Political correctness and Lego

[astral brick]

Inspired by a very interesting article on Brickset – “Reduced Focus Upon Traditional Themes”, Capnrex101, 22 November 2019 – I would like to share a thought that crossed my mind.

What if political correctness was the main responsible of the situation depicted in the article?

Let’s analyse the so-called traditional themes.

Space: guns, laser cannons, missiles or, better said, conflicts. Blacktron against Futuron and then Space Police, that is human people fighting.

Castle: swords, spears, catapults, sieges and clashes between Crusaders and Black Falcons.

Pirates: not loveable rogues but, historically, killers and thieves, battled by the Imperial Guard, with the use of sabers pistols and bombards.

Objection! The traditional topics were simply taken over by similar conflict-based ones, such as Pirates of the Caribbean, Lord of the Rings, Star Wars. However, overlooking the (intriguing) considerations regarding licenses prevalence over in-house production, the main difference with past themes is the fantasy element.

Therefore, in order to be acceptable by today’s standards, current sets can’t show any realistic dispute or, at least, there should be some imaginary factor to tone it down, thus the replacement function of the aforementioned themes, and maybe the reason why the recent Blacktron minifigure from Series 19 has become an alien and the pirates of the upcoming Pirate Bay are defending themselves against an invisible enemy (the progress?).

Please think of the children! Hence only politically correct wars have the green light in Lego universe, parents would be happy, sales and marketing even happier.

Unfortunately this reasoning implies a relevant heterogony of ends, which arises when a child may think that a battle between human beings is wrong, but it is legitimate to fight an alien, who is, etymologically, someone different than him, in terms of race, nationality, beliefs, orientations, census.

Tolerated side-effects of this policy, as long as the profits increase.

[Toastie]

1 hour ago, astral brick said:

Tolerated side-effects of this policy, as long as the profits increase.

Oh truly yes.

I'd put it even differently: Political correctness is - just that. Politics changes - correctness as well. As far as history tells us. I'd go with: Do it or leave it. Whether a movie or movie company makes dying, fighting, getting injured so much easier (albeit it is reality: People die in everyday violence - or in the numerous wars on the planet going on now) or not: Do you take that on or not? It is your choice. The Great Brick War ... Why on earth is that ... happening?

When I was a kid, I was building rifles I saw in "Western" movies. "Shot" people and they faked dying. It really depends on time and your perspective.

Personally, I'd love to see nothing of that crap using toys. And particularly not using LEGO. It feels sort of ... misplaced. But that is only me. I really don't like movies on YT showing two crashing trains - with XX.X million views. It has been like that and this and that. I know. I find it more intriguing though, when the bricks actually do something or look like something - and are not used to show what is happening when you crash them. With a minifig standing up in the end, claiming that nobody was hurt.

For me, it doesn't fit - not in the world and the humongous tasks we are facing. Let's build - but not crash or kill.

Just my personal view, not meant to be offensive. Just do what you want. Really.

Best;
Thorsten

 

 

 

 

[koalayummies]

Should link to the original article for context: https://brickset.com/article/47047/ten-things-in-ten-years-reduced-focus-upon-traditional-themes

[hagridshut]

2 hours ago, astral brick said:

What if political correctness was the main responsible of the situation depicted in the article?

Objection! The traditional topics were simply taken over by similar conflict-based ones, such as Pirates of the Caribbean, Lord of the Rings, Star Wars. However, overlooking the (intriguing) considerations regarding licenses prevalence over in-house production, the main difference with past themes is the fantasy element.

I don't believe that "political correctness" has anything to do with the decline of traditional LEGO themes, nor do I believe that fantasy elements had anything to do with the decline either.  

As a child, I thought that the Castle theme was fantasy.  Several of the sets included glow-in-the-dark Ghost mini-figures.  There were also some sets that had a blue wizard with a white beard in the 1990's.  The use of magicians, the supernatural, and green dragons were all indicators that the theme was based on fiction rather than reality. 

Space was similarly not that realistic.  The ships looked nothing like actual spacecraft of the era.  Also, the conflicts between the different space themes were fairly mild in that they were generally limited to theft and espionage.  Specifically, I remember Blacktron II plotting to steal Ice Planet satellites, and a Spyrius commercial I found on YouTube centered around Spyrians trying (and failing) to steal items from Unitron.  It wasn't until the 2000's that Space became noticeably more violent:  one of the Mars themes centered around armed conflict between human colonists and Martians, and the 2009 Space Police III theme was much more militaristic than its predecessors.

IMO, the growth high volume of licensed rather than in-house themes is purely driven by market demands.  

Kids grow up reading Harry Potter and watching the movies.  Movies like Frozen and the Marvel series are a huge driver of demand for toys.  With only so much engineering, product development, advertising, and other budget to go around, LEGO group is naturally going to place more focus on what keeps their business afloat.  

Edited November 25, 2019 by hagridshut

[Littleworlds]

3 hours ago, astral brick said:

Inspired by a very interesting article on Brickset – “Reduced Focus Upon Traditional Themes”, Capnrex101, 22 November 2019 – I would like to share a thought that crossed my mind.

What if political correctness was the main responsible of the situation depicted in the article?

(...)

Well, your post is just that. Its a what if. Pure conjecture and a perspective on 30 or so years of developement of the Toy purely from the perspective of political correctness, disregarding all the other factors that influence what kids are playing, in the past or today.

Actually, it also seems that the sets today are more conflict- and certainly more action-based than in the 80s. From that perspective, old Lego was more 'political correct', whatever that term means in any given situation. 

[Mylenium]

11 hours ago, astral brick said:

What if political correctness was the main responsible of the situation depicted in the article?

Not really. Of all the reasons I can think of why LEGO might be screwing e.g. with historical themes, that would be the least relevant. As the others already pointed out, times are simply changing. That and of course there's that old argument about LEGO possibly not understanding or not caring for certain markets and cultural contexts...

Mylenium

[MAB]

I don't think it is anything to do with the political correctness and war. I think it is essentially down to advertising. Movie franchises sell toys. LEGO knows that.

[howitzer]

At least Classic Space and M:Tron were thematically centered around exploration instead of conflict. But something to consider is that in order to sell the sets, you'll need to include a story with it. For many themes the story has indeed been built around conflict, like with Classic Pirates and Classic Castle but there has been numerous other themes with no conflict, like majority of Town/City and it's many spinoffs like Paradisa. And then there's of course the hugely popular Friends, which is an example of a modern series which doesn't rely on conflict-based story nor licensing.

It's  probably mostly about licensed themes taking over similar non-licensed ones, because having both would eat much more resources in product development and marketing, while competing for essentially the same audience. I think political correctness is a complete non-issue here.

[ArneNielsen]

1 hour ago, howitzer said:

Friends, which is an example of a modern series which doesn't rely on conflict-based story

Maybe - but the minidolls still had Elves and DC Super Heroes subseries. And those were indeed based on conflict

[Mylenium]

4 hours ago, howitzer said:

Friends, which is an example of a modern series which doesn't rely on conflict-based story nor licensing.

Mmh, unless, that is, Mia, Olivia, Stephanie etc. are having a war of the b*tches behind the scenes... *lol*

Mylenium

[TeriXeri]

It's not so much PC that's in the current and newer themes, it's that pretty much each recent theme is based on some form of TV Show, has an app, kids' books or a magazine aimed at kids to go alongside it.

Just speaking of non-licensed themes here.

Themes with named characters existed to a lesser extent with Pirates and Adventurers way back in the 80s and 90s, but the focus wasn't as wide as it's now, and it's not simply the fact the characters have names.

2013 Castle and 2015 Pirates were short lived, and had little to no large media attention in comparison.

Compared to the current run of themes 2013-now, like Friends, Ninjago, Hidden Side and former themes like Chima, Nexo Knights, Elves, all of which at least has one of those features, often multiple :

• TV Show
• App
• Books
• Magazines
• Merchandise like clocks, keyrings, dolls, toy weapons etc.

Even City got official named characters now, and a TV show with LEGO City Adventures, and has more frequent magazines in 2019 (12 instead of 6 this year in NL at least)

 

I'm not saying that the LEGO sets of such themes are bad, but I think the chances of getting "Classic" themes without much media are either going to be very short lived (like 2013 Castle / 2015 Pirates) , or not exist at all.

IDEAS and the recent aquisition of LEGO Bricklink might give LEGO a better picture of demand for more "Classic" themes hopefully, beyond just sales numbers of current sets, they can have data on how older themes circulate.

Also as an AFOL, I'm not saying that books and magazines are a bad thing, I have multiple Nexo Knight books and Collected all the magazines 2016-2018, and now City Magazines, however, I see those as additional LEGO content, not 100% required to enjoy a Castle or City theme.

 

I just hope that themes like Classic and Creator are staying around and possibly improved. 

I could see Creator being one way to give us more Pirate/Castle/Space sets once in a while without needing an entire theme dedicated to it. Besides IDEAS.

I really liked the 60th anniversary LEGO sets as well, as they did actually include throwbacks to Pirates/Castle/Space.

Edited November 26, 2019 by TeriXeri

[Peppermint_M]

2 hours ago, TeriXeri said:

Themes with named characters existed to a lesser extent with Pirates and Adventurers way back in the 80s and 90s

Yep, and there were games that featured the characters, from LEGO Racers and LEGO Island to LEGO Football and LEGO Chess. Not to mention the Alpha Team and Rock Raiders Tie-in titles.

Going backwards, Fabuland had story books and jigsaws. 

I would say that tie-in products have been around a long time, it is just the format that has changed!

[The Brick Boss]

Movie based themes help Lego. That's why they do them. Nothing to do with political correctness. 

Edited November 26, 2019 by pooda

[MAB]

19 hours ago, TeriXeri said:

I'm not saying that the LEGO sets of such themes are bad, but I think the chances of getting "Classic" themes without much media are either going to be very short lived (like 2013 Castle / 2015 Pirates) , or not exist at all.

 

Would it actually matter if they brought back a classic theme such as Castle but had tie-in cartoons, comics and books to go alongside them. It wouldn't really bother me if the characters were named and they had stories written about them. I can choose not to follow them if I so wish but still buy the sets for the parts and minifigures I want. Now if they had name tags on (like a lot of the Emmet minifigures did) then that would restrict their use for me, but if they were otherwise generic knights or soldiers, with some heraldry, then they would not be any different to other unnamed characters, even if LEGO named them as Barry, Gary and Larry on the box.

[TeriXeri]

Tie-in content doesn't bother me if the sets are done right, I even collected many of it for Nexo Knights in the form of multiple books, magazines, and used the app and watched the show.

The names can easily be changed, as easily as you can swap heads/hair/torsos/legs.

2009,2010,2011,2013 Castle had multiple buildings/location sets in each of those waves. If they can make a Castle theme like that again, with multiple actual buildings/locations, instead of just having a vehicle for each "hero" again, I don't mind what name/color/app/books are made for that theme.

Nexo Knights was still a good theme, for 2.5 years , it didn't have a whole lot of castle location sets, the ones that were made were great, but seeing more locations would always be nice. 

Ninjago shows it can be done to have a good balance between action/vehicle/mech/creature and location/structures.

Edited November 27, 2019 by TeriXeri

[astral brick]

On 11/26/2019 at 9:13 AM, hagridshut said:

I don't believe that "political correctness" has anything to do with the decline of traditional LEGO themes, nor do I believe that fantasy elements had anything to do with the decline either.

Julia Goldin: "[...] From that perspective, you would not see BrickArms and guns and things that are potentially particularly connected to things like warfare and violence, which is something that we decided as the LEGO Group we would never support. [...]"

Excerpt from Julia Goldin interview, The Brothers Brick, 26 November 2019.

[TeriXeri]

Speaking of guns.

What about this piece used as a gun (with some added pieces on the barrel) in a LEGO Movie 2 set , and earlier in an Ultra Agents set in 2014 (also with some extra pieces on the barrel)

LEGO calls it SUBMACHINE GUN Ø3.2 SHAFT

So LEGO adds a few rounded parts at the end of the gun, and suddenly it's a fantasy weapon and not a "gun" ? 

I'm just naming the cases of LEGO's own themes here.

 

Licensed themes seem to have different ruleset where it's okay if a figure uses such pieces directly.

Example 2017 Star Wars calendar : 

 

Edited November 27, 2019 by TeriXeri

[hagridshut]

39 minutes ago, astral brick said:

Julia Goldin: "[...] From that perspective, you would not see BrickArms and guns and things that are potentially particularly connected to things like warfare and violence, which is something that we decided as the LEGO Group we would never support. [...]"

Excerpt from Julia Goldin interview, The Brothers Brick, 26 November 2019.

I'd consider that hypocrisy rather than political correctness.  

[Toastie]

43 minutes ago, astral brick said:

Julia Goldin: "[...] From that perspective, you would not see BrickArms and guns and things that are potentially particularly connected to things like warfare and violence, which is something that we decided as the LEGO Group we would never support. [...]"

This.

It is so overly cynical that I cannot believe it. "... never support". I have a whole box with LEGO pieces labeled "weapons" including the red 3 stick dynamite accessory. Oh, that is just for blowing holes into the sky and let the sun shine in, I know. This is so much of a lie - I'll never get that. This is the reason why I do not believe at all that business bullsh*t talk they are currently cranking out. Man. Take any freshmen business text book and you will find it right there.

LEGO is a truly wonderful toy. Operated by a multi-billion corporate company trying theme parks, clothing, and what not in addition to their little plastic bricks. Why don't they have the guts to just put it right? Cowards. They should get their act together and not talk trash. There are LEGO guns, LEGO cannons, LEGO knifes, swords, sabers ... - their interpretation of a Neanderthal inhabitant has a mace in the hands. To do what? Play the drums? My goodness.

Best
Thorsten

       

Edited November 27, 2019 by Toastie
The stupid big-brother editing thing changed bullsh*t to megablocks. That is bullsh*t as well. Why is it allowed to use non-LEGO brand words on a LEGO fan site for cursing?

[The Brick Boss]

But truthfully speaking, can we really say that Lego has held up to that belief of not having war related themes of good versus evil? I mean, we did have Knights Kingdom and Castle, which was basically war in the dark ages. Then we go to the future with Alien Conquest, which symbolizes war. Its fictional, but it still is war. Then there is the present day in City. A war between cops and crooks! No bows or arrows needed. Just banks, money and crooks in the same area. 

"Hate" and "Animosity" is what is actually helping Lego to survive because little boys love to battle, mostly playing the hero though sometimes being a villain. I think they should abolish that. 

Edited November 28, 2019 by pooda

[dr_spock]

The simple weapon test.  If you can see the particular weapon used in current real life war conflicts such as Syria,Ukraine, etc.,  then it is pretty much no go.  Also if some parent complain about your AFOL Superheroes display in a LEGO Store, then they call you in fix the weapon issue.  It's basically LEGO® management's discretion what they permit or don't in their LEGO® world.

 

[Peppermint_M]

To be fair, the dynamite pieces were used in the context of rock blasting or safe cracking when they were introduced. I like explosions, but the kinds that are fireworks and rock blasting or planned demolitions. I would not agree to having them used in a context to maim and kill, that is not good or enjoyable.

Fantasy, fictional, pretend "battle" between what can be interpreted or presented as an abstract "non-human" enemy is much more palatable than modern warfare and violence. There has not even been any kind of theme based on conflicts from the past 200 years, bar the Pirates and the Red/Blue coat navy and a very old Western Fort. 

19 hours ago, Toastie said:

Neanderthal inhabitant has a mace in the hands

Club, it is a club. The Caricature of a Cave Man gives him a big wooden club to scare off Saber Tigers and Dinosaurs. Of course, a fantastical thing as Cavemen would not be around Dinosaurs at all really.

As for the Warfare/Violence thing; That looks clunky phrased by the press officer from LEGO. Fantasy Violence against non-human or in fantastical situations are fine. Modern, reality grounded war, terrorism and crime are not present in LEGO. The City police do not pack heat, they do not have a SWAT unit. The robbers do not carry firearms, there is not "Suspicious package" in LEGO City set. 

Sure, the spooky ghost bikers have spooky ghost pistols, but no one stands any chance of being menaced by a ghost biker, that is fantasy.

Oh, and the censor thing? It is in place to prevent foul language. This is an English Language forum and we want to keep things civil and at least trying to be polite, so that sort of language is auto-removed. Megablocks was an amusing substitution when the forum was founded over a decade ago. If it is really a problem, feel free to bring up the subject in the Forum Information section.

[Toastie]

11 minutes ago, Peppermint_M said:

If it is really a problem

Noway is that a problem - I tried, but I could not get a proper emoji like in the comment window. Plus: I am getting adopted by this modern world ... back in the days, it was ;-) wasn't it? Oh well. Tried to be funny but that did not work out, I guess.

I was more resorting to this thing: https://www.bricklink.com/v2/catalog/catalogitem.page?P=24084#T=C&C=77. I am living very close (about 1/2 mile away) to the Neanderthal along with a local museum telling us they actually were not running around all day and killed everything in their way but were rather family oriented and caring. So that thing is less of a club and more of a - well - weapon. But old. Which is good. Because when it is more than 100 years old, it is good. That's what I learned

Best
Thorsten