If Rise of Skywalker fails/under performs, how would that affect LEGO?

[tfcrafter]

This thread's going to get shut down reeaallll soon...

[Flieger]

Well, that's what happens when people feel the need to use terms like 'SJW' or 'diverse cast' while discussing toys.

[Sucram]

44 minutes ago, Flieger said:

Ok, good for you. However, most people are not as oblivious as you are, regardless of their political views.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/dec/19/last-jedi-left-wing-jeremy-corbyn-star-wars-champion-grassroots

https://www.filminquiry.com/last-jedi-failure-masculinity/

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2017/12/star-wars-last-jedi-laura-dern-admiral-holdo-listen-to-women

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/thinking-man/liberal-identity-politics-has-ruined-star-wars-fanboys/

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/rotten-tomatoes-last-jedi-ratings-bots_n_5a38cb78e4b0860bf4aab5b1

https://www.publicmedievalist.com/last-jedi-fox/

 

 

 

Most of those articles are not even about the movie, but the controversy surrounding it. And the one about feminism isn't convincing at all. The casino plot is obviously political, but people are reading too deep into the other stuff

[TeeNuggetTa]

1 hour ago, Flieger said:

Ok, good for you. However, most people are not as oblivious as you are, regardless of their political views.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/dec/19/last-jedi-left-wing-jeremy-corbyn-star-wars-champion-grassroots

https://www.filminquiry.com/last-jedi-failure-masculinity/

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2017/12/star-wars-last-jedi-laura-dern-admiral-holdo-listen-to-women

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/thinking-man/liberal-identity-politics-has-ruined-star-wars-fanboys/

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/rotten-tomatoes-last-jedi-ratings-bots_n_5a38cb78e4b0860bf4aab5b1

https://www.publicmedievalist.com/last-jedi-fox/

 

 

 

Star Wars has always had a politically left leaning, if I were to put all those websites on a political spectrum bias site they would probably have right wing bias which is why they are stringing the star wars liberal agenda.

A racially diverse cast is not political at all, no mention of black lives matter or anything to do with girl power of Latinos and asians have been mentioned. They were just open to a diverse cast as Finn and Rose were planned to be white but changed their decision as they wanted the best actor.

[Lego David]

Hey guys, we are talking about LEGO here. Please let's stick to the original discussion and not go off-topic.

Edited October 20, 2019 by Lego David

[Kim-Kwang-Seok]

2 hours ago, TeeNuggetTa said:

Star Wars has always had a politically left leaning, if I were to put all those websites on a political spectrum bias site they would probably have right wing bias which is why they are stringing the star wars liberal agenda.

Im sorry to go into detail more here but there's a missconception especially present within the US politics: George Lucas was a wealthy white film maker; a new hope was a white sausage fest; like most movies of that time. Sure Leia was kind of revolutionary but except for that: After critizism they introduced Lando and with the prequels we got even more diversity - for the same reasons we get it now: to attact new audiences. It's all about marketing and profit. The overall plot of the OT was also just efficient story background for the time. People still knew the nazis so they used this concept without going into too much detail.
With the prequels Lucas wanted to proof himself as a Rebel and filmmaker which is how they got more political.

But still non of that is "left", from the prequels upwards it is just liberal - mostly for marketing reasons. The aggressive pseudofeminism within Holdo's character also fits perfectly in an ideology that belives in competition, survival of the fittest as well as authoritarianism. You can call it feminism but it's like calling Margret Thatcher a feminist.

-----------------------------------
anyway: I don't know what deals TLG has with Disney but I can imagine them having more bargening power in case the future movies underperform. There's just way too much overinvestement in toys for the new movies - you can say a lot about the prequels but the toy market was attractive for this particula target audience and it continued to be for a smaller but loyal part of them with the Clone Wars.

[Brikkyy13]

There's no doubt in my mind that Episode IX will under perform. I know a lot of Star Wars fans, and I can count on one hand the number of people who are interested in seeing TRoS. You can try and claim that it's a vocal minority, but there is a very large group of fans who disliked TLJ. I do believe that poor marketing and the May release date was part of the reason Solo performed terribly at the box office, but TLJ definitely has had a larger impact than anyone wants to admit. Solo has been available to watch through numerous avenues for about a year and a half now, and there are still several Star Wars fans who have not watched it and have no intention of watching it because of TLJ. Of the fans I've spoken to both online and IRL, I'd say only 25% have seen Solo. 

What does that mean for LEGO Star Wars? I don't think it's going away any time soon, the toys are still profitable. As others have said the market for the younger audience has moved towards gaming, and with that in mind I think the next LEGO Star Wars game next year is sure to be a hit. LEGO has already demonstrated a shift towards the digital market with hidden side and boost, if those perform well I'm sure we'll see something similar start to appear in other themes including Star Wars. It will be very interesting to see what sort of products LEGO releases over the next couple of years. If anything I think we'll see a reduced number of Star Wars sets and focus shifting to other themes. 

I think our biggest concern as fans should be Disney asking for more money in licensing fees and set prices going up as a result. Considering how sleazy Disney's business practices have been these last couple of years it's a very real concern.

[LiLmeFromDaFuture]

STAR WARS

Episode    

The Fanbase Divided

 

These are politically sensitive times.  

What once brought people together

now divides as sides are taken

and beliefs come into view.

 

Meanwhile, the brand struggles

to attract new fans against a world of

marketable super heroes and the

addiction known as Fortnite!

 

Now, its only hope is to increase

engagement with its vast universe

and save its surviving fanbase.

Or become a relic from a long time ago,

fallen from its prime, far, far away… 

 

[hachiroku]

I'm convinced that the reboot of the sequels universe/trilogy is inevitable. We will have eventually a "true Episode VII" with a younger Luke, Leia and Han, and see the new Republic, the Jedi academy, new enemies...

I wouldn't worry about Lego and IX underperforming, because Disney will never stop trying until Star Wars becomes as successful as the MCU.

 

 

 

Edited October 20, 2019 by hachiroku

[jdubbs]

12 hours ago, tfcrafter said:

This thread's going to get shut down reeaallll soon...

Can that happen sooner rather than later?

[tfcrafter]

27 minutes ago, jdubbs said:

Can that happen sooner rather than later?

Oh I certainly hope so!

Bottom line is - Star Wars has always been political. The Empire was based on America's involvement in Vietnam, and Lucas was particularly vocal against Nixon and the Republican Party. Even the prequels were political, Lucas strongly disliked Republicans Newt Gingrich and Trent Lott, and named two of the antagonists, Nute Gunray and Lott Dod, after them. Pop culture will always be shaped by sociopolitical trends, that is just inevitable, and it'll continue happening.

From what I gather, the thread was just supposed to be about how Lego's sales would perform in the event that Rise of Skywalker doesn't do well in theatres. But it didn't even take 10 posts for people to start bringing up politics and resort to name calling - but I mean, of course it did, because what else would people do - actually stay on topic? If you like the new movies, that's fine. If you hate them, that's fine. Nobody cares either way. But this is a Lego forum, and the thread has, predictably, devolved into yet another thread about Disney Star Wars' politics.

Can someone get a moderator in here to shut this thread down?

[Flieger]

11 hours ago, TeeNuggetTa said:

Star Wars has always had a politically left leaning, if I were to put all those websites on a political spectrum bias site they would probably have right wing bias which is why they are stringing the star wars liberal agenda.

Actually, only The Telegraph is known to be a conservative newspaper, supporting the Torys. The majority of the sites and newspapers linked have various degrees of liberal leaning; The Guardian endorsed Labour in 2017 e.g. And if you had bothered to read the articles, you would have known. But that is where we are now: people preferring to judge and condemn ('right wing'), rather than to learn and understand.

 

[Nom Carver]

I used to be a huge SW fan over more than 20 years and the last jedi did catalized my resignation from the SW brand. I already had realized how dumb some aspects of the whole brand actually were but overlooked it due to my fond memories to the theme, I actually had fun with rogue one and the force awakens, but TLJ did suck so hard to me that I never got around seeing solo (I mean who cares about that story) and I no longer have interest on knowing anithing about that universe at all (I just want to see what kind of a train wreck the next movie will be).

Regarding to my lego set consumption habits, I invested so much on SW sets that, when I disasembled them I relized how bland the color selection is, so much that it limited my posibilities of happy and colorful builds. The SW brand is covertly so violent that evrithing that came out of from my newly spare parts has a very militaristic stile (which is not that big of a deal to me) and the figs are almost too specific to be used on any other thing.

I have found a new preference in city and creator sets with more joyfull themes and much more interesting figs, parts and colors; I actually hope licensed themes disapear to be replaced by original lego themes like castle, pirates and space like in the old days but we all know that lego is a company and they are all about the money the themes produce to them.

[LiLmeFromDaFuture]

These films have more than enough material to make into sets, but I do believe the sinking interest in TROS will affect the span of the product line.  (Han Alone is a good example of this). 

Another factor to take into account is the design process of sets.  Even with the wealth of material to work from, some designs may sound good on paper but work out poorly or too complicated as a LEGO toy.

[Brikkyy13]

17 minutes ago, LiLmeFromDaFuture said:

Even with the wealth of material to work from, some designs may sound good on paper but work out poorly or too complicated as a LEGO toy.

The first order heavy scout walker and AT-ST are perfect examples of this. Although, those sets were also in that awful mid-range price bracket that made them far too expensive for what they were. $90 for half an AT-ST, what the hell was LEGO thinking?

[LiLmeFromDaFuture]

17 hours ago, Brikkyy13 said:

The first order heavy scout walker and AT-ST are perfect examples of this. Although, those sets were also in that awful mid-range price bracket that made them far too expensive for what they were. $90 for half an AT-ST, what the hell was LEGO thinking?

Yep price is another factor to affect interest in merchandise.  That AT-HS had nice idea for its locomotion but walker's design itself is far less striking than the other menacing-looking, top heavy, walkers on skinny legs.  It also hurts that the walker did not appear in the movie but in a different application.

I guess BB-8 controlling the FO AT-ST was a cool scene but the set focused too much walker and the fact of it missing its head.  It would have been nice if they included more structures to represent the scenery and miniaturize the walker to the scale of the AT-ST in 8038, with a removable head.  Maybe then its price could be justified.

[SteamSewnEmpire]

I really, REALLY dislike the new films, and still buy some of the Lego (I just picked up an A-Wing, even though I have no plans to see TROS). I think Star Wars Lego will be fine, even if you see a refocusing onto less controversial IPs (prequels/OT). 

[thebunk]

I personally see them (LEGO) issuing less ST sets as soon as they are contractually able to.  They must know what sells well within each specific line for them.  The good news is that the Mandalorian looks great and with a new season of Clone Wars coming early next year (not to mention Obiwan), they will hopefully have some other new interesting sets along with some new remakes of classic CW sets (I hope).

[MandyNeko]

On 10/19/2019 at 11:41 AM, Flieger said:

Of course the supposed 'loud minority', which a few (not-so-silent) people want to see, cannot be not the reason for low toy sales. The reason is simple, Disney failed to attract new, younger audiences like TCW did back then. Rebels and Resistance were clearly aimed at younger audiences and failed to attract them. You cannot sell toys of your stuff to kids when the kids do not care about your stuff in the first place. I am a teacher, and Star Wars is not a thing for them. References to Marvel movies work, but not Star Wars. Not the movie, not the shows, and obviously not the toys. So no sales to them, digital or otherwise.

I took my 6-year-old son to a Mother-Son Halloween party this Saturday. I'm always curious about what are the popular series based on kids' costume choices. Most boys were elementary school aged.

There were multiple Pikachu, Mario, Luigi, and Fortnite characters. Every MCU Avenger was represented. Lots of Batman and Spider-Man. Optimus Prime. At least a dozen Harry Potters. Along with spooky standards like werewolves, vampires, and skeletons.

The only Star Wars costumes I saw were on two tiny children too young to choose their own costume whose moms wanted to dress as Rey or an Ewok. It is just not the popular thing with kids.

[SteamSewnEmpire]

23 minutes ago, MandyNeko said:

I took my 6-year-old son to a Mother-Son Halloween party this Saturday. I'm always curious about what are the popular series based on kids' costume choices. Most boys were elementary school aged.

There were multiple Pikachu, Mario, Luigi, and Fortnite characters. Every MCU Avenger was represented. Lots of Batman and Spider-Man. Optimus Prime. At least a dozen Harry Potters. Along with spooky standards like werewolves, vampires, and skeletons.

The only Star Wars costumes I saw were on two tiny children too young to choose their own costume whose moms wanted to dress as Rey or an Ewok. It is just not the popular thing with kids.

It's gotten away from what made Star Wars kid-friendly in the first place: enormous battles in exotic places, interesting aliens, cool (familiar) characters, impactful lightsaber fights, and movies that weren't a huge downer.

Kids aren't stupid - I knew from about the age of 5 that ESB was the best Star Wars movie, and that didn't come from any adult input. It was just obvious that the combination of snow planet + Luke training with a funny, interesting chap like Yoda + asteroid field + Cloud City Vader fight were all really special (plus, we got to see a lot of Han Solo being an awesome pilot and cunning, seductive rogue). I might not have been old enough yet to appreciate that the narrative was just flat-out stronger than the other films, but that realization tagged along pretty quickly. Yes, the movie is "dark," but Luke's hand is quickly replicated with a more powerful cyborg replacement, which I frankly thought was awesome right off. 

By contrast, the new movies have very little alien influence (if Chewbacca playing with Porgs really counts then I'm a shoe), the planets are all kinds of has-beens (we've seen a desert world, a bit of a snow world, a "salt" world [that looks just like a snow world] and an Ireland world), there's almost no urgency or sentiment tied to the lightsaber duels, and the biggest emotional moments have been derived from killing off two beloved characters. No, kids probably aren't picking apart the dozens of ways that The Last Jedi let the entire series down in terms of plot holes, dropped story arcs, nonsensical narrative diversions, etc. (in the process actually damaging the Star Wars brand), but it doesn't matter, because the "hooks" aren't there to get them invested in the first place.

I'm going to be really, REALLY shocked if TROS comes anywhere close to Disney's proclaimed hopes. Internally, my guess is they're in full panic mode (and probably preparing to spin this off as "the chauvinistic fanbase strikes again"). 

Edited October 21, 2019 by SteamSewnEmpire

[Bartybum]

Let’s clear something up here, because I’ve seen a few dumb opinions going around.

Solo didn’t fail at the box office because it sucked, nor did it fail because a vocal minority of absolute hardline nerds decided to boycott Star Wars post-TLJ.

Solo failed at the box office because:

1. Disney didn’t bother to market it anywhere near enough, despite the fact that it was going up against Infinity War and Deadpool 2.

2. TLJ’s polarising nature left a lot of casual fans sceptical, especially of a movie that came out so soon after a polarising movie (not even half a year later). I’m friends with a lot of casual fans, and the general consensus is that TLJ had major problems. I’ve never seen anyone in person actually say it was a good movie, fan or not. I can absolutely imagine people not having really wanted to see Solo because they didn’t trust it to be good.

3. People didn’t really want Solo. I sure as hell didn’t (despite really liking it in the end).

Edited October 22, 2019 by Bartybum

[Arkeeos]

God this thread has a lot of wrong information, also https://deadline.com/2019/10/star-wars-rising-skywalker-pre-sales-nearly-double-avengers-engame-1202765636/

Professional tracking hasn't even started for TROS, so you're making that up. 

And the teaser trailer is the most viewed star wars teaser ever, so I have no idea where you getting the "no hype" thing from. 

Edited October 22, 2019 by Arkeeos

[MAB]

On 10/20/2019 at 4:21 PM, tfcrafter said:

From what I gather, the thread was just supposed to be about how Lego's sales would perform in the event that Rise of Skywalker doesn't do well in theatres.

Note also that it was started in a negative way by someone that has a history of being anti-licensed themes in general and anti-Star Wars in particular when it comes to LEGO sets.

All tie-in merchandising for movies seems to be down these days compared to a decade ago, and way down on the heyday of the late 1970s and 1980s when toy merchandising made Star Wars what it is. Yet LEGO still does well out of Harry Potter, Frozen, etc. It will be interesting to see where LEGO goes with SW as kids tend even further towards video games. If some good LEGO SW games come out, I wonder if they will make sets of the games.

[Digger of Bricks]

Deadline - ‘Star Wars’ Setback: ‘Game Of Thrones’ Duo David Benioff & D.B. Weiss Exit Trilogy

Quote

David Benioff and D.B. Weiss, the duo who in 2011 launched the singular screen sensation known as Game of Thrones, have walked away from their much-publicized deal with Disney’s Lucasfilm to launch a feature film trilogy in 2022.

Benioff and Weiss were supposed to usher in the post-Skywalkera era of the Star Wars brand with a 2022 new-start story that would stake out a new frontier for the era-defining cinema brand created by George Lucas. The Emmy-winning pair cited their historic deal with Netflix. They said their enthusiasm for Star Wars remains boundless but, regrettably, their schedule is full up.

[gotoAndLego]

7 was a good movie, while 8 wasn't as well received, so let's assume that 9 will be at least as good as 7. All the "I'm never seeing another SW movie" complainers will go see it once they hear it is good. Despite all that, Disney has literally made three billion dollars on the worldwide box office of episodes 7 & 8, not to mention DVD sales, streaming, and deals with airlines like Delta who have the new movies on their planes. Disney is laughing all the way to the bank.

Edited October 30, 2019 by gotoAndLego