BrickWild

42110 - Land Rover Defender - MODs and Improvements

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6 hours ago, Flecktyphus said:

And again, it's only intended for manual adjustment of the ride height/suspension stiffness, so I don't have a need to motorize/automate it with PF. Unless the switch you mention is necessary to hold the pressure needed for such operations?

You are spot on here. With a setup as you have shown there will always be some bleed of air from the cylinders. That is why you should use a compressor with a pressure switch. If you plan on using traditional springs along with the small pneumatic cylinders the need for a compressor and pressure switch will not be as big as with a full pneumatic suspension, but it will sag over time (depending on the use, but 5 min + standing still will change the characteristics, less it there is a lot of compression on the suspension (off-road conditions)). So you have to evaluate your use case.

To get a smoother suspension it is also helpful with a sprung reservoir. This will be able to compensate for large wheel movements, without the suspension getting very stiff. This is how Citroen has always used "air-raid", and it is well proven and works.

For a simpler setup where you don't want adjustable ride height or adjustable stiffness it can be solved much easier with a closed loop system. If you just want a more progressive dampening and relay on the spring shocks for ride height you could simply close the loop by connecting the upper and lower inputs of the cylinder directly. And by crossing left side upper input to the right side lower input, and visa versa you could also have a pneumatic stabilizer...

There are a lot of possibilities. I suggest getting a medium cylinder, 4x small cylinder and a pump and start experimenting. Think up a few scenarios you would like to test and do it. There is a lot of learning to be gained from working with the pneumatic system i practice. Best of luck with your project.

PS: I've even experimented with constant ride height systems for trailer no matter the load. That was a hard nut, and I never could make it compact enough to be practical... Thought the experiments made me learn a lot of stuff about hysteresis :)

-ED-

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Hi there!

Thanks for all the cool mods in this thread! 

I started modding my defender a few weeks back. So far, I have implemented the rear tailgate rubber band tension mod from @Coolusername, the roof rack fog lights, lockable doors and the bar to keep the bonnet open from @twoofive, the door-limiter from @JunkstyleGio.

I have made two mods of my own. One - extremely simple one - is a roof tail light "bar".

The other - is making the passenger seat fold to provide access to the back seat as it would in a real 2-door SUV. For this model - it also gives a better look at more of the gears and axles from the side! The folding mechanism includes a lever "lock" that you must articulate to allow the seat to tip forward.  I'm not thrilled with the way the folding mechanism attaches to the seat using studs, but I was unable to find another way to attach it that didn't interfere with the door hinge assembly.

Pictures are below, along with links to download the stud.io files!

IMG_8066.jpg

IMG_8067.jpg

42110%20Land%20Rover%20Defender%20Foldin

IMG_8069.jpg

 

Edited by alademann
Bad image url

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On 1/9/2020 at 7:51 PM, Leewan said:

I've recently built the pimped up version, but with a few changes. Using a 8T gear after the central diff makes all of the gears in the transmission spin really fast, and make the vehicle hard to push in 1st and reverse gears, because of the induced resistance. So I paired the central diff with a 16T gear instead (the change was made at step 24 of the rear block in the instructions), and geared up the engine with a 24T/8T pair (steps 3 and 4 of the DNR / Hi-Lo module).

Leewan, thanks for sharing your findings! I definitely like jb70 Pimped version much, much better than the original! Indeed,16T better for central diff otherwise drivetrain is too fast and it's hard to move the vehicle. However, I didn't find an easy way to swap for 24T/8T for engine at steps 3-4 of DNR/HiLo mode as suggested. Can you please provide a bit more details? I put 8T at the crankshaft and then was trying to put 24T using grey 4L axle instead of brown 3L - but there is not enough space due to the black T-shape holding steering axle. Appreciate your guidance, thanks!    

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3 hours ago, Urbal said:

However, I didn't find an easy way to swap for 24T/8T for engine at steps 3-4 of DNR/HiLo mode as suggested.

Here's how I did it :

49527669357_ab520226b1_c.jpg

 

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Leewan, many thanks for elaborated explanation! Works great!

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Based on your solutions in this forum I compiled a new release v1.3 of Pimp up my Land Rover with free PDF building instructions.

The honors go to @Leewan

On 1/9/2020 at 8:51 PM, Leewan said:

I've recently built the pimped up version, but with a few changes. Using a 8T gear after the central diff makes all of the gears in the transmission spin really fast, and make the vehicle hard to push in 1st and reverse gears, because of the induced resistance. So I paired the central diff with a 16T gear instead (the change was made at step 24 of the rear block in the instructions), and geared up the engine with a 24T/8T pair (steps 3 and 4 of the DNR / Hi-Lo module).

Thanks a lot for your improvement. It reduces friction by slowing down the gearbox and reduces the "hard-to-push" effect, when you select reverse gear while the gearbox is in high gears.

Many thanks go also to @Pattspatt

On 1/30/2020 at 4:15 AM, Pattspatt said:

I’ve made a “Easy” Body-Removal mod for the Land Rover. Maybe it’s not quite easy, since there are some ~28 odd connections between the body and the chassis still. But they go pretty fast, and I’m happy with it. 
lOQcG7Q.jpg
I was trying not to sacrifice sturdiness with this mod, and on that note at least, I think I succeeded! 
<...>

Then there are pins beneath the seats, behind the front wheels, and in front near the engine. There’s a photo overview at https://imgur.com/gallery/8f9xc0A.

Once all the connection points are removed (and the winch is let out), the entire body lifts off the chassis intact, with seats still attached to the body. I’m thinking if anyone wants to do a “poor man’s lift” of a few studs, this mod could make it very easy. Of course, just reattaching the body to the chassis a few studs higher isn’t very realistic compared to a lift in real life, but hey, this is still an option!

If you want to do the mod yourself, I’ve made a more detailed how-to album at https://imgur.com/gallery/LNzFsq8

Pattspatt found some very clever solutions for this Body-Removal. I took his solution as a base and added some additional changes in chassis and body for more rigidity of the body and to make the mount / remove process of the body more easier to use.

I think, this is a great improvement for this MOD! 

 

Finally many thanks to @Urbal!

He asked me, if I had some plans to add Ackermann steering to the Land Rover. I already thought about it, but I didn't succeed so far. But Urbal's question challenged me and finally I found a solution:

On 2/6/2020 at 12:30 AM, jb70 said:

I have redesigned the front axle and integrated Ackermann steering. To do this I needed to reverse the steering rack from rear to front. As result I could even remove some gears and simplified the steering. It works pretty fine:

1280x1280.jpg

I plan to add this feature to Pimp up my Land Rover in the next weeks. 

 

So thanks a lot for contributing and have fun to pimp up your Land Rover!

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Hi

I made a lot of changes for a while, I share with you :

*Pimp up my Land Rover v1.2
*V6 engine
*HOG shifting
*Bull bars
*Improved front lights
*Front light bar
*Tail ligth bar
*Doors lock
*Doors limiter
*Body lift off
*Coupling ball
*Trailers

Miss: Ackermann steering...

I see that jb70 just updated, thanks :snicker:

I will post in real when I received all my parts...:wink:

 

Thanks to :

BrickWild
Coolusername
twoofive
JunkstyleGio
jb70
Pattspatt
Leewan
alademann
BALBO85

Sans titre12.jpg

Edited by Tonyst4rk80

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6 hours ago, jb70 said:

...

Pattspatt found some very clever solutions for this Body-Removal. I took his solution as a base and added some additional changes in chassis and body for more rigidity of the body and to make the mount / remove process of the body more easier to use.

I think, this is a great improvement for this MOD! 

...

So thanks a lot for contributing and have fun to pimp up your Land Rover!

Hey, wonderful! I’m flattered to have (some of) my work included in your instructions. Looking forward to trying out v1.3!

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Hi. I was hoping I could get some help. I am building the Land Rover set but the gears don’t seem to want to engage. I bought the power functions so I could run it and try to spot the problem but I just can’t tell what’s going on. I’ve taken it apart twice now and I currently have it so I can see all the gears but it isn’t helping. I contacted LEGO and they said I should watch build videos but what I really need is a schematic that shows me what should be moving. Can anyone help me?

3ACD3108-D6FC-4F7C-B553-68D25566AB3E.jpeg

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15 hours ago, jb70 said:

...

Finally many thanks to @Urbal!

He asked me, if I had some plans to add Ackermann steering to the Land Rover. I already thought about it, but I didn't succeed so far. But Urbal's question challenged me and finally I found a solution

...

Many thanks for being honoured with your mentioning! I was actually trying to find a solution for Ackermann steering geometry behind the front axle - as I believe it is true to the new Defender - but also didn't find the one. However, just after your post I have found out that old Defenders used to have steering box and links in front of the axle! Hence steering guards are so popular for offroading Defenders.  So your solution is very reminiscent to old Defs!

I'm ordering a longer steering rack and anticipating an enjoyable V1.3 build, again appreciate all your efforts to pull all the great changes together!

P.S. Quick question on the removable body (which is again quite a reference to old body-on-chassis Defs! ;) - did you find any significant impact on overall structural rigidity of the vehicle?

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5 hours ago, Urbal said:

P.S. Quick question on the removable body (which is again quite a reference to old body-on-chassis Defs! ;) - did you find any significant impact on overall structural rigidity of the vehicle?

I am very happy with the removable body. It is very sturdy: sturdy and flexible, when removed, sturdy and stiff, when mounted to the chassis.

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21 hours ago, jb70 said:

The honors go to @Leewan

Happy to help, even if that was a meager contribution. :wink: I think I'll take the Defender apart to build @grohl's Stadium Truck, and after that I'll build the V1.3 of the pimped up Defender.

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 @jb70 Thanks for a quick reply on the body stiffness, sounds great! 

Now, I have modelled suggested Ackermann setup with available parts (and removal of one shock absorber on each , and it looked to me as Anti-Ackermann geometry used for racing cars, not offroad ones. Sorry if I'm saying nonsense, but to me it looks like that and steering is actually quite hard due to resistance of the outer wheel... Again, I would hate to add some noise, but appreciate if you could double check. Thanks!

I've shared the photo of my PoC here

Update: I believe anti (or reversed) Ackermann effect is there because of 1 stud offset is done into the wheel, not out. The latter is not possible though due to special Defender rims...

Update2: I think the catch is that I put suggested geometry in the V1.2 setup with steering rack behind the front axle - apparently changing the axle positing and steering rods would change Anti- to just Ackermann :)

Edited by Urbal

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As others have done, I have substituted the silly original engine for a V6 using the standard Technic cylinders etc. Or at least, I will, I only have engine parts from a flat-4 currently.

I've retained drive to/from the cabin steering wheel via a few chassis mods to give space to move the lower UJ further back to clear the rear N/S engine casing. Its tight but there's clearance everywhere, just.

By a stroke of luck, the recess in the bonnet underneath the central bulge is perfectly placed to clear an inlet plenum

20200220_161814

 

20200220_161825

 

20200220_162655

 

Edited by Edward011778
Added images

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@jb70 I have built V1.3 of PUMLR and still believe that what we have there is a slight Anti-Ackerman geometry. Here is a quick snapshot of different types and to me it looks like anti/reverse version

images-3.png.f8382db16742a3baca2f2b60a7184a39.png

I believe the challenge with Ackerman geometry is there because of the Defender rims, when you put a slight offset it touches the rim a bit and that causes a light friction. Here is the photo to depict the issue. 

For now I will return to V1.2 with drivetrain adjustments, as it turns better than V1.3. 

 

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13 hours ago, Urbal said:

 I have built V1.3 of PUMLR and still believe that what we have there is a slight Anti-Ackerman geometry. 

I see where you’re coming from - but I think the geometry in v1.3 is correct, in theory. One way to make Ackerman geometry work is that if you trace back the angle of the tie rods when the wheels aren’t turned, the imaginary lines from the tie rods intersect in the middle of the rear axle. v1.3 moved the tie rods in front of the wheels, as in the photos in this thread: https://tbucketeer.com/threads/front-steer-steering-arms.17329/

I think the source of friction that you’ve identified is probably accurate, though (I haven’t built v1.3 yet) - but in theory, jb70’s geometry looks correct to me! 

Edited by Pattspatt

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14 hours ago, Urbal said:

@jb70 I have built V1.3 of PUMLR and still believe that what we have there is a slight Anti-Ackerman geometry. Here is a quick snapshot of different types and to me it looks like anti/reverse version

images-3.png.f8382db16742a3baca2f2b60a7184a39.png

I believe the challenge with Ackerman geometry is there because of the Defender rims, when you put a slight offset it touches the rim a bit and that causes a light friction. Here is the photo to depict the issue. 

For now I will return to V1.2 with drivetrain adjustments, as it turns better than V1.3. 

 

You have built it wrong. The +o beam should be turned 90 degrees, so the 'o' part of it is inside the rim. Look here: 42110%20Pimp%20up%20my%20Landrover-2-1-0

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15 hours ago, Urbal said:

@jb70 I have built V1.3 of PUMLR and still believe that what we have there is a slight Anti-Ackerman geometry. Here is a quick snapshot of different types and to me it looks like anti/reverse version

I believe the challenge with Ackerman geometry is there because of the Defender rims, when you put a slight offset it touches the rim a bit and that causes a light friction. Here is the photo to depict the issue. 

For now I will return to V1.2 with drivetrain adjustments, as it turns better than V1.3. 

 

I have built the latest version using the latest build instructions on bricksafe, and steering works just fine. Note: pushing it in 1st gear can be a bit tough.

Edited by emielroumen

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Posted (edited)
On 2/29/2020 at 12:02 PM, Pattspatt said:

I see where you’re coming from - but I think the geometry in v1.3 is correct, in theory. One way to make Ackerman geometry work is that if you trace back the angle of the tie rods when the wheels aren’t turned, the imaginary lines from the tie rods intersect in the middle of the rear axle. v1.3 moved the tie rods in front of the wheels, as in the photos in this thread: https://tbucketeer.com/threads/front-steer-steering-arms.17329/

I think the source of friction that you’ve identified is probably accurate, though (I haven’t built v1.3 yet) - but in theory, jb70’s geometry looks correct to me! 

Thanks for the link!

I also found other interesting materials to educate myself more on the Ackermann geometry subject, probably the most comprehensive and digestible is this one:

and must admit that I was wrong in my suspicions and @jb70 steering solution is indeed pro Ackermann! However it's not visible to me and I don't see the wheel angle different in practice - it's so much wobble in the steering mechanism so it's hard to appreciate the effect. Please share if you experience differs. 

@tomek9210 sorry for the confusion, the picture I shared was about issue on building Ackermann without moving the tie rod to the front of the axle, i.e. I was trying to build Ackermann based on V.1.2 and found that there is a bit of a friction with this setup (between the already offset rim and the steering rod), so you either need to change the rims to standard ones without offset or move the tie rod (as was done in V1.3). Hope it makes sense and no confusion here:) 

Edited by Urbal

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Based on @jb70 V1.3 front steering rack I managed to integrate radiator fan under the hood. I think it's quite nice modification as gives the one an opportunity to see how reverse gear works (i.e. that the shaft rotation is correct). Plus I made an engine 4 piston instead of six, as a) I believe it's true to most Defenders being 4-cyl diesel off-roaders b) actually makes engine movement (firing order) correct and its sound smooth and balanced.

IMG_5970.JPG.f8d0cd48886e5c60823d544a95371a31.JPG

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Has anyone done rear bumper or lift kit modifications on 42110?

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Oh, and would 23798 tires fit on the defender with a small lift?

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Posted (edited)

Hi guys

I made a few modifications on my 42110. Basically followed jb70's v1.3, but with some alterations.

Thanks to the contributors!

The trunk lock, which was one of the first things I modified, even before consulting this forum:
y4mIublRApq8VxWrbgAaLILo5PQFHmoIIp7026UF

A simplified version of twoofives door locks:
y4mWeATVaoPP7S75WjmMpBhpfDuRLCqD2N2fXDv0

Even without rubber band, the lock clicks and stays in horizontal position (only when closed). I doubled the half-height beam to reduce possible movement of the closed door.

Longer beams to increase chassis stiffness:
y4misF2bKfscWiR-ys5tCBRGFlwwooVizIMuBiVJ

The proposed Ackermann steering does improve the geometry, and reduces the number of gears, but introduces a couple of new problems:

  1. The 24-teeth gear touches the toothed beam.
    To solve this, I switched the 20 and 24 teeth gears.
  2. The toothed beam mooves quite a lot.
    To solve this, I guided it with a long axle (movie, if the link works).
  3. The steering link touches the inner edge of the rim. However, friction is minimal.
    The only way to solve this is to move the steering rack back to the orignial position: behind the front axle.

y4m5hnfA6w--oE0wjRbo8rwfhvwVO4-o5_FtNqbj

I reclined the front seats a bit, I found them to 'straight', and made the rear seats foldable, which resulted in some nice arm rests as a bonus (movie, if the link works):

y4mgUIakfrXZB0Pq3WsQIptulTJyccAdvgM0YRpM

y4mUsw1lG_NGNOrhL3XJG4CzMhKFqBq4M8WVSWsa

y4m6xUrzb4NChkfI5UEdqM9RnHA1-ZGFRqf2BnMS

 

Next post will cover my attempt to motorize steering (succeeded) and driving (work in progress).

Edited by Some Belgian LEGO Fan

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1 hour ago, Some Belgian LEGO Fan said:

The steering link touches the inner edge of the rim. However, friction is minimal.
The only way to solve this is to move the steering rack back to the orignial position: behind the front axle. 

Isn't this causing a negative Ackerman geometry?

I like the foldable seats!

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