(moc) 4-6-2 NYC Mercury

[SteamSewnEmpire]

 

[Digger of Bricks]

Wow, I don't believe I've ever seen anyone else attempt this one before...  ...looking pretty good!  

[SteamSewnEmpire]

14 hours ago, Digger of Bricks said:

Wow, I don't believe I've ever seen anyone else attempt this one before...  ...looking pretty good!  

Thanks. I think it only came out so-so. There's no really good way to do the front end (I actually tried two versions before I settled on this one), and the actual locomotive was far rounder than I think Lego can capture in this scale. 

Edited January 7, 2020 by SteamSewnEmpire

[Pdaitabird]

Nice locomotive...I like your solutions for the front plaque and cab windows!

[zephyr1934]

You really did not pick an easy prototype, great work on such a challenge

[Paperinik77pk]

Great model and great work - it is very "curvy" lady  and the streamlined lines you reproduced are fantastic!!! 

Keep up the good work! 

Davide

[The Brick Boss]

You did amazing! I love how you did the inside if the tender and the wheels. Good show! 

[LEGO Train 12 Volts]

What a great work ...the profile is very sleek and the locomotive is like the real model! 

[SteamSewnEmpire]

I spent about 4 hours completely rebuilding this one. I could find no evidence that the Mercury was ever actually painted baby blue, so I defaulted to grey. I also...

• Lifted the boiler by one plate. 
• Completely reworked the internals. It now has 2x PU Large motors driving one shaft (I hope they can do this? IE, have one motor run forward and the other in reverse, powering a single gear?)
• Totally rebuilt the front end. This was ridiculously difficult because the two curved pieces aren't actually 2 bricks apart - they're slightly less than that. So I had to search all over for pieces that would fill this gap. This does necessitate the temporary removal of the headlight, but I can re-add it as a custom part (with lighting - I left space inside to run the wires for a light). I'll have to cut the central arch piece, but have no qualms about doing so since it was literally the only brick type that would work in this gap.
• Moved the rear skirt curve back to the "refit" position, exposing the firebox (which was never there before). This not only allows for some additional detail and interesting angles, but also gives the rear truck an opportunity to swing a bit more. Technically, the locomotive is now the James Whitcomb Riley. 
• The front truck is now double articulated. 

Edited January 16, 2020 by SteamSewnEmpire

[supertruper1988]

wow a truly great model. Love all the new detail!

[SteamSewnEmpire]

1 hour ago, supertruper1988 said:

wow a truly great model. Love all the new detail!

Thanks. I just can't decide between this and the century :(. I can only afford to build one.

Edited January 17, 2020 by SteamSewnEmpire

[Digger of Bricks]

3 hours ago, SteamSewnEmpire said:

I spent about 4 hours completely rebuilding this one.

Oh yeah, that front in particular looks infinitely better using those quarter bows instead...  

58 minutes ago, SteamSewnEmpire said:

Thanks. I just can't decide between this and the century. I can only afford to build one.

Your Century does look quite promising, but I'd say go for the Mercury since many haven't attempted it (if any at all). 

[SteamSewnEmpire]

11 hours ago, Digger of Bricks said:

Oh yeah, that front in particular looks infinitely better using those quarter bows instead...  

Your Century does look quite promising, but I'd say go for the Mercury since many haven't attempted it (if any at all). 

There are a few hangups about the Mercury that I'd like to ask your (and others') input on:

1) The big quarter bows don't come in LBG - the closest color (oddly enough) is flat silver. I'd be inclined to dye the parts, but, aside from black interior car dye, I've never had any luck with dyes coming even close to the mark of reproducing actual Lego colors. Does anyone know of a good dye that nails LBG?

2) The rear truck has minimum swing capacity no matter what I do - even with the more "open" version, it (ironically) has about the same few degrees of movement capable with the "close" skirts. I'm kind of up against a rock and a hard place when it comes to these skirts - I want to reproduce the look of the actual locomotive, but achieving it almost fully compromises its ability to turn.

3) Speaking of skirts, this is a new version of the loco with the actual full-length skirts. Is this preferable, even though it eliminates detail (it is the classic Mercury look)?

Edited January 17, 2020 by SteamSewnEmpire

[Phil B]

I cannot comment on #1 as I have no experience with painting bricks (and it goes against my LEGO building principles), but for #2 and #3 you need to ask yourself what the smallest radius curve is that your layout will have (and don’t forget about switches!). Even R72 will still have considerable movement on the trucks - only once you hit R108 or R120 your trucks will be acting more like the prototypical trucks. One trick I have employed on some of my builds is to make the bottom part of the skirts part of the bogie/truck. Using tiles on the top and the downward pressure of the engine to keep things aligned, this keeps an integrated look on straights while still allowing for a wider swing in curves. The downside is that, unless you make parts of it out of snotted tiles, there might be some discontinuity in the side of your engine as you need to leave small gaps to accommodate for the rotating skirt parts.

Here is an example from my recent Hogwarts Express:

HE Tender close-ups by Phil B, on Flickr

Edited January 17, 2020 by Phil B

[SteamSewnEmpire]

7 minutes ago, Phil B said:

I cannot comment on #1 as I have no experience with painting bricks (and it goes against my LEGO building principles), but for #2 and #3 you need to ask yourself what the smallest radius curve is that your layout will have (and don’t forget about switches!). Even R72 will still have considerable movement on the trucks - only once you hit R108 or R120 your trucks will be acting more like the prototypical trucks. One trick I have employed on some of my builds is to make the bottom part of the skirts part of the bogie/truck. Using tiles on the top and the downward pressure of the engine to keep things aligned, this keeps an integrated look on straights while still allowing for a wider swing in curves. The downside is that, unless you make parts of it out of snotted tiles, there might be some discontinuity in the side of your engine as you need to leave small gaps to accommodate for the rotating skirt parts.

Here is an example from my recent Hogwarts Express:

HE Tender close-ups by Phil B, on Flickr

Interesting idea. Thank you.

[Digger of Bricks]

On 1/17/2020 at 6:39 AM, SteamSewnEmpire said:

Speaking of skirts, this is a new version of the loco with the actual full-length skirts. Is this preferable, even though it eliminates detail (it is the classic Mercury look)?

Personally, I think either rendition aesthetically looks all right with me; but, as for your previous two questions, I'm afraid I can't quite answer either of them from a technical perspective, as I've never built any sort of locomotive myself. 

[SteamSewnEmpire]

Does anyone know if this kind of dual motor setup will work with PU?

[Daedalus304]

47 minutes ago, SteamSewnEmpire said:

Does anyone know if this kind of dual motor setup will work with PU?

Yeah, it should work with any set of identical motors actually, with no need for a pole reverser. 

I would strongly recommend two things though: 

1. Make sure your gearbox is extremely well reinforced. As it looks now, those half bezel gears are very likely to slip (click click click click) and/or ultimately fall off. Wherever possible/practical, try to use the full sized gears. You could switch the half's out for fulls, and change 1 of your 3-Long Axles for a 4, and put a bushing on the end between them. That should keep everything in place well.

2. Those look like Powered Up's equivalent of the Medium Motor. This motor is very quick but also fairly weak without small wheels and/or low gearing. If you're driving XXL Drivers off of them, their performance is going to be very underwhelming geared up the way you have it. I'd recommend putting the gear ratio the other way around - 12t gears off the motors feeding a 24t gear for the drive. 

Edited January 18, 2020 by Daedalus304

[SteamSewnEmpire]

57 minutes ago, Daedalus304 said:

Yeah, it should work with any set of identical motors actually, with no need for a pole reverser. 

I would strongly recommend two things though: 

1. Make sure your gearbox is extremely well reinforced. As it looks now, those half bezel gears are very likely to slip (click click click click) and/or ultimately fall off. Wherever possible/practical, try to use the full sized gears. You could switch the half's out for fulls, and change 1 of your 3-Long Axles for a 4, and put a bushing on the end between them. That should keep everything in place well.

2. Those look like Powered Up's equivalent of the Medium Motor. This motor is very quick but also fairly weak without small wheels and/or low gearing. If you're driving XXL Drivers off of them, their performance is going to be very underwhelming geared up the way you have it. I'd recommend putting the gear ratio the other way around - 12t gears off the motors feeding a 24t gear for the drive. 

Done, thanks again. 

I actually believed these are the PU equivalent of a large motor, though (they are the "middle" size). Should I go back to the other gearing arrangement?

[Daedalus304]

The absolute definitive source of information on Lego motors, in my experience, Philohome, has this page comparing just about every motor Lego has made:

https://www.philohome.com/motors/motorcomp.htm

It would appear that the Boost motor (Which seems to be the motor you used) has slightly more torque than the Medium Motor, but nowhere near as much as the Larges. I don't think they'll be strong enough for XXL Drivers with that gearing.

I don't believe LDD has the PU Large or XL Motors in it. But they are 1 stud longer than the standard PF versions.

In my most recent revision of my ATSF 2926, I have two PF Large Motors driving the XXL Drivers through a 12:20 gearbox. That is a pretty good balance between speed and strength. You may be able to get away with 1:1 gearing, but I'm not sure. It probably depends a lot on your loads and bearings/etc.

[SteamSewnEmpire]

4 hours ago, Daedalus304 said:

The absolute definitive source of information on Lego motors, in my experience, Philohome, has this page comparing just about every motor Lego has made:

https://www.philohome.com/motors/motorcomp.htm

It would appear that the Boost motor (Which seems to be the motor you used) has slightly more torque than the Medium Motor, but nowhere near as much as the Larges. I don't think they'll be strong enough for XXL Drivers with that gearing.

I don't believe LDD has the PU Large or XL Motors in it. But they are 1 stud longer than the standard PF versions.

In my most recent revision of my ATSF 2926, I have two PF Large Motors driving the XXL Drivers through a 12:20 gearbox. That is a pretty good balance between speed and strength. You may be able to get away with 1:1 gearing, but I'm not sure. It probably depends a lot on your loads and bearings/etc.

If your engine is the one I am thinking of, isn't it 10w? I mean, there are probably a lot more bricks that it's having to lug.

The most coaches these engines would ever pull is 3 - probably more reasonably 2. Coaches (with interiors) are like 1,200 parts per - I couldn't justify more than three.

I'll see if I can get two Ls into them tomorrow. It will take a ton of retooling, and I am too tired for it now.

Edited January 19, 2020 by SteamSewnEmpire

[Daedalus304]

24 minutes ago, SteamSewnEmpire said:

If your engine is the one I am thinking of, isn't it 10w? I mean, there are probably a lot more bricks that it's having to lug.

The most coaches these engines would ever pull is 3 - probably more reasonably 2. Coaches (with interiors) are like 1,200 parts per - I couldn't justify more than three.

I'll see if I can get two Ls into them tomorrow. It will take a ton of retooling, and I am too tired for it now.

It's a 9 wide Locomotive, but it and its passenger cars all use roller bearings. The weight of the engine really only gives it more traction and the tender is very smooth to pull, so with some engineering optimizations I don't think the size of the engine itself is what necessitates the amount of motors.

In another build, an A1 Peppercorn, it also uses the XXL Drivers and 1 PF Large driver. That is geared 12:20 as well, and that is also a good balance, though definitely not as powerful. The two motors you have here look like together they are just about as strong as 1 L-motor. For the size/amount of coaches you're running and your engines I think those motors are fine, but I still would recommend gearing it down instead of up.

[SteamSewnEmpire]

Okay, just spent the past 5 hours gutting and completely rebuilding both this loco and the Century (and I do mean gutting - they were in a lot more pieces than the photo below). They both now have identical motoring schemes: 2x large PU motors powering a single shaft leading down (I dummied up the PU motors by using PF L plus a technic stud to the rear). The first and third drivers and powered, while the middle will be driven by the rods. Optimistically this new arrangement will be powerful enough to meet my needs:

While the Mercury will likely never have clearance issues sorted (even if I fix the rear truck, the front is impossible to redo in any manner that looks good), I am confident that the Century can run on at least some Lego track, since it has pretty generous clearances for both trucks.

Edited January 19, 2020 by SteamSewnEmpire

[Jeffinslaw]

Very nicely done! The Mercury was one I kind of wanted to try and build... very difficult though.

-Jeffinslaw

[SteamSewnEmpire]

1 hour ago, Jeffinslaw said:

Very nicely done! The Mercury was one I kind of wanted to try and build... very difficult though.

-Jeffinslaw

It was... and it wasn't. I think the Century was, honestly, the more difficult of the two. Plus, I am cheating a bit with the Mercury by boring my own headlight hole (I don't think there's any way NOT to do that, and use this set of parts; I really had to choose between "legal" Lego practices, and what produced a good shape. I chose the latter). Thanks, though.

As an aside, I have - after studying numerous photos, train artwork, and models - concluded that the color of the original (the first run) Mercury was actually dark grey... so I guess that's the color this engine will be. It's pretty sad, because I think it looks sexy as heck in the blue. But grey with pinstripes was really the NYC's "thing" - about the only loco they ever did that wasn't that color was for the Rexall Train.