Has LEGO ever listened to AFOLs? If so, when?

[Lego David]

Just curious, but has there been any time where LEGO actually listened to AFOL feedback and improved upon what needed improvement? I am pretty sure this happened (or still happeneds, I don't know), but I personally don't know any example of this happening. Can anyone give me examples of occasions when LEGO listened to AFOLs?

[Digger of Bricks]

1 hour ago, Lego David said:

Just curious, but has there been any time where LEGO actually listened to AFOL feedback and improved upon what needed improvement? I am pretty sure this happened (or still happeneds, I don't know), but I personally don't know any example of this happening. Can anyone give me examples of occasions when LEGO listened to AFOLs?

AFOL feedback was critical component in TLG's 2004 restructuring you know...

[Mylenium]

3 hours ago, Lego David said:

Just curious, but has there been any time where LEGO actually listened to AFOL feedback and improved upon what needed improvement? I am pretty sure this happened (or still happeneds, I don't know), but I personally don't know any example of this happening. Can anyone give me examples of occasions when LEGO listened to AFOLs?

They listen to that all the time and I'm sure the official ambassadors are dutifully reporting stuff to them as there may be actual LEGO employees roaming forums and blogs in their private time unbeknownst to the rest of the world as well. that said, the issue with large companies like LEGO is of course that knowledge doesn't necessarily translate to action and at the end of the day even the best ideas are scrutinized for their business value. That's not just true for external input but also internally. I'm sure many good ideas by actual employees fall by the wayside or get stuck in the internal hierarchy just as well. that's just how it is.

Mylenium

[MAB]

Yes, they do. For example, the creation of the Modulars and the whole of Creator Expert. UCS Star Wars sets, the majority of larger technic sets. They don't make these for kids. They listen to AFOLs , just like they listen to feedback from kids. Of course, that doesn't mean they are going to listen to every idea from AFOLs, especially if this goes against their ideals or interferes with other product lines.

And then there is the IDEAS theme - what is that if not listening to AFOLs?

 

[LegoFjotten]

In addition to what has already been mentioned, they also do workshops at some of the fan events. Last year I went to two workshops at the Skærbæk Fan Weekend,  one was purely for feedback on various topics, the other was two parts where the second part was feedback & suggestions. This year they had sessions on Ideas & Lead User Lab (did not attend any of them), but feedback & suggestions were probably a big part of them.

...and last but not least, quite a few AFOLs are now LEGO designers and keep in touch with the community.

[danth]

The existence of Benny's Spaceship and Benny's Space Squad with all new "old" helmets has convinced me that Lego doesn't totally hate us AFOLs. 

If we just got some Classic Space and Castle themed Creator Expert sets, I'd be convinced they actually kinda like us. 

[The Brick Boss]

Of course they listen to adults. Otherwise, I wouldn't have seen some City sets that I've been screaming for. Though City isn't really targeted toward us. 

Matter of fact, they've just started recently doing it more often  as its grown to 40%. 2016 marked a huge milestone. I never thought I'd see Simpsons come into the Lego universe. Though if we look at the Cafe Corner from 2007 and Building Bonzana from 2005, I guess they started a little bit back when the AFOL was at 5%. 

Now we have a set from Friends, modulars are more relevant now than ever and I think we have or are going to see a Big Bang Theory. Technic and Star Wars also have a large adult and teen fanbase. I call the latter side TFOLs (Teen Fans Of Lego). 

Edited December 13, 2019 by pooda

[icm]

3 minutes ago, pooda said:

 40%

You keep saying that number.  Where does it come from?  Please tell us where it comes from.  I think several people have asked you this question before.

[The Brick Boss]

Just now, icm said:

You keep saying that number.  Where does it come from?  Please tell us where it comes from.  I think several people have asked you this question before.

No one has actually asked me that. But like I told them, I'm telling you. It was an insider who's name I'm not at liberty to say. 

Edited December 13, 2019 by pooda

[icm]

If no one asked you before, how could you tell them?  You've said before that you know a guy who you're not allowed to talk about.  I get that.  I'm not asking you to splash his name all across the internet.  But that 40% number would be a lot more credible if you would just give a tiny bit more context.  Does this guy work in corporate market research for Lego, or does he work at a Lego brand retail store?  Why would this person (man, woman, or non-binary) have any authoritative answer to the question of AFOL market share?  Until you say something about that, I see no reason to give your 40% number any more authority than the 5, 10, 15, or 20% numbers I've variously seen bandied about the web.  But it's a question that I think a lot of AFOLs have asked many times, and we'd like a reliable answer.  So that's why I'm asking: not to criticize, but because I want to know.

[The Brick Boss]

No one has to ask me anything. I just say it in dependent clause way of "This is that way...according to...." and that's how I say it. Of course he works for the darn company. How else can he tell me? The internet can lie to you too. I only trust people who work at the company to provide me with accurate answers. I wouldn't just take anyone's word for it. Of course I believe him because just look at all the adult oriented sets we're getting. 

Now please let's get back to the main topic of the discussion. No further talk on that number is needed. 

When I put out how much it has grown, don't ask questions. Just be happy it's at that number and leave it. Don't challenge me. 

Edited December 13, 2019 by pooda

[icm]

1 hour ago, pooda said:

Of course he works for the darn company. How else can he tell me? .... I only trust people who work at the company to provide me with accurate answers. I wouldn't just take anyone's word for it.

Now please let's get back to the main topic of the discussion. No further talk on that number is needed. 

When I put out how much it has grown, don't ask questions. Just be happy it's at that number and leave it. Don't challenge me. 

I'm not asking more questions to challenge you per se, but because these questions are quite relevant to understanding how much effort Lego puts into interacting with AFOLs.  If Lego's internal market research pegged the AFOL market share at 40% of sales revenue, they - as you say - would behave very differently than if they pegged the AFOL share at 5% of sales revenue.  But if they have an erroneously high or low estimation of the AFOL share, they could make some serious mistakes which they then might or might not correct after further study of adult fans' reactions to their products.  But I wouldn't trust any old person who works for Lego to have an accurate, quantified, statistically solid understanding of what percentage of Lego sales are due to adult fans, any more than I would trust any old person who works for General Motors to have an accurate, quantified, statistically solid understanding of what percentage of car sales are due to any given demographic.  That's why I asked where in the company your contact works, approximately speaking.  I don't want your contact's job to be in danger due to any personally identifiable information getting out any more than you do, but I really would like a bit more information.  Just for understanding's sake.  .... And for goodness' sake, asking questions is what a forum like this is for!

Speaking in a manner that is more directly on topic, nothing much comes to mind of concrete instances in which the adult fan community pointed out a flaw in manufacturing, design, or marketing so clearly and so persistently that Lego fixed that flaw, but maybe someone better-informed than me can think of something more.  The new VIP program is said to include its various miscellaneous "rewards" because some people wanted to spend their VIP points on other things besides more sets, but that's just hearsay.  The AFOL Designer Program at Bricklink was, in part, a way to experiment with the desires, voiced every so often on the forums, to make various MOCs and rejected Ideas models available in limited numbers without the fuss of a full production run, although there was a lot more to it than that.  Lego runs, or used to run, a program in which local fan clubs could place large custom orders of bulk bricks a few times a year in order to make big displays for conventions and events.  Certain UCS and D2C sets clearly respond to a groundswell of clamor in the AFOL community for that particular model: the 2017 Millennium Falcon, the 2018 Cloud City, the 2019 Star Destroyer, the 2019 Batmobile.  (Fans had been asking for that one since at least 2014, when the Tumbler was released.)  Then there's the trend of extremely large Technic flagships since 2016: the Porsche, Bugatti, Land Rover, Bucket Wheel Excavator, Rough Terrain Crane, and Liebherr.  You wouldn't believe it now from the way people on the Technic forums respond to these sets and their flaws, but I remember when (not so long ago) the Technic forums were clamoring for very large, very detailed "UCS"-like sets.  They got them!  I know that Lego also reformulated their brown and dark red colors a year or so ago in order to try to make those parts less brittle and prone to snapping.  That's a clear quality control issue that they would certainly have been working on without AFOL feedback, but it's probable that the many AFOL complaints over snapped parts were considered in that process.

If I think of anything else I'll edit this post.

EDIT: The reintroduction of the color teal in 2018 for the Downtown Diner, and its subsequent use for the colorful interior parts in a lot of miscellaneous sets, was at least partially in response to the longstanding desire in some parts of the AFOL community for the reintroduction of that color.  I don't have time to look up an exact citation for that right now, but you should be able to get most of the story by looking for "Mark Stafford killed teal" in your favorite search engine.

EDIT 2: Some parts of the AFOL community had been clamoring for a roller coaster for a few years.  Last year's Creator Expert Roller Coaster is a pretty clear response to that market segment.  But again, that's not a quality or manufacturing issue, so I don't know if it really answers @Lego David's question.

Edited December 13, 2019 by icm

[MAB]

6 hours ago, pooda said:

Matter of fact, they've just started recently as its grown to 40%.

This isn't a fact. It is also somewhat contradictory, like your other statement about nobody asking but you told them.

If they have recently started and it has also grown to 40% then that suggests that before recently, it was ZERO. Otherwise it hasn't recently started. So it has gone from 0% to 40% "recently" whatever that means. Yet AFOLs that have been lego fans for many years know that LEGO has listened to AFOLs and produced sets for AFOLs for longer than "just recently".

[Masked Mini]

10 hours ago, pooda said:

don't ask questions. Just be happy it's at that number and leave it. Don't challenge me. 

That pegged out my bullsh*t meter. No personal offense intended.
Throwing out statements, refusing to substantiate the claims and then trying to stonewall the discussion suggests to me it is made up from whole cloth.
You may truly believe your source, but your credibility on this -with me- is zero.
Not implying you should care whether or not I believe you, either. I'm just a mook from the internet.
But that is not how you convince anyone over the age of say 5 that your argument holds water.
 

[The Brick Boss]

Whoa! I didn't know I would incite some foul language to be used. Look at it this way. If it hasn't grown at least over 30%.....we wouldn't have what we have today. Just like you guys have a hard time believing that its at least up to 40%, I have a hard time believing things on the internet that suggests that its at 5% still. That's stupider than 40%.  

[Mylenium]

21 minutes ago, pooda said:

I have a hard time believing things on the internet that suggests that its at 5% still. That's stupider than 40%.  

Fair enough, but I have a hard time believing either of the numbers. You're perhaps going to chide me for basing this on my own personal observation, but while 40% may be a valid number for most profitable/ largest profit margin/ overall gross, I can't really see how it realistically relates to the overall market structure. There's a whole lot more kids-oriented toy shops than there are places for adults to buy LEGO in an environment that would stimulate their purchase decision. Again, it's absolutely possible that a relatively small chunk of AFOLs generates a lot of ka-ching for LEGO, but i have serious doubts that the overall volume really matches that. It's unlikely that LEGO would be in such a position if there weren't things like City, Friends, Creator 3in1 providing a foundation through mass sales. So with all respect, whatever number you heard is probably just as wrong in the overall picture as is our guessing around, though I would maintain that 20 to 30 percent is a much more realistic number than your 40 while at the same time indeed 5 percent seems way to low to me, too... My 2 Cents.

Mylenium

[The Brick Boss]

4 hours ago, Mylenium said:

Fair enough, but I have a hard time believing either of the numbers. You're perhaps going to chide me for basing this on my own personal observation, but while 40% may be a valid number for most profitable/ largest profit margin/ overall gross, I can't really see how it realistically relates to the overall market structure. There's a whole lot more kids-oriented toy shops than there are places for adults to buy LEGO in an environment that would stimulate their purchase decision. Again, it's absolutely possible that a relatively small chunk of AFOLs generates a lot of ka-ching for LEGO, but i have serious doubts that the overall volume really matches that. It's unlikely that LEGO would be in such a position if there weren't things like City, Friends, Creator 3in1 providing a foundation through mass sales. So with all respect, whatever number you heard is probably just as wrong in the overall picture as is our guessing around, though I would maintain that 20 to 30 percent is a much more realistic number than your 40 while at the same time indeed 5 percent seems way to low to me, too... My 2 Cents.

Mylenium

I'm with you 100% there. I didn't come up with the number though. Just to clear that part up. I heard it from a source. I just pass the love! But I guess I should think before I put it out there. To be honest, I could definately believe 30 to 35%. I just can't believe no number lower than 20%. That's all. I can respect your response because you weren't trolling or being obnoxious. Tbh, the 30% range is the most believable to me because not only has Lego made a lot of sets and themes targeted towards adults, but I even know lots of adults both personally and on social media (and I'm sure you do too) that collect sets that aren't even targeted towards them. I know grown men who collect City and grown women who collect Friends (my lovely fiancee is one. Between me and the forum, we actually met at a Lego Store). So.....with that being said - 40% may be an over exaggeration. I'm sticking more on the side that says its in the 30% range. Once again, thank you for being nicer! 

Pooda

Edited December 13, 2019 by pooda

[Masked Mini]

That's a much more reasonable way to approach things.
I am happy to discuss and on occasion spread the odd rumor myself but I don't try to pass it off as the unquestionable word from God himself.
Recently I stirred up the Future Pirate speculation thread with a juicy one. But I made it clear it was what it was... an unsubstantiated comment from a Store Employee. I gave as much detail as I could without identifying my source. That way everyone reading it can assign their own relative value to the statement. If I had first hand proof that Pirates are coming back in 2020 I would have said that, again so people can take that into account when they make up their opinions. 

Personally I have not the foggiest notion what percentage of TLG's overall gross income comes from AFOLs. I suspect if it was as high as you (pooda) originally claimed we'd be getting more fan service than we get. But if it was as low as the 5% thrown around I don't think we'd see as much fan service as we've received already. So we are somewhere. Maybe in the middle, maybe TLG is just disregarding a huge segment or pampering a tiny one. We can't tell from the outside and there is no credible leak from the inside that I can see/find.

[The Brick Boss]

@Masked Mini Time for some laughs

No! If Lego only listen to KFOLs, I'll tell ya what we'd be seeing. 

• Lego City would be officially changed to Lego Police. 
• Lego Star Wars would get babyfied
• Lego Modulars wouldn't exists 
• The only Creator sets we'd see are those minis and silly creations
• Technic would be non-existent 

Sorry! I felt like making some comic relief there. But with all jokes aside, I think Lego listen to us more than we think. Otherwise, we wouldn't be getting all the Town Jr. nostalgia that we've been getting in my favorite theme, City, recently. 2017 had a Coast Guard reboot, 2018 marked a return of Arctic and Trains and in 2019, Space returned along with the return of the Fire theme. Yeah fire comes every three years, but this fire theme was like no other because with the simplified, but detailed fire station, I got some late 90s vibe. In 2020, Classic Police is coming back along with the Race theme. I'm excited for the former because along with my bus driving job, I also have a keen fondness for the automotive industry. So while they are making kids happy with the police sets, they are unknowingly attracting 90s babies like myself. 

EDIT: I also forgot to mention Jungle Exploration, which in a way was kind of a reboot of the Outback theme from 1997. 

Edited December 13, 2019 by pooda

[Masked Mini]

Just now, pooda said:

hey are unknowingly attracting 90s babies like myself. 

As an 80s baby I just wish they'd unknowingly attract me by bringing back castle, -trons and pirates. 

[The Brick Boss]

Just now, Masked Mini said:

As an 80s baby I just wish they'd unknowingly attract me by bringing back castle, -trons and pirates. 

I knew both of those in the 90s. Captain Redbeard and King Leo were my favorite characters from those themes. I hope they reboot those too! 

[Masked Mini]

Just now, pooda said:

I hope they reboot those too! 

::high-five:: My man!

[The Brick Boss]

1 hour ago, Masked Mini said:

::high-five:: My man!

I better not leave you hanging! ?

[danth]

I'm wondering something.

Certain people will tell us that LEGO listens to AFOLs all the time and that LEGO bends over backwards to please us.

Will those same people tell us, the moment we ask for something, that LEGO is 100% a children's toy and that we should never ask for or expect anything?

[The Brick Boss]

1 hour ago, danth said:

I'm wondering something.

Certain people will tell us that LEGO listens to AFOLs all the time and that LEGO bends over backwards to please us.

Will those same people tell us, the moment we ask for something, that LEGO is 100% a children's toy and that we should never ask for or expect anything?

DANG!!!!! You Sir are a genius. I was going to bring that exact point up. 

Yeah though. People see us as malicious and slam us for asking for certain sets, especially City sets. 

That also goes for when we recommend that something gets discontinued. 

Edited December 13, 2019 by pooda