Open questions

[Itaria No Shintaku]

Hello,

I'm doing some research for my own personal entertainment and I would welcome and appreciate answers.

Premise: I do not own, nor buy, nor understand customisated minifigures.

My first question is to the ones who do not put custom molds on minifigures, just print on original parts: which is the difference in your opinion within printing 2d parts or 3d parts? Why, is it considered "more purist" to print whatsoever detail instead of making 3d parts for your minifigures?

My second question is to the ones who instead use non-LEGO molds. Which is the difference between printing a non-LEGO mold for a minifigure and printing a non-LEGO part that LEGO did never actually print, but it's quite essential (Eg: a plate with studs on both sides, a 2x2 corner plate with side rail, an axle with pin endings, and so on). 

I'll explain these two questions, of course. I'm very fascinated by things I cannot understand and I heard recently a lot of people saying "No, I would never use 3d molded parts for my minifigures" yet they print torsos heads and legs, or also I heard other saying "I would buy/print custom headgear or weapons that LEGO never made, but it's not the same thing as printing a brick".

Thanks

[Gorilla94]

I use custom printed minifigure parts and custom moulds. I started with collecting just original purist Lego when i came from my dar ages. Even if i liked some custom stuff i would not have bought or used it because it would have "felt wrong" to mix that. The lego logo was in fact something that represented most of my childhood. Most of my toys were Lego and the lego logo was there every Chrismas or birthday.

To be honest Lego changed that. There are too many important characters left out like Principal Skinner, the Witchking of Angmar, Gondor Soldiers and so on. The cheap reuses like Dwalins beard moul and Gloins Face for Dain make me angry. The customer unfriendly behavior like the higher price of 4€ for a CMF bag to press every cent out of it while the product quality decreases rapidly with misprints and moulding errors works that way as well. Wrong promisses and aggrivating lies are the cherry on that cake. When PR-managers talk about making lego plants from a special new plastic to save natural ressources while using a second bag of plastic in the cmf bags shows how much lego cares about nature and especially how stupid they think i am. It feels insulting. The promise of 3 years of Lego dimensions support made me buy it. After 2 it was cancelet. I will never buy anything from lego again because of such a promise.

I still love the Lego product but i don´t like the company very much anymore. So the magic of a purist Lego world is gone for me and i am fine with any form of customisation as long as it improves the result now. Lego made many Lego fans brick fans that way.

To your questions: I think it´s about nostalgic emotions based of childhood memories. To me there was a certain "magic" to purist Lego. Custom printed original parts had that "magic" still to a certain degree, too. Custom moulds don´t have that at all. How open peope are to customisations depends in my opinion how strong their emotional connection to the brand is.

Edited August 26, 2019 by Gorilla94

[AmperZand]

On 8/26/2019 at 10:58 AM, Itaria No Shintaku said:

My second question is to the ones who instead use non-LEGO molds. Which is the difference between printing a non-LEGO mold for a minifigure and printing a non-LEGO part that LEGO did never actually print, but it's quite essential (Eg: a plate with studs on both sides, a 2x2 corner plate with side rail, an axle with pin endings, and so on). 
 

Hello, @Itaria No Shintaku,

When it comes to LEGO, I’m a latitudinarian who uses third party pieces for both minifigures/minifigure accessories and in construction (though more the former). So I can’t say for sure why some people treat the two differently.

My guess is that they think of minifigures as not being what LEGO is really about and therefore OK to ‘taint’ by resorting to non-purism. But construction in their view is what LEGO is actually about and therefore it demands unadulterated parts. That’s just conjecture though - as I said, I’m no purist.

Edited August 27, 2019 by AmperZand
Typo

[Itaria No Shintaku]

11 hours ago, AmperZand said:

My guess is that they think of minifigures as not being what LEGO is really about and therefore iOK to ‘taint’ by resorting to non-purism. But construction in their view is what LEGO is actually about and therefore it demands unadulterated parts. That’s just conjecture though - as I said, I’m no purist.

I'm really inclined to second that.

[MAB]

On 8/26/2019 at 1:08 PM, Gorilla94 said:

 

To be honest Lego changed that. There are too many important characters left out like Principal Skinner, the Witchking of Angmar, Gondor Soldiers and so on.

For minifigures, I am of the same opinion. LEGO failed to produce some important ones, and where they failed I am perfectly happy to accept third party accessories if they look LEGO like. I bought enough Koruit figures to build a small Gondor army and a couple of Fountain guards, However, I only use the armour and headgear. I have no need for the figures or weapons as LEGO already makes them so I sold those off to someone else that doesn't mind non-lego figures. I also use brick forge and brick warriors parts where LEGO don't make the part or didn't make the part at the time I bought them or where the custom part is significantly better.

Same with minifigure prints, I don't mind original torsos being custom printed if the printing is decent and it looks LEGO like.

With parts, I don't use any non-LEGO parts. I think there are enough parts already to do what you need to do, even if it needs some creativity.

 

So I am sort of almost purist - I'll use LEGO where possible but don't mind using custom minifigure parts if they look like what LEGO would make, they just didn't.

[Wardancer]

"My first question is to the ones who do not put custom molds on minifigures, just print on original parts: which is the difference in your opinion within printing 2d parts or 3d parts? Why, is it considered "more purist" to print whatsoever detail instead of making 3d parts for your minifigures?"

This might be because 3d printing parts is much more likely to violate the lego aesthetics and therefore look unlegoish than 2d printing

Making a 3d part which fits a minfig in size is easy. However, making a 3d part which looks like an original lego part is not easy. The best example is the company brickwarriors (of which I enjoy buying things very much and do not want to bash here).

Take the Sarissa Spear as an example: https://www.brickwarriors.com/sarissa-spear/

1) It is much longer than any spear or lance LEGO has ever made.

2) It has these woven bands around it (many BW products have) which no LEGO product has ever had. The level of detail is too high.

3) It might be pointier than LEGO safety regulations allow. 

4) It has no connection potential due to the ornament at the bottom.

LEGO has a set of rules it is designed by. Certain angles, level of detail, size ratios, simplifying real shapes etc. Making a 3d part needs to stick to these rules or else it looks unlegoish. Many BW parts do, most shields for example. Othe companies have the same issues.

Printing something on a 2d element does not need to apply these rules. Lego 2d prints have less rules I believe. They are usually 2d and simplified cartoonish, but that it it. So just printing something is less likely to result in "failure", i.e. deviation from the original.

Ironically, Brickwarriors is an example for overdoing printing as well. Many of their figs look weird (sorry, but you know it is true), especially the eyes. I think they do it on purpose to create their own style. So you can make unlegoish printing, too, but in general 2d printing is less likely to result in deviating from lego aestetic rules. 

 

 

[Abaddon127]

Well said Wardancer.  That is one of the reasons that I rarely purchase third-party custom accessories.  I think if some of the companies like BW tried to make their stuff more aesthetically in line with official LEGO accessories, I'd be more likely to invest in them.  Brickarms makes high-quality products, but they lack the chunkiness of LEGO accessories, and look out of place in a LEGO minifig's hands. 

[MAB]

On 10/12/2019 at 6:35 AM, Abaddon127 said:

Well said Wardancer.  That is one of the reasons that I rarely purchase third-party custom accessories.  I think if some of the companies like BW tried to make their stuff more aesthetically in line with official LEGO accessories, I'd be more likely to invest in them.  Brickarms makes high-quality products, but they lack the chunkiness of LEGO accessories, and look out of place in a LEGO minifig's hands. 

If they look too LEGO like, then people won't buy them as they might as well buy the LEGO versions instead.

For example, I have some of their tridents, and these have the 'wrapping' details on them. Of course, they could have made it look more like LEGO ones and left that detail off:

But then what would the point of them be? Sometimes people want compatible parts that are a bit more detailed than LEGO make.

 

Same with their helmets, for the most part they are more detailed than LEGO ones, and come in many more forms. So they are ideal for anyone that wants a bit more detail in their minifigures outfits.

 

The Sarissa spear is meant to be long - 12-20 foot long, so 2-3 times the height of a minifigure. Same with the similar pike. These are not one handed weapons.

Here is the picture of them from wikipedia:

Of course, both these could be more lego like with a plain blade and longer shaft, so one of these but longer:

However, I like that the detail makes the Sarissa one look a little more primitive whereas the pike looks like the spear end is nailed or riveted on.

 

 

[Hammerstein NWC]

I'm about as non purist as they come.

I like to try and make both purist and non purist figs from the parts available. Sometimes Lego hasn't got round to doing things.  i think Lego does take note of the customising community - Look at how popular the early superhero figs were before the Batman lego first came out.

Another example is of how lego came round to printing tshirt arms. All of these things were massive in the customising community before Lego embraced what people wanted!

 

I say do whatever you like!

I love Brickwarriors stuff, however I do agree that sometimes the extra detail  detracts from the overall product as it gets lost in the one colour mold. the trident is a good example - it's not an upgrade on the lego one but if the binding came in brown on it I would buy it all day! I guess the thing with these custom parts is there are plenty of people who having used the custom part would make a fantastic job of then painting that detail!

I'm also a weirdo totally happy to make non purist lego figs but highly unlikely to use non lego bricks in a build unless for a specific competition!

[MAB]

On 10/18/2019 at 5:52 PM, Hammerstein NWC said:

I like to try and make both purist and non purist figs from the parts available. Sometimes Lego hasn't got round to doing things.  i think Lego does take note of the customising community - Look at how popular the early superhero figs were before the Batman lego first came out.

Another example is of how lego came round to printing tshirt arms. All of these things were massive in the customising community before Lego embraced what people wanted!

Yeah, there hav ebeen quite a few parts LEGO has done after custom companies have done them, especially in historical weaponry and helmets and so on., such as Spartan and Roman helmets, shields, etc. Where they are equally as good or better, I tend to stick with the purist  LEGO ones. Whereas sometimes the later LEGO parts are still not as good as the custom ones.

[Gomek]

On 8/27/2019 at 12:29 PM, MAB said:

For minifigures, I am of the same opinion. LEGO failed to produce some important ones, and where they failed I am perfectly happy to accept third party accessories if they look LEGO like.

same. If the look Lego like. It's a big if, but much appreciated when it's pulled off.

[Abaddon127]

On 10/14/2019 at 4:59 PM, MAB said:

If they look too LEGO like, then people won't buy them as they might as well buy the LEGO versions instead.

For example, I have some of their tridents, and these have the 'wrapping' details on them. Of course, they could have made it look more like LEGO ones and left that detail off:

 

But then what would the point of them be? Sometimes people want compatible parts that are a bit more detailed than LEGO make.

 

Same with their helmets, for the most part they are more detailed than LEGO ones, and come in many more forms. So they are ideal for anyone that wants a bit more detail in their minifigures outfits.

 

The Sarissa spear is meant to be long - 12-20 foot long, so 2-3 times the height of a minifigure. Same with the similar pike. These are not one handed weapons.

Here is the picture of them from wikipedia:

 

 

Of course, both these could be more lego like with a plain blade and longer shaft, so one of these but longer:

 

However, I like that the detail makes the Sarissa one look a little more primitive whereas the pike looks like the spear end is nailed or riveted on.

 

 

My problem with many of the official LEGO accessories for minifigs is that they could be great with just a minor tweak or two.  I'd like to see a custom accessory house use LEGO pieces as a starting point, then tweaking them to fit their own ideas and visions for what the basic piece is supposed to be.  For example, I don't like the official LEGO musket or flintlock pistol pieces because of the blunderbuss muzzle.  Kinda hard to do a proper Revolutionary War MOC or put together a proper Solomon Kane minifig with those specific pieces.  If a custom house took the basic LEGO designs, removed the blunderbuss muzzles, then elongated the barrels, I'd order the resulting piece by the hundreds.   Also, I like the LEGO Chrome Greatsword well enough, but I'd love to see a redesign with a longer, pointed blade, and a longer hilt that can be grasped by two minifig hands.  That would be another great piece I'd love to be able to purchase.

Edited November 7, 2019 by LuxorV
Please do not quote images from the same page. Thank you.

[MAB]

9 hours ago, Abaddon127 said:

My problem with many of the official LEGO accessories for minifigs is that they could be great with just a minor tweak or two.  I'd like to see a custom accessory house use LEGO pieces as a starting point, then tweaking them to fit their own ideas and visions for what the basic piece is supposed to be.  For example, I don't like the official LEGO musket or flintlock pistol pieces because of the blunderbuss muzzle.  Kinda hard to do a proper Revolutionary War MOC or put together a proper Solomon Kane minifig with those specific pieces.  If a custom house took the basic LEGO designs, removed the blunderbuss muzzles, then elongated the barrels, I'd order the resulting piece by the hundreds.   Also, I like the LEGO Chrome Greatsword well enough, but I'd love to see a redesign with a longer, pointed blade, and a longer hilt that can be grasped by two minifig hands.  That would be another great piece I'd love to be able to purchase.

Some customisers do take genuine LEGO parts and cut them or adapt them to make their own. However, that is often hard / time consuming work, ideal for a one-off piece but not to sell them. People cannot take LEGO designs and then make their own molded versions, as this would be considered theft of the design. It's better to make their own designs, rather than copy parts of LEGO's.

To have a minifigure hold a great sword with two hands would be great, but you'd probably need to adapt the arms for this to be possible.

[Abaddon127]

12 hours ago, MAB said:

Some customisers do take genuine LEGO parts and cut them or adapt them to make their own. However, that is often hard / time consuming work, ideal for a one-off piece but not to sell them. People cannot take LEGO designs and then make their own molded versions, as this would be considered theft of the design. It's better to make their own designs, rather than copy parts of LEGO's.

To have a minifigure hold a great sword with two hands would be great, but you'd probably need to adapt the arms for this to be possible.

I've resorted to doing just that many times over the last decade plus.  As for the the whole grasping a sword with two hands, I just dislocate the off arm from it's socket.  Seems to work pretty well, but isn't strictly legal from a purist perspective.