World City Theme Discussion

[Classic_Spaceman]

As evidenced by the ongoing debate in the City 2020 thread, members here have strong feelings regarding the old World City theme. 

Quote

HAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

World City is one of THE WORST LEGO THEMES EVER!

Where's the roof? And those wheels are way to small!

Who squashed his helicopter?

IS THAT A TANK?? And is that a station or a cylinder and a square?

Someone needs to lay off all the doughnuts, what a fat looking truck! And those wheels are way to small!

HOW BLOCKY!!

The edgy van and the off road 4x4 sedan

Is that a van or a block? And Police money transporter? It was bad in 2017 but it's worse here! And those wheels are way to small!

That's not a fireboat! More of a speedboat

A Jack Stone level build on a mound of sand!

Mom! This train has an alsa! I've seen better looking trains in duplo!

I actually kinda like this one...
But other than the last one, I couldn't find a good world city set, I found an okay one, but it wasn't good

World City is a poor theme and massively overated, not to mention, the theme was almost entirely rescue stuff, the rest was train stuff, no normal civillian stuff!

To avoid derailing existing threads, and to facilitate discussion of this topic, I have created this thread. 
 

Edited November 11, 2019 by Classic_Spaceman

[The Island Chronicles]

Oh. Thanks for making this topic. Now we can do some real discussion. 

[AMD]

Since World City theme is made. Here's my thoughts:

WARNING: Unpopular opinions may cause headaches, emotions and loads of stress. Viewer discretion is advised. 

First off. You do know that this sub-theme is a redeeming factor to the infamous Town Jr./City Center line back in 1997

Looking back in Town Jr/City Center. There are so many big pieces and few bricks to be put at. Good toy for kids but not so much for adult/AFOLS. Think of this as the Junior/4+ theme of today but without the Main theme to go along with it.

That alone caused the town to died down all because of poor decisions. It takes at least two years to finally bring back the roots of what town was successful and its the predecessor of what will be known as City. 

I didn't mind it as an AFOL  but If I was young back then, I would have brought it in a heartbeat Sorry guys but I'm with Maple in this one.

 

[ArneNielsen]

OK, I will admit to this: I have all the World City sets, like I have all the Jack Stone city sets.

And there IS some World City sets that I really like:

10027 Train Engine Shed - because it was unique and awesome (even if you really needed two to make it long enough for most train engines)

7032 Undercover Van - because it was almost pure Men In Black!

7047 Coast Watch HQ - because it was something else (and I have this odd love and obsession about baseplates!)

But then again,  I am not much of a MOC'er, so I dont mind the big bricks.

And by the way: I like the 4+ sets in generel, as there are NEVER stickers in those, only printed bricks.

[Evans]

I don't think it's fair to spit on World City as one could do with Town Jr.

Town Jr. was an evolution of the town theme, but that was going in the wrong direction. It contained rather nice-looking and innovative minifigure torsos, but the builds were crappy and it was what should have been the future of the Town line before noticing the sales drop, and strategy change. It led to the 2001 and 2002 hiatus of the town line, in order to restart with fresh and good ideas.

World City is before all a transitional theme, between Town Jr, and more widely the "old times", made of 4 wide angular vehicles to something new and that would fit in the XXIth century context. World City was a way to set the grounds to City, with very new parts like the 4x4 wedge that is used on most of the 4w city cars, and it introduced new angles to the vehicles building.
Of course, a mix of old-school building and new parts may not look right, but it was a matter of time to intruduce the new City system and its parts, like the mudguard part, the specific vehicles bases and so on. So World City was a first step on way less <insert that tiresome argument> sets, and more up-to-date designs. I mean, it was also very futuristic-looking, but it was a try to something new, and it led to nice trains, like 4512, which is a very complete set that would still not look out of place in a 2019 layout. I don't like 4511 train, but it's depicting a japanease-like high-speed train, like Shinkansen. It may not have pleased everyone but it was something new, and a bit less fictionnal than late 90's trains, despite having these odd cargo containers in a passenger carriage. It's just a matter of MODing it.

The last big train station was also released in World City theme, it was just a futuristic approach to the well-known 1991 train station, but it was still an impessive set.

The coast-guard line was rather appealing and I don't see how one can see this set as a Jack-Stone building, just look at the Jack Stone R.E.S.Q. coast-guard H.Q. and compare. This building is more a mix of mid 90's Town building and modern parts like the quarter-cylinder window (that we will meet again in the 2011 police station and some other City sets), that are sitting on a very cleverly repurposed Belleville baseplate. I ever wonder if this plate was not designed to fit both themes.

When we are speaking about World City, don't forget to include (or not) the Spider-Man sets from 2003 and 2004 that were very nice complement to the line, with the same spirit and building methods. Look at the subway set, or at the bridge, that was reusing these crappy Racers parts.
There was even a better-looking police car (with a roof!), and if 4030 don't please you, just build it like in Spider-Man first chase set.

To conclude, never forget that the World City primary reason of existence is to be a transitional theme, that was acting a bit like 1975-1977 sets for the Classic era with non-moveable minifigs, but forming a sort of "pre-system". World City is just a precursor of the more reasonnably modern-looking Lego City.

 

 

[The Island Chronicles]

@Evans ...and the unpleasant and creepy looks on the minifigures faces? Surely, you can't let that slide. At least the cops in LEGO City looked friendly. 

Edited November 11, 2019 by pooda

[Murdoch17]

@pooda about the fig faces.... Lego was going through a phase then with face design from the mid 1990's to mid 2000's. Look at the noses (!) on the Western Native American's and this guy's red hair from star wars to see that they were experimenting with the perfect formula for fig creation... only to find they had it right the first time through back in 1989 - 1992! Too much decoration, (noses, bright / metallic hair color, sweat, etc.) is just a recipe for the uncanny valley effect. Sometimes the best way is the simplest way.

Otherwise, the World City set's are fine to me.

Edited November 11, 2019 by Murdoch17

[Asajki]

5 hours ago, AMD said:

There are so many big pieces and few bricks to be put at.

Where to begin with this?

World City CG Base had so many huge parts

The set has too many of these parts and not that many small parts

33 minutes ago, Murdoch17 said:

@pooda about the fig faces.... Lego was going through a phase then with face design from the mid 1990's to mid 2000's. Look at the noses (!) on the Western Native American's and this guy's red hair from star wars to see that they were experimenting with the perfect formula for fig creation... only to find they had it right the first time through back in 1989 - 1992! Too much decoration, (noses, bright / metallic hair color, sweat, etc.) is just a recipe for the uncanny valley effect. Sometimes the best way is the simplest way.

 

Do I need to explain?

33 minutes ago, Murdoch17 said:

 Otherwise, the World City set's are fine to me.

Let's take this police car, it's a simple set and a better set to find criticisms with

1. The wheels are far too small

2. The tyres are too slick, making it look far more like a race cars

3. The whole figure doesn't fit in causing his head to jut out

4. The bumper is too flat for the overly curved lights

5. The radiator grill juts out too far

6. It has pointless pertruding slopes rather randomly jutting out

7. The windscreen is too blocky for the sleek design the designer was going for

8. The car is very long and flat causing it to look squashed

9. The headlights are rather oddly placed behind the figure

10. (And most impotantly) IT HAS NO ROOF!!!!

1 hour ago, Evans said:

 Of course, a mix of old-school building and new parts may not look right, but it was a matter of time to intruduce the new City system and its parts, like the mudguard part, the specific vehicles bases and so on. So World City was a first step on way less <insert that tiresome argument> sets, and more up-to-date designs. I mean, it was also very futuristic-looking, but it was a try to something new, and it led to nice trains, like 4512, which is a very complete set that would still not look out of place in a 2019 layout. I don't like 4511 train, but it's depicting a japanease-like high-speed train, like Shinkansen. It may not have pleased everyone but it was something new, and a bit less fictionnal than late 90's trains, despite having these odd cargo containers in a passenger carriage. It's just a matter of MODing it.

 

First off, Shinkansen was a very sleek train and comparing 4511's flat front and weird chin is nothing like Shinkansen or the design of it

Now lets talk about 4512, I had little experience with such motors so I doon't know their quality

Forklift:
That thing is a mess, the seats do not work as mudcaps and the wheels are incredibly awkwardly proportioned, it lacks a roof and the driver is completely unprotected

Flatbed

Those are the most impractical and ugly crates I've ever seen and the flatbed is incredibly lumpy

Hopper

It's ugly, undersized and hads no cargo to tip

Boxwagon

It's the best thing in the set by far but why does it have a cockpit?

The Train

BLEH! It suffers from bland colour syndrome, in this case old grey! It's in the whole set but it's worst on the train because it outshadows the litle green on the set, making the green look tacked on and thrown on, making the train incredibly ugly

I'd say WC is up there with JS, Galidor and Znap! as one of Lego's worst themes and shows the neverending struggle in the late 90s - early 2000s to make good sets

[Murdoch17]

7 minutes ago, Asajki said:

SNIP

I think you  misunderstand my statement. I'm not saying the World City figs are great - far from it, they are mostly horrid  - though they do have some diamonds in the rough. (But that might just be my personal taste!) The one set I was referring to about being good was the train shed, number 10027. I even made XXL version of it back in 2015, as seen below:

 

[The Island Chronicles]

Each to their own! I'm standing by my statement. City as a theme is better than World City. No....I'm not a fan of the extra police subjects, but overall - City has done a far better job. 

[Asajki]

24 minutes ago, Murdoch17 said:

The one set I was referring to about being good was the train shed, number 10027.

I agree! Only good set in the theme, I like how you can fit newer trains inside

[icm]

Here's my brief opinion regarding World City - brief, because I should be doing my homework right now.  I was introduced to Lego during the Town Jr era, and compared to that World City, and the similarly-styled Spider-Man sets, were a real breath of fresh air.  The cars and helicopters had flaws, but for the time they had interesting new parts and building techniques and they clearly attempted to look like real cars and helicopters, as opposed to being the simplest possible abstractions of the real-world vehicles.  The main problem was that the dark, moody lighting on the World City police and rescue box art didn't give the theme much room to grow in content and style.  Also, the name doesn't translate well.  As a transitional theme produced during the period when Lego was getting back on its feet and the designers were learning to use the new parts families, it was pretty good.

As a kid, I actually thought the police car was really good.  I still do, despite the lack of a roof.  Since I already wrote about it at length in a Brickset review, I'll copy-paste it here:

"

The World City Squad Car is a good example of set design during Lego's brush with bankruptcy in the early 2000s. Thanks to a plethora of new parts, sets from the time looked radically fresh and new compared to those of the previous decade, but the set designers were still learning to use new parts like wedge plates and curved slopes, so the results sometimes looked clunky and unrefined. World City itself is perhaps the clearest expression of the era, as it is the bridge between Town and City: short-lived and clearly with a foot in both eras, such that Brickset could easily classify it as a subtheme of either larger theme but instead classifies it separately.

The Town cars of the late 1990s, known pejoratively as the "Town Junior" era, were extremely simple. The sides were built up with bricks and doors; the hoods were simple slope bricks; the headlights were either 1x1 plates underneath the slope bricks or just printed slopes; small cars never had a roof or rear windshield; as often as not the tires were large balloons that didn't fit the chassis; and the cars were almost always built on an extremely limited vehicle base that allowed for no flexibility in the placement of the driver's seat or the wheels. Even as a kid, I thought them boring and ugly, because they didn't look like real cars.

Then along came World City, and suddenly we had a little police car that looked almost like a Ford Crown Victoria Police Interceptor. The new curved plates used for the hood and trunk closely resembled the smooth curves of the second-generation police interceptor that appeared in superhero movies like Spider-Man and Spider-Man 2, and on the streets in my home town. Turned on their sides, the Jack Stone siren pieces became gloriously big headlights and taillights that matched the curves of the hood, again like a Crown Victoria Police Interceptor. The clever use of four white headlight brackets allowed a radiator grille in front! And bumpers! None of these features appeared in any of the Town Junior cars I was familiar with. The new trans-black windscreen matched the color of the glass I saw on cop cars around town. The wheels almost fit in the wheel arches, though they were a bit too broad. Finally, the police officer looked like a friendly guy this time, not like a grim bully hiding under sunglasses who would as soon send you to jail as cite you for speeding and would definitely not help get your cat out of a tree [like the black-clad, sunglass-wearing Town Jr cops]. It's worthwhile to note, too, that the vehicle base used for this Squad Car had been introduced a few years before for Town Formula One cars, but had never previously been used in a regular car for wide release. Since 2003, it's been used as the base for an astonishingly wide variety of cars in different lines and scales.

This kit does have some flaws. The wedge plates used on either side of the driver's seat don't make much sense, the siren mount comes off too easily, the stickers are fragile and easily damaged, the wheels have extremely low clearance, and one wishes for a rear windscreen and a roof. The police car, taxi, and civilian car in the 2003 Spider-Man line didn't have these problems: they had rear windshields, roofs, and slightly more complex builds. But they weren't in $4 lunch-money sets, and this was. Later four-wide cars in the City line have much more substantial builds and more realistic detailing, but they also rely on specialized wheel arches and SNOT parts to support the front and rear fascias. For my money, the 2003 World City Squad Car and Spider-Man cars are the best brick-built 4-wide cars ever released, thanks to their realism and innovative use of new parts without relying on specialized molds to substantially define the shape of the car.

"

[The Island Chronicles]

@icm That wasn't brief. 

But I see your point. But c'mon! We can't argue that 2007-2009 were the best years for City sets. 

[Toastie]

4 hours ago, icm said:

The World City Squad Car is a good example of set design during Lego's brush with bankruptcy in the early 2000s. Thanks to a plethora of new parts, sets from the time looked radically fresh and new compared to those of the previous decade, but the set designers were still learning to use new parts like wedge plates and curved slopes, so the results sometimes looked clunky and unrefined. World City itself is perhaps the clearest expression of the era, as it is the bridge between Town and City: short-lived and clearly with a foot in both eras, such that Brickset could easily classify it as a subtheme of either larger theme but instead classifies it separately.

This.

It's the core of the matter.

9V trains were going out of business - so 4512 is one of the last in a row of so many beautiful train sets. Look at the color scheme - brick build. Look at what they do today. Take and "modern" cargo train. Panels all over the place. Look closely at the box car. Get the instruction and have a look. Nicely done. Old gray was THE gray and for me still is - today's new gray - the bley stuff - there were riots back then when they changed that ... here on EB.

The train shed is a blast.

And always consider what TLC was going through back then. So many new pieces - a dream for old-school builders like me (I sometimes almost referred to as "cheating" as it was life making so much easier or better: Different. New. Exciting.

I love transitions times. This is where things become "different". Evolve.

All the best
Thorsten

 

 

 

Edited November 11, 2019 by Toastie

[AMD]

9 hours ago, Asajki said:

Where to begin with this?

World City CG Base had so many huge parts

The set has too many of these parts and not that many small parts

 Oh! I'm sorry. Yeah, I can agree that there are big pieces on this set but I have to disagree on the big-small ratio. 367 pieces for this:

As compare to this set below:

221 pieces. That has big pieces and few small parts and its 146 pieces less than the one above.

Care to explain?

 

[The Island Chronicles]

1 minute ago, AMD said:

 Oh! I'm sorry. Yeah, I can agree that there are big pieces on this set but I have to disagree on the big-small ratio. 367 pieces for this:

As compare to this set below:

221 pieces. That has big pieces and few small parts and its 146 pieces less than the one above.

Care to explain?

 

It may have less pieces, but I'd honestly rather have the Town Jr. version over the World City. 

[AMD]

2 hours ago, pooda said:

It may have less pieces, but I'd honestly rather have the Town Jr. version over the World City. 

Fair enough. After all, Town Jr. Coast guard watch is what my parents gave me as a christmas gift and I'm very happy to have it with me back when I was 10.

Edited November 12, 2019 by AMD

[KotZ]

I gotta say I like the minifigures' faces, maybe because I grew up in the 2000s and had a lot of faces from different sets across themes. They're silly in an ugly way, but if you put them on the right figure/combination, they don't look too bad.

The sets though just are not too good.

[The Island Chronicles]

54 minutes ago, KotZ said:

The sets though just are not too good.

I think we're on the same page there!

Edited November 12, 2019 by pooda