José's Inn - Ye Olde BoBS Drinking Hole

[Capt Wolf]

14 hours ago, RobTheVan said:

Hey folks, super new to Eurobricks (created an account just for BoBS!).

Welcome aboard!

14 hours ago, RobTheVan said:

I'm working on a ship using the hull pieces from the Renegade Rummer with 4 studs in between them, and I think that should.be small enough but wanted to compare the expectations for Class 2 ships.

That is a good size for a class 2 ship. And FYI, its ok if your ship is a little bigger than the typical ship of a class, you just shouldn't build something too small for the class. Again, what you describe sounds good.

14 hours ago, RobTheVan said:

Is there a good way to read a summary of the state of the world?

Fraunces has pointed you in a good direction. Reading a few back issues of the KPA will give you some idea, as well as the other links he and Keymonous suggested.

14 hours ago, RobTheVan said:

I think I know what faction I'm going to join, but would like to build scenes covering the other factions and also the NPC nations... how does that work exactly gameplay wise?

Treat this as any role-playing game. You can control your own actions, but not the actions of others. Your story can take your sigfig to the lands of other factions, but should only define your actions. Does that make sense?

Again, welcome to BoBS!

[RobTheVan]

Thanks all for the links and tips!  Sigfig and ship coming soon!

[KotZ]

Welcome everyone to Nouveau Oleandia's celebration of the new settlement! While Mayor Emile Perrault is away, his wife Elise has called for everyone, be the Sea Rat, Oleander, Eslandolan, or even Corlander, all are welcome to celebrate in the big parade of Oleon's new settlement, Nouveau Oleandia. The place known as Crocodile Island is filled with dangers, so what better way to celebrate life than a party and parade? Join Oleon's RCB totake part in a non-military collab.

What is an RCB?

The basic idea is that one builder starts off a model, adds a certain amount of pieces, and passes the file on to the next builder who adds more bricks, and passes it on to the builder after him, and the cycle repeats until all the builders have built. It's a lot of fun seeing the model grow and the different ideas that each builder has.

Here are links to the previous builds:

RCB 1 - Café Corner : http://www.eurobrick...=48254&hl=relay

RCB 2 - Market street : http://www.eurobrick...=51092&hl=relay

RCB 3 - Classic Space outpost : http://www.eurobrick...=55873&hl=relay

RCB 4 - Pirate fort : http://www.eurobrick...=62132&hl=relay

Who can participate?

Anyone who has the lastest version of Stud.io (or start in LDD and import) and a computer powerful enough to accomodate a ~ 5000 piece model

Interested? Then read on and sign up!!!

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Rules and Guidelines:

Portions of these rules were borrowed from those of previous LDD RCB, written by ADHO15 and further developed by Brickdoctor. Even though this seems like a bunch of boring rules, this is intended to be a serious build, so do read them over before signing up.

Requirements:

• This RCB will be built using Stud.io. If you are not you prefer LDD, please build in that and let KotZ know what your preferred decals are for Stud.io. Please use LDD 4.3.11.(.12 is awful).

• You must have a Brickshelf account or Gmail account (or similar) and know how to use it.

• By the end of the build, the model will contain nearly 5,000 (plus or minus) pieces. If you think that your computer will be unable to handle such a large model, please mention it in your sign up; I will try and give you an early build spot.

Building Regulations:

• Each person can add up to 350 bricks. Use the brick counter to ensure you don't use too many bricks, otherwise portions of your addition will be deleted.

• The general rule is that you can't alter bricks placed by a previous builder. However, if absolutely necessary in order to place some vital structural elements, you are allowed to move max ten of of previous builders bricks. This allowance is not to be used to add decorations or other trivial elements.

• Use only bricks in colors that have been manufactured at some time by TLG. Use BrickLink for reference.

• Avoid 'floating' of bricks, except in special cases where friction would hold the piece in place in real life. While it is okay to have corners and spaces between buildings, please keep the whole model attached. If you need more space, add in a baseplate.

• As a general guideline please avoid use of BPPs, BURPs, and <insert that tiresome argument> pieces. Brick-built solutions usually have a more refined look to them.

• Please try to stay within the intended theme of Oleon and Mardi Gras. While the other three factions are more than welcome to participate, we hope you stay within the building design of the settlement, or make a float if you choose to represent your faction.

• Factions of this build should be limited to Nouveau Oleandia as specific, and at large the Brethren of the Brick Seas as a whole. Make sure you use relevant torso’s, headgear and faces; use your imagination. If you want to build, for example, a Mardier or Lotus float, you are welcome to do so, but please keep in line with the established buildings, floats, etc.

• This is meant to be a peaceful scene. Do not build in attacks by other factions or disasters. The build should represent a typical day around a rising town in BotBS.

• You are not allowed to set the RCB on fire. (or other similar inappropriate additions, and, of course, you may use fire where appropriate, such as torches) I reserve the right to remove anything that is inappropriate for the model.

• Just so our model doesn't end up looking half-finished, if you are one of the later builders, try not to start anything that can't be easily completed by the next builder.

• Provided that they do not violate one of the above Building Regulations, any design decisions are up to you. Just try to keep it looking polished and representative of a Nouveau Oleandertown: armoury, saloon, blacksmith, stables, sheriff's office, stage, restaurant, etc.

Guidelines for discussion of the RCB:

• It's sounds obvious, but to borrow KimT's line, stay on target!

• Do not ask when it will be your turn. I'll PM you when it is, so if you haven't been PMed saying it's your turn, it isn't your turn.

• If you do not get chosen to build, do not use this topic to complain about it to everyone. I'll try to be fair when I choose the participants, and if you want to discuss the participant selection, PM me instead.

- - -

What to do on Your Turn:

• You will receive a PM from myself notifying you when it is your turn and containing the latest version of the model. While the model will be available for download to anyone after the completion of each turn, please do not begin work on your portion before I have sent you the PM, otherwise you might lose your work and/or things could get messy.

• Download the file I sent you and add your bricks. Make sure you follow the Building Regulations. You have three days to complete and send in your model. If you do not or cannot finish in time, you will be replaced by a reserve participant.

• The file I sent you will be named "EB-RCB5 - Turn(turn number)". Rename the file using the appropriate Turn Number (ex. EB-RCB5-Turn1), upload it to your Brickshelf account (or similar) (PM me if you are unsure how to do this), and PM a link back to me.

- - -

I've read and agree to all the rules and regulations- how do I sign up?

Simple. Drop me (Kot) a PM saying that you want to participate and agree to the rules and regulations. If you have a preference as to when you take your turn, also include your 1st, 2nd, and 3rd choices for turn numbers. I cannot guarantee any particular turn. I will try to get you one of your top three choices, but understand that I can't make any promises. Also remember that I cannot be on EB 24/7 to close signups after the 20th entry, so even if you've PMed me, you are not guaranteed a spot on the roster until I send you a PM of confirmation. I will, however, choose an additional four builders for the list of reserves. There is a limit of 20 builders, and the final decision on who to include is up to the host. (me) I will try to select an good balance of both BoBS vets and newcomers. Like the previous RCBS, sign-ups are not on a first-come, first-serve basis. Sign-ups will remain open until February 20th (or until 20 builders have signed up, or if20 spots are taken by duplicates,if such has not occurred by the end of the sign up period).

This post will be updated with the participant's names and every time a turn is completed, the model will be uploaded.

- - -

Builders:

Post 00:

 

[KotZ]

Just bumping this to remind people they can sign up for the RCB.

[CapOnBOBS]

Getting over the shock and dismay of the KPA, I have a suggestion. Once the turn has ended (OCT27) and what is left is adjudication, a note or view of raw data of what went in to the system would be helpful transparency. We don't need to see where each ship goes, some secrets are best kept, but a couple weeks ago I built a mine in Fatu Hiva, not knowing or having access to know that months earlier it had been attacked. Even if the outcome of the attack was not known yet, after 27 OCT I dont think knowledge of the attack was meant to be secret. This obviously isn't about my mine, my poor poor mine, but it would have smoothed out some of the edges when a long silence with no indicators was met with news that the attack was over, city lost, and there was no opportunity to react.

"KPA bulletin dated 27 OCT, a large fleet and hundreds of WTC marines has set sail for Fatu Hiva, it looks like an all out attack, we will keep you posted"

Heck make factions write their own, @Bodi can handle it 

Edited February 8, 2021 by CapOnBOBS

[Capt Wolf]

11 minutes ago, CapOnBOBS said:

Getting over the shock and dismay of the KPA, I have a suggestion. Once the turn has ended (OCT27) and what is left is adjudication, a note or view of raw data of what went in to the system would be helpful transparency. We don't need to see where each ship goes, some secrets are best kept, but a couple weeks ago I built a mine in Fatu Hiva, not knowing or having access to know that months earlier it had been attacked. Even if the outcome of the attack was not known yet, after 27 OCT I dont think knowledge of the attack was meant to be secret. This obviously isn't about my mine, my poor poor mine, but it would have smoothed out some of the edges when a long silence with no indicators was met with news that the attack was over, city lost, and there was no opportunity to react.

"KPA bulletin dated 27 OCT, a large fleet and hundreds of WTC marines has set sail for Fatu Hiva, it looks like an all out attack, we will keep you posted"

Heck make factions write their own, @Bodi can handle it 

Not a bad suggestion! Although it is worth pointing out that such an attack does not impact your ability to build and license properties and collect revenue. What it does do (and this came up this turn) is affect the ability to recruit troops there if the attack is successful, as it was in this case. There's a lot to keep track of when we process the MRCA and write the KPA (and I've missed a minor item that will be included in the upcoming special edition), but I think you've got a good idea and I will endeavor to include such items in a timely manner in the future. Thanks!

[Bregir]

I think it is reasonable that raids are announced by the deadline. To be fair, OL leadership was informed about the attack, although that may not have trickled down to you.

[Bodi]

Bregir is right about the prior notification, but I was expecting to see another King's Port like event in Fatu Hiva, using the land combat rules instead of raiding. We just need to know that it's first time we are having a proper war since the game started, it may look quite confusing but we'll learn from our mistakes.

[Mesabi]

I very much agree that this was a bit of the system not working as intended. In a perfect world, the MCRA is run quickly, and something like this happens over a monthly turn rather than the time it took, but I know irl stuff can very get easily in the way of things, as it did here.

I did watch @CapOnBOBS builds for like the last 4 months thinking, "do I say anything? I feel like I can't say anything." And honestly I feel a little bad this came as such a surprise to Oleon. 

These are my takeaways from the experience. 

First, I very metagamed this raid. The fort stats of Fatu Hiva were publically available, and I sent a fleet based on overcoming those stats. According to Bregir, I could have lost, but 1. I'm still not sure how the combat mechanics exactly work, and my analysis had shown assured victory. 2. it still would have taken some bad dice roles. As the MCRA combat system is kind of a black box at the moment, I think this might be part of the issue, when comparing Fatu Hiva to Terraversa, since King's Port is far more heavily fortified than Fatu Hiva. If King's Port has a royal fort, they would essentially have more combat power than most settlements from just that royal fort. 

Second, I do think clearer rules would help the game feel more fair, as we could actually see what was going on when combat happens. It would create more metagaming, but I don't really see that as an issue, though I know some of leadership does. 

8 hours ago, Capt Wolf said:

There's a lot to keep track of when we process the MRCA and write the KPA (and I've missed a minor item that will be included in the upcoming special edition), but I think you've got a good idea and I will endeavor to include such items in a timely manner in the future. Thanks!

This is another slight issue. While the Fatu Hiva raid was generated in combat as a raid, raids are thematically, "get in, get out." Fatu Hiva was an invasion and an occupation of the island, which is a lot different. 

I think that going forwards, raids should stay the same, (sneaky pirates, and whatnot!) but any invasions or occupations should have additional rules, announcements, and make make some use of the land combat system. 

9 hours ago, CapOnBOBS said:

This obviously isn't about my mine, my poor poor mine, but it would have smoothed out some of the edges when a long silence with no indicators was met with news that the attack was over, city lost, and there was no opportunity to react.

 

8 hours ago, Capt Wolf said:

Although it is worth pointing out that such an attack does not impact your ability to build and license properties and collect revenue. What it does do (and this came up this turn) is affect the ability to recruit troops there if the attack is successful, as it was in this case. 

This is kind of the first time a player imperial settlement has been occupied by another player faction, so these rules haven't been written yet. 

From my interpretation, this is the following as to what happens:

• The Mayor of the Settlement is now determined by the invader. 
• New builds in the settlement can be restricted by the new mayor. i.e. forts and such really
• No new troops can be raised their by any faction. (as confirmed by wolf)
• Nothing happens to builds there, (other than forts) unless determined by the invader. You keep all the income you would normally get from your properties there, (actually changing this is basically impossible without using a relational database, which BoBS does not use!)

Overall, I want everyone to enjoy the game, and I'm sorry that this has felt like an imbalance of the rules. 

[Capt Wolf]

I'll address a few items above, in something of reverse order:

10 minutes ago, Mesabi said:

From my interpretation, this is the following as to what happens:

• The Mayor of the Settlement is now determined by the invader. 
• New builds in the settlement can be restricted by the new mayor. i.e. forts and such really

Not true. Technically the settlement is occupied, but not necessarily owned by the invader. There were draft rules from an earlier time that suggested full control didn't transfer until after the settlement was held for a number of turns. But the fact is that those rules were never finalized. So, in short, no assumptions can be made about what the rules are for an occupied settlement.

13 minutes ago, Mesabi said:

This is kind of the first time a player settlement has been occupied by another player faction, so these rules haven't been written yet. 

This!

13 minutes ago, Mesabi said:

While the Fatu Hiva raid was generated in combat as a raid, raids are thematically, "get in, get out." Fatu Hiva was an invasion and an occupation of the island, which is a lot different. 

Agreed, but OL's approach to the Terraversa invasion forced us to adapt the raid rules for land combat. Technically, the "raid" of Fatu Hiva is the first case of a successful raid. (we've awarded token loot based on how far the raid proceeded before being rebuffed.) In all previous raids (including the first turn of the "raid" of Kings Port), the defender has ultimately come out ahead, normally requiring the retreat of the attacker. Note that in recognition of the massive scale of the assault on TV, and in an effort to work with OL's A-MRCA work, it was extended into a multi-turn event. Otherwise, if governed strictly by the raid rules, OL would have lost, their troops eliminated, and all ships that weren't given an alternate destination would have been captured or destroyed. Obviously, this wasn't a result that really made sense for the game, so here we are, trying to come up with rules for something beyond raids of a "get in, get out" nature on the fly.

22 minutes ago, Mesabi said:

I do think clearer rules would help the game feel more fair, as we could actually see what was going on when combat happens. It would create more metagaming,

By having the combat process be a "back box," it forces the players to learn what works and what doesn't by observation and trial and error. No attack should ever be a sure thing, but you can get the odds to a point where the outcome can reasonably be predicted.

26 minutes ago, Mesabi said:

I very much agree that this was a bit of the system not working as intended. In a perfect world, the MCRA is run quickly, and something like this happens over a monthly turn rather than the time it took, but I know irl stuff can very get easily in the way of things, as it did here.

Yep. We've worked really hard to find a schedule we can hold for the MRCA. Every other month was working out until this invasion. We're getting a better handle on things and hope to pick the pace up again soon.

[Mesabi]

Thanks for the input Wolf!

12 minutes ago, Capt Wolf said:

Not true. Technically the settlement is occupied, but not necessarily owned by the invader. There were draft rules from an earlier time that suggested full control didn't transfer until after the settlement was held for a number of turns. But the fact is that those rules were never finalized. So, in short, no assumptions can be made about what the rules are for an occupied settlement.

Which is where I look forwards to what the court decides Occupation to mean. I'm not sure what it entails or means, and clearly my guesses were way off! 

14 minutes ago, Capt Wolf said:

Agreed, but OL's approach to the Terraversa invasion forced us to adapt the raid rules for land combat. Technically, the "raid" of Fatu Hiva is the first case of a successful raid. (we've awarded token loot based on how far the raid proceeded before being rebuffed.) In all previous raids (including the first turn of the "raid" of Kings Port), the defender has ultimately come out ahead, normally requiring the retreat of the attacker.

I find it hilarious that I have the first 'successful' raid. Adding that to my BoBS resume!

16 minutes ago, Capt Wolf said:

By having the combat process be a "back box," it forces the players to learn what works and what doesn't by observation and trial and error. No attack should ever be a sure thing, but you can get the odds to a point where the outcome can reasonably be predicted.

This is a point I disagree with.

By having combat be a black box in a system that does usually ~4 MCRAs a year, and is very limited in what we see, it feels far more like a dice roll than anything that we can learn from. 

I think the best way to have the system feel fair and balanced, is to have a publicly available set of rules, that all can understand and access. You don't even need to make things 'certain.' As a DM, it's always fun to have 'crit fail' mean DM's choice. 

That is my opinion, however, and I'm fine with how things are. But I think if we run into more odd circumstances where event A and event B seem the same but come out very differently, it will continue to irk folks on here. 

27 minutes ago, Capt Wolf said:

Yep. We've worked really hard to find a schedule we can hold for the MRCA. Every other month was working out until this invasion. We're getting a better handle on things and hope to pick the pace up again soon.

All in all, thanks for your, and everyone else on the court's work.

[NOD]

23 minutes ago, Mesabi said:

I find it hilarious that I have the first 'successful' raid. Adding that to my BoBS resume!
 

Could you add your BoBS résumé to keep it up to date?

 

Count Mesabi and Company:

 

Edited February 9, 2021 by NOD

[Bodi]

1 hour ago, Mesabi said:

I think the best way to have the system feel fair and balanced, is to have a publicly available set of rules, that all can understand and access

Though I'm in favour of an open system that is accessible to all, I reckon that the reason why the court prefer to keep it in a "black box" is there are some factors such as the quality of builds, that aren't as simple to determine as the stats. For example, "quality" is very objective, the point of view may vary greatly between the builder and the viewers. So, once we can find a way to make these kinds of factors measurable, we'll be able to work out an open system.

[Bregir]

2 hours ago, Mesabi said:

black box

There is no black box - all numbers are known - for a raid, the battle is in three phases: Guns (long range), Hull (close range), and Crew (fighting in the streets), and each includes a dice roll for each side that determines outcome. While I will not give out the multipliers for different dice rolls, I can say that they are the same for both sides. If the numbers put in are the same, each has the same chance of winning. The advantage for the defender comes in that it only needs to win one of the phases to repel the attack. (If the long range combat is lost, the attacker cannot approach the city and is repelled)

The raid on Kings Port (and other TV settlements) were determined by the same rules as the Fatu Hiva raid. Raid rules were not intended for invasions, but since they work ok, that is not too much of an issue, and we quickly adopted these for OL's TV raids. One thing to note about raid rules, as Capt Wolf mentions, is that ships should technically be able to make it back to another port afterwards (as they are meant to bring the raiders back home. If OL hadn't landed - we would have been in a pickle, not wanting to sink their entire fleet.

Kings Port is also the capital of an NPC nation, which is also something to factor in. That coupled with the inconclusive outcome of the numbers made us make it a multiturn event.

2 hours ago, Mesabi said:

I find it hilarious that I have the first 'successful' raid. Adding that to my BoBS resume!

There have been a few successful raids before, so I think Capt Wolf spoke too soon. They were only looting, though, and perhaps not quite as successful.

7 hours ago, Bodi said:

prior notification

I think we might want to include that a raid (if for invasion) has to be announced in the tMRCA topic within e.g. 5 days after the deadline.

In my mind, occupation means the following:

• Military occupation, meaning the occupier is in charge of the settlement
  • Can decide who can build there for the duration
  • Can decide which ships can dock there
  • Prevents the original owner from recruiting troops
  • Cannot himself recruit troops either, as Corlanders are unlikely to fight for Eslandola, for instance.
  • The town militia will probably not fight for the occupier in the case of a counter-invasion or land attack.
• Ownership can only be decided by negotiation (e.g. in a peace deal) and hence has nothing directly to do with which settlements are occupied. I can occupy settlement A and then negotiate for settlement B in the peace deal. Or something else altogether, decided by IC negotiations between the parties.
• Ownership of properties does not change - it is simply too complex, and will mess up peoples efforts. The occupier can always demand some war reparations for some amount.

 

[Mesabi]

1 hour ago, Bregir said:

There is no black box - all numbers are known

Thank you for the Clarification, up until this point, those rules were not publicly stated! I was under the impression that raid battles were the same as ship battles, and had five phases, and it went to whoever won three rounds. Up until now the most we've heard is the announcement, which doesn't clarify how raids were rolled for. 

Please don't take this as an insult or annoyance on my part, I know I have a some issues with tone. I don't have any issue with things as they are now, just more clarification is better clarification. I'm totally ok with whatever y'all go with for rules, and I thank you for the time y'all put in making them. 

1 hour ago, Bregir said:

There have been a few successful raids before, so I think Capt Wolf spoke too soon. They were only looting, though, and perhaps not quite as successful.t.

Well, first successful invasion of a player settlement? Not like it matters, i just thought it was funny it hadn't happened yet. 

1 hour ago, Bregir said:

I think we might want to include that a raid (if for invasion) has to be announced in the tMRCA topic within e.g. 5 days after the deadline.

In my mind, occupation means the following:

• Military occupation, meaning the occupier is in charge of the settlement
  • Can decide who can build there for the duration
  • Can decide which ships can dock there
  • Prevents the original owner from recruiting troops
  • Cannot himself recruit troops either, as Corlanders are unlikely to fight for Eslandola, for instance.
  • The town militia will probably not fight for the occupier in the case of a counter-invasion or land attack.
• Ownership can only be decided by negotiation (e.g. in a peace deal) and hence has nothing directly to do with which settlements are occupied. I can occupy settlement A and then negotiate for settlement B in the peace deal. Or something else altogether, decided by IC negotiations between the parties.
• Ownership of properties does not change - it is simply too complex, and will mess up peoples efforts. The occupier can always demand some war reparations for some amount.

These rules sound absolutely fine to me, and I hope the court makes them official. 

Edited February 9, 2021 by Mesabi

[Bregir]

54 minutes ago, Mesabi said:

same as ship battles, and had five phases, and it went to whoever won three rounds.

Where do you have this from? I am sometimes surprised how confident you are in how the game works, and how often your assumptions are not necessarily accurate

I don't know that the above is right - it might be, as I am not actually that deep in the combat calculations, but I have a feeling this might be outdated info. If we have wrong info out there, it has to be corrected.

57 minutes ago, Mesabi said:

Please don't take this as an insult or annoyance on my part,

Not at all. When I had to figure out how to roll a raid I looked at the stats and used those. First ships have to approach the port in a firefight with the forts (firepower), if they succeed in that, they go into a close fight with the forts (hull), and then land their troops if successful (crew). Note that that means that you have to consider both firepower, hull, and crew stats of forts, ships, troops, etc.

1 hour ago, Mesabi said:

These rules sound absolutely fine to me, and I hope the court makes them official.

Have faith in the court making stuff work. Sometimes we can be proactive, and sometimes we have to be reactive. But we represent all factions, are all focused on the well-being (and fairness) of the game (over our factions), and do our best with what spare time each of us have at any given point.

Our rules are not always perfect, but if they are unfair, it is either a) because we want to take the game in a certain direction, or b) because we made an error.

As players, enjoy the framework you have been given, and give constructive feedback when you have some, but please trust that we do our best, and that our decisions may have reasons you neither can understand nor should know. It is all the art of the possible.

[Mesabi]

18 minutes ago, Bregir said:

Where do you have this from? 

See below:

link

On 9/11/2017 at 10:43 AM, Capt Wolf said:

 

Spoiler

COMBAT

Combat essentially happens as before. For those of you interested in some of the mechanics, and what effect your ship stats will have, see below.

Interception

As in Era I, players are required to specify which factions their ship will attack as well as how much stronger of an opponent they are willing to engage. The gamemaster will review which zones vessels travel through and will establish which fleets will attempt to engage one another.

Weather Gauge

Once an interception occurs, a D6 is rolled and added to the maneuver rating of the least maneuverable ship in a squadron. It is then compared to the results for the opposing squadron. The victor determines the battle method and, if their victory is sufficient, gets a slight bonus to their combat rolls. In case of a tie, the weather gauge goes to the defender.

Battle Method

There are three battle methods, line of battle (based on hull rating), guns (based on gun rating), and boarding (based on crew rating). The winner of the weather gauge uses the battle method most advantageous to them.

Combat is comprised of three ranged engagements and up to two boarding actions. Boarding actions are based strictly on crew rating regardless of the original battle method. The first side to win three engagements is the victor. For each engagement, the applicable battle method rating (hull, gun, or crew) is summed for each ship in the squadron. A D10 is then added to the sum and compared against the result for the opposing squadron. The victor is the side with the higher value, and ties go to the defender.

Results

After the combat’s victor is determined, the fate of each individual ship is established. In most cases the victor’s ships are unharmed, although there is a small chance of damage requiring DBs to repair, or of a ship sinking even in victory. For the loser of the engagement, results include sinking, escape, damage, or capture.

 

This is what I looked at.

18 minutes ago, Bregir said:

I am sometimes surprised how confident you are in how the game works, and how often your assumptions are not necessarily accurate

Well, it was written down, and I was going off of what was written so....   

No hard feelings. Just good to know that they're outdated! 

18 minutes ago, Bregir said:

As players, enjoy the framework you have been given, and give constructive feedback when you have some, but please trust that we do our best, and that our decisions may have reasons you neither can understand nor should know. It is all the art of the possible.

Yup! At the same time, I hope requesting these clarifications can be seen as some constructive criticism as well.

18 minutes ago, Bregir said:

Have faith in the court making stuff work. Sometimes we can be proactive, and sometimes we have to be reactive. But we represent all factions, are all focused on the well-being (and fairness) of the game (over our factions), and do our best with what spare time each of us have at any given point.

I do, I'm mostly just here atm because an action I chose in game lead to some grumbling, and I want to make sure I don't cause anything bad OOC!

Edited February 9, 2021 by Mesabi

[Bodi]

4 hours ago, Bregir said:

I think we might want to include that a raid (if for invasion) has to be announced in the tMRCA topic within e.g. 5 days after the deadline.

I think you meant 5 days before the deadline, otherwise what's the point to announce it when the deadline is expired? The attacked party won't be able to anything then.

1 hour ago, Mesabi said:

I do, I'm mostly just here atm because an action I chose in game lead to some grumbling, and I want to make sure I don't cause anything bad OOC!

There's nothing to worry about your action, it's well prepared and executed. It's great to see the raid mechanism has performed so well, we should try to have more raids in the future.

[Bregir]

1 hour ago, Bodi said:

I think you meant 5 days before the deadline, otherwise what's the point to announce it when the deadline is expired? The attacked party won't be able to anything then.

That was not my thinking. A raid would be unexpected in its nature - ships coming over the horizon with the intent to attack, either to sack and pillage, or to occupy. Otherwise, we will make raids impossible, as more troops can always be recruited etc. in the attacked settlement, which is unfair to the attacker, and rather unrealistic. And to be fair, it did take considerable coordination and forces to attack Fatu Hiva, so it's exactly something you can just do everywhere

What I was trying to address was the fact that a faction may not want to license new properties in an occupied settlement. (Although I don't really see why you wouldn't as it doesn't make much difference for properties and their owners.)

But I think we will naturally discuss this in court as part of our current discussion there.

[CapOnBOBS]

3 hours ago, Bregir said:

That was not my thinking. A raid would be unexpected in its nature - ships coming over the horizon with the intent to attack, either to sack and pillage, or to occupy. Otherwise, we will make raids impossible

This whole discussion has been super useful for me. A couple observations:

The invasion of TV being a "challenge" to "seize" a city vs a "raid" to "temporarily occupy" a city makes sense, but the discussion above shows there was some clarification was needed in that. It looks like some gaps are being closed in what means what.

I applaud COR for their bold and audacious plan and waiting until the end of the turn to even declare war was well executed. I want to play in a world where surprise is possible. Well done COR (it pains me so very much to say it)

But, on 28 OCT, there was no longer any deliberately held secrets about the Fatu Hiva attack and... um... maybe the other troop landing that I'm still not sure happened or not? On 28 OCT, the surprise was sprung and we could not respond in a way that would have changed the outcome. 

All the frustration was magnified by the long delay in the KPA. I'm going to take this opportunity to say how awesome I think this world is and how appreciative I am of the court for running it! Thanks guys! This is about making the game better and more fun even when getting beat by @Mesabi

I think saying "after" the turn deadline, 'hey here a few lines on what we did' would have made both the waiting and swallowing the results easier. I think it would cut down on how much of the story needs to be carried in the KPA too... poor @Capt Wolf gets 1 shot to capture everything everybody is doing. We would have been surprised by the attack in OCT and learned the final result in the KPA. 1 more thing to consider, I know (now) the faction leaders knew all the details but as members of the court they have access to all kinds of info before it is fit for print. Pushing out more, officially, publicly, early on would let us all know what is ready to be known. @Mesabi didn't care on 28 OCT if all of OL knew about Fatu Hiva. "The die was cast" thanks team, this is fun! OL is still gunna "win"

[Bodi]

5 hours ago, CapOnBOBS said:

On 28 OCT, the surprise was sprung and we could not respond in a way that would have changed the outcome. 

I have to say that the reason why OL failed to take any counter-measure is at that moment, I got the impression that we would see another "back and forth" event like we were experiencing in Kingsport, where the belligerents have to submit multiple builds as per the combat rules, before reaching an outcome. But in fact, raiding mechanism was applied to Fatu Hiva, and the success of a raid depends on whether it can create an effect of surprise. So, the fall of Fatu Hiva is mostly on me. But don't worry, we'll get it back soon.

[Mesabi]

Taking this from the KPA thread, so it doesn't get in the way of discussion about the battle....

5 hours ago, CapOnBOBS said:

Can OL build in Nola Mar, Pilnton, Tarlor, or Sillitholina? Can OL raise troops in Pilnton, Tarlor, or Sillitholina? I understand from the other discussion that we are using a different mechanism than raids for OL to be able to "capture" this territory and at this point it has been held for nearly 4 months so construction wouldn't be unreasonable given the timeline. Those three settlements only account for 50 more troops per turn but that is significant when our little faction can only raise 330 a turn (270 with Fatu Hiva occupied) vs. COR's ~760 a turn. 

I kind of want to know some of the answers to these questions, partly for Fatu Hiva. Are occupiers / invaders allowed to build fortifications in Settlements? i.e. can I build Forts in Fatu Hiva?

I hope this doesn't take MUCH more time from the court, and I'm in no hurry to know. I've got a idea backlog a mile long....

[Bregir]

You an build in any settlement you hold. And if the occupier allows it, so can anyone else.

You cannot recruit troops in these settlements, as your enemy will not be inclined to join your army.

[Maxim I]

On 2/15/2021 at 7:49 AM, Bregir said:

You cannot recruit troops in these settlements, as your enemy will not be inclined to join your army.

Not entirely agreeing with this. I think with the right propaganda, you can find people who 1) doesn't care or 2) were unhappy with previous rule.

Won't be the full capacity, but over time, why not... So maybe until the first next round, it counts as hamlet, then village, and so on... With a temporary cap on settlement lvl -1 or lvl/2 as long as it is not officialy ceded?

[CapOnBOBS]

Pulling this out of the comments on the Tarlor Fort post into a better spot. I don't think I am the only one who wasn't tracking this and I don't think I'm the only one who is struggling to find their bearing. Sincerely, I really enjoy this little universe and am thankful for the contributions everybody does to keep it alive. If I can be part of the solution and not part of the problem, that is what I would like. Right now, I feel like the best way to be part of "the solution" is to bring "the problem" to light in the right forum. If I am the only one who wasn't tracking this change, then I apologize.

  2 hours ago, Bregir said:

FYI, the protection radius of forts is obsolete. A fort protects the city it is located in, as well as any outlying farms etc. We have no reliable way of determining distances, and it makes no sense that a fort can attack ships 30 miles away. Likewise, in your raids, you only opposed the local forts and their garrisons.

@Bregir, Yes, propaganda. Some of it is difficult to swallow and OL propaganda can reflect that while also accepting it as reality. Thanks for the nice comments about the fort... I was thinking about Fort William Henry (which was a real place, not just a scene in Last of the Mohicans). 

THAT SAID, "the protection radius of forts is obsolete." is a HUGE change to the universe that goes directly against the published description of how the universe works! I don't know if I'm the only one who is finding that out for the first time in your comment, but, man... that is frustrating... That redraws the whole map and changes the dynamic of the whole system. When I first read the radii in the land rules, I had to rationalize it a bit to myself (as I articulate above), forts are power projection platforms, not "just" fixed fortifications. I'm ok with that, but was surprised it was the rule. I'd be fine with it either way... just so long as we all understand which way it is... and your comment here is the first time I have seen something contrary to the published rules (that I have been keeping in mind as I've built forts and measured our/and your vulnerability based off of). 

@Capt Wolf highlighted the other day, this (the different and not well understood mechanisms for how the attack on King's Port was different from the attack on Fatu Hiva) is tricky because it is the first time that a faction on faction conflict has occurred and I get that. Your post here is another example of how the rules are unclear and causing frustration. How can I help us clear this all up? OL doesn't have to win for this to be fun, but it is real frustrating when the rules seem to be changing mid-fight. Gents, this is my favorite lego based online pirate universe, I hope my borderline obsessive posting shows you how much I appreciate the world you have built. How can I help you make it more clearly understood by all those who enjoy it.