Should LEGO Star Wars take a break?

[Lego David]

10 hours ago, MAB said:

Galaxy Squad was 2013, Alien Conquest was 2011, Space Police III was 2009-10, Mars Mission 2007-08.

Those themes were made before Disney owned Star Wars, and at the time LEGO and Disney didn't have that much of a connection as they have now.  And no new Star Wars media was released at the time, therefore being place for both Star Wars and in-house space. 

13 hours ago, Samppu said:

risk as the research surveys probably tell you that there is no existing market for the theme.

What are those surveys, more exactly? I never heard of LEGO doing such marketing surveys.

[Lego David]

10 hours ago, MAB said:

If LEGO tell Disney that they don't want to do Star Wars for 2-3 years and instead concentrate on their own Space themed sets, what message does that send to them? Disney and LEGO have a very close relationship at the moment. One partner telling the other they want a break to concentrate on doing some other themes without them will not end well. And asking for a break is like saying that they want to continue the license, but just not for now - we do like you, but just not enough to have faith in your theme right now. If LEGO end their interest in SW then I imagine Disney would turn to another brick company in the meantime, and the cost to get the license back again in future might well have increased, if Disney ever want to come back. Why partner with LEGO again in future if it wants breaks to concentrate on its own Space themes? Better to have a long term relationship with another company that is committed rather than one that wants breaks to produce something different. They'd partner with a more stable company that is wanting to continually produce SW sets instead. Plus if LEGO pulls out of SW, then Disney may well pull its other brands from LEGO and take them elsewhere too.

Just because they stop production of Star Wars for a little bit doesn't mean they will turn their backs on Disney. After all, even if such a break did happen, they would probably still release other Disney products that aren't Star Wars.

[MAB]

4 hours ago, Lego David said:

Just because they stop production of Star Wars for a little bit doesn't mean they will turn their backs on Disney. After all, even if such a break did happen, they would probably still release other Disney products that aren't Star Wars.

Look at how Disney markets it product, in stores and theme parks. SW is just as much a part of Disney as Mickey Mouse these days. Telling Disney that they don't want anything from one of the flagship brands of their portfolio for a while is commercial suicide. Another company would likely step in and take one of LEGO's continually best selling themes.

4 hours ago, Lego David said:

Those themes were made before Disney owned Star Wars, and at the time LEGO and Disney didn't have that much of a connection as they have now.  And no new Star Wars media was released at the time, therefore being place for both Star Wars and in-house space.

And there are (rumours of) new movies or other media coming just about every year in the future. But also look at the sets from 2019. There is hardly anything from the current / future Episodes 8, 9 or Solo. Ep 8 and Solo were mainly 2018 sets. The majority of sets this year are based on Episodes 4/5/6. Yet those legacy sets supposedly give room for in-house Space, yet LEGO chose not to do them. So if you are correct that 'old' media doesn't stop in-house Space, then it appears LEGO doesn't want to do in-house Space.

 

[Darnok]

16 minutes ago, MAB said:

The majority of sets this year are based on Episodes 4/5/6. Yet those legacy sets supposedly give room for in-house Space, yet LEGO chose not to do them. So if you are correct that 'old' media doesn't stop in-house Space, then it appears LEGO doesn't want to do in-house Space.

There is a current "space theme", via the City line. I do agree with all of your points in general, I just want to point out that with SW and the City space line there just is no room for yet another space theme - right now. That could very well change as early as 2020.

[MAB]

5 minutes ago, Darnok said:

There is a current "space theme", via the City line. I do agree with all of your points in general, I just want to point out that with SW and the City space line there just is no room for yet another space theme - right now. That could very well change as early as 2020.

Yes, although it seems that many Space fans do not class this as Space as it is not sci-fi space, just City. Which of course is the problem with the other Space themes in the past. Many AFOLs criticized both AC and GS at the time, as they were not what they wanted from Space (much like 2013 Castle and Castle fans).

 

[Samppu]

7 hours ago, Lego David said:

What are those surveys, more exactly? I never heard of LEGO doing such marketing surveys.

Lego does them as does every other big brand in the industry. It would be poor decision making to drive billion dollar business on the basis of gut feelings only. Not necessarily for every theme or new concept, but generally they do. E.g. before launching the Friends theme they surveyed 6000 families with girls either playing with the regular minifigures and the Lego bricks or Friends character prototypes of the time and the Lego bricks before concluding that the mini doll body was a crucial factor for the girls' interest in the play.

I don't know if they have done such a study regarding the pirate theme directly but they have done extensive research on the modernized vs. traditional play themes and the results can be seen on the Lego shelves: the kids, at least according to their studies, prefer to play with Ninjago rather than actual historical ninjas etc.


- Samppu

Edited September 24, 2019 by Samppu

[Digger of Bricks]

20 hours ago, MAB said:

On 9/22/2019 at 10:45 AM, Digger of Bricks said:

Unlike others, I myself don't want to necessarily see Classic Space & Company as it was to come back, just simply give us another in-house Space theme in the varied tradition of more recent forebearers such as Mars Mission, Space Police III, Alien Conquest, and Galaxy Squad. In other words, I just want to see another new, fresh, fantastical sci-fi Space theme that isn't Star Wars.

I'd also love to see some similar (but new) themes similar to those, although not only space. The problem is that LEGO seems to have done away with the one year style unlicensed themes (think Atlantis, AC, PQ, MF, GS, etc of around 2010-14). If they come back, we may well get some small space themes, along with other subjects. I imagine they don't sell so well though, as LEGO have stopped doing them.

And yet we continue to see further one-year themes for licensed properties... 

3 hours ago, MAB said:

Yes, although it seems that many Space fans do not class this as Space as it is not sci-fi space, just City. Which of course is the problem with the other Space themes in the past. Many AFOLs criticized both AC and GS at the time, as they were not what they wanted from Space (much like 2013 Castle and Castle fans).

For one, it could very well be the lack of "technicolored" canopies and windshields from Star Wars, City's Mars Expedition subtheme, Alien Conquest, and Galaxy Squad that make most Spacers shrug at their offerings. 

[MAB]

38 minutes ago, Digger of Bricks said:

And yet we continue to see further one-year themes for licensed properties... 

Yes, but I guess that makes sense as they are typically "advertised" by movies at the same time, and once the movie has gone from theatres then there is no reason to have a longer run of LEGO sets.

39 minutes ago, Digger of Bricks said:

For one, it could very well be the lack of "technicolored" canopies and windshields from Star Wars, City's Mars Expedition subtheme, Alien Conquest, and Galaxy Squad that make most Spacers shrug at their offerings. 

Yes, it is interesting that some people hold on to the design aspects / colour schemes of decades ago and won't budge. There are plenty of modern windscreens in trans blues and blacks, even some in neons and so on, yet these are not adequate replacements for the trans yellow. Although of course Batman has provided builders with some useful windscreens in trans yellow. But then isn't that part of the 'modern' problem. People want Space but it has to be the old Space, as it was, not some new Space. Get the colour of the windscreen wrong and they won't buy in to it. Isn't that partly why Space suffers.

[Lego David]

3 hours ago, Samppu said:

Lego does them as does every other big brand in the industry. It would be poor decision making to drive billion dollar business on the basis of gut feelings only. Not necessarily for every theme or new concept, but generally they do. E.g. before launching the Friends theme they surveyed 6000 families with girls either playing with the regular minifigures and the Lego bricks or Friends character prototypes of the time and the Lego bricks before concluding that the mini doll body was a crucial factor for the girls' interest in the play.

How do those families get chosen? Or how do you get to be part of the survey? I am curious.

[darththeling]

On 9/21/2019 at 6:47 AM, Lego David said:

Most of the new sets have little to no improvement over their predecessors. Heck, with some of them you can't even tell what's the difference.

They aren't for collectors like us who already have them... the re-releases are primarily for the young kids starting out as Star Wars fans or new fans that don't yet have an X-Wing, a Falcon, etc. Additionally, I get a lot of pleasure in scrapping old builds to replace new builds. For example, I love the look of the 20th anniversary Slave 1... so I'm already planning on building something else with the parts my old Slave 1 from 2007. It's a win-win.

As far as taking a break (from releasing Star Wars kits) is concerned... shareholders in the company would be baffled if Lego paid the extreme Lucas/Disney licensing and then sat on the IP and did nothing to profit from it for an extended time. It seems like a really bad business decision. But the criticism that Star Wars ST doesn't do enough to come up with fresh designs - there's certainly some validity in that observation, but the onus is on the people that make Star Wars rather than Lego to provide new designs.

For the ST, I felt the Resistance bomber, quadjumper, Rey' speeder, island of Atch-to were good, fresh shelf pieces that add variety to my display. The weakest probably the Battle of Crait and Han's freighter (Rathtar escape) but at least both were new designs.

[Gremer2]

I don't know how exactly getting rid of Star Wars for a while is going to help the issue. Yeah, there's a lot of rereleases, but taking a break for a year or two isn't going to change that. You're just delaying the rereleases, not getting rid of them.

As others have said, rereleases, while they can be annoying, are a good thing for new customers and children. I'm glad they keep rereleasing older sets, not everyone was a collector back in 2003 or even 2012. Barring the Snowspeeders, which do need an update, they are usually pretty drastic improvements over older sets as well. The 2018 X-Wing was far better than the 2012 one. And it's not like the only thing Lego makes are rereleases, there are always new designs each year.

[Samppu]

On 9/24/2019 at 5:55 PM, Lego David said:

How do those families get chosen? Or how do you get to be part of the survey? I am curious.

I suppose by randomly picking up families who are willing to take part in the surveys, which is the standard method for any research, but if they use some other principles, I don't really know. I would guess the families are compensated with Lego sets and bricks afterwards. Usually they do this in Denmark for obvious reasons, but I actually got a chance to take part in one such survey through the LUG network a few years ago. Generally there are websites that have hundreds of opportunities to take part in similar surveys that often offer the products or some discounts etc. for compensation. I have never really tried them, but generally I know that there are quite a lot of interesting stuff available there. The same applies to the scientific research as well, but in both cases you often need to dig out these opportunities by yourself usually.


- Samppu

Edited September 26, 2019 by Samppu

[Flieger]

On 9/23/2019 at 7:44 PM, MAB said:

Disney and LEGO have a very close relationship at the moment. One partner telling the other they want a break to concentrate on doing some other themes without them will not end well. And asking for a break is like saying that they want to continue the license, but just not for now - we do like you, but just not enough to have faith in your theme right now.

Considering the state of Star Wars toy sales, that would not be overly shocking.

https://www.jeditemplearchives.com/2019-09-13-is-history-just-repeating-itself/

I mean Hasbro has openly declared having zero interest in producing Resistance related toys anymore, and I am sure they told Disney before they told the public. Lego has all but done the same. A total break may be unrealistic as of now, but Star Wars is no longer Lego's top dog. And a lot of that has to do with the general decline of Star Wars, which is Disney's responsibility. I doubt Lego is happy with Disney.

Also, think about how many times Lego (and Hasbro) was screwed by Disney, like Lego designing an eleborate dual moulded helmet for a trooper that was seen for about one second in the movie (and Lego designers publicly stated they were glad Disney did not cut them completely). ...Or that Kylo Ren shuttle fiasco. ...Or that Heavy Scout Walker, which was a total waste for everyone. And so on.

I would be very surprised if Lego did not send some strong words to Disney about the developments since TLJ. Again, a total break is not realistic - not yet. But it is not like Lego desperately depends on Star Wars anymore. Those days are gone.

 

On 9/23/2019 at 6:54 PM, MAB said:

They have already done that for Jabba's Palace and the Rancor Pit.

And it was rather well received despite not being a good application of the concept.

[Lego David]

3 hours ago, Flieger said:

Considering the state of Star Wars toy sales, that would not be overly shocking.

https://www.jeditemplearchives.com/2019-09-13-is-history-just-repeating-itself/

I mean Hasbro has openly declared having zero interest in producing Resistance related toys anymore, and I am sure they told Disney before they told the public. Lego has all but done the same. A total break may be unrealistic as of now, but Star Wars is no longer Lego's top dog. And a lot of that has to do with the general decline of Star Wars, which is Disney's responsibility. I doubt Lego is happy with Disney.

Also, think about how many times Lego (and Hasbro) was screwed by Disney, like Lego designing an eleborate dual moulded helmet for a trooper that was seen for about one second in the movie (and Lego designers publicly stated they were glad Disney did not cut them completely). ...Or that Kylo Ren shuttle fiasco. ...Or that Heavy Scout Walker, which was a total waste for everyone. And so on.

I would be very surprised if Lego did not send some strong words to Disney about the developments since TLJ. Again, a total break is not realistic - not yet. But it is not like Lego desperately depends on Star Wars anymore. Those days are gone.

Not to mention the fact that Star Wars sales haven't really grown a lot with LEGO either, especially with flops such as the Solo sets.

[Samppu]

12 hours ago, Flieger said:

Considering the state of Star Wars toy sales, that would not be overly shocking.

https://www.jeditemplearchives.com/2019-09-13-is-history-just-repeating-itself/

I mean Hasbro has openly declared having zero interest in producing Resistance related toys anymore, and I am sure they told Disney before they told the public.  Lego has all but done the same. A total break may be unrealistic as of now, but Star Wars is no longer Lego's top dog. And a lot of that has to do with the general decline of Star Wars, which is Disney's responsibility. I doubt Lego is happy with Disney.

Also, think about how many times Lego (and Hasbro) was screwed by Disney, like Lego designing an eleborate dual moulded helmet for a trooper that was seen for about one second in the movie (and Lego designers publicly stated they were glad Disney did not cut them completely). ...Or that Kylo Ren shuttle fiasco. ...Or that Heavy Scout Walker, which was a total waste for everyone. And so on.

I would be very surprised if Lego did not send some strong words to Disney about the developments since TLJ. Again, a total break is not realistic - not yet. But it is not like Lego desperately depends on Star Wars anymore. Those days are gone.

Thanks for the article, that was an interesting piece. I certainly hope Lego will look to find some creative ways to evolve Star Wars, as leaning on Disney does not seem to pay off. I mean that going by the book, that is, releasing a bunch of new sets with each coming movie has not worked well with TLJ nor Solo, and I doubt TROS would be any better as a movie. Instead focusing on creative ways to look the original trilogy and the prequel era might be a way to go. Something like discussed here. New kinds of sets based on epic locations, maybe some similar kinds of ideas that they are trying with the new concept in the Hidden side ghost series. Combining Lego BOOST and the droids, especially R2-D2 is certainly a good example of this, and I believe it will be a success as the BOOST already was.


- Samppu

[Flieger]

9 hours ago, Samppu said:

Thanks for the article, that was an interesting piece. I certainly hope Lego will look to find some creative ways to evolve Star Wars, as leaning on Disney does not seem to pay off.

You're welcome.

Ironically I would argue that the design branch at Disney is still very good, especially in the anthology movies. The Mimban/WWI-analogy e.g. was executed really well, even in details like the Sturmtruppen-style ammo pouches. The ST stuff is a lot less creative imo, but I don't think that is the main issue anyway.

Star Wars as a whole is just mismanaged, and Disney failed to attract new audiences, while alienating at least a part of the existing fanbase. Say what you want about TCW, the kids loved it. Rebels and Resistance did not even get close to this kind of success. Kids nowadays just don't care as much about Star Wars as they did before Disney took over. Ironic, isn't it?

And I agree with you: because Star Wars is no longer that juggernaut, and the competition is very strong, Lego Star Wars needs to be more creative.

 

[Lego David]

4 hours ago, Flieger said:

Lego Star Wars needs to be more creative

Well, I believe this would be a good moral to learn from this discussion 

[MAB]

On 9/26/2019 at 2:56 AM, Flieger said:

A total break may be unrealistic as of now, but Star Wars is no longer Lego's top dog.

They still call it a top-selling theme, and in fact it is the only licensed them that currently is. This line is from the first half 2019 report: Top selling themes in the first half of the year were a mix of homegrown favourites and partner IPs. In no particular order they were LEGO® City, LEGO Creator, LEGO Friends, LEGO NINJAGO, LEGO Technic and LEGO Star WarsTM. LEGO Marvel Avengers sets performed especially strongly and LEGO Movie 2 products also contributed to consumer sales growth.

 

[Digger of Bricks]

On 9/24/2019 at 8:36 AM, MAB said:

Yes, it is interesting that some people hold on to the design aspects / colour schemes of decades ago and won't budge. There are plenty of modern windscreens in trans blues and blacks, even some in neons and so on, yet these are not adequate replacements for the trans yellow. Although of course Batman has provided builders with some useful windscreens in trans yellow. But then isn't that part of the 'modern' problem. People want Space but it has to be the old Space, as it was, not some new Space. Get the colour of the windscreen wrong and they won't buy in to it. Isn't that partly why Space suffers.

Not all Spacers are that stubborn, as many I'm familiar with are quite open to sets from any playtheme that offer new windshield/canopy recolors that are any transparent color other than Trans-White, Trans-Black, and Trans-Light Blue (just anything we haven't seen plenty of enough elsewhere already). For instance, I even remember TLM2's Mayhem's Starship and Pop-Up Party Bus sets being well received for the Trans-Purple and Trans-Pink recolors they'd offered, and there had never previously been any in-house Space themes from Lego before that had made use of such! 

[MAB]

4 hours ago, Digger of Bricks said:

Not all Spacers are that stubborn, as many I'm familiar with are quite open to sets from any playtheme that offer new windshield/canopy recolors that are any transparent color other than Trans-White, Trans-Black, and Trans-Light Blue (just anything we haven't seen plenty of enough elsewhere already). For instance, I even remember TLM2's Mayhem's Starship and Pop-Up Party Bus sets being well received for the Trans-Purple and Trans-Pink recolors they'd offered, and there had never previously been any in-house Space themes from Lego before that had made use of such! 

Yes, the stubborn ones will probably never get much new!

[Gomek]

OK. Just a lot of points, all of which seem to be agreements of what others have said.

Star Wars should NOT be an excuse not to have an unlicensed Sci-fi/Space theme.

Most of the of the recent "Space" themes are more City than Sci-fi this doesn't cut it.

Star Wars fans are of all ages, so new kids will be entering the Lego Star Wars demographic every year. So they can't stop.

After Last Jedi, Disney needs the next trilogy film to not be a needless rehash. I'm not optimistic.

For me personally Lego is going to have a hard time finding new Star Wars stuff to sell me, but that's more on Disney at this point than on Lego.

 

[LegoDW]

Lot of good points brought up in this thread.  My answer to the question should TLG take a break on Star Wars.....a firm NO!

I look at it this way.  If they offer a set I already have and its better, I'll purchase it and improve my collection.  If its basically the same or a step back, I'll pass.  No harm for me and even if I thinking my old set is equal or superior there are a lot of new collectors and kids that will be thrilled to get this re-release.  Heck I wish we could order direct from TLG all the discontinued sets.  I don't need fancy boxes or even instructions....just dump the bricks in a bag and send my way.  Wouldn't that be nice.

Regarding there being a break in new Star Wars movies over the next few years.......IMO Disney has never seen a dollar they didn't like so more movies are coming sooner then you think. 

[Per_SW]

1 hour ago, LegoDW said:

Heck I wish we could order direct from TLG all the discontinued sets.  I don't need fancy boxes or even instructions....just dump the bricks in a bag and send my way.  Wouldn't that be nice.

That would be the dream of many of us, even with the option to part out sets from BL.

[SteamSewnEmpire]

In a word? No.

In more than a word? Just because people are burned out on Disney's Star Wars doesn't mean that Star Wars itself is dead. We'll always remember happier days... before the dark times. Before the (Mouse's) Empire. 

[Flieger]

On 9/27/2019 at 11:37 AM, MAB said:

They still call it a top-selling theme, and in fact it is the only licensed them that currently is. This line is from the first half 2019 report: Top selling themes in the first half of the year were a mix of homegrown favourites and partner IPs. In no particular order they were LEGO® City, LEGO Creator, LEGO Friends, LEGO NINJAGO, LEGO Technic and LEGO Star WarsTM. LEGO Marvel Avengers sets performed especially strongly and LEGO Movie 2 products also contributed to consumer sales growth.

Yes, as I already said: a total break is unlikely at the moment. What I am emphasising is the decline in Star Wars toy sales which certainly concerns Lego too. I would not be surprised in the least if Ninjago e.g. outperformed Star Wars, but without details (other than that SW contributed to growing TLG as whole marginally while losing money), it is all speculation. Perhaps Lego Star Wars is doing so much better than Hasbro...

...but then, just compare Lego's coverage of Star Wars media, compare TCW or TOR with Rebels or Resistance. If Lego was so damn sure that Star Wars is a such a hot deal, why would they ignore so many possible minifigs and sets, vehicles as well as locations? Resistance in particular screams for Lego sets and minifigs. All the aces and their racers, the pirates and their ships (a Lego combination that should be done: Star Wars and Pirates!), Pyre, Tierny...

I could go on with other subthemes but to make a long story, Lego is very conservative if not downright hesitant when it comes to Star Wars. That's why they are going through the motions, release the bare bones of (minimally redesigned) classics and not much else. Whatever Lego's policy may be, one thing it is not: exhibiting confidence in Disney's Star Wars.