If Rise of Skywalker fails/under performs, how would that affect LEGO?

[Arkeeos]

11 hours ago, LEGODrongo01 said:

They both have a very high Rotten Tomatoes percentage bit thats just the percentage of critics who gave a positive review. Its not like all the critics gave it a 9 out of 10. They were well received, but not as masterpieces or anything.

I’m using metacritic, which is an average score aggregate. TFA has an 81 and TLJ has an 85, which is unbelievabley high, most marvel films fall into the 60-70 range, That means on average critics (who are professionals and have professional degrees in media and the arts) gave TFA a 8.1/10 and TLJ and 8.5/10. Please actually check the critical acclaim before you try and disprove it. It is an objective measurement not some bad anecdote.

Edited November 4, 2019 by Arkeeos

[Robianco]

This thread really should be in a different part of the site. It has absolutely nothing to do with Lego in any way, shape or form. It's the same conversation had on countless forums around the world for the last couple of years and contributes absolutely zero to LEGO Star Wars.

The OP has done this now with two threads and then wandered off after dropping the hand grenade into the forum.

Edited November 4, 2019 by Robianco

[Ninja of Fire]

5 minutes ago, Robianco said:

The OP has done this now with two threads and then wandered off after dropping the hand grenade into the forum.

Basically makes threads to talk trash about the new era films and tries to stir some sh*t. This forum isn't really for this kinda stuff. JTA is a much more appropriate place for people who like to cry about the ST and such.

[Robianco]

29 minutes ago, Ninja of Fire said:

Basically makes threads to talk trash about the new era films and tries to stir some sh*t. This forum isn't really for this kinda stuff. JTA is a much more appropriate place for people who like to cry about the ST and such.

Exactly. The thread titles are loosely Lego inclusive but with no interest in that whatsoever. We're now back to slagging off Disney, KK, RJ, JJ... whoever else. It needs to be moved.

[Peppermint_M]

1 hour ago, Robianco said:

This thread really should be in a different part of the site. It has absolutely nothing to do with Lego in any way, shape or form. It's the same conversation had on countless forums around the world for the last couple of years and contributes absolutely zero to LEGO Star Wars.

The OP has done this now with two threads and then wandered off after dropping the hand grenade into the forum.

Yes, it seems to be a habit. Malta thread that could be vaugley controversial. Get bored/proven wrong and move on to something else to start an argument.

I will move this thread.

[Lego David]

4 hours ago, Ninja of Fire said:

Basically makes threads to talk trash about the new era films and tries to stir some sh*t.

I made this topic with no intention of getting there. So don't blame me for that. I am on this site to disscuss LEGO, and if the disscussion shifts off-topic, it's not my fault.

Edited November 4, 2019 by Lego David

[montgocloud]

On 10/19/2019 at 5:42 AM, Lego David said:

So yeah, Disney lost a lot of the Star Wars fans after The Last Jedi, and that was reflected with Solo's incredible under performance at both the box office, and with toy sales.

No. Though it might've been a factor, the thing is the low toy sales have more to do with a broader trend - the same trend that has Hasbro reporting lower overall earnings for years, the same trend that has LEGO reporting lower overall earnings for years, the same trend which caused TRU to go out of business. It has little (if anything) to do with a percentage of fans lost after The Last Jedi. Same with Solo's under performance - The Last Jedi's fan reception might have a bit more to do with this, but it pales astronomically compared to the weak marketing for the film. We didn't get a trailer until three months beforehand. Three months. It was clear that the reshoots bled into the marketing budget, and that had a direct effect on box office performance.

On 10/19/2019 at 5:42 AM, Lego David said:

And the hype for Rise of Skywalker, which releases this December, is close to non-existent. And the early Box Office predictions from experts are also incredibly low.

Except this is simply not true. No legitimate sources have begun tracking the movie. Official tracking doesn't begin until mid-November. Now, some might argue that The Last Jedi's late-October projection was pretty close to early projections: on October 22nd, 2017, it was projected that The Last Jedi would make $215mil opening weekend, and it went to gross $220. However, the difference here is the ludicrous range of TROS' projections. Box Office Pro projected $185-225mil. That's a pretty wide net to cast.

On 10/19/2019 at 5:42 AM, Lego David said:

So I am wandering... If Rise of Skywalker ends up failing or under performing, how would that affect LEGO? Star Wars toy sales are very low at the moment, and that affecting LEGO too isn't excluded. After all, the Solo sets seemed to always be on clearance (from what I have heard).

 

What do you think? 

It won't effect LEGO. The film is not going to horribly bomb to the point where it's the main factor in toy sales. 

Perhaps a more fruitful question would be: Is Star Wars still relevant to younger (toy-buying) audiences? All I've heard is some anecdotes here or there, but there isn't concrete statistical data to back it up. I personally have no idea. And a far broader question: are physical toys still relevant to younger audiences?

3 hours ago, Lego David said:

I made this topic with no intention of getting there. So don't blame me for that. I am on this site to disscuss LEGO, and if the disscussion shifts off-topic, it's not my fault.

By the way you first asked your question, you had to have had some idea about the direction that the thread would take. If your goal wasn't to get negative opinions on the direction of the franchise, then you should've taken your own negative opinion on the franchise out of the question. It's clear by your tone where you stand, and that's fine (you're perfectly entitled to dislike the new Star Wars films), but you can't then claim that you merely posed the question and you have no blame for the direction of the discussion.

[Lego David]

10 hours ago, montgocloud said:

If your goal wasn't to get negative opinions on the direction of the franchise, then you should've taken your own negative opinion on the franchise out of the question.

I just said what my experience has been with the ST's general reception by fans... I didn't state my own opinion (I am neutral on TLJ, by the way).

 

10 hours ago, montgocloud said:

are physical toys still relevant to younger audiences?

Don't forget though that while Star Wars toys are tanking, Marvel ones are still doing fine at this point.

[Brikkyy13]

On 11/4/2019 at 2:55 PM, montgocloud said:

Also Ben Kenobi's death in the original Star Wars, but who's counting. My favorite argument: "the original movies don't count as precedent unless I want them to."

EDIT: also the wampa scene!

EDIT 2: also the original Death Star explosion! (compare that explosion to the destruction of Alderaan and you'll see it)

I completely forgot about these examples, I'm not picking and choosing scenes. Of course the original trilogy movies set precedence for the whole franchise. If anything, these scenes help my argument more as they go to show that TLJ used slow-motion in the completely wrong way. The 3 examples of slow motion you've given from the original trilogy are all used for one shot to emphasize an important action. This same style of emphasis is used in TFA's only slow mo scene. While TFA's slow-mo extends beyond one shot, it emphasizes the force awakening within Rey as she defeats Kylo Ren. Additionally, it's not used to completely slow down a movement in an action scene but rather used to slow down the pace of the duel, much like the cave scene in ESB. Then there's TLJ, where slow-mo litters a large amount of the action scenes in the film. The technique loses all effect when overused. 

On 11/4/2019 at 5:37 PM, LEGODrongo01 said:

Ah, so you loved Rogue One. That makes everything youre saying make a lot more sense. I bet you loved all those really cool action scenes with Darth Vader and big explosions. And what about all those great characters who have no character? Like Donnie Yen's friend? Or 'Cassion Andor'? Or 'Bohdi Rook'? Such wonderful characters!

Oh wait, they die at the end! That must mean it's actually a really deep and emotional film.

I feel like you've completely missed the point of Rogue One. It's a war movie about stealing the plans to the Death Star. It isn't necessarily trying to be deep and emotional, it's trying to show the sacrifice that lead to the rebellion getting the Death Star plans. On the character front, all we need to know is who the major players are and what they stand for.

Jyn, Krennic and Galen, the main characters of the film, are excellent examples of character development. As for the supporting cast, they're developed to the extent that the film needs them to be. Baze Malbus has no real effect on the plot beyond providing firepower, his character is small enough that he doesn't need to be fleshed out beyond "his home was destroyed by the Death Star." Cassian Andor is shown to be a man with questionable morals, the perfect fit for someone on a mission to assassinate an imperial science officer. Bodhi Rook is a messenger, he sets the entire film in motion. After that he's completely unnecessary to the plot, Cassian has been shown to be a pilot too, but Bodhi sticks around because he knows what the Death Star is and what needs to be done. When the Battle of Scariff begins, the movie runs out of time for further character development, but it's okay because the characters don't need it. We know enough about them to justify their actions in the battle. Believe it or not, watching these characters fight for what they believe in is enough for some people to be sad when they die.

[montgocloud]

5 hours ago, Lego David said:

I just said what my experience has been with the ST's general reception by fans... I didn't state my own opinion (I am neutral on TLJ, by the way).

 

Don't forget though that while Star Wars toys are tanking, Marvel ones are still doing fine at this point.

But what are the actual statistical numbers? I'm not either accepting nor refuting your idea that "Marvel is doing fine" and "Star Wars is tanking," but I'd like to see the actual numbers and not anecdotal evidence. As I outlined in my post above, perception isn't always reality. Marvel could be suffering the same dip in sales.

[Sucram]

18 hours ago, Brikkyy13 said:

I feel like you've completely missed the point of Rogue One. It's a war movie about stealing the plans to the Death Star. It isn't necessarily trying to be deep and emotional, it's trying to show the sacrifice that lead to the rebellion getting the Death Star plans. On the character front, all we need to know is who the major players are and what they stand for.

Jyn, Krennic and Galen, the main characters of the film, are excellent examples of character development. As for the supporting cast, they're developed to the extent that the film needs them to be. Baze Malbus has no real effect on the plot beyond providing firepower, his character is small enough that he doesn't need to be fleshed out beyond "his home was destroyed by the Death Star." Cassian Andor is shown to be a man with questionable morals, the perfect fit for someone on a mission to assassinate an imperial science officer. Bodhi Rook is a messenger, he sets the entire film in motion. After that he's completely unnecessary to the plot, Cassian has been shown to be a pilot too, but Bodhi sticks around because he knows what the Death Star is and what needs to be done. When the Battle of Scariff begins, the movie runs out of time for further character development, but it's okay because the characters don't need it. We know enough about them to justify their actions in the battle. Believe it or not, watching these characters fight for what they believe in is enough for some people to be sad when they die.

I knew someone was going to say this. Saying "its a war movie" is no excuse for the characters being so one note. Have you seen an actual war movie? The good ones have actual characters we care about, instead of people who just shoot at things until they die. Plus, the film still tries to have emotional character moments so it clearly is trying to have real characters. It just fails horribly.

[Brikkyy13]

6 hours ago, LEGODrongo01 said:

I knew someone was going to say this. Saying "its a war movie" is no excuse for the characters being so one note. Have you seen an actual war movie? The good ones have actual characters we care about, instead of people who just shoot at things until they die. Plus, the film still tries to have emotional character moments so it clearly is trying to have real characters. It just fails horribly.

Did you even read my post beyond the first sentence? Beyond Jyn, the characters don’t need to have more development because that’s not what the movie is about. The point of the film is to show how the rebels got the plans to the Death Star. All we need to know is who was on the mission and what they stood for. The characters are real. If you had any sense of empathy you would feel the emotional moments.

[Sucram]

18 hours ago, Brikkyy13 said:

Did you even read my post beyond the first sentence? Beyond Jyn, the characters don’t need to have more development because that’s not what the movie is about. The point of the film is to show how the rebels got the plans to the Death Star. All we need to know is who was on the mission and what they stood for. The characters are real. If you had any sense of empathy you would feel the emotional moments.

Wouldve been better if those characters were just not in the movie. Plus I just want to bring up that scene where 'Baze' calls Jyn Erso his 'little sister'.... like what? Have those characters spoken a word to eachother?

[Robianco]

I think the phrase brothers in arms is relevant here. They're about to go into battle. To probably die. Referring to someone as a sister or brother as that happens isn't such as s stretch. it doesn't need scenes of emotional bonding between them.

It may also show her that even though her family has been killed she's not alone. She has family in the people around her. 

These are movies with space wizards and laser swords and gravity altering missiles. Are we really dissecting the language between characters like this?

Movies where a woman can have her entire homeward blown up and yet give sympathy to a man who has just seen a relative stranger die? If you've seen the notes of just how much Lucas's script changed throughout the development of ANH he was pretty much making it up as he went along. 

Nobody has to like any movie but I think if you're dissecting RO like this then I'm not sure what your criteria for enjoying a movie are.

[Digger of Bricks]

Screen Rant - Star Wars Officially On Disney Hiatus After Rise of Skywalker

Quote

Brent Lang, Executive Editor for Variety, shared a statement from Iger on Twitter confirming an upcoming hiatus for new feature Star Wars movies. Iger did not comment on how long the hiatus will last or what this means for the release dates already secured for future Star Wars films. He did, however, mention that there will be "lots of activity on TV front" through Disney+

[JekPorkchops]

Just to throw my two cents in here, I believe that once Episode 9 hits and the next one or two waves will have some products related to it, we'll see a massive slowdown in LSW products in general (during the movie hiatus). Additionally, I think Lego will be more free to do what they wish (next to releasing sets for the new TV shows of course) and I think they'll use the old model of (re)releasing a nice mix of PT and OT sets. I do believe the ST will not be revisited as much again in the future as the regular PT/OT sets.

[Digger of Bricks]

4 hours ago, JekPorkchops said:

Just to throw my two cents in here, I believe that once Episode 9 hits and the next one or two waves will have some products related to it, we'll see a massive slowdown in LSW products in general (during the movie hiatus). Additionally, I think Lego will be more free to do what they wish (next to releasing sets for the new TV shows of course) and I think they'll use the old model of (re)releasing a nice mix of PT and OT sets. I do believe the ST will not be revisited as much again in the future as the regular PT/OT sets.

Until Disney's got a gameplan down, I'm banking my hopes on Lego finally developing at least one new in-house Space theme to follow-up 2013's Galaxy Squad. 

[Vindicare]

On 10/19/2019 at 7:19 AM, Flieger said:

That's the point: the toy sales during the PT/TCW era were good. The current toy sales are not.

https://www.jeditemplearchives.com/2019-09-13-is-history-just-repeating-itself/

Casually accepting the media narrative of the 'loud minority' does not change the facts: low toy sales, shows aimed at kids that failed miserably where TCW succeeded, and a Star Wars movie outfight floppng for the first time (when R1 did do well enough despite not being a 'main film').

How was The Last Jedi an “outright flop” when it made $1.3B worldwide(gross of $620M, opening of $220M, cost of $317M)? Or were you talking about Solo? 

 

Either way, there’s still enough fans out there that love or like what Star Wars is still doing, so they’re going to see the movies & most likely buy the merch.

 

 

I knew I made a mistake clicking & reading this thread, as far as I did....I honestly can’t stand the negativity. The ones who don't like the new movies think they know best & that’s all there is to it. There’s millions upon millions of SW fans across this planet. Just because you know a handful who don’t like the new stuff doesn’t mean anything. Of the few comment threads I’ve read, it seems mostly positive, because it’s Star Wars, not everyone hates it. I’d wager there’s still FAR more people who are ready & waiting to see Ep. IX than those who are not. 

[Lego David]

On 11/10/2019 at 2:45 AM, Digger of Bricks said:

Until Disney's got a gameplan down, I'm banking my hopes on Lego finally developing at least one new in-house Space theme to follow-up 2013's Galaxy Squad.

That's exactly the same thing I'm hoping for.

[Digger of Bricks]

5 minutes ago, Lego David said:

That's exactly the same thing I'm hoping for.

Despite being live-action rather than animated, I feel Disney+ shows like The Mandalorian still won't have as much of a "pull-out-all-stops" presence as cinematic ventures would, hopefully affecting in-house Space themes coexistence alongside Star Wars just as much as The Clone Wars' tie-in sets had done.

But then again, this is Disney we're talking about here... 

[Retro]

@Vindicare I agree with everything you said here, for what it's worth.

@LEGODrongo01 I agree with all your points about Rogue One. I like most Star Wars related things, but if I had to sit down and watch one film now, i'd put Solo and Rogue One 9th and 10th in order of preference (there are 10 in total, right?). 

[Robianco]

6 hours ago, Retro said:

@Vindicare I agree with everything you said here, for what it's worth.

@LEGODrongo01 I agree with all your points about Rogue One. I like most Star Wars related things, but if I had to sit down and watch one film now, i'd put Solo and Rogue One 9th and 10th in order of preference (there are 10 in total, right?). 

Out of interest. What would you put 1-3?

[Retro]

8 hours ago, Robianco said:

Out of interest. What would you put 1-3?

Well, my favourite is Return of The Jedi. Maybe because it was the first one I saw. But I like that 80s production glow. I like the Jabba story arc where everything's going wrong until the Sarlaac battle. I like the film from the very first scene with Darth Vader arriving and chatting with Moff Jerjerrod. Everything is perfect there, really. From the design of the Shuttle to the cinematography, the lighting, script, acting.

Next is Empire. And after that I would be pressed to choose. Favourite scenes include Leia meeting Wicket, Luke meeting Vader in the Freezing Chamber, Darth Maul's double lightasaber reveal, Palpatine's arrest, the Speeder Chase after Zam Wesell. My favourite Sequel scene is Rey shouting at Finn for a spanner. It's a bit Fawlty Towers.

[Robianco]

Jedi was the first one I saw at the cinema back in 1983. I just missed going to see Empire.

There is no right and wrong answers to what is someone's favourite part of the SW Universe but it is interesting to see how people see things differently. Empire is my favourite film and has been for a long, long time. But I actually put RO second only to that. Followed by ANH and then Jedi.

[MAB]

On 11/9/2019 at 8:04 PM, JekPorkchops said:

Just to throw my two cents in here, I believe that once Episode 9 hits and the next one or two waves will have some products related to it, we'll see a massive slowdown in LSW products in general (during the movie hiatus). Additionally, I think Lego will be more free to do what they wish (next to releasing sets for the new TV shows of course) and I think they'll use the old model of (re)releasing a nice mix of PT and OT sets. I do believe the ST will not be revisited as much again in the future as the regular PT/OT sets.

In 20 years time the sequels will probably be revisited just as much as the OT and PT are now. The prequels were treated as the worse thing ever to happen to Star Wars when they came out, aside from the Christmas special. But now that the kids that grew up with them have aged they are seen with a different view. I imagine the same will happen with the sequels.