(Moc) Narrow Gauge 4-6-0

[SteamSewnEmpire]

It was a holiday, so I decided to try one more. I think I'm done for a while - my fingers hurt.

I think, of the three, this is the one I'd build. Unfortunately, only the front two axles are gear driven - if that causes binding, I guess I'd have to live with it.

The model is intended to use custom rods and valve gear - not sure they'd be available with the odd spacing, though.

Edited November 12, 2019 by SteamSewnEmpire

[zephyr1934]

1 hour ago, SteamSewnEmpire said:

I think, of the three, this is the one I'd build. Unfortunately, only the front two axles are gear driven - if that causes binding, I guess I'd have to live with it.

The model is intended to use custom rods and valve gear - not sure they'd be available with the odd spacing, though.

You have been prolific, and indeed, this might be the best of the three (presumably reflecting the learning curve from one to the next). Many Lego steam engines only have one driven axle, so powering two should not cause troubles, but only put traction bands on the powered axles... actually, if you are including the blind driver, might not be worth powering that one. What is critical to prevent binding is that you quarter the wheels (rods 90° out of phase between one side and the other).

Now one potential problem you might run into with this build is the very long wheel base between the flanged driver wheels. At a minimum extra friction in the curves, and potentially jamming up entirely on R40 curves. So I would suggest doing a quick and dirty test build of just the wheels to make sure it handles whatever curves and switches you plan to throw at it. Might be better to swap the blind an flanged on the first two axles.

As for rods, if you are looking at me, yeah, I can do any unusual arrangement you might have. Either PM me here or drop me a bricklink message if/when you would like to discuss further.

[ecmo47]

AH! I'd recognize D&RGW T-12 #168 in any form! Great job capturing the essence of the locomotive.  Very fitting as the Cumbres and Toltec recently got it under steam after a long rebuilding.

https://cumbrestoltec.com/about-us-2/168-2/

Edited November 12, 2019 by ecmo47

[SteamSewnEmpire]

4 hours ago, zephyr1934 said:

You have been prolific, and indeed, this might be the best of the three (presumably reflecting the learning curve from one to the next). Many Lego steam engines only have one driven axle, so powering two should not cause troubles, but only put traction bands on the powered axles... actually, if you are including the blind driver, might not be worth powering that one. What is critical to prevent binding is that you quarter the wheels (rods 90° out of phase between one side and the other).

Now one potential problem you might run into with this build is the very long wheel base between the flanged driver wheels. At a minimum extra friction in the curves, and potentially jamming up entirely on R40 curves. So I would suggest doing a quick and dirty test build of just the wheels to make sure it handles whatever curves and switches you plan to throw at it. Might be better to swap the blind an flanged on the first two axles.

As for rods, if you are looking at me, yeah, I can do any unusual arrangement you might have. Either PM me here or drop me a bricklink message if/when you would like to discuss further.

I was going to look at you, yeah. :) When I have the dough, I'll be in touch.

2 minutes ago, ecmo47 said:

AH! I'd recognize D&RGW T-12 #168 in any form! Great job capturing the essence of the locomotive.  Very fitting as the Cumbres and Toltec recently got it under steam after a long rebuilding.

https://cumbrestoltec.com/about-us-2/168-2/

Yeah, I was looking a 168 (and watching videos). I spent like 6 hours trying to produce a satisfying slope up into the smoke box before finally deciding to heck with it and just doing a freelance version. The was the primary basis, though - good eye. :) 

[ecmo47]

Somewhat off topic but what would the scale of these loco's be? Since these are 8-wide and "narrow-gauge", a standard gauge train would probably be some where around 12 studs wide. The Lego minfig would really be too small populate the cab.

Edited November 12, 2019 by ecmo47

[Thai bricks]

It is the other way round: a standard gauge loco is smaller than a narrow gauge on the same width tracks.

[SteamSewnEmpire]

5 hours ago, ecmo47 said:

Somewhat off topic but what would the scale of these loco's be? Since these are 8-wide and "narrow-gauge", a standard gauge train would probably be some where around 12 studs wide. The Lego minfig would really be too small populate the cab.

They're 7 studs wide (except the top of the loco cab, which is 8 so it overhangs), with three studs between the wheels. They do run a bit large, but, on the other hand, I find the 2 stud width narrow gauge to be too problematic to bother with.

[Roadmonkeytj]

On 11/12/2019 at 7:08 AM, Thai bricks said:

It is the other way round: a standard gauge loco is smaller than a narrow gauge on the same width tracks.

I find issue with this statement ... See below ... 

@SteamSewnEmpire

Guage has to do with wheel spacing not scale ... Unless your basing spacing of the Lego track guage as a means to find your ”scale”

A ”standard guage" loco will have wheel spacing to the standard guage (4' 8.5”)(Lego track does fit if you build 10w) 

However ”narrow guage” was less than standard ... The engines were build to the same construction but ran a narrower wheelset.  Many locos were fitted with standard wheelsets then transfered to narrow wheelsets via crane at a transfer station ... Or simply delivered via flat car with narrow wheels mounted.  Also engines were also shipped without wheels blocked up on flat cars and  transfered to narrow rails on site.  (Sourced from various historical US railroad materials)

So the "scale” of your loco depends on if you are building with the tracks to the same scale as your loco.  8w is roughly 1:48 scale or ”O” for you model railroad folk.  6w being roughly ”S" or in the Lego community ”L Guage" 

Sorry for this rant ... It spills over from my model railroad experience where people like to mix guage and scale up

Needless to say I have to tell you have done well on your journey to this model ... I've enjoyed watching the progression.

How do you plan to couple the tender to the engine though?

[SteamSewnEmpire]

23 minutes ago, Roadmonkeytj said:

I find issue with this statement ... See below ... 

@SteamSewnEmpire

Guage has to do with wheel spacing not scale ... Unless your basing spacing of the Lego track guage as a means to find your ”scale”

A ”standard guage" loco will have wheel spacing to the standard guage (4' 8.5”)(Lego track does fit if you build 10w) 

However ”narrow guage” was less than standard ... The engines were build to the same construction but ran a narrower wheelset.  Many locos were fitted with standard wheelsets then transfered to narrow wheelsets via crane at a transfer station ... Or simply delivered via flat car with narrow wheels mounted.  Also engines were also shipped without wheels blocked up on flat cars and  transfered to narrow rails on site.  (Sourced from various historical US railroad materials)

So the "scale” of your loco depends on if you are building with the tracks to the same scale as your loco.  8w is roughly 1:48 scale or ”O” for you model railroad folk.  6w being roughly ”S" or in the Lego community ”L Guage" 

Sorry for this rant ... It spills over from my model railroad experience where people like to mix guage and scale up

Needless to say I have to tell you have done well on your journey to this model ... I've enjoyed watching the progression.

How do you plan to couple the tender to the engine though?

Lol, wait, most of that was directed at Thai, not me, right? I generally regard the unaltered track that Lego releases to be North American and British standard gauge (and I try to do standard gauge trains in 8w, although they can loiter closer to 9w sometimes when cabs, roofs, etc. are factored in). I treat 3 studs between the ties as either 3 foot track (Colorado, Alaska roads, etc.) or as 3'6" (Cape Gauge) keeping to 7w rolling stock, and then 2 studs as 2' stuff with 6w rolling stock. This isn't a perfect system, but it's what I default to for simplicity's sake. 

As far as linking the tender to the locomotive, I was going to pop standard magnetic couplers into these:

Although I may have to slightly alter the part to make it work.

Edited November 14, 2019 by SteamSewnEmpire

[Thai bricks]

6 hours ago, Roadmonkeytj said:

I find issue with this statement ... See below ... 

@SteamSewnEmpire

Guage has to do with wheel spacing not scale ... Unless your basing spacing of the Lego track guage as a means to find your ”scale” 

Sorry, unless you want to use the rare Lego narrow track you have to use the Lego gauge to scale your models and that's what I have assumed here.  So, if you put a model of a metre gauge loco on Lego track than it will have to be significantly larger than a std. gauge loco on the same track (unless you want to exclude the actual gauge from the scaling exercise.

[SteamSewnEmpire]

5 hours ago, Thai bricks said:

Sorry, unless you want to use the rare Lego narrow track you have to use the Lego gauge to scale your models and that's what I have assumed here.  So, if you put a model of a metre gauge loco on Lego track than it will have to be significantly larger than a std. gauge loco on the same track (unless you want to exclude the actual gauge from the scaling exercise.

With 3d printing, pretty much any gauge is now possible. Plus, I expect my models are more likely to end up on a mantle than a loop at some club.

[Thai bricks]

I was originally replying to @ecmo47, but it seems everybody else felt addressed. Sorry about that. We were all meaning the same thing. If you read the message above mine you will see what I meant.

[zephyr1934]

21 hours ago, SteamSewnEmpire said:

Lol, wait, most of that was directed at Thai, not me, right? I generally regard the unaltered track that Lego releases to be North American and British standard gauge (and I try to do standard gauge trains in 8w, although they can loiter closer to 9w sometimes when cabs, roofs, etc. are factored in). I treat 3 studs between the ties as either 3 foot track (Colorado, Alaska roads, etc.) or as 3'6" (Cape Gauge) keeping to 7w rolling stock, and then 2 studs as 2' stuff with 6w rolling stock. This isn't a perfect system, but it's what I default to for simplicity's sake. 

As far as linking the tender to the locomotive, I was going to pop standard magnetic couplers into these:

Although I may have to slightly alter the part to make it work.

 

If the locomotive is powered you probably do not want to do that, the axle will slip out of the axle hole and the engine will run away on its own. Technic half beams would work though.

16 hours ago, Thai bricks said:

Sorry, unless you want to use the rare Lego narrow track you have to use the Lego gauge to scale your models and that's what I have assumed here.  So, if you put a model of a metre gauge loco on Lego track than it will have to be significantly larger than a std. gauge loco on the same track (unless you want to exclude the actual gauge from the scaling exercise.

Actually, you can do dual gauge using the old 4.5v rail, but you can only turn one way...

Both 4Dbrix and Trixbrix offer narrow gauge track too.

[Roadmonkeytj]

On 11/14/2019 at 1:58 AM, SteamSewnEmpire said:

Lol, wait, most of that was directed at Thai, not me, right? 

Sorry I tagged you so as to not be miss informed lol.  But it was triggered by Thai.  Just wanted to be sure you knew engines were the same size reguardless of the guage wheels beneath them.  Usually you saw smaller lighter engines on narrow guage and it was common for pictures to show narrow and standard next to each other but the engines are different classes and make the narrow look smaller.   This is one of the shipping methods of narrow guage over standard: 

14 hours ago, Thai bricks said:

I was originally replying to @ecmo47, but it seems everybody else felt addressed. Sorry about that. We were all meaning the same thing. If you read the message above mine you will see what I meant.

Appologies if I came off harsh towards you.  It's just a muddy hole I've seen many people fall into when guage and scale are concerned. I've seen more confusion and frustration then needed arise out of similar conversations

On 11/14/2019 at 1:58 AM, SteamSewnEmpire said:

As far as linking the tender to the locomotive, I was going to pop standard magnetic couplers into these:

I would recommend against that part for the same reason zepher already listed lol

I have used this with success though .. the Axel ends can be tied into the frame

[AlAxe2]

I'm writing to ask if you would mind sending me the original LDD of the 4-6-0. I want to use it as inspiration for another Lego train I'm working on.

[JopieK]

7 hours ago, AlAxe2 said:

I'm writing to ask if you would mind sending me the original LDD of the 4-6-0. I want to use it as inspiration for another Lego train I'm working on.

Was it really necessary to add that message on a topic from half a year ago?

Welcome to Eurobricks and Train Tech, but don't just ask, also bring. That will keep you friends with all the others here. First try yourself, share and then @SteamSewnEmpire and other members will be glad to give input.

[AlAxe2]

How did you build the cylinders?

[Craig Strader]

In a way, it looks vaguely similar to the Baldwin Ten-Wheeler off Railway Empire. Only this variant is a wood burner, has a different paint job and of course a narrow gauge steam locomotive. Other than that, it looks really good

Edited January 2, 2021 by Craig Strader