TLG acquires Bricklink

[Roebuck]

1 hour ago, MAB said:

If it does, the HP advent calendars also sold badly - I just picked some up at 60% off. 

That is something different, advent calendars loose most of its value in December 
I am sure the HP sold extremely well as usual, but shops tend to order more calendars then they can sell..
Wait and see next year, if we get a new one then you know for sure it was a bestseller

[MAB]

Just now, Roebuck said:

That is something different, advent calendars loose most of its value in December 
I am sure the HP sold extremely well as usual, but shops tend to order more calendars then they can sell..
Wait and see next year, if we get a new one then you know for sure it was a bestseller

Yeah, although the same is true for (current) movie based sets, once the movie goes from being in theaters and out of the consciousness of the buying public.

38 minutes ago, Lego David said:

How do you know that? Did you get sales data from the time they were released or something? I wouldn't be surprised if LEGO themselves didn't have that data anymore...

In terms of LEGENDS, I think he is correct and that LEGO employees have said as much in the past, more than just  fan speculation.

Personally, I don't think the modern colours are any worse than the old colours and changing, for example, old dark grey for modern DBG would really make much difference to the sales. However, the problem comes in the molds. If they replace old hinges for new ones, or change the arch designs and so on, then to me that is bigger than a slight colour change.  Of course if you need old greys to restore an old set (where BL comes in very useful) then colour changes are important. But for a newly released version of a set, less so. However, if the design needs to be changed to work around the difference of modern and old parts, then in my view they are better off forgetting the old designs, and just designing a decent new set from scratch.

 

While it is unlikely that they will re-do old sets, LEGO has been providing things like the Classic Space printed slopes, the Benny squad for army building Classic Space people. They clearly already know there is demand to do things like this and hopefully them mining data at BL will mean they continue to provide us with modern "vintage" parts if not sets.

[leafan]

3 hours ago, MAB said:

I got the impression that this sold very well, but being the smallest of the sets there were loads made. I think just about every AFOL and most LEGO-loving families I know has at least one copy of the set.

They sold well in the UK for sure. They initially sold out until the first re-stock.

I'd say discount doesn't equal poor sales.

[MAB]

35 minutes ago, leafan said:

They sold well in the UK for sure. They initially sold out until the first re-stock.

I'd say discount doesn't equal poor sales.

Yeah, I sold probably 75+ yellow, white and pink astronauts in the first couple of months after release (on BL). The Benny's took a bit longer to shift but still went.

[TeriXeri]

LEGENDS being exclusive greatly limited their reach.

Maybe internet shopping was bigger in the USA compared to Europe at the time, because many people only even knew their LEGO sets from their local toyshop yearly lego catalogs or the little product booklets that came in the sets themselves.

Consider the fact that LEGO only just now opened their 1st physical stores in NL in 2019, and many countries don't even have one yet.

If LEGACY Ninjago proves succesful I can imagine that LEGO might try that for other themes, nostalgia is a pretty big marketing factor trend right now, just look at all those remakes/remasters that are going on.

Edited December 4, 2019 by TeriXeri

[jonwil]

I wish they had done a reissue of a Space set in the line, that would have been a must-buy. But they never did (even though they did reissues in Pirates, Castle, Train, Technic, Town, Western and other themes)

Heck, I would still be interested in a re-issue of some old Space set (although the Ice Planet sets require too many dead molds for that to be viable unfortunately)

 

[koalayummies]

One upside for Bricklink is that they're getting a lot more traffic from me ever since BrickSET has forced a member login just to view Lego set part inventories.

Why force a login in order to view what the other site provides without one. Or is this the beginning of the end for simply viewing what parts came in what set.

[anothergol]

On 12/5/2019 at 12:45 AM, koalayummies said:

One upside for Bricklink is that they're getting a lot more traffic from me ever since BrickSET has forced a member login just to view Lego set part inventories.

I've always used Bricker for that, because Bricker sorts by date. So when I'm making a MOC, missing a part and I wanna find which set I own to steal it from, I'm not wasting my time browsing sets out of the range of years I've been buying Lego.

That beats BL, but I've never used Brickset for that, so I can't compare.

On 12/4/2019 at 11:43 PM, jonwil said:

I wish they had done a reissue of a Space set in the line, that would have been a must-buy.

While I'm all for it and I've bought several of the spaceman battlepack from Movie 2 (in which helmets are simply not as good, exposing a nasty mold mark at the top), I'm more for new sets like Benny's ship.

I bought & opened a new (tiny) set from 1983. And when I opened it, it was something, a set that was basically released when I was a kid & waited for nearly 40 years to be opened. A re-release just can't bring the same feel.
 

[icm]

Well, I didn't believe for a minute that TLG wasn't going to change things at Bricklink and make it less useful as an AFOL marketplace.  This morning they announced that downloads are being disabled on all Studio models that use any third party IP.  So that means no more downloading digital Star Destroyers and Batmobiles from that site.  It's easy to see why they're changing that, but it's still disappointing.  There's still Rebrickable and Bricksafe, but they don't have as much content as the Studio gallery in the genres that interest me, and their interfaces are harder to use.  What's the next shoe to drop, I wonder?

[Masked Mini]

13 minutes ago, icm said:

that use any third party IP.

Well, for starters anything else to do with 3rd party IPs is in danger.
And it's looking a lot more likely they will reduce bricklink to strictly Lego issued bricks.
No more compatible custom parts, maybe no more mods of TLG bricks such as chrome, custom pad prints.

[thenightman89]

How disheartening.  I loved being able to download those studio files to view techniques - for example, someone made an awesome micro Razor Crest ship (from the Mandalorian). And soon enough you won't be able to get the file! 

Edited December 13, 2019 by thenightman89

[Dhivael]

27 minutes ago, Masked Mini said:

And it's looking a lot more likely they will reduce bricklink to strictly Lego issued bricks.

[emphasis mine]

Where are you seeing that? So far all I've seen is idle speculation on the part of worried AFOLs that this will be the case. So far TLG has said that they're planning to be hands-off on this. I'm still hopeful that they won't crack down quite that far.  

[Hoth Rebel]

Dear Designer,

We love the creativity that the Studio Gallery fosters amongst all of our designers. There have been over 17,000 creations uploaded by all of you! Many of these designs are incredible original creations; however, we have noticed a number of submissions  in the Studio Gallery that are Intellectual Property (IP) related subjects.

In order to allow you to continue to show off all of your creations in the Studio Gallery, we will be setting designs that are IP infringing to Display Only. This means that all of your images and description will be visible, but the Studio file cannot be downloaded, and the parts list will not be available.

If any of your designs in the Studio Gallery are related to IP subjects, we ask that you please go ahead and switch them to Display Only.

How to switch your design to Display Only

Navigate to My Studio and click the name of your design. Uncheck the “Allow downloads” checkbox, and then click Save at the bottom of the page.

Screenshot of My Studio page

Thank you for understanding, and we hope to continue to see your wonderful designs in the Studio Gallery!

• The BrickLink Team

--------------------------------------

Here is the information. I found it on Reddit. 

IMO this is understandable because LEGO needs to protect itself from any kind of trouble with a IP holder, but this is exactly why I wasn't fond of them buying BL in the first place. If they can only show it it's like the Lego Ideas set 2.0. I know you can still get original content, but this wasn't a problem if BL stayed independent. 

It's a matter of time before they change other things in their favor. 

[Masked Mini]

3 hours ago, Dhivael said:

Where are you seeing that?

I'm not. It's...

 

3 hours ago, Dhivael said:

idle speculation on the part of worried AFOLs

based on my fears and news like the above decision to remove 3rd party stuff from Stud.IO.

And some thoughts on the realities of TLG's licensing agreements. Consider the royalties for instance, TLG pays a cut of each set to the IP holder. Lucasfilms/Disney in particular are rabid about that. It's part of the reason we don't get licensed parts in BnP, complicates the accounting. If Bricklink is legally considered to be the retail outlet as opposed to say the owner of a fleamarket then the royalty agreements grip there too.
Easier to ban licensed bricks than to try and catalogue them separately for the purposes of accurately tracking fractions of cents that need to be remitted as royalties. Royalties that I'm sure are not boilerplate across all the different IPs at that.

Speaking of Lucasfilms, Hasbro has the old Kenner exclusive license to SW action figures. They are rabid about protecting their "turf" to the point that TLG has to avoid selling just minifigs as they can be considered an action figure when stood alone from brick builds (no Star Wars CMF and why the advent calendar has so many brick builds and why battlepacks always have a vehicle). That's an infringement of Hasbro's license. Not all of this may be correct. I am neither a lawyer nor a business insider. But assume for a moment that I'm on the general trail here.
By extension Bricklink is now part of TLG in a legal sense.
TLG contracts and licenses now apply to Bricklink.
TLG is not themselves violating say Hasbro's action figure license BUT they are providing a haven (Bricklink) for sellers that sell just minifigs.
That could be argued as breaking the licensing agreements with extra steps.
Hasbro may feel the need to sue TLG to maintain their license exclusivity. And while they may or may not have legal standing that is a suit that TLG could simply want to avoid... by instituting their BnP policy, effectively forbidding (re)sale of licensed minifigs and bricks.

When it comes to TLG removing custom compatible parts is simply protecting their chosen brand image. Not need for tinfoil hats here.

Custom printed bricks often, but not always, are actually infringing on IP. Whether that is Marvel/DC Heroes and Villains TLG hasn't gotten around to or people copying TLG IP such as new tiles/torsos with -tron logos. Slam dunk case for removal right there. Protection of TLG IP and TLG from IP holder law suits.

Edited December 13, 2019 by Masked Mini

[anothergol]

3 hours ago, thenightman89 said:

How disheartening.  I loved being able to download those studio files to view techniques - for example, someone made an awesome micro Razor Crest ship (from the Mandalorian). And soon enough you won't be able to get the file! 

That leaves Rebrickable (who ever cared about MOCs on BL anyway?).. until Lego buys it

[Gorilla94]

I am no lawyer but if Lego could be attacked for giving people the possibility to trade licenced action figures... wouldn't be ebay or amazon be affected by that, too? I don't see a difference.

Edited December 13, 2019 by Gorilla94

[Masked Mini]

6 minutes ago, Gorilla94 said:

I am no lawyer but if Lego could be attacked for giving people the possibility to trade licenced action figures... wouldn't be ebay or amazon be affected by that, too? I don't see a difference.

Neither Ebay nor Amazon actually manufacture a product. Both are firmly Marketplace owners.
Lego would be both a manufacturer, bound by existing licensing agreements, AND a Marketplace owner.
A suit could attack the angle of TLG circumventing the licensing agreements through their Marketplace.
I'm not saying it's a GOOD legal argument. Quite often corporate entities make decisions simply to preempt a possible suit, as the cost to go to discovery or beyond for a dismissal can be a significant cost.

Edited December 13, 2019 by Masked Mini

[GoldVillage]

Bricklink is down for anyone else?

404 Not Found

---

nginx/1.16.1

[Masked Mini]

Up for me.

hmmm new ToS.

1. reproduce, publish, display, distribute, transmit or facilitate the reproduction, publication, display, distribution or transmission of any content (including but not limited to images, content, models, designs, and build instructions) that infringes, violates or misappropriates any patent, design, trademark, trade secret, copyright or other intellectual property right, or any rights of publicity, privacy or any other proprietary rights of any party, and you agree that we may remove any such content that we believe, in our sole discretion, might so infringe, violate or misappropriate rights of others;
2. display, offer for sale, or sell any content or item (including without limitation models, designs or build instructions) that infringes, violates or misappropriates any rights of a third party;

Items for Sale:

If you are a registered seller on the Site, you agree to comply with the following rules for selling. We reserve the right to delete without notice any items listed in your store on the Site that in our judgement do not comply with these rules. Repeated violations of these rules may result in the suspension of your selling privileges.

1. LEGO Brand Only: All items listed for sale must be LEGO brand products unless they fall into either of the two categories listed below – 6. 2.5 (Custom Sets) or 6.2.6 (Non LEGO Items). Other brands of building toys are not permitted.
2.  

Modified Parts: All parts listed in your store must be genuine LEGO parts in their original, unmodified condition. Custom printed, engraved, chromed, or painted parts are not permitted.

 

Custom Sets: Custom sets or instructions may be listed, provided they do not infringe on any intellectual property rights, including those of the LEGO Group. Custom sets may not contain modified parts or non LEGO parts such as lighting kits or electric motors.

So there we go. Guess my fears were not without merit even if my reasoning had a hole somewhere.

[icm]

Also in 8.2:

Quote

You warrant the content you submit to the Site will not result in BrickLink's infringement of any intellectual property right or other right of a third party.

And in 8.4:

Quote

 

Your Design does not contain and is not based on any third party copyrighted material, or material that is subject to third party proprietary rights (including trademarks and other intellectual property rights).

Your Designs must abide by legal constraints: We are not obligated to evaluate any Design submission for license conflicts, including without limitation because there are too many potential issues and we cannot know when a particular Design or model will go for sale. However, listings may be removed by us at any time if legal issues arise or a third party makes an allegation regarding Your Design. To avoid this, you should do your own research for potential conflicts before submitting a Design.

 

And in 14:

Quote

You hereby grant to BrickLink an irrevocable, worldwide, royalty-free, non-exclusive, assignable, and sub-licensable right and license, for the duration of applicable legal protection of any intellectual property right attached to the content, to use, modify and translate as necessary, reproduce, publish, communicate and display such content in any manner as BrickLink deems appropriate in relation to the operation of the Site. You hereby waive your moral rights in the content, to the extent necessary to give effect to the above license.

And in 22:

Quote

 

If ... (iii) any contributions, actions or omissions by you in connection with your access to, receipt or use of the Site, or any design, MOC or other content provided by you violates, infringes or misappropriates any intellectual property, publicity, privacy or other rights of any person or entity, and results in BrickLink incurring any liabilities, damages, losses, costs and expenses (including without limitation attorneys’ fees and court costs), then you agree to reimburse BrickLink and its affiliates from all such liabilities, damages, losses, costs and expenses.

If a third party sues BrickLink for any of Section 1 (i) – (iii) above, BrickLink reserves the right to control the defense and settlement of such third party lawsuit, and you agree to reimburse BrickLink for the cost of the defense, including, but not limited to, reasonable and documented attorneys’ fees and expert witness fees. 

This Section 22 shall survive any termination of your account or these Terms. 

 

 

In the transition FAQ:

Quote

 

6. Will anything change for BrickLink sellers?

The LEGO Group has been clear that it won’t interfere with how sellers operate or the healthy competition that exists in the marketplace. It sees BrickLink as a complementary service to its own parts selling services.

 

 

Bricklink has been very cagey about the transition so far.  Recall that the initial release of the transition FAQ had only three items, none of which said anything at all!  In the latest release, they say that Lego won't interfere with "healthy competition in the marketplace."  Since the Studio gallery isn't in the Marketplace proper, they can clamp down on IP-based MOCs without "interfering with the Marketplace," even though it really does make a big difference in the buying patterns of users who want to purchase parts for those MOCs from the Marketplace.  So Lego is saying now that they feel free to interfere in the fan community via Bricklink in any way whatsoever except for the basic means by which sellers operate.  I'm no lawyer, but it looks to me like the only thing protected by that language is the user interface for listing items for sale in the Marketplace, and even that is open to change via improvements and upgrades, since it's the core functionality of the website.

 

In section 14, Bricklink claims to have rights to your uploaded MOCs, which then means by extension that if those MOCs infringe IP they're claiming to have the right to infringe IP through those MOCs, which in turn means they have to ban those MOCs.  Way back when Studio was first released, some people warned that Bricklink's claim to limited rights to anything built in Studio and uploaded to the Gallery would cause serious problems later; today's action fulfills those warnings.  I don't usually read website T&Cs, so I can't directly compare these to the prior versions, but from the timing it's clear that this change came because Lego bought the company.

[Masked Mini]

Excellent catch! I missed the part about being liable for any legal expenses incurred by Bricklink.
Time to move all MOCs off that site folks. Corporate suits can run six figures before discovery is complete.
Sauce? My last company (Fortune 500) would attempt to settle any filed claim under 200k $US because initial legal fees would come to $US 250k.

[Mestari]

6 hours ago, Dhivael said:

[emphasis mine]

Where are you seeing that? So far all I've seen is idle speculation on the part of worried AFOLs that this will be the case. So far TLG has said that they're planning to be hands-off on this. I'm still hopeful that they won't crack down quite that far.  

So there you have it. We no longer can buy custom parts. Thank you LEGO...

"Modified Parts: All parts listed in your store must be genuine LEGO parts in their original, unmodified condition. Custom printed, engraved, chromed, or painted parts are not permitted."

[Peppermint_M]

Just placed an order for a batch of customs, here is hoping it all goes through. 

So, looks like I wasn't being over the top or pessimistic with my predictions.

I am a moderator, so I can totally say: TOLD YOU SO. 

Srsly man.

[Grover]

I am slightly disappointed, but not surprised.  I find it somewhat hypocritical that they encourage people to decorate those expensive wooden minifigures by painting them and then disallow selling of bricks modified in anyway (such as by painting).  I would be fine with it if they said that you are not allowed to resell bricks with profane pictures, pornography, racial hatred, defamation to TLG, etc., but I am disappointed that they won't allow custom prints, which includes innocuous and fun decorations like "Happy Birthday Billy" etc. as well as non-offensive and interesting pieces, such as the chromed figures.

I will be curious to see how they handle reselling of old licenses that they do not hold any longer, such as the old NBA theme.  While retailers are allowed to sell old licensed merchandise, they are not bound by the same contractual obligations as the original seller.  It could be that the original license allowed TLG to profit from their logo, with royalties, for a limited time span.  Resale of these items, if TLG makes a cut as from Bricklink, could create legal headaches.

[Lego David]

TLG lied to us. When they first announced the purchase, they said they won't change anything. Yet here we are now, when they supposedly have the right to delete any items sold that aren't official LEGO parts without notice. And they also say that 

8 hours ago, Masked Mini said:

Repeated violations of these rules may result in the suspension of your selling privileges.

Great Job LEGO! Your fans just lost all the trust they had in you.