Unpopular Opinions about LEGO

[1974]

Agree, but it also depends on your age. Most of what's on that list do not fall into the nostalgia category for me either

[danth]

On 4/30/2021 at 11:31 PM, Lego David said:

I find it so odd that they stress themselves out releasing as many 18+ sets based off Nostalgic IP's as they can, when they could just as easily use their own Nostalgia properties!

I agree with this.

But there's another unpopular opinion in there you just dropped: Star Wars sets, Harry Potter sets, etc, are IN FACT NOSTALGIA-BASED SETS!

People here in Eurobricks have this weird idea that it's only the Classic Space or Classic Castle fans who are just "living in the past" or seeing things through "rose-tinted glasses" and "just can't moved on."

Excuse me? Lego has just release it's 14th X-Wing set. The X-Wing is a 44-year old design from a 44-year old movie. The SW fans buying X-Wings are doing it out of NOTHING. BUT. NOSTALGIA.

If ANYTHING, it's the non-licensed Space and Castle set fans that aren't nostalgia based. They give us the archetypal elements of Space Sci-Fi -- robots, space ships, star bases, rockets, walkers, rovers -- without the need for a dated movie universe. The aforementioned elements aren't "nostalgic" because they are no more affiliated with the old Flash Gordon or Buck Rogers serials of the 1930's as they are with countless 80's/90's anime (Macross, Gundam, Coyboy Bebop), or modern Sci-Fi remakes (recent Star Trek or Aliens movies).

The only thing "nostalgic" about wanting non-licensed Sci-Fi Lego sets is that we don't have them anymore. But nobody wants them simply "out of nostalgia" -- we want them because we want generic Space/Castle sets!

 

So yeah I find the "Classic X Fans are living in nostalgia" narrative to be demented, backwards, and full of projection.

[SD100]

At this point in time how is "They don't have the molds" still an argument? They rip out enough new pieces every year it would be awfully simple for them to just CNC a probably "better" duplicate mold. If they honestly don't have CAD models sitting around somewhere it couldn't be simpler to recreate either.

There's my opinion...

SD

[Johnny1360]

I won't even pretend to know what I am talking about but I do know those molds are very expensive to make and they can't just whip them out willy nilly, as easily as popping corn.

I would actually love to learn more about exactly how they are made.

Edited May 4, 2021 by Johnny1360

[MAB]

On 5/1/2021 at 7:31 AM, Lego David said:

I find it so odd that they stress themselves out releasing as many 18+ sets based off Nostalgic IP's as they can, when they could just as easily use their own Nostalgia properties!

I don't find this odd at all. Many of the 18+ nostalgia IPs have large followings and many of these people will not necessarily be into lego. Thus they are marketing to a large fan base and also able to bring in new customers.

Whereas for their own nostalgic IPs, there is a much smaller fanbase and many of the fans will already be lego buyers. So they are marketing to a smaller fan base and would probably be shifting sales from one theme to another.

If they think classic type themes would sell, I'd prefer them to do modern versions rather than nostalgic versions. Stick in some Easter eggs for nostalgia, but keep the designs modern.

8 hours ago, danth said:

But there's another unpopular opinion in there you just dropped: Star Wars sets, Harry Potter sets, etc, are IN FACT NOSTALGIA-BASED SETS!

People here in Eurobricks have this weird idea that it's only the Classic Space or Classic Castle fans who are just "living in the past" or seeing things through "rose-tinted glasses" and "just can't moved on."

Excuse me? Lego has just release it's 14th X-Wing set. The X-Wing is a 44-year old design from a 44-year old movie. The SW fans buying X-Wings are doing it out of NOTHING. BUT. NOSTALGIA.

Not really. If someone watches Star Wars once a month and keeps up with all the Star Wars material, it is not necessarily nostalgic for them. The original production date doesn't matter, it is still current for them. The same with kids, they are not buying out of nostalgia, as they weren't born in the 1970s. They are buying for what they enjoy now. They have no feel for what it was like going to the cinema in the late 70s, they are not doing it out of nostalgia. 

Star Wars marketing and merchandising has been very clever in keeping 40 year old movies current rather than nostalgic. 

[Lego David]

31 minutes ago, MAB said:

I don't find this odd at all. Many of the 18+ nostalgia IPs have large followings and many of these people will not necessarily be into lego. Thus they are marketing to a large fan base and also able to bring in new customers.

Whereas for their own nostalgic IPs, there is a much smaller fanbase and many of the fans will already be lego buyers. So they are marketing to a smaller fan base and would probably be shifting sales from one theme to another.

If they think classic type themes would sell, I'd prefer them to do modern versions rather than nostalgic versions. Stick in some Easter eggs for nostalgia, but keep the designs modern.

I am not really sure trying to lure in new fans through Nostalgic IPs is a good long-term strategy. Once those people got the set based off the IP they are a fan of, they would have no reason to come back to LEGO ever again unless they keep getting sets based off that respective IP. Meanwhile, nostalgic LEGO themes are aimed at an audience that already frequently buys LEGO, so doing that satisfies their need, and cements their status of LEGO fans.

[SD100]

4 hours ago, Johnny1360 said:

I won't even pretend to know what I am talking about but I do know those molds are very expensive to make and they can't just whip them out willy nilly, as easily as popping corn.

I would actually love to learn more about exactly how they are made.

But they do, and it's kind of their business model. They put out a new wedge piece every two years lately and then have to find a way to work it into as many sets as they can...

If Brick tracks can do what he does, and Bluebrixx can copy what they do, then LEGO ought to be able to blow all of them out of the water with the scale of their economy. They could reproduce anything, cheaper than anyone else could, they just don't.

I'm not even interested in exact duplicates of a lot of old sets, but in this era of tech you can't say it would be too expensive for them to do it.

SD

Edited May 4, 2021 by SD100
Necessary addition

[1974]

7 hours ago, SD100 said:

At this point in time how is "They don't have the molds" still an argument? They rip out enough new pieces every year it would be awfully simple for them to just CNC a probably "better" duplicate mold. If they honestly don't have CAD models sitting around somewhere it couldn't be simpler to recreate either.

There's my opinion...

SD

TLG can make anything they want, but they won't make the monorail parts again simply because they do not think it's profitable

[timemail]

3 hours ago, Lego David said:

I am not really sure trying to lure in new fans through Nostalgic IPs is a good long-term strategy. Once those people got the set based off the IP they are a fan of, they would have no reason to come back to LEGO ever again unless they keep getting sets based off that respective IP. Meanwhile, nostalgic LEGO themes are aimed at an audience that already frequently buys LEGO, so doing that satisfies their need, and cements their status of LEGO fans.

It worked for me and I do know of others in a similar situation (YMMV). I was an 80's kid and had a total of 2 Lego sets (and maybe some loose bricks) and it pretty much was not a part of my childhood at all.

I have spent thousands of dollars on Lego since seeing and then buying the Ecto-1 Ideas set. If it wasn't for that set I would not have spent any money on Lego for me or for my kids (who are now also fans of Lego). On that note it does seem to me that the sets which are getting adults into Lego are the "nostalgic" (licensed) ideas sets.

For me it was enjoying building which kept me here. Almost all of my sets are licensed although I am looking forward to the new Creator castle set and hoping (but not expecting) that there will be more of those to come. While one IP got me here I do like more than one IP so I can buy others that come up.

Edited May 4, 2021 by timemail

[MAB]

3 hours ago, Lego David said:

I am not really sure trying to lure in new fans through Nostalgic IPs is a good long-term strategy. Once those people got the set based off the IP they are a fan of, they would have no reason to come back to LEGO ever again unless they keep getting sets based off that respective IP. Meanwhile, nostalgic LEGO themes are aimed at an audience that already frequently buys LEGO, so doing that satisfies their need, and cements their status of LEGO fans.

They would if they built the LEGO set based on the IP they were initially interested in and realized that LEGO now makes loads of nostalgic IP based sets aimed at adults.

How many fans of LEGO IPs give up buying LEGO because they are no longer making Pirates, Castle, Space or things like Adventurers, Space Police, Agents, etc. Most I know continue to buy and build, even if it is not based on their favourite theme.

[Lego David]

4 hours ago, MAB said:

How many fans of LEGO IPs give up buying LEGO because they are no longer making Pirates, Castle, Space or things like Adventurers, Space Police, Agents, etc. Most I know continue to buy and build, even if it is not based on their favourite theme.

Well, believe it or not, I have seen quite a few people who are like that. They might still buy some occasional sets, but only if they have parts they could use in their favorite theme. Otherwise, they mostly don't buy anything else LEGO produces, unless it is related to their theme.

 

[danth]

10 hours ago, MAB said:

Not really. If someone watches Star Wars once a month and keeps up with all the Star Wars material, it is not necessarily nostalgic for them. The original production date doesn't matter, it is still current for them. The same with kids, they are not buying out of nostalgia, as they weren't born in the 1970s. They are buying for what they enjoy now. They have no feel for what it was like going to the cinema in the late 70s, they are not doing it out of nostalgia. 

Star Wars marketing and merchandising has been very clever in keeping 40 year old movies current rather than nostalgic. 

I don't really get this argument. Doesn't that mean nothing is nostalgia, so long as you're currently enjoying it? So if I listen to 80's music because it reminds me of the good old days, it's not nostalgia because I'm listening to it now?

Also, I'd argue that almost no kids care about the original Star Wars movies. Sure, their dads will force them to watch it, and they'll kinda like it because their dads like it. But trust me, they know it's old. They're not "into" Star Wars like they're into Roblox, Minecraft, etc.

6 hours ago, MAB said:

How many fans of LEGO IPs give up buying LEGO because they are no longer making Pirates, Castle, Space or things like Adventurers, Space Police, Agents, etc.

Me. I'm really irritated with Lego right now and I'm seriously considering switching to Megablocks or Cobi out of spite. They're just as good, and actually print pieces instead of cheaping out with stickers, and don't reuse very out-of-place prints (see the Pirate torsos in recent Castle sets) out of extreme avariciousness.

The only think keeping me from this, right now, is the recent Castle and Pirates sets.

[TeriXeri]

15 minutes ago, danth said:

Me. I'm really irritated with Lego right now and I'm seriously considering switching to Megablocks or Cobi out of spite. They're just as good, and actually print pieces instead of cheaping out with stickers, and don't reuse very out-of-place prints (see the Pirate torsos in recent Castle sets) out of extreme avariciousness.

The only think keeping me from this, right now, is the recent Castle and Pirates sets.

While I don't branch out to other brands, I am keeping my themes limited, this year I got some City stuff but it's not the main focus, last year Ninjago Season 13 was one of those Must-have themes though, other then that, I have been mostly sticking to Creator 3-in-1 after Nexo Knights ended, but yeah, the Pirates/Castle stuff right now are my favorites.

I have seen the printing from other brands, and it certainly looks nice.

 

Edited May 4, 2021 by TeriXeri

[danth]

21 minutes ago, TeriXeri said:

While I don't branch out to other brands, I am keeping my themes limited, this year I got some City stuff but it's not the main focus, last year Ninjago Season 13 was one of those Must-have themes though, other then that, I have been mostly sticking to Creator 3-in-1 after Nexo Knights ended.

Yeah, Creator has been my definite favorite theme lately. No stickers, alternate builds, interesting build techniques, and now, Classic themed Creator sets!

I just wish they'd go full tilt into sci-fi Space sets. The Hover Drone was great, but the Mining Mech should have been in better (i.e. NOT NASA) colors and had a minifig. But, I realize Lego must have a no-compete clause in their license with Disney so, yeah.

I'm almost positive the Cyber Drone and Mining Mech sets are tiptoeing around the legalese of that clause. Which is why the Cyber Drone has a robot and is shown flying above a city (not technically in space) and the Mech doesn't have a minifig (no human characters in a sci-fi Space setting).

Oh, another Unpopular Opinion.

I, Danth, wished the new CLASSIC. THEMED. CREATOR. SETS into existence by sheer force of will. Search my post history if you don't believe me.

You're welcome.

Edited May 4, 2021 by danth

[MAB]

I'm also limiting my purchases this year. Mainly as they are not being reduced anywhere near as much as in the past as other people keep buying them at full RRP. Although I tend to buy interesting new parts from bricks and pieces or bricklink and don't bother buying that many sets for myself anyway. 

3 hours ago, Lego David said:

Well, believe it or not, I have seen quite a few people who are like that. They might still buy some occasional sets, but only if they have parts they could use in their favorite theme. Otherwise, they mostly don't buy anything else LEGO produces, unless it is related to their theme.

 

Presumably if they were into classic themes then they were a customer lost to LEGO a long time ago. 

[TeriXeri]

1 hour ago, MAB said:

Presumably if they were into classic themes then they were a customer lost to LEGO a long time ago. 

That happened to me when LEGO struggled pretty big during the 2000-ish era.

Year 2000 Castle was too blocky.

Town was struggling with Town Jr / Jack Stone, World City didn't appear until 2004

The last Pirates sets were from 1997*, and those 2001 re-releases weren't really easy to get (LEGO Exclusive in a time when internet was still developing) and I don't remember much advertisement on them.

Space mostly consisted of UFO and Insectoid Leftovers , 2001 Mars mission was just something weird to me at the time.

Year 2000 Adventurers (Dino) weren't great either.

Before sites like Brickset and such, knowledge of sets mostly relied on paper catalogs or store shelves.

 

I had no interest in Star Wars or Bionicle, which were themes that actually came to rise in 1999 and 2001, I did have the Slizers though.

Other interests like the big rise of Video Games also played a role for me during the early 2000s.

So I honestly didn't even know at the time that World City, Orient Expedition, Knights Kingdom II existed.

 

Edited May 4, 2021 by TeriXeri

[Toastie]

10 minutes ago, TeriXeri said:

That happened to me when LEGO struggled pretty big during the 2000-ish era.

Year 2000 Castle was too blocky.

Town was struggling with Town Jr / Jack Stone, World City didn't appear until 2004

The last Pirates sets were from 1997*, and those 2001 re-releases weren't really easy to get (LEGO Exclusive in a time when internet was still developing) and I don't remember much advertisement on them.

Space mostly consisted of UFO and Insectoid Leftovers , 2001 Mars mission was just something weird to me at the time.

Year 2000 Adventurers (Dino) weren't great either.

Before sites like Brickset and such, knowledge of sets mostly relied on paper catalogs or store shelves.

That were terrible times ... but nevertheless: TLG was the big dominating brick enterprise, also back then. Competition of "Clones" was - well - laughable, compared to what is happening now, or better: Since a couple of years - and - with ever-increasing pressure - as gauged by this >absurd< legal crap TLG is pushing. Man. That stage is generally a sign of panic. In the big business. The moment a company reverts >visibly< to suing, "things" are declining. At least this holds true where I am working; let's call that in the research world. We do get substantial research money from companies though: They expect to see results. Certainly no lamenting, arguing or suing. >Results<. 

Something is weird: In the 2000nds - without all that rising pressure - TLG was basically beating the horse to death. And they came to grips because of realizing that. And changed all that in due time.

To be quite honest, I believe there are again many, many disconnects up in command. Things do change with ever-increasing speed. TLG "leaders" hopefully realize rather sooner than later that IDEAS, the way it "was" set up (in the past), worked well "a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away ..." but that approach may become totally obsolete - within no time.

Folks here on EB are excited that 50+ proposals were reaching the threshold. What does that tell you? Creativity is wonderful. What does that do with the philosophy of IDEAS? With all that Fuzz planned? It crushes the idea. Branch out to BL? What? To BL?

Well. In the big picture that is. Not with regard to IDEAS fans and folks. IDEAS is - well - negligible, as judged in the sales department. I believe, but what do I know.

However, IDEAS also represents a philosophy, I believe. That is - as per your post above - seeping through the entire "encapsulated" TLG world.

Again: What do I know. Just my two cents - and no offense!

All the best
Thorsten

[Stuartn]

5 hours ago, danth said:

Also, I'd argue that almost no kids care about the original Star Wars movies. Sure, their dads will force them to watch it, and they'll kinda like it because their dads like it. But trust me, they know it's old. They're not "into" Star Wars like they're into Roblox, Minecraft, etc.

That may be true, though most kids do like the original star wars movies, but they do like the Mandalorian and other shows and the sequels which are very recent. The constant churning out of new content keeps SW relevant and by incorporating old designs such as the X wing it keeps those relevant for younger audiences too

[Lord Insanity]

7 hours ago, danth said:

Oh, another Unpopular Opinion.

I, Danth, wished the new CLASSIC. THEMED. CREATOR. SETS into existence by sheer force of will. Search my post history if you don't believe me.

You're welcome.

I don't even have to search your post history.  I have seen it enough times to know you have been saying that for a while.  Thanks. 

[MAB]

8 hours ago, Toastie said:

Folks here on EB are excited that 50+ proposals were reaching the threshold. What does that tell you? Creativity is wonderful. What does that do with the philosophy of IDEAS? With all that Fuzz planned? It crushes the idea. Branch out to BL? What? To BL?

Well. In the big picture that is. Not with regard to IDEAS fans and folks. IDEAS is - well - negligible, as judged in the sales department. I believe, but what do I know.

However, IDEAS also represents a philosophy, I believe. That is - as per your post above - seeping through the entire "encapsulated" TLG world.

 

I think it tells us that lots of people vote now. I somehow doubt sales would be great though, if they made 50 or even just 10 ideas sets per review period. Especially if that meant they had to remove other themes due to production capacity. 

There are some great MOCs on ideas, some great creativity. But in many cases that is where they ought to stay, as MOCs.

[1974]

14 hours ago, danth said:

Also, I'd argue that almost no kids care about the original Star Wars movies. Sure, their dads will force them to watch it, and they'll kinda like it because their dads like it. But trust me, they know it's old. They're not "into" Star Wars like they're into Roblox, Minecraft, etc.

Certainly not my experience. My kids and his friends (12-13 year old) have high priase of Darth Vader and not weak sauce Bye-Low Rent. They play a lot of Battlefront

[dr_spock]

On 5/3/2021 at 11:32 PM, Johnny1360 said:

I won't even pretend to know what I am talking about but I do know those molds are very expensive to make and they can't just whip them out willy nilly, as easily as popping corn.

I would actually love to learn more about exactly how they are made.

I think LEGO used to give a figure of $250K for a mold or something like that.

If you can do the CAD work yourself, you could outsource the tooling work to China,  It isn't bad, if you can sell enough units to recover your investment and more.

Example of 3rd party train track costs

 

[1974]

It vastly depends on the mould/part. Liftarms are considerably cheaper than (Technic) bricks for instance. And vacuum forming (baseplates) much cheaper

[danth]

14 hours ago, Lord Insanity said:

I don't even have to search your post history.  I have seen it enough times to know you have been saying that for a while.  Thanks. 

Yay, someone believes me!

[1974]

And it might just happen .. the Creator sets that is