Will Hidden Side Age Well?

[Lego David]

20 hours ago, OwenMistika said:

Hidden Side had two waves! Monster fighters only had one 

I'd personally much rather have a single wave that's perfect rather than a lot of waves that aren't. 

[Digger of Bricks]

15 hours ago, ShadowWolfHount said:

On 11/30/2019 at 6:26 AM, OwenMistika said:

Yikes! David and Lucarex have said so much on this but I’ll leave it brief:

Hidden Side had two waves! Monster fighters only had one 

Yeah. And besides, isn't Monster fighters meant to be a one and done type of theme like Dino and Pharaoh's Quest?

Just have a single wave or year and nothing else.

Well, that isn't to say that Monster Fighters in concept had potential beyond a single wave, as I would've been quite interested to see the theme move on beyond stereotypical Universal-type monsters and more towards something Lovecraftian or Noir flavored... 

[Fenghuang0296]

10 hours ago, Lego David said:

I'd personally much rather have a single wave that's perfect rather than a lot of waves that aren't. 

And Monster Fighters was perfect? Because personally, it was decidedly not. 

[Lego David]

12 minutes ago, Feng-huang0296 said:

And Monster Fighters was perfect?

At the very least, it's a lot better than Hidden Side.

[Digger of Bricks]

46 minutes ago, Feng-huang0296 said:

And Monster Fighters was perfect? Because personally, it was decidedly not. 

The one particular sore spot I have with Monster Fighters is with the protagonists' vehicular builds, as they all have their own awkward elements about them that cut them short from perfection. For instance, in 9468 Vampyre Castle, McHammer looks like he's sitting atop his roadster rather than within it. 

[ShadowWolfHount]

6 hours ago, Digger of Bricks said:

Well, that isn't to say that Monster Fighters in concept had potential beyond a single wave, as I would've been quite interested to see the theme move on beyond stereotypical Universal-type monsters and more towards something Lovecraftian or Noir flavored... 

While having things outside of those monsters we already see would be great. I think Monster Side (along with other themes that had a single wave or year) was the best to not overstay it's welcome, as I think many themes are best as having short waves rather than long ones.

[Digger of Bricks]

2 minutes ago, ShadowWolfHount said:

While having things outside of those monsters we already see would be great. I think Monster Side (along with other themes that had a single wave or year) was the best to not overstay it's welcome, as I think many themes are best as having short waves rather than long ones.

Well, sure, though I don't think that could be said for every theme or premise. For instance, would the original Adventurers theme have been better as a one-and-done endeavor, just sticking to Egypt like Pharaoh's Quest had done? 

[ShadowWolfHount]

I didn't say that every themes are best as one-and-done, only the ones that were set to be that, and that they should considering going back to that with 'some' future original themes.

[Digger of Bricks]

37 minutes ago, ShadowWolfHount said:

I didn't say that every themes are best as one-and-done, only the ones that were set to be that, and that they should considering going back to that with 'some' future original themes.

Well, they could've done it right and had one-off themes like Atlantis, Pharaoh's Quest, Dino, and Monster Fighters under one unified reboot of Adventurers instead... 

[Lyichir]

49 minutes ago, Digger of Bricks said:

Well, they could've done it right and had one-off themes like Atlantis, Pharaoh's Quest, Dino, and Monster Fighters under one unified reboot of Adventurers instead... 

Nah. The Atlantis sets’ aesthetic would not work at all for Adventurers, and that aesthetic was at least 75% of what made me interested in the theme in the first place. Themes shouldn’t have to be forced into the shape of decade-old IPs to be appealing, and in fact that kind of grinding down the uniqueness of a concept can take away any unique appeal it might have had.

That’s sort of what I was talking about in my previous comment. Hidden Side may seem slightly dated a decade from now, but it’ll also encapsulate that moment in in the evolution of Lego sets, stories, and tech for the rest of time. If you got rid of the phones and funky vehicles and hip teenage protagonists it’d just feel like an iterative update of previous themes that would render the earlier version redundant and would in turn be rendered redundant by the next time Lego revisited the idea of a “spooky theme”.

[Digger of Bricks]

15 minutes ago, Lyichir said:

Nah. The Atlantis sets’ aesthetic would not work at all for Adventurers, and that aesthetic was at least 75% of what made me interested in the theme in the first place. Themes shouldn’t have to be forced into the shape of decade-old IPs to be appealing, and in fact that kind of grinding down the uniqueness of a concept can take away any unique appeal it might have had.

To be fair, I wasn't being serious there, as I do love Lego's Atlantis theme for what it is!  Nonetheless, an Atlantis subtheme fit into the Adventurers mold would still be awesome, as it'd more take after Verne's Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea and Disney's Atlantis: The Lost Empire rather than underwater Neo M-Tron. 

Edited December 1, 2019 by Digger of Bricks

[Lego David]

5 hours ago, Digger of Bricks said:

To be fair, I wasn't being serious there, as I do love Lego's Atlantis theme for what it is!  Nonetheless, an Atlantis subtheme fit into the Adventurers mold would still be awesome, as it'd more take after Verne's Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea and Disney's Atlantis: The Lost Empire rather than underwater Neo M-Tron.

Atlantis wasn't an just an underwater M-Tron. You still got the awesome sea-monsters... Even a Squid and Leviathan, like in those properties you mentioned above:

Edited December 2, 2019 by Lego David

[Digger of Bricks]

7 hours ago, Lego David said:

Atlantis wasn't an just an underwater M-Tron. You still got the awesome sea-monsters... Even a Squid and Leviathan, like in those properties you mentioned above:

Obviously those elements would likely remain pretty much unchanged or at least quite similar to such if Atlantis instead had more of a period setting in the spirit of Adventurers. 

[Asajki]

On 12/1/2019 at 7:18 PM, Lego David said:

At the very least, it's a lot better than Hidden Side.

In your opinion 

On 12/1/2019 at 2:46 PM, Digger of Bricks said:

Well, that isn't to say that Monster Fighters in concept had potential beyond a single wave, as I would've been quite interested to see the theme move on beyond stereotypical Universal-type monsters and more towards something Lovecraftian or Noir flavored... 

Hmm, I’m not sure, uniting stuff like power miners, Atlantis and monster fighters kinda reminds me of something

cough cough one year city themes cough cough 

[Digger of Bricks]

1 hour ago, OwenMistika said:

Hmm, I’m not sure, uniting stuff like power miners, Atlantis and monster fighters kinda reminds me of something

cough cough one year city themes cough cough

Heh, but City can't give you Sky Pirates, Zeppelins, Evil Barons, Mechanical Men, Lovecraftian Monsters, Undead Mummies, Dinosaurs, Subterranean Civilizations, Masked Avengers, Pulp-Era Adventurers... 

[Asajki]

16 hours ago, Digger of Bricks said:

Heh, but City can't give you Sky Pirates, Zeppelins, Evil Barons, Mechanical Men, Lovecraftian Monsters, Undead Mummies, Dinosaurs, Subterranean Civilizations, Masked Avengers, Pulp-Era Adventurers... 

Nor can adventures give you all of those 

[Digger of Bricks]

8 hours ago, OwenMistika said:

Nor can adventures give you all of those 

Oh no, believe me, it could easily pull off all of that (and maybe more) if given the chance...  ...I mean, as far as genre representation within Lego playthemes goes, such a theme at its fullest potential could do for Pulp-Era adventure fiction what Ninjago has done for Martial Arts and Japanese Pop Culture. 

[Lyichir]

13 hours ago, Digger of Bricks said:

Oh no, believe me, it could easily pull off all of that (and maybe more) if given the chance...  ...I mean, as far as genre representation within Lego playthemes goes, such a theme at its fullest potential could do for Pulp-Era adventure fiction what Ninjago has done for Martial Arts and Japanese Pop Culture. 

Even if there were an overarching theme of that sort, I can't help but think that the Adventurers theme is a poor fit for it. Broaden it that far and it loses the classic appeal it once had. To be honest, even back in the day I felt like the Dino Island subtheme lost sight of the real-world archaeological basis that made the first two years of the theme great (thankfully, Orient Expedition brought that sense of real-world adventure back with a vengeance, with only the occasional fantasy elements for flavor).

It's much like how a lot of people reacted skeptically to the fourth Indiana Jones movie's introduction of crystal skulls and ancient aliens, which a lot of people considered a step too far in the sci-fi direction compared to the original series' focus on mythological or historic relics.

[Digger of Bricks]

10 hours ago, Lyichir said:

Even if there were an overarching theme of that sort, I can't help but think that the Adventurers theme is a poor fit for it. Broaden it that far and it loses the classic appeal it once had. To be honest, even back in the day I felt like the Dino Island subtheme lost sight of the real-world archaeological basis that made the first two years of the theme great (thankfully, Orient Expedition brought that sense of real-world adventure back with a vengeance, with only the occasional fantasy elements for flavor).

It's much like how a lot of people reacted skeptically to the fourth Indiana Jones movie's introduction of crystal skulls and ancient aliens, which a lot of people considered a step too far in the sci-fi direction compared to the original series' focus on mythological or historic relics.

Um, I kinda find it strange that you of all people would be hesitant of a more fantastical reboot/reimagining of a classic playtheme...  ...I mean, such a theme needn't have to be thought of as a successor to Adventurers, just as nobody currently considers Ninjago as a reboot of 1999's Ninja subtheme. 

[Lyichir]

5 minutes ago, Digger of Bricks said:

Um, I kinda find it strange that you of all people would be hesitant of a more fantastical reboot/reimagining of a classic playtheme...  ...I mean, such a theme needn't have to be thought of as a successor to Adventurers, just as nobody currently considers Ninjago as a reboot of 1999's Ninja subtheme. 

I guess? The way you had framed it made it sound to me like you did want it to be that. But if the goal wasn't to have all those sorts of disparate themes share the classic Adventurers cast, then what exactly would be gained by making them all one overarching theme instead of keeping them separate? The way it was, with various themes featuring their own distinct aesthetics, settings, and casts of characters, allowed for a broad range of appeal, so that even somebody who was less enthused by the Castlevania-esque gothic horror of Monster Fighters might prefer the sleek sci-fi stylings of Atlantis or the gritty, blue collar industrial look of Power Miners. Trying to force it all under a single theme umbrella could necessitate finding a compromise between them and flattening that diverse appeal for a more even tone, which might be very good for the specific audience that is interested in whatever that middle ground would be... but less so for anyone whose interests skew closer to any one of those many extremes.

On top of that, you run into an issue where those themes can't exist side by side as easily. Ninjago's flexibility allows it to reinvent itself from season to season, but conversely it can't easily maintain focus on a particular setting or set of baddies while simultaneously moving on to another, different one. So instead of the action theme heyday of a decade ago, where you had themes like Atlantis, Power Miners, and Dino all coexisting with distinct branding, an overarching "Adventurers" theme might have to focus on one quest at a time and move on from that to focus on a different sort of setting and quest, even if there were still opportunities available for the previous story material (as we saw when both Atlantis and Power Miners were able to persist beyond their first years of sets)

[Asajki]

On 12/5/2019 at 2:07 AM, Digger of Bricks said:

On 12/4/2019 at 5:17 PM, OwenMistika said:

 

Oh no, believe me, it could easily pull off all of that (and maybe more) if given the chance...  ...I mean, as far as genre representation within Lego playthemes goes, such a theme at its fullest potential could do for Pulp-Era adventure fiction what Ninjago has done for Martial Arts and Japanese Pop Culture. 

I’m not sure how I feel about Johnny Thunder fighting pharaohs, industrial mining and exploring the galaxy in one theme…

8 hours ago, Digger of Bricks said:

Um, I kinda find it strange that you of all people would be hesitant of a more fantastical reboot/reimagining of a classic playtheme...  ...I mean, such a theme needn't have to be thought of as a successor to Adventurers, just as nobody currently considers Ninjago as a reboot of 1999's Ninja subtheme. 

But it’s literally having 1999’s ninja fighting Jailbreak Joe, Brickbeard, Blacktron, Eruptorr, Amset-Ra, a t-Rex and king Leo in one theme! 
 

 

7 hours ago, Lyichir said:

I guess? The way you had framed it made it sound to me like you did want it to be that. But if the goal wasn't to have all those sorts of disparate themes share the classic Adventurers cast, then what exactly would be gained by making them all one overarching theme instead of keeping them separate? The way it was, with various themes featuring their own distinct aesthetics, settings, and casts of characters, allowed for a broad range of appeal, so that even somebody who was less enthused by the Castlevania-esque gothic horror of Monster Fighters might prefer the sleek sci-fi stylings of Atlantis or the gritty, blue collar industrial look of Power Miners. Trying to force it all under a single theme umbrella could necessitate finding a compromise between them and flattening that diverse appeal for a more even tone, which might be very good for the specific audience that is interested in whatever that middle ground would be... but less so for anyone whose interests skew closer to any one of those many extremes.

On top of that, you run into an issue where those themes can't exist side by side as easily. Ninjago's flexibility allows it to reinvent itself from season to season, but conversely it can't easily maintain focus on a particular setting or set of baddies while simultaneously moving on to another, different one. So instead of the action theme heyday of a decade ago, where you had themes like Atlantis, Power Miners, and Dino all coexisting with distinct branding, an overarching "Adventurers" theme might have to focus on one quest at a time and move on from that to focus on a different sort of setting and quest, even if there were still opportunities available for the previous story material (as we saw when both Atlantis and Power Miners were able to persist beyond their first years of sets)

I agree but one misconception 

7 hours ago, Lyichir said:

Atlantis, Power Miners, and Dino all coexisting with distinct branding,

Atlantis replaced power miners, Pharaoh’s quest replaced Atlantis, alien conquest replaced pharaohs quest and Dino replaced alien conquest

[Digger of Bricks]

On 12/5/2019 at 9:26 PM, Lyichir said:

I guess? The way you had framed it made it sound to me like you did want it to be that. But if the goal wasn't to have all those sorts of disparate themes share the classic Adventurers cast, then what exactly would be gained by making them all one overarching theme instead of keeping them separate?

Simple, at the very least, you'd gain the potential assurance that there'll be limitless supply of 1920's/1930's/1940's-inspired minifigure designs that can only come from an evergreen playtheme. For me, it's not about further adventures for Johnny Thunder & Company as much as it's maintaining a consistent time period setting and spirit, because a new "Adventurers" theme shouldn't necessarily be about bringing back the old characters. 

On 12/5/2019 at 9:26 PM, Lyichir said:

The way it was, with various themes featuring their own distinct aesthetics, settings, and casts of characters, allowed for a broad range of appeal, so that even somebody who was less enthused by the Castlevania-esque gothic horror of Monster Fighters might prefer the sleek sci-fi stylings of Atlantis or the gritty, blue collar industrial look of Power Miners. Trying to force it all under a single theme umbrella could necessitate finding a compromise between them and flattening that diverse appeal for a more even tone, which might be very good for the specific audience that is interested in whatever that middle ground would be... but less so for anyone whose interests skew closer to any one of those many extremes.

On top of that, you run into an issue where those themes can't exist side by side as easily. Ninjago's flexibility allows it to reinvent itself from season to season, but conversely it can't easily maintain focus on a particular setting or set of baddies while simultaneously moving on to another, different one. So instead of the action theme heyday of a decade ago, where you had themes like Atlantis, Power Miners, and Dino all coexisting with distinct branding, an overarching "Adventurers" theme might have to focus on one quest at a time and move on from that to focus on a different sort of setting and quest, even if there were still opportunities available for the previous story material (as we saw when both Atlantis and Power Miners were able to persist beyond their first years of sets)

I really don't see why Ninjago would be any more flexible than an evergreen Adventurers theme could be... 

On 12/6/2019 at 5:08 AM, OwenMistika said:

I’m not sure how I feel about Johnny Thunder fighting pharaohs, industrial mining and exploring the galaxy in one theme…

Well, a "mining" subtheme under the Adventurers umbrella wouldn't involve resource harvesting and rock monsters like Rock Raiders and Power Miners, as it'd be more like Jules Verne's Journey to the Center of the Earth and Disney's Atlantis: The Lost Empire. 

[MAB]

On 12/6/2019 at 11:08 AM, OwenMistika said:

I agree but one misconception 

Atlantis replaced power miners, Pharaoh’s quest replaced Atlantis, alien conquest replaced pharaohs quest and Dino replaced alien conquest

Atlantis sets were on the shelves at the same time as PQ and AC in 2011.