[VIDEO REVIEW] 42110 - Land Rover Defender

[icm]

28 minutes ago, mpj said:

About the price... many of you say that 180 Euro is a good price. Compared to Porsche and Bugatti indeed it is, but... I think this was the price of the Arocs some years ago (including PF and pneumatics)... I think we are getting so used to this neverending price rise that we don't even notice it anymore. 

In the US the Arocs RRP was $230 for approx 2700 parts including PF and pneumatics, the Land Rover is $200 for approx 2500 parts without PF or pneumatics.  Seems fair to me.  The overall part count isn't that much less, so the PF and pneumatics accounted for the $30 extra in the Arocs compared to the Defender.

[nicjasno]

2 minutes ago, agrof said:

@nicjasno With LEGO you need to have some abstraction, both visually, both technically. This is what we enjoy so much, this is what makes it less serious. Also it is not intended to replicate 1:1 the big ones, but helps to understand structures, mechanisms. This can be translated as learning too. 

I disagree here. Especially given space constraints in lego models. And the added friction of all the gears makes it hard to motorise models with many gears.

Edited September 19, 2019 by nicjasno

[agrof]

Just now, nicjasno said:

I disagree here. Especially given space constraints in lego models. And the added friction of all the gears makes it hard to motorise models with many gears.

We are still talking about LEGO. I have no issues with this system and it's capabilities, some might have - this is absolutely OK. I am sure You agree: we will not fight over this. I know, we all have fun in the hobby in the end. 

[suffocation]

17 minutes ago, nicjasno said:

but lego gearboxes are not a good learning tool

Anything where you have to figure out how to solve something with limited options (parts, in this case) is a good learning tool, regardless of whether or not it's realistic. If you want to learn about real gearboxes then sign up for a degree in mechanical engineering.

[nicjasno]

I'm not asking for much here. 28, 24*, 20 and 16** tooth gears with dog teeth socket. All that is needed.

* can be made out of a differential
** this is the only gear we have with a dog teeth socket so far

[1gor]

First of all excellent review @Sariel

About this set I can say that shape is great, wheels are something that we needed long ago and gearbox is the first realistic after 8448 set IMHO. What I still do not like is color (perhaps I'll build it one day in white) and engine made with axles 

[suffocation]

7 minutes ago, nicjasno said:

I'm not asking for much here. 28, 24*, 20 and 16** tooth gears with dog teeth socket. All that is needed.

* can be made out of a differential
** this is the only gear we have with a dog teeth socket so far

20-tooth clutch gear came out last year. 28-tooth, I think @Zerobricks figured out a way to use the small turntable.

[nicjasno]

I am making a 28 tooth myself as soon as i get my hands on them. Then a small 4 speed gearbox can be made.

[Zerobricks]

Just now, suffocation said:

20-tooth clutch gear came out last year. 28-tooth, I think @Zerobricks figured out a way to use the small turntable.

You can make very efficient and strong diagonal geaboxes with 16 and 20 tooth clutch gears, all the way up to 8 different speeds.

[Paul Boratko]

I like to think that gearboxes in the 853 and 8860 helped mold a 5 year old child into the man that I am today...

[suffocation]

7 minutes ago, Paul Boratko said:

I like to think that gearboxes in the 853 and 8860 helped mold a 5 year old child into the man that I am today...

Spot on

[Anio]

13 minutes ago, Paul Boratko said:

I like to think that gearboxes in the 853 and 8860 helped mold a 5 year old child into the man that I am today...

Well, I hope that the car engineers of the future didn't get their passion from 42056 and 42110.

Otherwise, future generations are in serious troubles.

[mpj]

51 minutes ago, agrof said:

I am confused... why the complaint appear now for manual models and gearboxes? Was this an issue at the Porsche or at the Chiron? (I help - the answer is no.)

It looks like if something goes in the right direction, people get start to neat picking on other details, which is usually normal... but come on, really is it the existence of the gearbox now? 

I say, let's be happy about the fact, that this set is the best realized official Technic car to date. 

Sorry I think I was unclear. My statement is about all the cars. I find gearboxes useless in car models. Connecting the differential to a fake engine is enough for me.

30 minutes ago, suffocation said:

Uh... that's exactly what 853, 8860, 8865, 8880, 42056 (although they forgot to make the engine visible here) and 42083 do. That's exactly what ANY gearbox on a manual model is gonna do. Or did you expect extra gearbox functions like a gaggle of Carabinieri waddling after the car when you hit fifth gear?

Maybe you should've visited Brickset. 42043 came out four years ago at a list price of €200; considering inflation, the more-or-less 10% price difference and the respective part lists, I'd say 42110 is priced fairly.

What? I'm saying I find gearboxes useless in car models, not that I want to have more functions. 

About the price, I feel the 200 euro price correct for the Arocs, but 180 still high for the Defender. But I understand that nowadays it looks OK. 

[suffocation]

3 minutes ago, mpj said:

What? I'm saying I find gearboxes useless in car models, not that I want to have more functions.

I'm pretty sure 99.9% of users - read kids, teenagers and a handful of adults still in touch with their inner child - get quite a kick out of pushing the model around, seeing the pistons move at different speeds depending on the selected gear and figuring out how the transmission works.

[Anio]

Just now, suffocation said:

I'm pretty sure 99.9% of users - read kids, teenagers and a handful of adults still in touch with their inner child - get quite a kick out of pushing the model around, seeing the pistons move at different speeds depending on the selected gear and figuring out how the transmission works.

As far as I am concerned, they don't.

[suffocation]

Just now, Anio said:

As far as I am concerned, they don't.

Pronouns, pal.

[mpj]

I think you cannot notice the different engine speed when pushing a model by hand.

(Also you should leave the bonnet open)

I also think that 99.9% people buying this set will display it on a shelf and nothing more, because it is for sure a very very well looking set!

Edited September 19, 2019 by mpj

[suffocation]

Just now, mpj said:

I think you cannot notice the different engine speed when pushing a model by hand.

(Also you should leave the bonnet open)

Sure, if you have Parkinson's disease. But that doesn't fit the demo.

Leaving the bonnet open doesn't sound like too much of an effort.

Anyway, pretty sick of all the shit-shovelling.

[Rudivdk]

Shall we focus on the actual review here guys and take/keep the polite discussion to the general 42110 discussion topic? All this gearbox sentiment is not Sariels doing... (@Jim correct me if this is considered mini-modding...)

Anyway @Sariel thanks for the great review. Same as @JunkstyleGio I played the speedbuild part at 0.25x speed and it was a very pleasant watch. Looks like a very interesting build to me. And 1 PP (pug-power) for a 1:10scale plastic car is not bad at all .

[TeamThrifty]

58 minutes ago, mpj said:

I also think that 99.9% people buying this set will display it on a shelf and nothing more

God i hope not... its lego, not Airfix. Its meant for building, enjoying then taking apart for the next moc, or to modify it... 99.9%? No chance.

the build looks interesting, proper technic. Does it matter that you can't see the engine? not to me. The pleasure is in the build itself and knowing how the gearboxes work. But, i don't think of them as ornaments, so maybe my perspective is different.

 

2 hours ago, Paul Boratko said:

I like to think that gearboxes in the 853 and 8860 helped mold a 5 year old child into the man that I am today...

8860 for definite for me! I was 7 though.. (and had 851, not 853..)

[kbalage]

4 hours ago, Anio said:

But still, I have shitloads of friction on my model. The engin would never work. I just have big cracks, like 42056's crap.

Though, main components (engine, main gear box, high/low gear box) work totally fine if I disconnect them (especially at the U-joint, where it is easy to disconnect things without having to torn the model apart). Which makes me thing that the problem comes from all the friction be added / put together.

@Sariel @kbalage Any idea ?

When I push the model around it has no issues. I can make it crack once or twice only if I push it really fast in the highest gear. The engine does not run smoothly but it barely cracks.

Do you have this issue in all gears? In the lowest gears (where the fake engine barely runs) you should have almost zero resistance. In the highest gear the model requires more force to push but it still should not crack. 

An idea - do you have the U-joints properly aligned on the same axle? Both should have the same direction. Just tested and if I turn them 90 degrees then the model starts the cracking in the highest gear.

2 hours ago, mpj said:

I think you cannot notice the different engine speed when pushing a model by hand.

Actually the speed difference is very visible, I think this is why there is a significant gear reduction in the system. If it weren't geared down then the fake engine would run at a more "realistic" speed but the difference between the gears would be barely noticeable, as it would be fast, faster, very fast...

[Sariel]

I was unable to get the engine to run smoothly beyond the 4th gear and driving a wheel with a PF XL motor generated plenty of cracking sounds from inside the transmission.

[Bartybum]

4 hours ago, nicjasno said:

It's gotten out of hand and legos refusal to make more gears with dog teeth sockets is puzzling me.

I suspect it’s because Lego likely doesn’t see it worth the cost for new molds for something the consumer base at large isn’t really going to care about.

4 hours ago, nicjasno said:

I'm not asking for much here. 28, 24*, 20 and 16** tooth gears with dog teeth socket. All that is needed.

Sorry but yes you are asking for much. That’s four whole new molds.

[Anio]

50 minutes ago, kbalage said:

When I push the model around it has no issues. I can make it crack once or twice only if I push it really fast in the highest gear. The engine does not run smoothly but it barely cracks.

Do you have this issue in all gears? In the lowest gears (where the fake engine barely runs) you should have almost zero resistance. In the highest gear the model requires more force to push but it still should not crack. 

An idea - do you have the U-joints properly aligned on the same axle? Both should have the same direction. Just tested and if I turn them 90 degrees then the model starts the cracking in the highest gear.

Actually the speed difference is very visible, I think this is why there is a significant gear reduction in the system. If it weren't geared down then the fake engine would run at a more "realistic" speed but the difference between the gears would be barely noticeable, as it would be fast, faster, very fast...

Reverse works fine.
1 gear is more or less ok with right lever on High.
All other gears crack.

U-joint are properly aligned to have constant velocity.

[Meatman]

5 hours ago, Anio said:

Hi !

I didn't do the math exactly with gears but it seems ok. 1, 2, 3, 4 are in the right order. Low / High speed just modulates 1, 2, 3, 4, and so it keeps the right order.
As for reverse, ratio must be ok.

The various levers/controllers are nicely put together. It is a nice set up.

But still, I have shitloads of friction on my model. The engin would never work. I just have big cracks, like 42056's crap.

Though, main components (engine, main gear box, high/low gear box) work totally fine if I disconnect them (especially at the U-joint, where it is easy to disconnect things without having to torn the model apart). Which makes me thing that the problem comes from all the friction be added / put together.

@Sariel @kbalage Any idea ?

I wouldn't want to publish a review saying that the model doesn't work properly for undue reasons.

So the gearing ratios are correct in your build with 1st gear driving the fake engine the fastest? In the RB video, it is the exact opposite. 1st gear should spin the fake engine the fastest when pushing along and cause the most friction. I mean this is the way that it has been with every other MOC or Lego set that I've ever built.