mean, it was luck good or bad that I had already given an invention to the very scum you'd investigated, and it took me a while to work out how genuine you were. My first suggestion - that you get Eeyara to report it - well, you'd already done that, and nothing had happened. Your frustration in each message was palpable, but I was screaming at my screen "I don't want to do it cos I'm the damned inventor and it looks like I've just given an invention to scum and if they now think I'm in contact with the bloody investigator as well, then I'll be deader than a dead thing from deadsville!" And I didn't want to claim to you because you really could have been playing me, there was too much coincidence, and your replies were notably astute. Which made for a fabulous foundation for trust and cooperation throughout the game!  

 

CMP had basically asked me "why are you giving me this, don't you think I might be scum?" after I told him I gave him the tracker, to which I had essentially said "so what? It's a one shot tracking action, and it'll make something happen and you seem town to me right now". I didn't really get keen, cooperative townie vibes after he told me he tracked Chromeknight, so I'm not convinced he would have been part of the town block if he hadn't been investigated. Our conversation had stalled way before that all happened. That's not to say you didn't play well CMP, please don't misunderstand me, as I clearly think you did because I gave you an invention! 

 

4 hours ago, mostlytechnic said:

I personally think the games here have gotten overly dependent on the town forming a block and then how good/lucky they are decides the win/lose, while the vanillas who aren't in the block are nearly irrelevant. This setup with scrolls just made that even more so. I like the idea of no PM games, or at least night-only for the town, to reduce that. I feel like most vanillas, myself included, just sit back and wait for others to take the lead and then follow their votes, as opposed to actually using the votes as the primary information source like it's claimed to be. 

I agree with your view on the scrolls, but there really wasn't all that much going on behind the scenes. I believe very strongly that no amount of night actions make up for strong minded, inquisitive, tenacious and diligent vanilla townies. If such a townie is up for a lynch then it is part of their role to strongly stand up and defend themself. Sitting back is, as far as I'm concerned, utter bullshit, and I would go so far as to say that if you'll only play the game if you have an interesting role then you shouldn't be playing the game at all. 

The town block was a bit of a mix of paranoia, mistrust and bad timings, and we were actually quite lucky, but at least we tried. It is frustrating to be on the outside, I know, but there wasn't much of an "inside". I spoke mostly to Foog, only because he tried to make me go public with the investigation result, and had very little conversation with anyone else. I knew he was talking to a few other people, who constituted "the loop" which is why I was so confused with Chromeknight wanting to bring me into a loop that I knew didn't really exist but that he wasn't in if it had. 

Everything I did as an inventor I would have done as a vanilla. Except the night actions, obvs.

I also really don't like the idea of not lynching. It is fruitless and only helps the scum. I get the concerns about numbers and so on, but every game should be balanced no matter the numbers. If Hinck had created a game that fell apart because we lynched a townie on day one, it's his blood we'd be after. As I've already said, anyone playing the game should be up for making a robust defence for themself if they're up for a lynch, so "accidentally lynching power roles" doesn't cut it for me either. I don't want to come across as harsh, as there's a lot of stuff we do agree on, but you've hit upon points about which I feel strongly.

[mostlytechnic]

7 hours ago, Pandora said:

I agree with your view on the scrolls, but there really wasn't all that much going on behind the scenes. I believe very strongly that no amount of night actions make up for strong minded, inquisitive, tenacious and diligent vanilla townies. If such a townie is up for a lynch then it is part of their role to strongly stand up and defend themself. Sitting back is, as far as I'm concerned, utter megablocks, and I would go so far as to say that if you'll only play the game if you have an interesting role then you shouldn't be playing the game at all. 

I'm not at ALL saying I want to sit idle - I'm saying I would prefer the game have fewer mechanisms that lead to passive vanilla. It's a big black mark on vanilla townies, myself absolutely included, that we've become passive. 

I think the scrolls could have helped with that, if we had more information on them. I felt like they were a big black box that we (those not having them) could not analyze, and therefore they didn't get talked about very much. Either people who had them were quiet to keep secret what they knew, or the rest of us didn't even know what to ask or poke about. As vanillas, we need MORE talk in the game so that we have discussion to analyze to look for scummy actions. 

As for the lynching, I totally expect future hosts to have a "most votes gets lynched" rule as opposed to requiring 50%. That makes sense to me and I'm fine with it. Lynching is the crux of the game after all. In this case, I saw how the rule was written and made use of it to try and win. That's also part of the game, exploiting loopholes :) 

[jimmynick]

On 1/22/2020 at 3:49 AM, Kristel said:

@jimmynick, it was 6 hours because I was fast asleep - the time stamp on your PM was 12.06AM!  I actually thought you were on to me when, at some point, you asked me whether I needed to sleep before putting my vote in.

I think I asked you if I could trust you to be around - mainly because I couldn't trust myself to be! The day ended around 2am for me, but I stayed up anyway biting my nails.

15 hours ago, mostlytechnic said:

Sorry (sort of) to have messed up your plans with my no-lynch pushing, but I honestly saw that as the best route for the town.

It definitely made life harder for us.

The inventor helps spread the actions love around, and I do think the scroll mechanic helped on that front, too. We do need night actions for mafia not to be blind man's bluff, I think. I think in this game, the only vote that was really telling was Kristel's vote for Chromeknight.

[Hinckley]

Yes, voting patterns are powerful tools for town. Foog knew Darkdragon was a safe bet because CMP went after her so hard. The scrolls were given randomly. Only giving them to vanilla Townies would've verified vanilla Townies. Blame the cup. Play your game. Exploiting rules loopholes is...well, not against the rules, I suppose. Like purposely acquiring penalty votes to save your savior.

[mostlytechnic]

And I don't see pushing for the no-lynch as preventing learning from voting patterns. People still vote; it just might take till later to learn whether the people being accused are town or scum. And pushing no-lynch is a "voting pattern" in and of itself. It also causes more discussion since now we get to talk about people AND lynching, and more conversation is a good thing. 

But yeah, I probably wouldn't push so hard for no lynch in the future just because it slows things down SO MUCH :) 

[Hinckley]

1 hour ago, mostlytechnic said:

And I don't see pushing for the no-lynch as preventing learning from voting patterns. People still vote; it just might take till later to learn whether the people being accused are town or scum. And pushing no-lynch is a "voting pattern" in and of itself. It also causes more discussion since now we get to talk about people AND lynching, and more conversation is a good thing. 

But yeah, I probably wouldn't push so hard for no lynch in the future just because it slows things down SO MUCH :) 

My next game will feature a mechanic where anyone pushing a no-lynch will explode.

[fhomess]

15 hours ago, mostlytechnic said:

I'm not at ALL saying I want to sit idle - I'm saying I would prefer the game have fewer mechanisms that lead to passive vanilla. It's a big black mark on vanilla townies, myself absolutely included, that we've become passive. 

This isn't new.  Vanilla's have always been a mixed group with some having this aspect of passivity.  I think some of the recent games have actually been more reliant on strong vanilla play than older games.  Many of the larger games from the past had a lot of PR's, and the game would basically progress as the PR's revealed information.  The difference was that with larger games and more interaction between night actions, PR information became public faster and everyone could talk about it.

We typically have smaller games now.  It's rare to get more than 16 players whereas that used to be on the small end.  Smaller games lend to the townie fear that a mislynch will doom the town before the PR's have a chance to do anything.  I'm with Pandora in that I think lynching is the way to learn about others.

The question of PMing or not is interesting.  Obviously becomes a different experience when you can't PM, and really makes the PR's have to think about how to communicate what they know.  I did enjoy the recent no-PM game.