onecase

Fraud MOC sellers.

Recommended Posts

https://de.aliexpress.com/item/4000045597585.html?spm=a2g0o.detail.1000014.3.28561fab0iI0n2&gps-id=pcDetailBottomMoreOtherSeller&scm=1007.13338.128357.000000000000000&scm_id=1007.13338.128357.000000000000000&scm-url=1007.13338.128357.000000000000000&pvid=1a248ede-64ca-42bb-aaac-20b1cab2f25a

There are so many fraud websites that are selling my mocs and I can't even track them down anymore.

These are probably lepin parts. There are many other moc creators who are suffering from these frauds.

Please report these fraud moc sellers here, I hope we can do something about it together.

Thank you.

 

onecase

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I thought Lepin got busted recently? or was that only one little factory? I guess all they did was cut one of the tails off the hydra. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What sucks even more, is Alibaba. You don't have to look around for long on alibaba and you'll find fakes en masse. Everybody knows, the management knows, but they do nothing against it. But what do you expect from a company led by Jack Ma, who thinks his employees should be thankful for getting exploited.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, interesting.

Thank you for sharing this fraud. Definitely gonna investigate in this one. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/9/2019 at 1:36 PM, onecase said:

There are many other moc creators who are suffering from these frauds.


That's a big word, considering that no one makes money from MOC instructions anyway.

And yes, I myself got one of mine "stolen", and you don't have to go as far as Ali, you can find this one on Amazon:
https://www.amazon.de/Modbrix-Bausteine-Imperialer-Eisplaneten-Konstruktionsspielzeug/dp/B07TM5DK14/ref=sr_1_5?keywords=modbrix&qid=1568135125&s=gateway&sr=8-5

While it's kinda insulting that they haven't even bothered building it properly for the box art, the reality is that it's not a "big loss" for me, because instructions only sell for pocket money anyway.

 

And yes, MODbrix stole other MOCs, as well as official Lego sets, and it was on Amazon in Europe, so you pretty much have no chance against Ali. Well apparently they stopped bootlegging official sets, so Lego did something here.

 

61cX+ls5W1L._SL1003_.jpg

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/9/2019 at 1:36 PM, onecase said:

https://de.aliexpress.com/item/4000045597585.html?spm=a2g0o.detail.1000014.3.28561fab0iI0n2&gps-id=pcDetailBottomMoreOtherSeller&scm=1007.13338.128357.000000000000000&scm_id=1007.13338.128357.000000000000000&scm-url=1007.13338.128357.000000000000000&pvid=1a248ede-64ca-42bb-aaac-20b1cab2f25a

There are so many fraud websites that are selling my mocs and I can't even track them down anymore.

These are probably lepin parts. There are many other moc creators who are suffering from these frauds.

Please report these fraud moc sellers here, I hope we can do something about it together.

Thank you.

 

onecase

I was  considering buying your instructions and ordering from there. I really don’t like the parts hunting part when building somebody else’s moc

What is your loss here? Seems I miss something. I even thought this might help you sell instructions...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is megablocking terrible. I really feel for you both and I can hardly believe the audacity to use your original photos. Such a shame that intellectual property doesn’t get the respect it deserves.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
43 minutes ago, DoomedACE said:

I was  considering buying your instructions and ordering from there. I really don’t like the parts hunting part when building somebody else’s moc

What is your loss here? Seems I miss something. I even thought this might help you sell instructions...

 

Obviously few people will buy instructions (assuming they even know it's a MOC) when they already come in the box.

But yeah, we SHOULD be embracing chinese knockoffs, because they would ideally help. No one buys instructions alone, gathering parts is not fun. And obviously it's not Lego that's gonna help (even if you're part of the happy few in Lego Ideas, they will adapt your MOC anyway), so that only leaves the chinese.

The best "Lego" set I bought were Xingbao ones, the "partly" licensed ones, and they're sets that Lego would not produce. I think it should go more in that direction. But yeah, there's no such concept as intellectual property for chinese people. And ironically, not for us MOCers either. That Star Destroyer, or my own micro AT-AT may be MOCs, they're in no way our intellectual properties, it's Disney stuff... So afterall, who are we to complain about it? MOC instructions don't sell, but the difference between 2 instructions and a few hundreds (which is still nothing, but still hundreds more than 2) can be attributed to the SW license. I can only speak for myself here, but maybe someone else wanna share numbers to confirm this.

These specific MOCs only have 2 choices: not being produced as sets at all, or being produced without licensing. They just can't exist as "proper sets", Lego will not produce them, knockoff brands can't get the SW license even if they were willing to pay.
 

 

 

Edited by anothergol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, anothergol said:

 

Obviously few people will buy instructions (assuming they even know it's a MOC) when they already come in the box.

But yeah, we SHOULD be embracing chinese knockoffs, because they would ideally help. No one buys instructions alone, gathering parts is not fun. And obviously it's not Lego that's gonna help (even if you're part of the happy few in Lego Ideas, they will adapt your MOC anyway), so that only leaves the chinese.

The best "Lego" set I bought were Xingbao ones, the "partly" licensed ones, and they're sets that Lego would not produce. I think it should go more in that direction. But yeah, there's no such concept as intellectual property for chinese people. And ironically, not for us MOCers either. That Star Destroyer, or my own micro AT-AT may be MOCs, they're in no way our intellectual properties, it's Disney stuff... So afterall, who are we to complain about it? MOC instructions don't sell, but the difference between 2 instructions and a few hundreds (which is still nothing, but still hundreds more than 2) can be attributed to the SW license. I can only speak for myself here, but maybe someone else wanna share numbers to confirm this.

These specific MOCs only have 2 choices: not being produced as sets at all, or being produced without licensing. They just can't exist as "proper sets", Lego will not produce them, knockoff brands can't get the SW license even if they were willing to pay.

 


Unfortunately, I have to agree on this partly.

It is a shame that the Chinese steal the MOC instructions, but the truth is that according to the law no one (apart from Disney and the other rightful licence owners) should be making money with creations relating to the Star Wars licence in the first place. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy and break it, too, and I happily buy custom minifigures representing Star Wars characters, weapons and stuff and I only encourage people to make and sell MOC instructions and keep the hobby world active. I also truly relate to this problem and I am happy to help if I can when I encounter such frauds. Nevertheless, I don't think it would be wise for you to consider a lawsuit or anything of a sort on this as long as you break one yourself when it comes to intellectual properties, as you might only get into a trouble yourself. The thing would be different, of course, if the models would not be under a licence in the first place.


- Samppu

Edited by Samppu

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2019/9/9 at PM10点10分, m4st3rt3ch said:

阿里巴巴更糟糕的是。你不必在阿里巴巴上长时间环顾四周,你会发现整个假货。大家都知道,管理层知道,但他们没有反对。但是你对Jack Ma领导的公司有什么期望,他认为他的员工应该感谢被剥削。

Your comments on Jack ma are too incisive.It's futile to appeal to Jack ma's company for any Lego copyright issues.There are still countless sellers selling lepin on various e-commerce platforms in China.The war between Lego players and Lepin players on Baidu Tieba, China's largest social media, has never stopped, ranging from the most vicious verbal attacks to the controversy over the use of toxic waste medical plastics for Lego fakemanufacturing.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, DoomedACE said:

I was  considering buying your instructions and ordering from there. I really don’t like the parts hunting part when building somebody else’s moc

What is your loss here? Seems I miss something. I even thought this might help you sell instructions...

If you buy the instructions separately, I suppose you're not stealing from the designer. But I doubt many people are so scrupulous. And since (as I understand it) these kits come with instructions, the purchase would still be supporting the thieves.

Also @anothergol and @Samppu, as someone who knows a bit about IP law, at least in the US, I have to respectfully disagree with some of those conclusions. While there may be practical difficulties with taking legal action, I don't think it's accurate to say that a designer has no recourse because they don't own Star Wars. I could go into more detail privately, but suffice it to say (1) Disney's rights aren't necessarily dispositive of a designer's rights as against thieves of his work, (2) regardless, the transformative nature of a work is an important factor in establishing fair use, and (3) profiting off a work doesn't necessarily preclude fair use.

Edited by Raskolnikov

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is Disney doing anything about this? If Lepin steals the designs of Star Wars builds, aren't they also infringing the rights of Disney?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Raskolnikov said:

Also @anothergol and @Samppu, as someone who knows a bit about IP law, at least in the US, I have to respectfully disagree with some of those conclusions. While there may be practical difficulties with taking legal action, I don't think it's accurate to say that a designer has no recourse because they don't own Star Wars. I could go into more detail privately, but suffice it to say (1) Disney's rights aren't necessarily dispositive of a designer's rights as against thieves of his work, (2) regardless, the transformative nature of a work is an important factor in establishing fair use, and (3) profiting off a work doesn't necessarily preclude fair use.

Oh that's not what I was saying. I was saying that first, we have no real recourse against chinese resellers, and our only real recourse against european resellers would be them to cooperate directly. But real legal actions have a cost that are waaay beyond the pockey money MOC instructions bring.

Second, I was only saying that yes, you do own the rights on your MOC, but if it's based on a license you can't legally do anything without that license anyway (perhaps unless it counts as a parody, in some cases). You can legally stop someone from selling your work, but if you can't legally sell it yourself, it's a bit pointless. And if you were already, by fair use, sharing instructions for free, then there's no monetary loss, it's only a moral problem, which IMHO it totally, and only is (no credit being given, poor quality & laziness).

 

Edited by anothergol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Raskolnikov said:

Also @anothergol and @Samppu, as someone who knows a bit about IP law, at least in the US, I have to respectfully disagree with some of those conclusions. While there may be practical difficulties with taking legal action, I don't think it's accurate to say that a designer has no recourse because they don't own Star Wars. I could go into more detail privately, but suffice it to say (1) Disney's rights aren't necessarily dispositive of a designer's rights as against thieves of his work, (2) regardless, the transformative nature of a work is an important factor in establishing fair use, and (3) profiting off a work doesn't necessarily preclude fair use.

Yep, my intention was not to say that this topic would not be relevant (we can all hate the Chinese copy brands and frauds), just to point out that it is thin ice here as @anothergol pointed out. If this situation was on me, I would not dare to do anything about it, because those points that you mention, especially related to fair use, are more or less dependent on the interpretation of the law. E.g. you might know Avanaut who made the book about amazing photographs of Star Wars characters. He ended up being sued by Disney and lost the case, of course. (Luckily for him, this brought him to TLG's attention and he landed a job there afterwards and nowadays his book is printed under the licence.) His case was not interpreted as fair use, so I doubt that these kinds of MOC instructions would. Don't get me wrong, I stand with you guys. All I want to say is that we probably should not bring this issue into publicity, because so far Disney does not know or care about these little businesses we do in relation to our dear hobby, but let's say this particular example would be made into a law court. Disney would possibly be forced to take some action about it, and the end result might not be pleasant if they decided to, e.g. deliberately try to forbid selling of all such MOC instructions and customs. I mean, this kind of a scenario is something you should at least consider before trying anything bigger on this. Especially as @anothergol pointed out, the price is not that big if you only make pocket money anyway.

One thing that comes to my mind is that is it possible to sell these instructions to only specific countries? On Bricklink at least you can exclude e.g. China out, if you want. It would not be fool proof but it would make it a lot harder for the frauds nevertheless.




Best, Samppu

Edited by Samppu

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, Samppu said:

Especially as @anothergol pointed out, the price is not that big if you only make pocket money anyway

Yes, I can only speak for myself but I would be surprised if selling instructions alone could be a legitimate business.
Perhaps for a few Youtubers who have a wide audience & can sell instructions, like they would sell T-shirts. Or perhaps as "art" books like the Arvo Brothers did.
Other than that, it's just a small hobby and it would be crazy to waste all the beer money paying half an hour of a lawyer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Theres a seller Vonafo Bricks selling Instructions on Facebook?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/11/2019 at 5:32 PM, Al Legoric said:

https://m.vonado.com/Executor-class-Star-Dreadnought-By-Onecase-p179208.html

 

What about this one?

I honestly already thought about ordering one. But now I'm of course doubting also this shop's respectability.

 

2 hours ago, cavegod said:

Theres a seller Vonafo Bricks selling Instructions on Facebook?

I suspect they steal MOC designs and try to sell their own kits, but I don't know what you can do about it, they have a whole website on it. Or they could just be trying to scam your money.

Someone wrote their experience here 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For what it's worth, there's at least one respectable seller, who only sells the bricks and has this notice on the listing:

  1. As it's a MOC set, difficulty 5 star, not suitable for new player. 
  2. the instructions pls ordered from designer for support MOC. Here is the link: https://rebrickable.com/mocs/MOC-15881/onecase/executor-class-star-dreadnought/#bi
  3. Without original box, but we guarantee our products have quality assurance and nice packaging.
  4. As all the parts we have checked before shipping, so if you find some parts missed or damaged, don't worry and just pls contact us and we can resend them to you immediately for free.

He's selling multiple MOCs (e.g. Empire over Jedah, Colonial Viper Mk2), supplied without instructions, with a link to the rebrickable page of the original designer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
50 minutes ago, zmarkella said:

For what it's worth, there's at least one respectable seller, who only sells the bricks and has this notice on the listing:

  1. As it's a MOC set, difficulty 5 star, not suitable for new player. 
  2. the instructions pls ordered from designer for support MOC. Here is the link: https://rebrickable.com/mocs/MOC-15881/onecase/executor-class-star-dreadnought/#bi
  3. Without original box, but we guarantee our products have quality assurance and nice packaging.
  4. As all the parts we have checked before shipping, so if you find some parts missed or damaged, don't worry and just pls contact us and we can resend them to you immediately for free.

He's selling multiple MOCs (e.g. Empire over Jedah, Colonial Viper Mk2), supplied without instructions, with a link to the rebrickable page of the original designer.

I am very much a fan of that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, zmarkella said:

For what it's worth, there's at least one respectable seller, who only sells the bricks and has this notice on the listing:

  1. As it's a MOC set, difficulty 5 star, not suitable for new player. 
  2. the instructions pls ordered from designer for support MOC. Here is the link: https://rebrickable.com/mocs/MOC-15881/onecase/executor-class-star-dreadnought/#bi
  3. Without original box, but we guarantee our products have quality assurance and nice packaging.
  4. As all the parts we have checked before shipping, so if you find some parts missed or damaged, don't worry and just pls contact us and we can resend them to you immediately for free.

He's selling multiple MOCs (e.g. Empire over Jedah, Colonial Viper Mk2), supplied without instructions, with a link to the rebrickable page of the original designer.

Sounds fair.

- Samppu

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have only ever attempted to sell one moc instructions so I can't really bring any large data, but I am pretty sure that as good of a model as it may be, it would get next to no attention if it weren't for the Star Wars theme. I am not anywhere close to counting the sales in hundreds so I really don't feel bad for using the IP to drive the success (if you can even call it that way) of my model, but it's really a good thing to keep that in mind. 

I am trying to imagine what my feelings would be, should I have found out about some Chinese knockoff selling my model as a kit... frankly I think I wouldn't care so much. In a way, it means that the model is good :D And mind you this is a pure hypothesis, but I don't think there is a big overlap between the customers that would buy the knockoff kit and lego people who would potentially buy the instructions from the designer. Maybe @onecase's numbers are on the whole another level and the perspective is different. but I don't think the existence of these products cuts down on the profit from instructions sales.

I still don't love them - they are sure infringing copyright laws on multiple levels, but it's not like they'd steal my hard-earned money... There are other mechanisms that do that much more efficiently and they are legal :D

Frankly, I am more easily upset by the lone individuals that would re-sell the instructions on Ebay (or even Rebrickable sometimes, happened just recently with an excellent UCS Rey's speeder, which I found to be for sale by totally not the original designer. Luckily the mods reacted quickly to my report).

I really like the practice mentioned in a few posts above, when someone is only selling the parts and redirecting for the instructions to the designer. That's sweet. I reckon they still use knockoff parts which is a bit less sweet, but ultimately it allows someone to build an excellent model that someone put some heart and elbow grease into, which I think is really nice. For me, frankly, the excitement and happiness of the people that report to me after they have built my model feel more important than the cash, which, for me, is mainly to mentally justify the extra time and effort that went into making the instructions.

Edited by Kristof

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Kristof said:

I reckon they still use knockoff parts which is a bit less sweet, but ultimately it allows someone to build an excellent model that someone put some heart and elbow grease into, which I think is really nice.

Yes, the parts are non-Lego. (I wouldn't say 'knockoff' as there're very few parts with IP protection on them.)

I have looked at building some of the large-scale MOCs and the time it takes sourcing parts it just prohibitive for most people. I have sunk about 20 hours into Cavegod's Sandcrawler and I am at about 20% part count. If someone would tell me that for £350 I can get the whole lot, then I would not hesitate for a second! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
 
 
 
12 hours ago, zmarkella said:

...I wouldn't say 'knockoff'...

Knockoff doesn't really stand for IP or patent infringement products :) It's simply a thing that imitates some established brand product, which I think without a doubt this really is.

Other than that I understand you. The only reason I would not enjoy building from non-lego parts, no matter what the price advantage was, would be the (nearly pathological) brand loyalty :D Even holding knockoff parts in hand feels weird, frankly. But sure enough, that concludes that I can just about dream about building big MOCs like these.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.