Lego David

Unpopular Opinions about LEGO

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Personally, I hate the Everyone is Awesome set. LEGO has "stolen" the idea of monochrome minifigures and mass produced them into an official set. Some people have collected monochrome  figures for years, to be able to buy a ready made pack off the shelf feels like cheating and devalues what monochrome figures are. Yes, there is still the hunt for harder to complete ones but LEGO making these a set just feels off to me, taking a fan idea and making it official.

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11 hours ago, Peppermint_M said:

I mean I think Star Wars is crap and wish TLG would ditch it for something actually good. But we have a number of Star Wars staff who love it.

Comparing a Lego theme with a group of people that just want to exist. Well done.

I am one of the people @williejm was talking about. Ever since the nasty things that were said about other people, I am a lot less active here.

It is not really moderating if you just let the onslaught against minority groups happen, and then just lock it once it gets uncomfortable for you.

Why didn't any moderator step in and say "Lego says LGBT+-rights, so stop with attacking them and the people for which this message was given"? Even then you would not have really chosen a side, but at least the vulgar things that were spewed about LGBT+-people would not have happened.

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26 minutes ago, Lira_Bricks said:

Comparing a Lego theme with a group of people that just want to exist. Well done.

I am one of the people @williejm was talking about. Ever since the nasty things that were said about other people, I am a lot less active here.

It is not really moderating if you just let the onslaught against minority groups happen, and then just lock it once it gets uncomfortable for you.

Why didn't any moderator step in and say "Lego says LGBT+-rights, so stop with attacking them and the people for which this message was given"? Even then you would not have really chosen a side, but at least the vulgar things that were spewed about LGBT+-people would not have happened.

Using a website dedicated to toys to talk about social issues. Well done

"Lego" (TLG) also says that modern military sets/figs are a no-go, why don't the moderators step in and remove those MOCs?

TLG does not own this site, it's up to the actual owners to decide what can be posted here

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, 1974 said:

Using a website dedicated to toys to talk about social issues. Well done

People went to a topic about LGBT+ to complain about LGBT+ and bully LGBT+-people. They decided to use this forum dedicated to toys to spew homophobia and transphobia. And yes, people tend to protect and defend themselves.

 

Pato Sentado decided to start again in this very topic here: https://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?/forums/topic/173015-unpopular-opinions-about-lego/&do=findComment&comment=3431008. Where are the mods saying anything about that? Nowhere to be seen. But then people start defending themselves and Oooooh! there is a moderator! That is our problem. At least be consistent. Or well, they are consistent.... But not in a good way >.>

Why did you not complain when Pato Sentado made that comment? Oh, we both know the answer already anyway.

 

Edited by Lira_Bricks

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I've not read that thread and it sounds like you've shouldn't either

I'm sorry that some a-holes attacked you, they need to be booted right off this website (and the planet in general)

I did not complain, 'cause I'm not reading that sh1tshow and I also don't care about such issues on this website

There are other places to debate that

Cheers,

Ole

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1 minute ago, 1974 said:

I've not read that thread and it sounds like you've shouldn't either

I'm sorry that some a-holes attacked you, they need to be booted right off this website (and the planet in general)

I did not complain, 'cause I'm not reading that sh1tshow and I also don't care about such issues on this website

There are other places to debate that

Cheers,

Ole

I mean, pretty reasonable to assume plenty LGBTQ+ folk and allies would read a thread about a set celebrating Pride, or acknowledging their existence.


Not everyone has the choice to ignore this stuff or suggest it should be somewhere else. Suggesting people go elsewhere or be quiet about it *is a homophobic tactic*, whether that’s deliberate or not. I appreciate it comes across as ‘reasonable’ or ‘fair’ to some, but it’s really not. It is used a lot on here specifically, and in social media generally, because people get away with it. Similarly, inflaming and polarising the discussion so it is shut down is another tactic to silence sectors of people.

 

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You just called me homophobic. How's that tolerance going for ya, mate?

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Calling a behavior homophobic behavior is NOT the same as calling a person a homophobe.

Saying "Suggesting people go elsewhere or be quiet about it *is a homophobic tactic*", as williejm does, is NOT the same as saying "whoever suggests people go elsewhere or be quiet about it *is a homophobe*", as 1974 seems to suggest.

Also, to support full tolerance, you have to be intolerant to intolerance (NOT intolerant to the intolerant, only to intolerant behavior)

Please make the distinction between discussing actions/statements and discussing people. Criticizing/dismissing actions/statements is OK, criticizing/dismissing people is not.

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I disagree 100%

Anyway, here's my unpopular opinion :

I'm here for the bricks, not the social agenda

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Another funny thing about Everyone is Awesome is that it is an 18+ set. Everyone is awesome ... but only if you are aged 18 or over.

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Fine oh wise one. What do I do? Being staff is a thankless task where any action or inaction is wrong to someone. 

So go ahead. Let's have a list of people to ban. 

No one is using the report functions to show any actual abuse. There is a lot of people getting cross that some others  find LBTQ+ an uncomfortable topic.

Then again, you forget that asexual and demisexual people find they are ignored and maligned for finding sex an uncomfortable topic. 

So, fire away. I am done trying to be nice and understanding. 

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Can we just get back on topic and talk about unpopular opinions about Lego. Personally I've had it with people just turning everything they get their hands on into some sort of politically loaded topic. Just give it a rest already and 'stop ruining the mood'. I find that I'm more and more ignoring otherwise interesting topics because they've been 'polluted' with completely unrelated issues. And that's not why I'm reading these forums in the 1st place!

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On 7/24/2021 at 9:24 AM, Peppermint_M said:

Fine oh wise one. What do I do? Being staff is a thankless task where any action or inaction is wrong to someone. 

So go ahead. Let's have a list of people to ban. 

No one is using the report functions to show any actual abuse. There is a lot of people getting cross that some others  find LBTQ+ an uncomfortable topic.

Then again, you forget that asexual and demisexual people find they are ignored and maligned for finding sex an uncomfortable topic. 

So, fire away. I am done trying to be nice and understanding. 

I agree! Can we go back to talking about unpopular opinions about LEGO? You know, what people initially came to this page to read and talk about.

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On the risk of continuing about a topic people want to stop, but

On 7/24/2021 at 3:24 PM, Peppermint_M said:

Being staff is a thankless task where any action or inaction is wrong to someone. 

Anything anyone ever does anywhere is wrong to someone. Fortunately, the vast majority of things people do are right to most. In my experience, staff here does a great job at keeping Eurobricks a generally nice place. What goes well is often forgotten, because - by the nature of the work - whenever staff do well, it tends to be invisible...

It's only normal that a worldwide forum with as many viewpoints as there are members, a heavy discussion sometimes pops up. Please don't forget that all the good work goes by silently, but it's still appreciated, and I'm sure many members are actually very thankful! (they don't always realize it however). It just seems to be a natural thing to focus on what's wrong, and I don't think that can be changed...

 

I'm afraid I don't really have an unpopular opinion to help bring the topic back on track. Maybe this one: I actually really like that in official sets, internal parts have all kinds of odd colors. It makes a build less boring, is helpful to non-FOLs and helps increase the part availablity for rare colors :)

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I think the Star Wars theme has grown stagnant and redundant beyond saving, also the recent trend to reduce the cost of sets has resulted in fewer parts being used in the builds, effectively turning them into glorified 4+ sets, yet increasing Disney's cut. It has all been done before, to the point of ridiculousness. End the madness TLG, move on, anyone interested in LEGO Star Wars has an infinite supply of sets on the secondary market, from hoarders only interested in turning a profit.

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Posted (edited)
On 7/24/2021 at 9:24 AM, Peppermint_M said:

Then again, you forget that asexual and demisexual people find they are ignored and maligned for finding sex an uncomfortable topic.

I understand this point, but I'm not sure if it's the best comparison. It's entirely possible to discuss/acknowledge LGBTQ+ identities without the topic of sex ever coming up… particularly since that umbrella encompasses stuff like gender identity and romantic attraction that are largely independent of a person's sexual orientation or behavior.

For instance, there are plenty of trans and nonbinary folks who are asexual or demisexual, and also plenty of asexual and demisexual folks who identify as gay, lesbian, bi, etc. on the basis of romantic (rather than sexual) attraction.

I definitely understand your point about staff positions being a thankless task a lot of the time, though. I greatly respect and appreciate a lot of the work that I know you personally have been doing to keep flagrantly homophobic and transphobic comments in check. And I don't envy that responsibility one bit. It's stressful enough reading hateful or intolerant comments. I doubt I could handle the pressure of having to figure out the best way to deal with them that won't inflame matters further, and knowing that the worst offenders you crack down on will likely blame YOU for whatever repercussions they brought upon themselves.

I do share the frustration that @Lira_Bricks expressed about threads like the "Everyone is Awesome" topic and review getting locked in response to a persistent flood of hateful or antagonistic comments. Because unfortunately, this approach sends a message to homophobes and transphobes that they can effectively silence the LGBTQ+ related discussions that make them so uncomfortable just by posting intolerant "flamebait", and then treating the ensuing "flame wars" as an inevitable outcome of mentioning/discussing those topics in the first place.

But I also realize it's not an easy problem to solve. For comparison, Huw and his moderation team from Brickset have been made well aware of this issue in the past, and have worked to improve their moderation strategies so that LGBTQ+ voices aren't silenced. But even they had to close commenting on their news articles for the "Everyone is Awesome" announcement and review due to the Sisyphean burden of playing whack-a-mole with a never-ending onslaught of intolerant comments. I can't imagine things are much easier here on Eurobricks.

I guess what I'm saying is, thank you for the hard work you do, and please continue to do your best, even if you can't always achieve the outcomes that other members expect of you. Eurobricks has definitely become a much safer and more accepting place to discuss these sorts of topics than it was a decade or so ago, and I'm sure it will improve further as we all continue to move towards a better understanding of  diverse perspectives of LGBTQ+ users like myself (and the aspects of this site and the AFOL community more broadly that can be alienating to some of us).

It is probably not going to be an easy or immediate process, but I promise that even the little things we do to make the community more welcoming (whether as ordinary members like me or moderators like y'all) make a genuine difference. :classic:

On 7/24/2021 at 7:00 AM, MAB said:

Another funny thing about Everyone is Awesome is that it is an 18+ set. Everyone is awesome ... but only if you are aged 18 or over.

I feel like that's more of a marketing decision than anything else — static home/office display pieces with a monotonous building process are naturally expected to appeal more to adults than to kids (even the "Everyone is Awesome" set designer originally intended it as a decoration for his own workspace), and LEGO has found the 18+ branding very effective at grabbing the attention of those sorts of adult buyers.

You can sort of compare this to the way that a lot of the earliest LEGO Architecture skyscrapers like 21000 Sears Tower, 21001 John Hancock Center, and 21002 Empire State Building had a 10+ target age in spite of their low piece counts and utterly simplistic studs-up builds. It's less about the complexity of the build or appropriateness of the subject matter than about communicating that "this is not a playset".

I agree, though, that it ended up having some unfortunate connotations in the context of this set, and that it might be better for future Pride-related sets to opt for an 8+, 10+, or 12+ target age like a lot of the Chinese Festival sets, Brick Sketches, or LEGO Architecture skylines.

1 hour ago, Verodin said:

Can we just get back on topic and talk about unpopular opinions about Lego. Personally I've had it with people just turning everything they get their hands on into some sort of politically loaded topic. Just give it a rest already and 'stop ruining the mood'. I find that I'm more and more ignoring otherwise interesting topics because they've been 'polluted' with completely unrelated issues. And that's not why I'm reading these forums in the 1st place!

1 hour ago, Poodabricks said:

I agree! Can we go back to talking about unpopular opinions about LEGO? You know, what people initially came to this page to read and talk about.

I mean, I think it goes without saying that the opinions people bring up in a topic for "unpopular opinions about LEGO" are likely to be divisive. If they weren't, then this probably wouldn't be the right topic for them in the first place!

Moreover, avoiding topics because they're "politically loaded" can be a bit of a slippery slope. I've seen loads of people complain that sets or themes featuring female knights/warriors, firefighters, construction workers, or scientists are pandering to a "political agenda", but that doesn't mean that discussions of the roles we'd like to see female LEGO characters in should be off the table entirely.

It also goes without saying that military conflicts and policing tend to be extremely "politically loaded" topic, especially among people who have had extremely negative experiences related to those topics in real life. But that shouldn't prevent AFOLs from discussing that sort of stuff when it happens to overlap with the sorts of LEGO sets or MOCs that interest them.

Even the ongoing Covid-19 pandemic has been HEAVILY politicized in the media and in various segments of society. But it would be extremely frustrating not to be able to talk about it, given the ways that it's impacted stuff like our LEGO shopping habits, ability to plan in-person conventions/meetings with fellow LEGO fans, and even the availability of certain sets or themes.

As such, I think there has to be a certain amount of room for these sorts of discussions on an adult-targeted forum like this, even if they sometimes make us uncomfortable or lead to disagreements. And that's ESPECIALLY true of a topic like this that's meant as a place to discuss topics we've disagreed with other LEGO fans about in the past.
 

On that note: I still feel strongly that there's a lot more room for LGBTQ+ representation in LEGO than what we've seen, even if a lot of AFOLs tend to object to that sort of thing on various grounds any time I bring it up. Recently, the Disney Channel TV series "The Owl House" has provided some great examples of the sorts of kid-friendly LGBTQ+ representation that would be fairly easy to implement in "play themes" like City, Friends, Ninjago, etc.

For starters, the show features a 14-year-old bisexual main character (Luz Noceda) with a same-sex romantic interest. Another major recurring character, Willow Park, has two dads. And in the latest episode, the show introduced a nonbinary supporting character (Raine Whispers) who uses they/them pronouns and is played by a nonbinary voice actor.

None of these aspects of the characters are presented as any more "shocking" or "subversive" than the more normative portrayals of characters' identities, romantic interests, or their families in shows like the LEGO Ninjago or LEGO Friends animated series. So I don't think adding more of this sort of diversity would be any more "confusing" or "creatively stifling" than the more normative sorts of character traits that already tend to be the status quo in those themes.

And certainly, it might be off-putting to parents who have homophobic or transphobic prejudices of their own… but if a company as profit-driven (and with as much aversion to "stirring the pot") as Disney is willing to take that chance, I can't imagine why it'd be beyond the bounds of reason for LEGO to do the same.:shrug_confused:

Edited by Aanchir

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25 minutes ago, Johnny1360 said:

I think the Star Wars theme has grown stagnant and redundant beyond saving, also the recent trend to reduce the cost of sets has resulted in fewer parts being used in the builds, effectively turning them into glorified 4+ sets, yet increasing Disney's cut. It has all been done before, to the point of ridiculousness. End the madness TLG, move on, anyone interested in LEGO Star Wars has an infinite supply of sets on the secondary market, from hoarders only interested in turning a profit.

There are two problems with this line of thinking. First is that Star Wars is one of those themes which attracts a premium post-discontinuation - especially for iconic sets. Not always by any means, but a lot of the time you're paying over the odds for a second-hand Millennium Falcon for instance (to get a Millennium Falcon with the classic line-up, on Bricklink my cheapest bet right now would be £110 for a second-hand version - a similar price to the current retail version, and I bet next time a classic line-up appears in the Falcon of the day it'll be a similar price). What this does is make hard-to-find characters - the likes of Lando or Mace Windu - even harder to come by, and essentially rules most people out of having a decent Star Wars collection if they don't already have one.

On top of that, Star Wars isn't a 'dead' franchise. This year alone, we're getting a minifigure of Bo'Katan - a character whose prominence is because of her appearance in a TV show within the last twelve months. (I'm aware she's in the Clone Wars, and even in a Clone Wars set iirc, but my suspicion is that that particular set was made to include Bo'Katan because of her popularity in the Mandalorian). Future films are planned. Multiple TV series. There's new material for new sets. It's not like other licensed themes - Indiana Jones, Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings - that can easily outstay their welcome after a few years because they're based on a finite and finished source material.

 

As for an unpopular opinion to bring into the discussion, I don't think Lego should have phased out the 1990s colour palette. I'm not talking about grey and brown - I understand that their hand was forced in that regard. But a number of other colours - Sand Red, Dark Turquoise, Pink and Purple all disappeared from sets around the same time, and most haven't returned. Pink in particular is a disappointment to my mind, since it's a good muted alternative to Bright Pink and had already spread to the majority of the "basic" brick range.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Aanchir said:

I feel like that's more of a marketing decision than anything else — static home/office display pieces with a monotonous building process are naturally expected to appeal more to adults than to kids (even the "Everyone is Awesome" set designer originally intended it as a decoration for his own workspace), and LEGO has found the 18+ branding very effective at grabbing the attention of those sorts of adult buyers.

Sure, the age on the box is just marketing. It just seems funny to me that a set that is literally a message sends out a slightly different message itself, that sexuality or discussion of sexuality is for adults (18+) only.

 

1 hour ago, Erik Leppen said:

I'm afraid I don't really have an unpopular opinion to help bring the topic back on track. Maybe this one: I actually really like that in official sets, internal parts have all kinds of odd colors. It makes a build less boring, is helpful to non-FOLs and helps increase the part availablity for rare colors :)

Which ones? I can't think of a set where the internal parts were rare colour/part combinations.

1 hour ago, Johnny1360 said:

I think the Star Wars theme has grown stagnant and redundant beyond saving, also the recent trend to reduce the cost of sets has resulted in fewer parts being used in the builds, effectively turning them into glorified 4+ sets, yet increasing Disney's cut. It has all been done before, to the point of ridiculousness. End the madness TLG, move on, anyone interested in LEGO Star Wars has an infinite supply of sets on the secondary market, from hoarders only interested in turning a profit.

I'm completely the opposite. I'm glad they are making SW sets aimed at kids again, stopping the gradual increases in costs and parts counts in these sets. Keep the UCS sets (and 18+ sets in other ranges) for adults and make the kids sets more affordable. A kid swooshing an x-wing doesn't care if the parts count has been reduced compared to the last version if it means they can get one and are not priced out.

Edited by MAB

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18 minutes ago, MAB said:

Which ones? I can't think of a set where the internal parts were rare colour/part combinations.

Internal parts aren't usually new or exclusive recolors (it'd be a bit pointless to waste a budgeted color change on something that wouldn't be seen on the final build), but occasionally they use rare recolors or ones recently introduced for other sets/themes in the internals, just as a chance to make more use out of those and make them more widely available. Just as one example, I remember that when they reintroduced Bright Bluish Green/Dark Turquoise (which in the first year of its reintroduction was most prominently used for the final year of Elves sets), they also included some of the new Dark Turquoise parts internally in other sets even if they didn't use that color elsewhere in the build, such as in the wooden base/stand of the Ship in a Bottle Ideas set. I think there were similar instances of Vibrant Coral being used internally in other builds the year it was introduced, though I can't remember specific examples of that off the top of my head.

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Posted (edited)

First, thank you very much @Aanchir, for that post. I'd like to call it a carefully phrased write-up. It is a thoughtful piece, standing out in this entire thread.

2 hours ago, Aanchir said:

I greatly respect and appreciate a lot of the work that I know you personally have been doing to keep flagrantly homophobic and transphobic comments in check. And I don't envy that responsibility one bit. It's stressful enough reading hateful or intolerant comments. I doubt I could handle the pressure of having to figure out the best way to deal with them that won't inflame matters further, and knowing that the worst offenders you crack down on will likely blame YOU for whatever repercussions they brought upon themselves.

This. I have no clue, how the mods, and let me be "personal", @Peppermint_M (and all others!!!) are handling all these very diverse issues on this forum without >completely< freaking out. I once complained about a war-scene on EB - and got some (reasonable!) moderator flak for being rude. Well, I "hate" war to the bottom of my heart. And voiced it. Nevertheless, EB is about building whatever in bricks - and when folks like to do that, because they want to, so be it. Point is: I got a personal message from @Peppermint_M explaining it all - and not only "accepted" it, but had the feeling of >having< to bow, tip my hat - with a - much more - than slight nod.

This forum is outstanding when it comes to tolerance, free speech, and >required< moderation. I simply don't want to go anywhere else (and I don't) - because I feel a sense of "let us keep this thing together" here. Much more, than anywhere else.

On EB, we are discussing war, town, spaceships, trains, LGBTQ+, molds, how-to-run-a-company, pirate ships, cranes, trucks, programs, electronics, mini-figs, color of people, muscle cars, licensed stuff - including SW, help on whatever comes to mind, non-LEGO stuff (the pubs), even competitors, and this list has no end. 

And 99% of the storage capacity of the EB server/hosting hardware - in a decent way.

I love this community. Which is certainly maintained as such a place by the moderators. Here is to you: :pir-love:

Sincerely,
Thorsten

BTW, right now there is a - well - what do you want to call it ... discussion going on in the Technic forum. Phew:

 

 

Edited by Toastie

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Now that's an unpopular opinion, lol.

Joking of course, over the years I have come to greatly appreciate the moderation on this forum. It is one of the main reasons I have stuck around so long, thanks to all the mods.

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12 hours ago, Toastie said:

discussion going on in the Technic forum. Phew:

The mind boggles for me when it comes to Technic! 

So I got a bit ranty, which wasn't the best. But it looks I got my point across.

A friend also reminded me:

 

https://imgur.com/t/funny/SER0HK7

 

There are some posts and threads we snipe and shovel away quickly. Be assured bad things are dealt with.

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Cannot stand old out of production parts being altered beyond repair for customs.

Call me a purist. Idc... I prefer just to not comment on altered part builds. For my sanity. :/

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It is beyond me how TLG just can't deliver B&P orders within a reasonable timeframe. It is the only company I know that needs weeks to even send it when it is in stock.

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Unpopular opinions, eh?  This might belong in an HP thread, but it could work here as well, especially since I will be going against a lot of HP fans.

I think that HP Advent calendars have jumped the shark.  They made a great AC that set up the Great Hall Christmas scene very well.  Then, they came back and made a AC that set up the Yule Ball very well.  I think both knocked it out of the park, and I somehow knew that the bar was now raised very high.  I look at this year's AC and see a set that leaves me very little to get excited about.  How many more Harrys, Hermiones, Dracos, and Rons do we need?  The set is for the children you say?  Ok then, how many Harrys, Hermiones, Dracos, and Rons do they want/need?  OK, I get it with Harry--he is kind of the main guy and has to be in nearly every set.  They even have a good print of him, which of course enrages those with Diagon Alley who feel like their Harry minifig is no longer something special.  They have a few good printed pieces, but I cannot justify getting it for those.  Presumably two days are going to be devoted to wall building.  I think a grand total of two days even have anything to do with Christmas at all.  I think I have an unpopular opinion because the youtube channels are drooling over it for reasons I cannot comprehend.  

Guess I will get the Star Wars one for the overpriced Christmas Baby Yoda that was highly predictable.  --sigh-----

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