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35 minutes ago, Maple said:

We have never had an action theme that didn't include 90% vehicles.

Saying that we "never" had a action theme that isn't 90% vehicles isn't exactly true. Pharaoh's Quest, Adventurers, Monster Fighters, even Hidden Side are examples of location-based themes. 

LEGO does do location-based themes from time to time, but yeah, unfortunately vehicles seem to dominate action themes at this point.

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I still hope with Elves being retired that this theme will be more Elves-like.

No minidolls but still have buildings/caves and possibly giant-animal builds that look less like mechs.

Monkey Kid possibly riding on a Cloud in a set, and one of the other main characters Tang riding on a white horse.

Still could have dragons as well but more in the Chinese style rather then having large wings and legs.

 

Elves also still had animal mounts, ships and such which could fit into a Journey to the West style theme , mostly martial arts instead of vehicle combat.

 

Edited by TeriXeri

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Remember that this theme was rumored to have an augmented reality component, and if so, location based sets would be more appropriate. The fact that we only have one leaked bigfig and a logo from a trademark application means that LEGO has committed resources to keeping this under wraps. 

Just now, TeriXeri said:

I still hope with Elves being retired that this theme will be more Elves-like.

No minidolls but still have buildings/caves and possibly giant-animal builds that look less like mechs.

Monkey Kid possibly riding on a Cloud in a set, and one of the other main characters Tang riding on a white horse.

Still could have dragons as well but more in the Chinese style rather then having large wings and legs.

 

LEGO already makes a cloud piece. Easy enough to envision that.

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Just now, Lego David said:

Saying that we "never" had a action theme that isn't 90% vehicles isn't exactly true. Pharaoh's Quest, Adventurers, Monster Fighters, even Hidden Side are examples of location-based themes. 

LEGO does do location-based themes from time to time, but yeah, unfortunately vehicles seem to dominate action themes at this point.

I was thinking more Chima, Nexo Knights, NinjaGo as 'action'but I guess they are more 'big bang'. Hidden side is exactly how LEGO should make a theme though.

But I'm thinking the theme will be a slightly more ground Chima with weird vehicles and Asian inspired. I'm guessing we will see them at the end of the month.

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9 hours ago, Mattah12 said:

I wonder if these fake sets could be half Leaf and half Ninjago?

 

9 hours ago, Lego David said:

We don't have any official information, but we still have the Knock-off sets. The official sets will most likely be very similar.

What knock offs? Can’t find them!! I wanna seeeeeseeee :)

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I don't understand why people think the off-brand sets have anything to do with what we will get from Lego. 

There are two types of clone brands

- ones that directly rip off Lego's designs and are therefore breaking the law - these never release set pictures before Lego (since they have no idea what will be released).

- ones with their own designs (e.g. Sluban) that just make their own licensing deals.

 

One of the other brands decided to make sets based on Journey to the West. But that has nothing to do with Lego's sets. Those will be wildly different, if only so as not to infringe on any intellectual property (because if Lego now made a product too similar to the "clone" one, Lego itself would become the clone).

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The knock-off brands sets are just an idea of what we might see for this theme. I don't know why so many people would assume there are going to be vehicles in this line? I keep reading comparisons on this thread to Nexo and Chima, but there is nothing in the lore of this story to make me expect anything futuristic or technology based.  Ninjago has turned Nexo (and useless) this year, but that doesn't mean this theme will be. 

This looks to be a mythological/fantasy theme with some animal-humanoids which sounds great to me.

I could be wrong, but I think maybe the big vehicle/futuristic ships is more aimed at American kids? 

 

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15 hours ago, Gorilla94 said:

don´t see ANY similarity to a blackface caricature except the colours black and red... It is just a funny little cartoon ape smiley with black fur. If that´s racist Calimero, the little duck would be, too ... https://www.pinterest.de/pin/76139049926765285/ *huh*

Take a look on the bull´s horns and the purple sword... Would be great for a Balrog, if they appear in the right colours... :innocent:

http://en.qmjm.com/index.php?g=Home&m=Index&a=product_series_list&id=729&l=en

As long as it is free from Chima-Scifi-Steampunk-stuff it could be quite a nice theme delivering new castle-armor-prints, headgear, wepons and so on like Ninjago is from time to time.

I would suggest that there is a chance that we may not be thinking of the same racist children's books and dolls and other such turn-of-the-century materual; I happen to own a book on the etiology of the blackface tradition, and so I feel relatively safe in stating my opinion on this one.

That said, most people, and certainly most children, will not make that connection, so I would have some faith in TLG on this front.

12 hours ago, Lego David said:

We don't have any official information, but we still have the Knock-off sets. The official sets will most likely be very similar.

Nah, man; if there's one thing that the folks over at TLG corporate are not in the habit of doing, it's giving any clout to the knockoff manufacturers. I have some strong faith in TLG in that we will see some mind-changing, paradigm-shifting creative work. :P

Edited by Azani

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9 hours ago, TeriXeri said:

I still hope with Elves being retired that this theme will be more Elves-like.

As far as the first wave runs, I wouldn't count on that; our source material with respect to the 16th-century Journey to the West doesn't really lend itself to the colorful and whimsical style of Elves. I'm expecting something more approximate to the Exo-Force of yore. Lots of bland locations, in addition to a few small vehicle-type kits with traditionally masculine colors; reds, browns, greys.

1 hour ago, Huaojozu said:

I don't understand why people think the off-brand sets have anything to do with what we will get from Lego. 

There are two types of clone brands

- ones that directly rip off Lego's designs and are therefore breaking the law - these never release set pictures before Lego (since they have no idea what will be released).

- ones with their own designs (e.g. Sluban) that just make their own licensing deals.

 

One of the other brands decided to make sets based on Journey to the West. But that has nothing to do with Lego's sets. Those will be wildly different, if only so as not to infringe on any intellectual property (because if Lego now made a product too similar to the "clone" one, Lego itself would become the clone).

On point, sir. TLG can't afford to litigate as the defendant anymore.

Edited by Azani

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6 hours ago, Huaojozu said:

I don't understand why people think the off-brand sets have anything to do with what we will get from Lego. 

There are two types of clone brands

- ones that directly rip off Lego's designs and are therefore breaking the law - these never release set pictures before Lego (since they have no idea what will be released).

- ones with their own designs (e.g. Sluban) that just make their own licensing deals.

 

One of the other brands decided to make sets based on Journey to the West. But that has nothing to do with Lego's sets. Those will be wildly different, if only so as not to infringe on any intellectual property (because if Lego now made a product too similar to the "clone" one, Lego itself would become the clone).

Isn't a bit suspicious how two brands came up with the exact same idea for a product line around the exact same time? I personally don't think this is just a coincidence.

Edited by Lego David

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5 hours ago, Azani said:

I would suggest that there is a chance that we may not be thinking of the same racist children's books and dolls and other such turn-of-the-century materual; I happen to own a book on the etiology of the blackface tradition, and so I feel relatively safe in stating my opinion on this one.

That said, most people, and certainly most children, will not make that connection, so I would have some faith in TLG on this front.

Ok, are they different from the "classic" comic depiction with extremely fat red lips in a completely black face? I am just curious because i had some classes about postcolonial studies and saw a bunch of illustrations from the last century.

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6 hours ago, Rogue Angel said:

I don't know why so many people would assume there are going to be vehicles in this line? I keep reading comparisons on this thread to Nexo and Chima, but there is nothing in the lore of this story to make me expect anything futuristic or technology based. 

I definitely agree. If the line keeps close to the original story, vehicles seem unlikely. If it's just loosely based on it, then it may as well look like Nexo, Chima, Elves, or anything in between. 

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8 hours ago, Azani said:

As far as the first wave runs, I wouldn't count on that; our source material with respect to the 16th-century Journey to the West doesn't really lend itself to the colorful and whimsical style of Elves. I'm expecting something more approximate to the Exo-Force of yore. Lots of bland locations, in addition to a few small vehicle-type kits with traditionally masculine colors; reds, browns, greys.

I mostly meant the location and animal focus of Elves, not so much the color scheme, as the source material has a lot of different animals and potential of caves, cities and temples.

Maybe some of those animal builds use "mech" type parts but LEGO is getting better at their animal builds in recent years for sure, they don't need to look like Vehicles or Mechs if they design it right.

Edited by TeriXeri

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9 hours ago, Azani said:

As far as the first wave runs, I wouldn't count on that; our source material with respect to the 16th-century Journey to the West doesn't really lend itself to the colorful and whimsical style of Elves. I'm expecting something more approximate to the Exo-Force of yore. Lots of bland locations, in addition to a few small vehicle-type kits with traditionally masculine colors; reds, browns, greys.

On point, sir. TLG can't afford to litigate as the defendant anymore.

 

52 minutes ago, TeriXeri said:

I mostly meant the location and animal focus of Elves, not so much the color scheme, as the source material has a lot of different animals and potential of caves, cities and temples.

Maybe some of those animal builds use "mech" type parts but LEGO is getting better at their animal builds in recent years for sure, they don't need to look like Vehicles or Mechs if they design it right.

Actually I think we could get quite a lot of whimsy. Hallmark did a Monkey King story called Lost Empire (IMDb simply lists it as Monkey King) that has the characters using oversized pole weapons, wonderfully outlandish costumes, and a number of locations that use a good deal of color. There are ways to depict the places in Journey To The West with a similar color palette as Elves. The logo that has been shared suggests a very cartoonish look to the theme.

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8 hours ago, Gorilla94 said:

Ok, are they different from the "classic" comic depiction with extremely fat red lips in a completely black face? I am just curious because i had some classes about postcolonial studies and saw a bunch of illustrations from the last century.

You don't live in the USA, you don't understand the racism and just how deep it is.

The racism isn't just the colors used, it's MONKEY Boy. It's the fact it's a monkey, if it was Duck Boy it wouldn't be an issue. For hundreds of years, and even to this day, black people in America are called monkeys so they can be treated as sub-human. The number 1 TV Show Roseanne got canceled two years ago because she called a black woman a monkey on Twitter. It's what black face is, it's to make dark skin humans look like monkeys so they can be treated like cattle.

Anyways. I don't think this will be closely based on the book. It's going be loosely based. LEGO isn't going to make an 'action' or 'big banh', or whatever we want to call it, theme that doesn't have vehicles. LEGO will never make a theme that doesn't have minidolls that doesn't have vehicles. Vehicles sell. AFOL want locations, 6 year olds want mechs and helicopters.

Edited by Maple

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6 minutes ago, Maple said:

LEGO isn't going to make an 'action' or 'big banh', or whatever we want to call it, theme that doesn't have vehicles. LEGO will never make a theme that doesn't have minidolls that doesn't have vehicles. Vehicles sell. AFOL want locations, 6 year olds want mechs and helicopters.

Well, they still made Hidden Side, which is almost entirely location-based, so you never know... :shrug_oh_well:.

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11 minutes ago, Maple said:

You don't live in the USA, you don't understand the racism and just how deep it is.

The racism isn't just the colors used, it's MONKEY Boy. It's the fact it's a monkey ...

Please stop projecting American racism onto a Lego play theme based on a classic Chinese novel that has nothing to do with American racism.  Let's not make this more complicated than it needs to be. Let's not bring the horrible portion of the internet that is American racism into a discussion of an innocent Lego play theme for which we've only seen the logo.  Please.

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All you guys are acting like fantasy and vehicles can’t coexist at all. Even elves had vehicles, things like carriages, boats, and siege weapons. Animals especially took the place of vehicles, and Dragons have been used in Ninjago since the theme’s creation. Will this theme be mostly locations? Probably not, but that doesn’t mean we’ll getting cars and helicopters in a theme based on Chinese mythology. 

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1 hour ago, NetherCreeper said:

All you guys are acting like fantasy and vehicles can’t coexist at all. Even elves had vehicles, things like carriages, boats, and siege weapons. Animals especially took the place of vehicles, and Dragons have been used in Ninjago since the theme’s creation. Will this theme be mostly locations? Probably not, but that doesn’t mean we’ll getting cars and helicopters in a theme based on Chinese mythology. 

Of course there's 100% room for animals and dragons, I even suggested them.

I think most concerns are with those "mechanical" type vehicles seen in past action themes.

There is a big difference between a Lion Vehicle and a Fantasy Lion Mount : 

 70002-1.jpg?20121018045841192-1.jpg?201712110858

And while Chima did have many mechanical looking vehicles, they had some Legend Beasts as well : 

70123-1.jpg?201311210515

Edited by TeriXeri

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1 hour ago, icm said:

Please stop projecting American racism onto a Lego play theme based on a classic Chinese novel that has nothing to do with American racism.  Let's not make this more complicated than it needs to be. Let's not bring the horrible portion of the internet that is American racism into a discussion of an innocent Lego play theme for which we've only seen the logo.  Please.

All I'm saying is the logo made me think of BLACK FACE and I'm not the only one. Then a bunch of Europeans who don't understand that 'monkey' in the USA is sometimes used as a racial slur is continuing their ignorant non-sense. 

I'm over it. It's a bad logo and a stupid name for a theme.

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15 minutes ago, Maple said:

All I'm saying is the logo made me think of BLACK FACE and I'm not the only one. Then a bunch of Europeans who don't understand that 'monkey' in the USA is sometimes used as a racial slur is continuing their ignorant non-sense. 

I'm over it. It's a bad logo and a stupid name for a theme.

If you find the logo so offensive then go ahead and make a complaint to Lego.

I don't know about you but I'm here to talk about toys and not about how a logo could be offensive to some people.

 

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@Maple Excuse me?! I studied history and wrote several papers on colonial history and abolition. I know most likely much more than you. All i did was politely and honestly interested asking if there are varriants of the "classic" blackface depiction, because the monkey doesn't have the fat red lips. He has the red in circles around his eyes. Except the two colours there is nothing that he has in common with it. He isn't closer to a blackface than the cartoon duck.

I know that the monkey insult is a thing in America. The sh*tstorm about the commercial for a "coolest monkey in the jungle"-T-Shirt worn by a child with dark skincolour was in German news, too. Blackface depiction are much older than the insult of Africans beeing monkeys. The blackface depiction has nothing to do with a monkey. You are totaly mixing up 2 different things you think to see with a certain bias and react in an insulting way towards people who did nothing wrong.

 

 

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5 hours ago, Maple said:

...The racism isn't just the colors used, it's MONKEY Boy. It's the fact it's a monkey, if it was Duck Boy it wouldn't be an issue. For hundreds of years, and even to this day, black people in America are called monkeys so they can be treated as sub-human. The number 1 TV Show Roseanne got canceled two years ago because she called a black woman a monkey on Twitter. It's what black face is, it's to make dark skin humans look like monkeys so they can be treated like cattle.

Inordinately, the real issue here is the "Monkey" terminology. @Gorilla94 may be on top of the horrid extent of the whole blackface (or, more accurately, the marginalization and engendered hatred for people of African descent in the ststes), but the catch is the keyword that you highlighted above. The combination of red, black, and the "monkey" adjective, as it is utilized in the theme's name, is a perfect storm.

5 hours ago, Maple said:

...Anyways. I don't think this will be closely based on the book. It's going be loosely based. LEGO isn't going to make an 'action' or 'big banh', or whatever we want to call it, theme that doesn't have vehicles. LEGO will never make a theme that doesn't have minidolls that doesn't have vehicles. Vehicles sell. AFOL want locations, 6 year olds want mechs and helicopters.

If it were to be closely based on the actual text of "Monkey" or "Journey to the West", I don't believe that we'd be picking up on a fourteen set line with several sets above 50 EUR. TLG is in this one to sell kits to children, not to produce art.

1 hour ago, Gorilla94 said:

@Maple Excuse me?! I studied history and wrote several papers on colonial history and abolition. I know most likely much more than you. All i did was politely and honestly interested asking if there are varriants of the "classic" blackface depiction, because the monkey doesn't have the fat red lips. He has the red in circles around his eyes. Except the two colours there is nothing that he has in common with it. He isn't closer to a blackface than the cartoon duck.

I know that the monkey insult is a thing in America. The sh*tstorm about the commercial for a "coolest monkey in the jungle"-T-Shirt worn by a child with dark skincolour was in German news, too. Blackface depiction are much older than the insult of Africans beeing monkeys. The blackface depiction has nothing to do with a monkey. You are totaly mixing up 2 different things you think to see with a certain bias and react in an insulting way towards people who did nothing wrong.

This doesn't have anything to do with colonialism or abolition; it has to do with blackface and "sambo" depictions in American popular culture. This is a mass media convulsion, and the simple fact that two members here jumped to the "racist" conclusion immediately after seeing the logo that we now know to be extra-corporation promotional material is evidence enough of the disability that TLG suffers here.

Edited by Azani
Wording!

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I think it is important to be precise. If someone says "that's racist" he should be able to say why. Is the word monkey racist now even when used for a gorilla or chimpanzee? Then i take everything back and apologize. If not there is nothing to critisize in the design. There is a theme called monkey kid about a little monkey. The artwork shows an ape... another animal would be strange, wouldn't it?

It was said the ape is a blackface. That's what was concerning me and it has in fact to do with this period of history. The blackface depiction with big red lips and a certain type of cheeckbones is no monkey. Here we have a little cartoon monkey without any cheekbones, lips or nose which happens to be red and black in a completely different way. It is just no blackface so i wouldn't use the term. When we say it is still racist because it is a monkey in these colours and monkey can be used as an insult for the same group which is discriminated against with another depiction in the same colours, we reach a point where you can call nearly everything racist. As far as i know from a TV Show about prison inmates "Toad" is another racist term for black people. Would a black poison frog with red dots on his back be racist then, too? 

As far as it seems to me this discussion is all about bias. When I - as a gamer and historian - see a unicorn i think about Witcher 3 and some mythological stories inappropriate for children first. That doesn't mean that unicorns are inappropriate for children. When racism is quite present in my thoughts and a childrens toy reminds me of it that doesn't mean the toy is racist.

 

Edited by Gorilla94

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8 minutes ago, Gorilla94 said:

When racism is quite present in my thoughts and a childrens toy reminds me of it that doesn't mean the toy is racist.

Hear, hear!

Edited by icm

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