dimaks13

Technic 2020 Set Discussion

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Being a huge fan of the old Lego Technic, there's something I'd like to add something to the discussion about b-models, and even universal sets.

My kids have got a bunch of vintage Lego technic, including some universal sets (and I plan to offer them much more in the years to come). In addition, my eldest, 8 years old, has got only 1 studless set : 42092.

Here's my experience : he built 42092 A-model once, loved it, kept it on display a few months, then wanted to try the b-model ; liked it, but not as much. Kept it on display a few days, disassembled it and rebuilt the A-model. It's now been on display for a few months, and I don't know whether he'll ever disassemble it or not.

He also loves almost every old model he's got. Every time, he wants to keep them assembled to play with them... but every time, he then wants to build the other models again. He has built almost every model twice, or even 4-5 times (the car transporter 8872, the car from 8034 just to motorize it, nearly all 8062 models...). And it goes on and on and on. And in between, he often tries to build his own mocs. And I don't expect it to stop soon - he keeps asking me for more models, and bigger ones.

Of course there may be a "volume" effect : he's got much more studful lego technic than studless one. But from my point of view, i believe GOOD b-models are essential when it comes to stimulate young kids' creativity, and to extend their toys' life expectancy.

I can hear those saying that aesthetics is just too important nowadays. This isn't true for my children, who don't care at all about the looks, the colors etc... they just mix all pieces from all sets - actually they rarely care to use the right colors according to the instructions, even when they've got everything they need in their collection.

I can hear those saying that there are a lot of nice b-models that you can find on the net, no need for official ones (if only that was true for studful, I'd love it...) - but my kids are too young, I won't let them browse the internet anyway.

To conclude, from my experience as a father, I love good b, c, d-models, because they are the true reason why my kids, from 4 to 8 years-old, actually disassemble very regularly all of their models and experience with the pieces, rather than keep them on display. 

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19 minutes ago, FOFO said:

I can hear those saying that there are a lot of nice b-models that you can find on the net, no need for official ones (if only that was true for studful, I'd love it...) - but my kids are too young, I won't let them browse the internet anyway.

Most models have pdf-instructions available, so you could download them and keep your kids offline.

Good B-models are indeed a very nice addition, but unfortunately it appears to me that vast majority of official B-models aren't that great.

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1 hour ago, howitzer said:

Most models have pdf-instructions available, so you could download them and keep your kids offline.

True, but I keep them away from screens too, and i dont like to print 100+ pages instructions. Plus,I like them to be independent in their games, I dont want to go and find by myself what they can do, and then give it to them: "go build this".

But anyway - I understand the argument and mostly agree with it.

1 hour ago, howitzer said:

Good B-models are indeed a very nice addition, but unfortunately it appears to me that vast majority of official B-models aren't that great.

Untrue for many (maybe most) old models, according to my children. I can't say for the recent ones.

Just to be clear : I'm not arguing that it will be impossible to enhance creativity with lego if they don't give official b-models. I just wanted to point out, in addition to everything that has been said before, that for my very young, beginning children, good b-models (or even better, multiple models, including simple pictures with no piece call out) have proven to be the best way to get them to play with the Lego PIECES, and not only with the official finished model. 

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I think a lot of that is that studfull just seems a lot easier to work with than studless, at least there is less of a learning curve at the cost of being somewhat limited compared to more advanced studless, and a skeletal studfull design can look great whilst a skeletal studless design looks kinda crap! Of course, studded Technic bricks and plates are still in production. So really, is there anything stopping them releasing brand new, studded universal sets? These would be sets that are designed to bridge the gap between regular Lego and Technic sets, have mechanical interest (not necessarily realism) as the main focus, have instructions for multiple models (there's no real A-model as such) and being studded easy to make MOCs from for children. It could even be its own sub-theme, with one set per year, called Technic Universal or Technic Multi-model. 

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1 hour ago, allanp said:

I think a lot of that is that studfull just seems a lot easier to work with than studless, at least there is less of a learning curve at the cost of being somewhat limited compared to more advanced studless, and a skeletal studfull design can look great whilst a skeletal studless design looks kinda crap! Of course, studded Technic bricks and plates are still in production. So really, is there anything stopping them releasing brand new, studded universal sets? These would be sets that are designed to bridge the gap between regular Lego and Technic sets, have mechanical interest (not necessarily realism) as the main focus, have instructions for multiple models (there's no real A-model as such) and being studded easy to make MOCs from for children. It could even be its own sub-theme, with one set per year, called Technic Universal or Technic Multi-model. 

You're right, studful is much easier to build with, and that makes designing universal sets and high quality B-models easier too. New studful universal sets would be great, but I don't think TLG is going to do that, as they seem to be committed to studless system and only use Technic bricks in places where their strength is critical (like the boom of the 42082) or they need to connect some System parts for aesthetic effect (like 42096). There's Boost Creative Toolbox though, which has instructions for five models and is mostly made of studful parts.

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@Dylan M It is german. He says, he received those sets from LEGO... expecting some YT video deletion, loss of reseller contract, even maybe lawsuit soon... a bit stupid move.

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Thanks for linking the video!

The video is of a shop but the guy seems to deliver a objective and fair review. He repeats several time that the two pieces for the drum have several scratches and should be better protected in the box. Also one of the two manuals is broken.

He like the colour scheme, the little engine, the detailing of the cabin. The build has been a bit challenging and he must have made a mistake with one of the gears somewhere (I don't know where). The turning radius of the vehicle is quit large. The drum unloading when driving backwards looks like a flaw to me.

He will also review the Bell soon.

Edited by Go-Kart
Avoiding misunderstanding about the mistake with gears

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What he actually said is, that the build was challenging because he isnt an experienced technic builder. And that is also the reason why he made a mistake by placing the gears. There is no mistake in the instructions. 

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I hope that the powered up remote  88010  works with the new bell battery box  as would seem crazy that they would use different internal hardware from the powered up hub as there essentiality same but with a stud / stud-less deigns.

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The "hub" in the Osprey is just a battery box with two switches and two outputs. It doesn't have connectivity.

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13 minutes ago, Frequenzberater said:

What he actually said is, that the build was challenging because he isnt an experienced technic builder. And that is also the reason why he made a mistake by placing the gears. There is no mistake in the instructions. 

You are right! I have edited my text to avoid confusion.

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42113 Bell-Boeing V-22 Osprey has disappeared from the Lego (french) website. I hope it's just a glitch... as annoyed as I am at the absence of B-models I still want to get these new sets!

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The 42113 is being reviewed internally by TLG due to it being manufactured by a company that usually does military stuff.

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Damn I really hope they don't pull it permanently, it's a really nice model that I'd like to get

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1 hour ago, AVCampos said:

The 42113 is being reviewed internally by TLG due to it being manufactured by a company that usually does military stuff.

It seems a bit late to me to realize it's a military aircraft...:sceptic:

1 hour ago, Bartybum said:

Damn I really hope they don't pull it permanently, it's a really nice model that I'd like to get

Wow, I just can believe this... I seriously hope it doesn't get cancelled...

https://www.brickfanatics.com/lego-technic-42113-bell-boeing-v-22-osprey-helicopter-postponed-and-possibly-cancelled/

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Started a petition to urge The Lego Group to release lego set 42113 Osprey 

LINK: http://chng.it/4ngy4TbKbH

Please sign, share with the lego communities, lets support lego and get this set out

Edited by AirDolphin

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This decision raise so many questions....some of mine:

1.What will they do with the already manufactured,boxed and possibly worldwide shipped sets? We are 2 weeks from being released officialy.

2. TLG did not had problems with the former Creator Sonic Boom and Blue Power Jet sets. The latter one is definetaly a military plane.

3. Why now? Why not sooner?

 

 

Edited by Anak

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18 minutes ago, Anak said:

1.What will they do with the already manufactured,boxed and possibly worldwide shipped sets? We are 2 weeks from being released officialy.

They're thinking about it.

18 minutes ago, Anak said:

2. TLG did not had problems with the former Creator Sonic Boom and Blue Power Jet sets. The latter one is definetaly a military plane.

The difference is that this one is licensed from a plane that in real life allegedly exists only in military versions, whereas the others can technically represent anything.

19 minutes ago, Anak said:

3. Why now? Why not sooner?

That's the most baffling question of all...

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13 hours ago, AVCampos said:

The difference is that this one is licensed from a plane that in real life allegedly exists only in military versions, whereas the others can technically represent anything.

I agree, I think that's the crux here.  If they'd called it "Search & Rescue Tilt Rotor" rather than a licensed Osprey, we'd have all thought "that's clearly inspired by an Osprey" and that would've been that - much like 42066 is clearly an F-35B and 42070 shares it looks with the KMW Dingo Wrecker.  What's more; whilst Boeing and Bell are defence contractors, they're aircraft manufacturers first and foremost.  It's not like we're talking about a missile manufacturer where there is no civilian crossover what-so-ever.

TLG have made themselves look like fools with this whole debacle.  What I don't understand is how this ever happened in the first place.  Presumably TLG's board were aware of this product and didn't have a problem with it up until now so why change their minds because of one complaint?  Will someone now be fired for not following their (seemingly very flexible) policy on modelling military hardware?

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JANG said in a live video that this whole ordeal most likely wasn't precipitated by a few guys protesting in front of a LEGO store, but rather their own internal decision makers realising waaaaay too late that this set bent too much their self-imposed rule of "no real-life modern military stuff". That makes sense and I agree with him on that.

Independently of such a model being OK or not to be sold to kids, what went wrong was how absurdly late in the development process the "no-go" decision was made.

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If only this whole thing could help TLC realize how much we don't need licensed sets in the first place. I, for one, am perfectly fine with generic cars / trucks / planes with an occasional inspiration from real-life stuff.

What did licensed set bring to the table ? More expansive sets with no B-Models. So many sets were awesome in their own rights without having to suck up to any brand... it's just sad.

This being said, and as I already said, I really hope the Osprey finds its way to me...

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