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4 minutes ago, Itaria No Shintaku said:

You can't do this on Amazon.
Why? Because you first pay then the item becomes unavailable.
The bigger problem within bricklink is this one: instant checkout is not compulsory. It should be.

It would be great if all sellers had instant checkout.

But alongside that, it would be great if all sellers also supplied all parts that were paid for or informed buyers if parts that had been paid for were not in stock. As both a buyer and seller, I find that issue is far bigger than receiving bogus orders that do not get paid.

Making instant checkout compulsory also forces all sellers to use paypal for all orders (or whatever other payment systems BL might want to implement) which many sellers (especially in the Eurozone) would not like.

9 minutes ago, Itaria No Shintaku said:

You receive an order that's gonna be paid via IBAN? Western Union? You check the order and approve it as much as you would do with a quote!
 

IBAN is not instant, it can take a few minutes to hours, longer for international. What happens in your system if a seller says a buyer can pay with IBAN? Do the parts get removed when the seller approves the order? Or only when the seller confirms payment has been received? If the latter, then there is a chance that the seller agrees to accept IBAN, the buyer pays, then the parts sell to someone else before the seller marks the order as paid. If the former, then sellers will discriminate against new users, refusing orders if they have no feedback.

 

But again, I don't really find it is an issue. If a seller gives decent shipping tables and so the buyer has a good idea of the costs before placing the order, I find that probably less than 1 in 50 non-instant checkout orders go unpaid.

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17 minutes ago, MAB said:

It would be great if all sellers had instant checkout.

But alongside that, it would be great if all sellers also supplied all parts that were paid for or informed buyers if parts that had been paid for were not in stock. As both a buyer and seller, I find that issue is far bigger than receiving bogus orders that do not get paid.

Making instant checkout compulsory also forces all sellers to use paypal for all orders (or whatever other payment systems BL might want to implement) which many sellers (especially in the Eurozone) would not like.

IBAN is not instant, it can take a few minutes to hours, longer for international. What happens in your system if a seller says a buyer can pay with IBAN? Do the parts get removed when the seller approves the order? Or only when the seller confirms payment has been received? If the latter, then there is a chance that the seller agrees to accept IBAN, the buyer pays, then the parts sell to someone else before the seller marks the order as paid. If the former, then sellers will discriminate against new users, refusing orders if they have no feedback.

 

But again, I don't really find it is an issue. If a seller gives decent shipping tables and so the buyer has a good idea of the costs before placing the order, I find that probably less than 1 in 50 non-instant checkout orders go unpaid.

Yet you don't solve the problem that I can buy your entire shop and then either you accept a negative feedback or you have to wait until up to 21 days to have your shop available again.

Instant checkout solves this.

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2 hours ago, Itaria No Shintaku said:
  • TLG SEEMS PERCEIVED AS EVIL

This is something that I honestly always fail to see. Why are there some AFOLs who hate TLG? This may be little off topic, but I always fail to see that. Yes, in the announce and interviews they surely have been compelled to reinsure AFOLs that they are doing our good. But why should be them compelled to? Why should AFOLs need to be reinsured? Isn't TLG the one producing the stuff we love to play with? Isn't TLG so our bigger benefactor, giving us every year fresh material to play with, providing LUGs with free stuff (they are not compelled to), shipping you pieces that you may have not found in boxes for free (they are not compelled to), making special prices for their stuff if you are in a LUG with at least two different projects (they are not compelled to), having an entire plaftorm in which you can have the dream of your set becoming real (they are, again, not compelled to), and in the meantime trying to be ethical devolving part of their income to the LEGO Foundation (they are not compelled to) and spending a lot of money in research for eco friendly plastic?


TLG is NOT our benefactor. TLG is a company, pure and simple. And if they support LUGs it's because they think it will provide goodwill and advertisement. That is: more money for the TLG. Never forget that at the end of the day, it's always about money. 

I can't think of an example where a single company controlling both the primary and secondary market is a good thing. At the very best, things will simply continue. At worst, TLG will decide that they don't want a second-hand marked any more and shut Bricklink down. Will that happen? Hopefully not. But if history is any indication, companies will do whatever it takes to increase their profit. And the somewhat wishy-washy answer we've had so far aren't exactly reassuring.

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1 hour ago, Itaria No Shintaku said:

Yet you don't solve the problem that I can buy your entire shop and then either you accept a negative feedback or you have to wait until up to 21 days to have your shop available again.

Instant checkout solves this.

I don't have to wait. I simply ignore your order, and upload my backup again. Then after 7 days I NPB you, then I complete that NPB in a further 14 days if you have replied to it.

Although if you purchase the entire store, BL admins will cancel the order and block the ID once you are reported for wrecking a store so it will be quicker.

 

If this is such a big issue, how many times has this happened to you?

1 hour ago, f2k said:

I can't think of an example where a single company controlling both the primary and secondary market is a good thing. At the very best, things will simply continue. At worst, TLG will decide that they don't want a second-hand marked any more and shut Bricklink down. Will that happen? Hopefully not. But if history is any indication, companies will do whatever it takes to increase their profit. And the somewhat wishy-washy answer we've had so far aren't exactly reassuring.

I don't think they can shut down the secondary market. So they might as well have access to as much information as possible about the secondary market as they can (to increase their own sales) and by buying the biggest secondary market site, that is exactly what they have.

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15 minutes ago, MAB said:

I don't have to wait. I simply ignore your order, and upload my backup again. Then after 7 days I NPB you, then I complete that NPB in a further 14 days if you have replied to it.

Although if you purchase the entire store, BL admins will cancel the order and block the ID once you are reported for wrecking a store so it will be quicker.

If this is such a big issue, how many times has this happened to you?

I believe you missed the point. I can spoil a lot your business even with a smaller order than your whole shop. 
I mean. I have 156k pieces. Did I receive orders of 3/4k pieces? Yes I did.
Did they pay? Not always.
Was it clear that they weren't to pay? No, it wasn't.
Would it have been a good idea restock the items in the meantime, with the risk of the buyer actually paying them? No it wouldn't have.
Would the admin block the buyer? No, they will treat him/her as a normal NPB.
Did I had thousands of pieces blocked for 3 weeks? Yes I did.
Would a forced instant checkout / approval after payment would have solved the problem? Yes.

Plus, you state that an IBAN transfer can take days to fulfill. That is correct, but a receipt with a CRO is generated instantly.
The receipt is enough to grant that the person is serious. If a person is also willing to falsify a bank receipt, then I give up, but that is a little fraudulent, I could even refer to the police for that. Is that worthy for a bogus order? I don't think so.

So, with all due regards as I always like to read you on EB, I don't agree with you on this very point.

Edited by Itaria No Shintaku

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11 hours ago, Clone OPatra said:

If the outcome of this sale is that LEGO finally rereleases that stupid freaking goat, I am so in. I don't care what else happens. :sarcasm:

Yes! I want that goat! Lego, listen to this! And then give Bricklink back to us.

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6 hours ago, Itaria No Shintaku said:

I believe you missed the point. I can spoil a lot your business even with a smaller order than your whole shop. 
I mean. I have 156k pieces. Did I receive orders of 3/4k pieces? Yes I did.
Did they pay? Not always.
Was it clear that they weren't to pay? No, it wasn't.
Would it have been a good idea restock the items in the meantime, with the risk of the buyer actually paying them? No it wouldn't have.
Would the admin block the buyer? No, they will treat him/her as a normal NPB.
Did I had thousands of pieces blocked for 3 weeks? Yes I did.
Would a forced instant checkout / approval after payment would have solved the problem? Yes.

Plus, you state that an IBAN transfer can take days to fulfill. That is correct, but a receipt with a CRO is generated instantly.
The receipt is enough to grant that the person is serious. If a person is also willing to falsify a bank receipt, then I give up, but that is a little fraudulent, I could even refer to the police for that. Is that worthy for a bogus order? I don't think so.

So, with all due regards as I always like to read you on EB, I don't agree with you on this very point.

At what point did you decide they were not going to pay? Presumably if they were doing this to wreck your shop, then they were doing it anonymously so using a new account. If I have a (0) feedback buyer and they haven't paid, I typically start the NPB on day 7 and return the parts to my stock then. Sure, the buyer might pay and I run that risk, but then I could still cancel their order anyway if the parts had sold to someone else. Granted if it was 1000s of parts then re-adding them is a pain, especially if I had sold other items since as I could not go back to a back-up inventory.

Instant checkout is great when it works, but there are problems with it. For example, it fails if the dimension or weight of just one of the parts is missing and the shipping method is volume or weight bound, respectively. If I placed an order at a store and it did not go through IC because of that, and the order reverted to a quote instead of an order, and then a single part was sold out in the meantime, then the quote is cancelled. The whole cart is lost. If that happened to me as a buyer, then I think I would least favourite the store as they have wasted my time. Imagine that 4000 piece order that a buyer has taken hours putting together. If one part doesn't have the dimensions (and the shipping rate is volume bound) then they cannot use instant checkout. They place their order late at night thinking it is done. Then another of the parts goes to of stock due to another order and before you even know about the order/quote, it is automatically cancelled as you can no longer fulfill it. The buyer will rightly be annoyed, and it is down to you for not checking all your parts had dimensions when you listed them for sale. I've had IC fail on me like that many times and I end up having to wait for an invoice. But my order was safe as it was an order and not a quote.

Similarly if they did not have a shipping method set up that matched my order exactly (be it my location, volume, order value, etc), it would default to quote and there is the possibility that the parts are bought by someone else while I wait for the seller to quote. Again, I'd least favourite the store if they wasted my time if the quote got cancelled while I waited for them to process it.  There are many reasons IC fails for specific orders. Especially if it is a busy store, using quotes instead of orders runs the risk of orders being automatically cancelled and that is bad for buyers. And if it is the sellers fault for not having shipping methods for every location, for every order weight and volume, for every order value, and I lost an order because of it, then as I say, I'd least favourite them as they are time wasters.

Personally, I don't think I have enemies on BL that have purposely placed malicious orders with the intention of not paying. I have had buyers that have changed their mind and some that have not communicated at all, but I don't think I have been targeted and especially not multiple times. I imagine the amount of times an order leads to an NPB is smaller than the amount of times IC doesn't work for a particular order because it has not been set up for all occurences.

Personally, I think there are better ways of addressing it. So shorter times for NPB, and allowing a seller to cancel quicker.

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1989 Batmobile 76139 problem? is that the "Back Order"?  Rather a little back order than making XXXX sets and then only selling XX number of sets.

LEGO Brick and Pieces + Pick A Brick? B&P Works OK for me, done 2 orders this month. Oddly enohght PAB bugs for me on Firefox, but works on Edge. Only big problems with LEGO Shop page was around the time they redid and made the new system.

BrickLink? Most orders I have done have gone thru OK and error fault on deliveries have so far been very low.

1 of the smaller orders, from 1 of the most expensive, there the error % has actually been biggest.

Only 1 cancelled order. Selected item, checked freight, 1 option only as far as I remeber and then I paid by instant checkout. Later I get a mail that the item can not be sent by that method and that the freight will be +3x more. So I'll have to pay more, or cancel the order. That was too much difference. So no thank you. It was marked as " Buyer no longer wants to purchase items". Shouldn't it rather have been marked as wrong freight in shop option on item?

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6 hours ago, MKJoshA said:

Yes! I want that goat! Lego, listen to this! And then give Bricklink back to us.

It would be really odd if Lego needed BL to learn that people want more animal molds. 

I think they know that and that's why we get so many small animals in the cmf series. Like recently the flamingo and dachshund (by the way, let me use this opportunity to beg our Anglo-American friends to stop confusing themselves with the age old controversy whether it's "dashound", "dachson" or "dockson". It's either dackel or teckel. That's pronounced "duckle" and "tackle" for you. Two simple names that you can spell with ease. Please help me spread the truth about this beautiful breed of canine and call it by its proper name. And yes I am a proud owner).

 

Edited by Jacob Nion

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11 hours ago, Itaria No Shintaku said:

I believe you missed the point. I can spoil a lot your business even with a smaller order than your whole shop. 
I mean. I have 156k pieces. Did I receive orders of 3/4k pieces? Yes I did.
Did they pay? Not always.
Was it clear that they weren't to pay? No, it wasn't.

Still, be happy that BL sellers don't have to perfect either.  Buyers like me are ok to take shit from BL sellers because we know they're mostly tiny family businesses, sometimes with orders filled by kids for their pocket money.

Because yeah, when we receive orders with missing parts (which is pretty much 3/4 of the time), dirty & chewed up parts, and we had to understand stupid rules of "add 1eur per every lot when the AVG lot value is below X" and had to accept fees for anything imaginable, we still give positive feedback, something I would totally not do for normal, bigger businesses.
I'm sure buyers aren't perfect either and sellers should be ok with that too. For real fraud, the rating/report system works fine IMHO.

Out of hundreds of orders, I've left a couple of neutral feedback when sellers were real megablocks (like you ask "are you sure you really have this rare part" before you buy, you ask again "please make sure you have this rare part before sending" after your purchase, and you get a message saying "we've shipped your order. Oh and sorry but we didn't have that rare part"), but only one negative feedback to a seller that wasn't replying and hadn't shipped anything after 1.5 month. Others did the same and his shop closed, that's a nicely working system.

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5 hours ago, anothergol said:

Still, be happy that BL sellers don't have to perfect either.  Buyers like me are ok to take shit from BL sellers because we know they're mostly tiny family businesses, sometimes with orders filled by kids for their pocket money.

Because yeah, when we receive orders with missing parts (which is pretty much 3/4 of the time), dirty & chewed up parts, and we had to understand stupid rules of "add 1eur per every lot when the AVG lot value is below X" and had to accept fees for anything imaginable, we still give positive feedback, something I would totally not do for normal, bigger businesses.
I'm sure buyers aren't perfect either and sellers should be ok with that too. For real fraud, the rating/report system works fine IMHO.

Out of hundreds of orders, I've left a couple of neutral feedback when sellers were real megablocks (like you ask "are you sure you really have this rare part" before you buy, you ask again "please make sure you have this rare part before sending" after your purchase, and you get a message saying "we've shipped your order. Oh and sorry but we didn't have that rare part"), but only one negative feedback to a seller that wasn't replying and hadn't shipped anything after 1.5 month. Others did the same and his shop closed, that's a nicely working system.

Plesae don't speak as "we". You do that.
I have had over 2000 feedbacks stuff like:

  • People choosing untracked service and asking me the tracking. Then doing paypal claim when items didn't arrive because I didn't give them tracking.
  • People giving neutral feedback for no reason
  • People giving negative on retaliation after they misbehaved
  • People telling me a piece wasn't in there asking me to send it again when I double checked it was in there
  • People sending me less money than I required then stating they sent the correct amount.
  • People wanting me to cancel their orders after weeks after keeping on adding stuff.
  • People continuing infringing my T&C.
  • Arrogant people.
  • Unpolite people.
  • People asking me if I did ship the same day they paid an order. At 18pm.

Most bricklink buyers under 200 feedbacks are a russian roulette. If you aren't lucky they don't read your terms (and mine are super easy) and they want to be treated as kings.


 

11 hours ago, MAB said:

At what point did you decide they were not going to pay? Presumably if they were doing this to wreck your shop, then they were doing it anonymously so using a new account. If 

[cut]

Of course it is the seller's responsibility to address correctly every zone for IC and every part in their shop with a correct weight.
I spend time doing it and every seller should do it. If a seller doesn't do that and he's least favourited by someone, he deserved that.
Plus, in shipping tables, you should remember to add a % of bricklink errors. You may want to say in your T&C that if you pay less shipping than the buyer actually paid, you'll refund them. 

I have experienced both paying more and less shipping very very seldom.
When I paid more than required, I shut up as it was my fault and carried myself the excess.
When I paid less than required I always refunded the buyer.

Probably these are reasons because I get many positives.

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Ok, can you keep on topic? We (the forum users) are here to discuss the acquisition of Bricklink by TLG. Not your ranting and rambling about issues you have encountered on Bricklink. By all means take your topic into a new thread and I will happily move your posts related to the matter there. However, it is super frustrating for myself and probably other users, to have to wade through a lot of posts about something right off topic.

5 hours ago, Itaria No Shintaku said:
  • Arrogant people.
  • Unpolite people.

Welcome to business! I may have mentioned elsewhere, but I work for a company that fulfills FREE deliveries of medical equipment to people and the amount of crap I take on the phone from people for no actual reason (Especially as this is helpful and free equipment designed to make their life easier) or because we can't pinpoint the exact minute for drop-off time, etc and etc (the list goes on). Then you have the people who think they are the only service user so we need to drop everything for them and them alone (Rinse and repeat). I believe there are whole sites dedicated to stories like this "Not Always Right" springs to mind.

 

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10 hours ago, Itaria No Shintaku said:

People telling me a piece wasn't in there asking me to send it again when I double checked it was in there 

Yeah but again, even if you were right & they weren't, you have to be fine with that because buyers have to be as well. As I wrote, missing parts are in 3/4 of BL orders, it's just the norm. (well to be fair: it's also often the wrong parts that you get, so the seller often loses too, but by his own fault)

2000 from how many orders?

IMHO it has to be much worse for "normal" sellers/retailers, because those make a lot less mistake (only because it's their main job), while customers don't change & are probably as bad for them.
In short, I'm sure BL customers suck, but not more than everywhere else, while BL sellers do suck more (because it's just a side job, so that's excusable, but still..).


Also, remember to make everything clear & succint in your shop's terms. We have to deal with totally different rules in every shop, we have to hunt for every fine print, deal with tables that differ between term & splash pages..
And it's too often that my final bill doesn't match the terms. Of course unsurprisingly, always higher.

Edited by anothergol

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12 hours ago, Peppermint_M said:

Ok, can you keep on topic? We (the forum users) are here to discuss the acquisition of Bricklink by TLG. Not your ranting and rambling about issues you have encountered on Bricklink. By all means take your topic into a new thread and I will happily move your posts related to the matter there. However, it is super frustrating for myself and probably other users, to have to wade through a lot of posts about something right off topic.

It is not a rant or issues I have encountered myself, but known issues.
I didn't think it was off topic, I just wanted to point out that since TLG bought bricklink they can finally fix problems they have since years.
But that's ok, you're a moderator, I'll cut this now on. If someone needs to discuss about this, PM me.

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I too don't think it's off-topic to talk about BL itself & its problems, in a thread explaining why it's gonna change in a near future.

If you wanted to talk about everything you are allowed to know about the acquisition itself, this thread would be 1 post long.

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Since it's the end of the world...err bricklink as we know it... Had to place some orders before the lights go out.

In case Lego brings back pirates next year and wants to make sure they are the only game in town. 😗😁

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On 11/29/2019 at 4:32 AM, Clone OPatra said:

If the outcome of this sale is that LEGO finally rereleases that stupid freaking goat, I am so in. I don't care what else happens. :sarcasm:

:head_back:

On 11/29/2019 at 4:20 PM, MKJoshA said:

Yes! I want that goat! Lego, listen to this! And then give Bricklink back to us.

:grin:

On 11/29/2019 at 11:00 PM, Jacob Nion said:

It would be really odd if Lego needed BL to learn that people want more animal molds. 

I think they know that and that's why we get so many small animals in the cmf series. Like recently the flamingo and dachshund (by the way, let me use this opportunity to beg our Anglo-American friends to stop confusing themselves with the age old controversy whether it's "dashound", "dachson" or "dockson". It's either dackel or teckel. That's pronounced "duckle" and "tackle" for you. Two simple names that you can spell with ease. Please help me spread the truth about this beautiful breed of canine and call it by its proper name. And yes I am a proud owner).

 

I invite you all to discuss goats, dachshund (Norwegian name, I am also a proud owner) and other animals in the thread in my signature :shark:

No I do not think Lego needs BL to find out that we want more animals in general, but they may use it to find out how bad we want the different ones etc..
I just used goats since it was a obvious example, when Lego owns BL they have access to every order ever made, every search we have done etc.
With ideas they get some information since a set needs 10000 votes, but the 10000 that voted do not necessarily end up buying the set if it is made. Now Lego will know exactly how much and how many are willing to pay for every part ever made and how it varies over time. Do not tell my that is not worth more that the 3% (?) they get of every sale!

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16 hours ago, Masked Mini said:

In case Lego brings back pirates next year and wants to make sure they are the only game in town. 😗😁

Which, well. you know,... may happen...:pir-wink:

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On 11/29/2019 at 2:32 PM, Clone OPatra said:

Personally, I'm puzzled by LEGO's positioning of Bricklink as a fan community first, as if the marketplace was kind of a side note. I suppose in corporate speak Bricklink is too many things to neatly categorise, but I always viewed it as a really great fan-created and maintained reference catelogue, and a platform to buy and sell what we're all here for. The community aspects like the MOC system and forums, and the design software, seemed to me to be secondary fluff that's not really Bricklink's core function.

The AFOL design program, while cool, also didn't make much sense to me, since it turned Bricklink into an entity in itself, and not just a platform for individuals to sell things. It's as if a flea market started selling you Flea-Market branded goods from corporate Flea-Market headquarters.

Ultimately I hope LEGO doesn't get the wrong idea about what makes Bricklink important to AFOLs (though I suspect they will), and I hope they leave the marketplace and catalogue intact. If they don't, yes another platform out there will become the primary one, but the countless hours put into Bricklink's catalogue won't be easily or quickly redone.

I don't use it much these days in my second dark age but BL has always been perceived by me to be a pretty good catalogue of Lego parts, sets & minifigs, and a marketplace to purchase those things used or as new from other Lego enthusiasts. Anything else belongs elsewhere.

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We all are good english speakers. At least you are. 
But... what if TLG was really interested in doubling or quadrupling the users of BL? What should they do that bricklink never actually did?

Well, if they added just 10 languages of multi-language support (like, Japanese, Mandarin Chinese, Arabic, Hindi, Spanish, German, French, Italian, Dutch, Portuguese) which would lead in dozens new users and a lot of new transactions that would give them also more data for their market analysis.

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1 hour ago, Itaria No Shintaku said:

We all are good english speakers. At least you are. 
But... what if TLG was really interested in doubling or quadrupling the users of BL? What should they do that bricklink never actually did?

Well, if they added just 10 languages of multi-language support (like, Japanese, Mandarin Chinese, Arabic, Hindi, Spanish, German, French, Italian, Dutch, Portuguese) which would lead in dozens new users and a lot of new transactions that would give them also more data for their market analysis.

They did try to add some form of Chinese, and some of the help pages got translated. I don't read it, so I cannot say if it is any good.

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8 minutes ago, MAB said:

They did try to add some form of Chinese, and some of the help pages got translated. I don't read it, so I cannot say if it is any good.

Yeah but they have to do the entire site. 
You know, probably native english speakers will never understand this. You are very lucky. You speak the language nearly everything is written in. I may understand it's a difficult abstraction to figure out how it would be to live in a world where your language is rarely spoken, but that's the case of a lot of people. Not every person is given the mental flexibility to learn a second language. For me, for example, english is my third language, but I think I was pretty lucky because I learnt two languages when I was a kid by having two different based parents. I can easily understand, living in a country in which this happens, the problems many people have in learning a second language when they've been speaking only one for maybe 20 30 40 years. There are a horde of people ready to join bricklink but blocked by the language barrier. Should they remove it, they would make game set match, because their users would double or triplicate and the sellers would be so happy that they would forget all those paranoias about TLG acquiiring BL.

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@Itaria No Shintaku That really is a great idea; you should suggest it once the lay of the land becomes clear and clear lines of communication with TLG are established in regard to Bricklink.

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3 hours ago, leafan said:

@Itaria No Shintaku That really is a great idea; you should suggest it once the lay of the land becomes clear and clear lines of communication with TLG are established in regard to Bricklink.

Oh, but I surely will. 

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4 hours ago, Itaria No Shintaku said:

Yeah but they have to do the entire site. 
You know, probably native english speakers will never understand this. You are very lucky. You speak the language nearly everything is written in. I may understand it's a difficult abstraction to figure out how it would be to live in a world where your language is rarely spoken, but that's the case of a lot of people. Not every person is given the mental flexibility to learn a second language. For me, for example, english is my third language, but I think I was pretty lucky because I learnt two languages when I was a kid by having two different based parents. I can easily understand, living in a country in which this happens, the problems many people have in learning a second language when they've been speaking only one for maybe 20 30 40 years. There are a horde of people ready to join bricklink but blocked by the language barrier. Should they remove it, they would make game set match, because their users would double or triplicate and the sellers would be so happy that they would forget all those paranoias about TLG acquiiring BL.

Yes, it would be good to add other languages but even that can add problems too. BL is essentially a venue for individual sellers and buyers. While some orders are possible without any communication, I find often some communication is necessary for many, even if that is in a description of condition or similar. The problem then is which language should be used? If the buyer was presented the items in their own language at the time of purchase, should the seller have to communicate in the buyer's language? Or should the seller be allowed to state which language(s) they can communicate in and then it is up to the buyer to decide whether this is important or not before buying?

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