[MOC] - 9V/PF BR CLASS 55 - "DELTIC"

[Paperinik77pk]

Hi all,

This weekend I had some time to revive my 9V trains. I do not have the full collection as I do for 12V / 4,5V, because I sincerely did not like the 9V era.

But playing a bit with them, repairing two motors and trying to run multiple trains, made me somehow like 9v too. I've never created a 9V MOC, so I began to think what to build.

Having around my 4,5V unfinished MOC of the English DELTIC DP1 locomotive, I tried to adapt it to the 9V world.

Therefore I started identifying the correct scale for my 6-wide trains. I found 1:60 scale allows to create 6-wide trains in an easy way. All trains being 2800mm to 3200mm wide easily are in the "almost 6 studs" range, more or less.

Surprisingly, the prototype of my DP1 (made without any scale in mind) was quite correct. A bit too tall.

I started designing in LDD, and this is the result:

As you can see, the models feature two 9v motors, since I think these will move the model without too much effort. The motors are big, and the third wheels are too far inside - this causes the two central tanks to be smaller than they should be. The "chassis" is now 4-wide and completely fits inside the body.

I wanted to recreate two well-known liveries (two tone green and blue), and I tried to replicate two different "noses" (of the many combinations available). Cabin roof is white because I like this combination more than all green or all blue.

Both feature the central headlight (which I think is a modern requirement, since in some old photos these were not available). I added this headlight since it is simple to light them up with LEDs or original 9v lights. The whole body is empty, inside. A smoke generator would work fine with 9V, to replicate the smoking Deltic experience!

I tried to study a bit also the British coaches to be paired to the two locomotives. I chose a simple model from Mark I family (four doors and seven big windows), able to match the 100MPH speed of these locomotives. The coaches are also made in 1 to 60 scale.

I really hope to find bright green parts in Bricklink - these should be quite common.

Being the motors standard 9v, it should be possible also to easily convert the locomotives to Power Functions. But using PF, the possibility to use smaller bogies and some Technic could restore the two central tanks to the original lenght and give a more balanced side view to the locomotives.

I tried also to create a 12V -  styled version - but the 12V motor uncovered wheels really do not fit well. It's the first time I prefer the 9V fake bogies on a train!

 

...things change...

 

 

 

 

Edited October 27, 2019 by Paperinik77pk

[Pdaitabird]

Wow! I love how you created such realistic locomotives while keeping the 9v style! 

[ColletArrow]

Is it easier or harder to model in these older styles? I suppose it depends on your subject! 

I love your work on this model, especially the doors and other small details. The buffers look excellent but fragile. Your headlight observation seems correct by the way, and I like both the headcode and "domino" blanking-plate noses. 

Neat work overall, as usual! I enjoy your unique building style and ideas, and look forward to whatever's next! 

[zephyr1934]

Wow, the 4.5v prototype is easily recognizable and I would even say that it still stands up even today. Now the retro build I would say that feels more like 12v era rather than 9v (too many bricks to be 9v, grin). The bright green is probably the only thing that would not have been period accurate. Whatever the era, they look sharp on their own without considering the part availability and unbelievable in the "retro" category with the limited part palette.

[The Brick Boss]

Wow! Those are amazing @Paperinik77pk. I'm following you so I can see more of your train MOCs. 

[Paperinik77pk]

14 hours ago, Pdaitabird said:

Wow! I love how you created such realistic locomotives while keeping the 9v style! 

Thanks! What I was searching for is the - "that's a Deltic" feeling. The locomotives are obviously a lot simplified, but what I tried to do is putting the main details in place and keep the overall look. There are many many Deltics in Lego , and they are beautiful and big. This is more a personal trial to run my original prototype in the modern era.

12 hours ago, ColletArrow said:

Is it easier or harder to model in these older styles? I suppose it depends on your subject! 

I love your work on this model, especially the doors and other small details. The buffers look excellent but fragile. Your headlight observation seems correct by the way, and I like both the headcode and "domino" blanking-plate noses. 

Neat work overall, as usual! I enjoy your unique building style and ideas, and look forward to whatever's next! 

Hi there @ColletArrow!!! It is exactly as you said. It depends on the subject. This one is harder to manage, since it in reality it has ALL round shapes. Therefore - it is highly simplified to be "poligonal" (I somehow reason in 8-bit style ). 

Buffers are fragile as you correctly expect - i normally use a trick to make them a little more solid. PF track , when unboxed, is kept together with some gray pins. I cut them and put them inside the round brick and the headlight holder brick. The tile on top of buffers is always fragile by nature

The headcode (thanks for explaining me its name) is made by two transparent bricks - and can fit inside a printed number (white on black). Therefore, using a LED it could be possible to light it up like the real thing . For the "domino" headlights it is as simple as you could imagine, I'll use two LEDs and that's all.

One question...the two small "headlights" in the lower part of the locomotive nose...are these red taillights in reality?

7 hours ago, zephyr1934 said:

Wow, the 4.5v prototype is easily recognizable and I would even say that it still stands up even today. Now the retro build I would say that feels more like 12v era rather than 9v (too many bricks to be 9v, grin). The bright green is probably the only thing that would not have been period accurate. Whatever the era, they look sharp on their own without considering the part availability and unbelievable in the "retro" category with the limited part palette. 

Hi @zephyr1934 , thanks for your feedback!!! You're right , these locomotives have a great "gray era" influence, since they're deriving directly from the 4,5v DP1 prototype. I wanted somehow keep the original look of my old MOC. I used some parts available in 9v era (apart motors) , plus some prehistorical SNOT for the side tanks. I tried to recreate the design of the round top part of the nose in "Santa Fe Style" , but it was not nice like I expected .

The bright green is not a color of the 9v era - I made it  yellow at first...but it was really ugly!!! Let's say I took a "poetic licence" for aesthetics' sake.

Thanks for your feedbacks, always constructive and supportive!

7 hours ago, pooda said:

Wow! Those are amazing @Paperinik77pk. I'm following you so I can see more of your train MOCs. 

Thanks!!! I hope you like them too!!!

[ColletArrow]

 

21 hours ago, Paperinik77pk said:

One question...the two small "headlights" in the lower part of the locomotive nose...are these red taillights in reality? 

Correct, 10 points!  And since you asked... 

Early diesels didn't have headlights at all, only the illuminated headcode boxes; the positions of headlamps in the steam era were used for train identification, and the 4-digit headcode superseded them (with over 1 million possibilities instead of 10). Eventually displaying the train reporting numbers on the trains themselves died out (although the same codes are still in use today), so "domino" blanking-plates were inserted into the boxes until they were removed and proper headlights fitted. 

I think! Don't quote me on any of that, I haven't researched it at all. 

For the model I think it means the earlier two-tone green loco shouldn't have the additional low headlamp, but the later blue one should. Both can have red tail lights sunk into the headlight bricks above the buffers (great idea with reinforceing those by the way!).

I'm looking forward to seeing one of these beasts in real bricks, all lit up. They should be fantastic! And if you add PF, why not look into sound and light control with a PFx Brick, and maybe the smoke generator too... 

Edited October 29, 2019 by ColletArrow

[Paperinik77pk]

4 hours ago, ColletArrow said:

 

Correct, 10 points!  And since you asked... 

Early diesels didn't have headlights at all, only the illuminated headcode boxes; the positions of headlamps in the steam era were used for train identification, and the 4-digit headcode superseded them (with over 1 million possibilities instead of 10). Eventually displaying the train reporting numbers on the trains themselves died out (although the same codes are still in use today), so "domino" blanking-plates were inserted into the boxes until they were removed and proper headlights fitted. 

I think! Don't quote me on any of that, I haven't researched it at all. 

For the model I think it means the earlier two-tone green loco shouldn't have the additional low headlamp, but the later blue one should. Both can have red tail lights sunk into the headlight bricks above the buffers (great idea with reinforceing those by the way!).

I'm looking forward to seeing one of these beasts in real bricks, all lit up. They should be fantastic! And if you add PF, why not look into sound and light control with a PFx Brick, and maybe the smoke generator too... 

Thanks @ColletArrow, now I know what must be illuminated and what is not required - I made a research too but no pictures of the red taillights (only a video in which i see them).

To be sincere, I do not like too much the central headlight on the green one - since it totally ruins the paint scheme.

I saw pictures of the green BR55 restored by Deltic Society - and it has the central headlight (at this point I think to be main line compliant). Well , I'll remove it, only illuminating the "headcode" and small taillights according to direction (using diodes).

A mockup is ready (4,5v  body on PF motors) to test the bogie articulation...I'm not too happy  and I've to rethink it a bit.

Starting from the feedbacks received, I also performed another design of the blue one - this evening I'll render it and post it here.

Ciao and thank you!!!

Davide

 

[Hod Carrier]

Oh yes!! I remember seeing your thread last year when you re-introduced this MOC and I'm glad to see how it's progressed. I really like the way you've kept the retro look of the loco but still made it instantly recognisable.

4 hours ago, ColletArrow said:

Early diesels didn't have headlights at all, only the illuminated headcode boxes; the positions of headlamps in the steam era were used for train identification, and the 4-digit headcode superseded them (with over 1 million possibilities instead of 10). Eventually displaying the train reporting numbers on the trains themselves died out (although the same codes are still in use today), so "domino" blanking-plates were inserted into the boxes until they were removed and proper headlights fitted. 

Just to clarify and expand on the lighting points.

The central headlight was not carried by any of the Deltics until after they were withdrawn and entered preservation as they were not required for mainline running at that time. However, for any preserved loco to have been used on the mainline these would have been needed and so they were fitted. The backlighting for the headcode blinds and later "domino" arrangement was very faint and even when the headcode boxes were plated over and lights fitted these were never considered to be "headlights". In railway parlance they would be referred to as "marker lights", very much light the sidelights on a car, and driving a train at night without a headlight could be an interesting experience. The loco's tail lights would be similarly dim and would only be used when the loco was being moved without a train, otherwise they would be left switched off.

4 hours ago, ColletArrow said:

I think! Don't quote me on any of that, I haven't researched it at all. 

Oops!! 

[Paperinik77pk]

6 hours ago, Hod Carrier said:

Oh yes!! I remember seeing your thread last year when you re-introduced this MOC and I'm glad to see how it's progressed. I really like the way you've kept the retro look of the loco but still made it instantly recognisable.

Just to clarify and expand on the lighting points.

The central headlight was not carried by any of the Deltics until after they were withdrawn and entered preservation as they were not required for mainline running at that time. However, for any preserved loco to have been used on the mainline these would have been needed and so they were fitted. The backlighting for the headcode blinds and later "domino" arrangement was very faint and even when the headcode boxes were plated over and lights fitted these were never considered to be "headlights". In railway parlance they would be referred to as "marker lights", very much light the sidelights on a car, and driving a train at night without a headlight could be an interesting experience. The loco's tail lights would be similarly dim and would only be used when the loco was being moved without a train, otherwise they would be left switched off.

Oops!! 

Hi @Hod Carrier!!! Thanks for your explanation!!!

It's a lot of time since I've shown my 4,5v DP1 , and I've now the possibility to run something very very similar and easier to build.

Starting from @zephyr1934 feedbacks , I tried to create a more complex model, keeping my chassis, parts of the nose and the whole central body. This is the result:

It surely is a bit more advanced than her "boxy" sisters, and it is now ready for Power Functions or Powered Up. It is similar to many other BR55 made out of Lego, because it shares a lot of solutions, like the curved underbody. I kept my old style windscreen, updated the bogies and fitted new long side tanks.

All in all I like it, but I feel it's not "ready". Something still needs some attention.

In the meantime, while I'm using my 4,5v body to try the bogies, I also prepared a new render in DP1 Livery.

Ciao!!!

Davide

[ColletArrow]

7 hours ago, Hod Carrier said:

Oops!! 

I knew you wouldn't be able to resist, it's why I tried not to be too specific and get it wrong! Of course, I learnt all this AFTER I put bi-colour directional battery-powered LEDs in a OO class 37... Anyway. 

50 minutes ago, Paperinik77pk said:

This is the result:

I love the curves (especially along the lower body) and all of the little diesel-y details, but I'm not 100% sold on the nose; I think for the given width, it's a tad too tall. 

52 minutes ago, Paperinik77pk said:

new render in DP1 Livery.

Now THAT's what I was hoping for! She looks perfect in that render, fresh out of the workshop. 

[Paperinik77pk]

3 hours ago, ColletArrow said:

 

I love the curves (especially along the lower body) and all of the little diesel-y details, but I'm not 100% sold on the nose; I think for the given width, it's a tad too tall. 

 

You were right!!! During the redesigning phase I did not pay attention to the overall height! 

I lowered the whole body by 1 plate and the nose by 2 plates.

Now she's again a long and slim girl!

[Hod Carrier]

4 hours ago, ColletArrow said:

I knew you wouldn't be able to resist

Sorry. Professional interest, you see. [Re-engages cloaking device]

[zephyr1934]

8 hours ago, Paperinik77pk said:

Starting from @zephyr1934 feedbacks , I tried to create a more complex model, keeping my chassis, parts of the nose and the whole central body.

Hey, I'm quite fond of retro feel of the original with standard slopes. It does an amazing job of showing what was possible.  But the curved slope version is nice in a contemporary sense. To my eye the buffers seem to be too high. But if my eyes are correct then to get them in the right place you might have to put part of the "front" on the trucks.

[ColletArrow]

8 hours ago, Paperinik77pk said:

I lowered the whole body by 1 plate and the nose by 2 plates.

Those two plates have made all the difference, to my eyes at least. Well done. 

7 hours ago, Hod Carrier said:

Sorry. Professional interest, you see. [Re-engages cloaking device]

3 hours ago, zephyr1934 said:

To my eye the buffers seem to be too high. But if my eyes are correct then to get them in the right place you might have to put part of the "front" on the trucks.

I wonder if a splash of SNoT building on the "newer" model could get the buffers a plate lower onto their little corner skirts. Might be worth a try. 

[LEGO Train 12 Volts]

Hi Davide,

the restyling of this amazing locomotive is simply perfect!

I love the blue version and you've done a great work!

 

[Paperinik77pk]

On 10/30/2019 at 9:44 PM, LEGO Train 12 Volts said:

Hi Davide,

the restyling of this amazing locomotive is simply perfect!

I love the blue version and you've done a great work!

 

Thanks, sir!!! 

Kind and supportive as always!!!

On 10/30/2019 at 6:19 AM, zephyr1934 said:

Hey, I'm quite fond of retro feel of the original with standard slopes. It does an amazing job of showing what was possible.  But the curved slope version is nice in a contemporary sense. To my eye the buffers seem to be too high. But if my eyes are correct then to get them in the right place you might have to put part of the "front" on the trucks.

 

On 10/30/2019 at 10:03 AM, ColletArrow said:

Those two plates have made all the difference, to my eyes at least. Well done. 

I wonder if a splash of SNoT building on the "newer" model could get the buffers a plate lower onto their little corner skirts. Might be worth a try. 

You both are right, the buffers are too high. Lowering them by one plate already gives a different feeling!  I am building the green one in boxy style, and I will modify it as I modified the new version,with lower body and lowered buffers.