Technic 2020 Set Discussion

[valenciaeric]

11 hours ago, Jim said:

Of course you are entitled to your opinion and preference, but I wonder what rocks your boat?

42112: Concrete Mixer Truck
42113: Bell-Boeing V-22 Osprey
42114: 6x6 Volvo Articulated Hauler
42115: Lamborghini Sián FKP 37

Calling this not exciting means we are turning into spoiled children  

We would have died for the Volvo alone a couple of years ago 

Not doing it for me. If you own the Chiron then you have the Sian. If you have 6x6 tow truck then you have the Volvo. The other 2 sets are OK but nothing to write home about. Give me a Claas tractor or 9397 logging truck over them any day. This was a missed opportunity to do a backhoe or something else we haven´t had for a longer while.

Edited June 24, 2020 by valenciaeric

[Johnny1360]

Not that I represent the vast majority of Technic set customers by a long shot but when they quit putting B-model instructions in with the sets I quit building them. 

Edit: the B-models that is. 

Edited June 26, 2020 by Johnny1360

[Jundis]

7 hours ago, Johnny1360 said:

Not that I represent the vast majority of Technic set customers by a long shot but when they quit putting B-model instructions in with the sets I quit building them. 

Edit: the B-models that is

In my experience it always depends on type/quality of the B-model. The B-Model of the 42082 just wasn't worth the build. The same goes for the 42092 and 94.

In my opinion, the imagination of Lego sadly is hindered by the marketing department, as they try so hard to avoid any B-model to be similar to another A-model. For example, there are the glorious Wheel Loader, Forklift and Offroad Truck C-model from the 42082 (Thanks to @nico71). But in the same time, Lego had the 42070, 42079 and the 42081 on sale, so no Trucks, Forklifts and Loaders as a B-model of that vehicles should challenge the A-models of the same type. I am sure Lego could very well come up with very original B-models as 42078 showed, given the designers a little more time, but sadly the marketing guys say no.

[Maaboo the Witch]

3 minutes ago, Jundis said:

In my experience it always depends on type/quality of the B-model. The B-Model of the 42082 just wasn't worth the build. The same goes for the 42092 and 94.

What the hell was wrong with 42094's B-model?

It's one of the only two Technic tracked dumpers in existence! And it could have been the A model!

[Jundis]

56 minutes ago, Maaboo35 said:

What the hell was wrong with 42094's B-model?

I think it just wasn't that good compared to the A-model. For example, they could easily have included the winch on the front, which is just left out here. Also the two springs could be used to switch-open a tailgate or something (built out of unused black panels).

Edited June 26, 2020 by Jundis
CrankyCraig :-D

[Maaboo the Witch]

7 minutes ago, Jundis said:

I think it just wasn't that good compared to the A-model. For example, they could easily have included the wench on the front, which is just left out here. Also the two springs could be used to switch-open a tailgate or something (built out of unused black panels).

Tracked dumpers of the configuration seen in 42094 generally don't have tailgates. Neither do they have winches. It's accurate.

[CrankyCraig]

18 minutes ago, Jundis said:

they could easily have included the wench on the front

Or she could have been operating it.

 

...I'll show myself out. 

[Rudivdk]

4 minutes ago, CrankyCraig said:

   ...

[Jundis]

30 minutes ago, Maaboo35 said:

Tracked dumpers of the configuration seen in 42094 generally don't have tailgates. Neither do they have winches. It's accurate

Still, we only have 2 functions here (at least if you don't count the movable levers, which Lego lists as functions ).

[agrof]

26 minutes ago, CrankyCraig said:

...

 

No B-models is no go for me. LEGO downgraded their products... LEGO should be the product, which generates creativity, inspires to build your own stuff and B-models are the best mediums to do that. Obviously this intention is gone, education, inspiration is not longer an added value what they are proud of, in return we have licensed sets, which can be sold for broader audience. In short: sold the soul for money.

[Maaboo the Witch]

1 hour ago, agrof said:

No B-models is no go for me. LEGO downgraded their products... LEGO should be the product, which generates creativity, inspires to build your own stuff and B-models are the best mediums to do that. Obviously this intention is gone, education, inspiration is not longer an added value what they are proud of, in return we have licensed sets, which can be sold for broader audience. In short: sold the soul for money.

It also removes the essence of Lego. If you want a Volvo A60H, why not just get the Tamiya version and save yourself five hours it takes to put 42114 together? Same goes for 42112 - just get a Bruder concrete mixer, since you get the same net result with the Technic version. TLG are shooting themselves in the foot with this.

[Nequmodiva]

2 hours ago, Jundis said:

In my opinion, the imagination of Lego sadly is hindered by the marketing department, as they try so hard to avoid any B-model to be similar to another A-model.

I always liked that with the B-models they often explored vehicles that aren't popular enough to get their own A-model version.

 

Some have mentioned that often there are better alternate models on rebrickable, but then Lego should have decreased prices, because many instructions on rebrickable have to be payed. Also there are sets that got no or very low attention from alternate builders.

 

[Maaboo the Witch]

25 minutes ago, Nequmodiva said:

I always liked that with the B-models they often explored vehicles that aren't popular enough to get their own A-model version.

 

Some have mentioned that often there are better alternate models on rebrickable, but then Lego should have decreased prices, because many instructions on rebrickable have to be payed. Also there are sets that got no or very low attention from alternate builders.

 

[agrof]

31 minutes ago, Nequmodiva said:

Some have mentioned that often there are better alternate models on rebrickable, but then Lego should have decreased prices, because many instructions on rebrickable have to be payed. Also there are sets that got no or very low attention from alternate builders.

Rebrickable has no comparable value to official B-models, simply because it is not widely known, and even than only among AFOLs (minority of the total market). Official B-models practically had the same marketing via printings on the box, Lego website pictures, etc... as the A-models. Hence the message of inspiration was provided to everyone. And this is one main influence how we became MOCers.

Oh well... this is history today:

 

Edited June 26, 2020 by agrof

[Gimmick]

38 minutes ago, Maaboo35 said:

It also removes the essence of Lego. If you want a Volvo A60H, why not just get the Tamiya version and save yourself five hours it takes to put 42114 together? Same goes for 42112 - just get a Bruder concrete mixer, since you get the same net result with the Technic version. TLG are shooting themselves in the foot with this.

Or get a police station from [xy], or the underwater whatever from [yz], the Crocodile from Merklin .....

Yes, B-models are a great addition, but the absence of B-models does not ruin the whole concept.

[Maaboo the Witch]

41 minutes ago, Gimmick said:

Or get a police station from [xy], or the underwater whatever from [yz], the Crocodile from Merklin .....

Exactly. Back in the 90's and early 00's, all of these sets had B-models as well, and I enjoyed figuring out how to  build them from the back of the box (I remember that surge of pride when I figured a particularly hard part out). But the net result now is, ironically, pretty much what you describe here. I feel that Lego products have been losing an intrinsic value both creative and monetary over time since the mid-00s, and much of Technic is just the latest casualty of that.

[Jim]

1 hour ago, Maaboo35 said:

It also removes the essence of Lego. 

The essence of LEGO is that you can use the parts to build something else. The essence is not that someone else provides an alternate build. Of course it's a nice addition, but it's not the essence of LEGO.

[Gimmick]

43 minutes ago, Maaboo35 said:

Exactly. Back in the 90's and early 00's, all of these sets had B-models as well, and I enjoyed figuring out how to  build them from the back of the box (I remember that surge of pride when I figured a particularly hard part out). But the net result now is, ironically, pretty much what you describe here. I feel that Lego products have been losing an intrinsic value both creative and monetary over time since the mid-00s, and much of Technic is just the latest casualty of that.

Ok, so for you a lego model with no official B-model is just a worse "real" model. Don't get me wrong, for me the whole "Lego as decoration"-concept is basically the cause of a lot of problems and I do not like it, but I cannot follow you here.

I agree it's a loss in value.

[JaBaCaDaBra]

1 hour ago, Jim said:

The essence of LEGO is that you can use the parts to build something else. The essence is not that someone else provides an alternate build. Of course it's a nice addition, but it's not the essence of LEGO.

Exactly.
The essence is that you use your own imagination to create something with the parts.
Not that pre chewed B model but you own idea's that get a physical shape.

3 hours ago, Maaboo35 said:

get the Tamiya version and save yourself five hours it takes to put 42114 together

Like sticky fingers whilst trying to glue a bunch of mismolded pieces of cheap plastic together that were even not cut from the sprue?
Oh please, don't even think about comparing such junk.

Edited June 26, 2020 by JaBaCaDaBra

[CrankyCraig]

2 hours ago, Nequmodiva said:

I always liked that with the B-models they often explored vehicles that aren't popular enough to get their own A-model version.

But as I stated previously, perhaps we'll now see more of these becoming A-models, such as 42030 B-model and 42114. Time will tell.

39 minutes ago, Jim said:

The essence of LEGO is that you can use the parts to build something else. The essence is not that someone else provides an alternate build. Of course it's a nice addition, but it's not the essence of LEGO.

I quite agree, building a B-model requires no more creativity of the builder than the A-model. Sure, it demonstrates that something else can be built that may be radically different from the A-model, but I think Lego has been around long enough that most people know that.

A better exploration of creativity may be discovered by building an entirely different official A-model set with the pieces from a set, and finding solutions for the pieces missing. They're all free to download, after all.

The world has changed a lot since Lego Technic's inception, and most in the developed world are privileged enough to enjoy a higher standard of living since then, with more disposable income to lavish on extravagances such as these. It would be interesting to know (but not likely we ever will) not only how many are building the B-models, but how many are purchasing additional sets to do so.

[Erik Leppen]

2 hours ago, Jim said:

The essence of LEGO is that you can use the parts to build something else. The essence is not that someone else provides an alternate build. Of course it's a nice addition, but it's not the essence of LEGO.

B models show the concept of part reusage and, I would hope, with all its leftover parts, would give a starting point for people to actually try this "essence" and become aware that this is even an option. Not everyone buying Lego may even cross this thought.

 

But, cynically put, TLC don't want you to reuse parts. They rather sell more new parts.

[Maaboo the Witch]

36 minutes ago, Erik Leppen said:

B models show the concept of part reusage and, I would hope, with all its leftover parts, would give a starting point for people to actually try this "essence" and become aware that this is even an option. Not everyone buying Lego may even cross this thought.

 

But, cynically put, TLC don't want you to reuse parts. They rather sell more new parts.

Nicely put, Erik.

@Jim, mate, you don't even build B-models. This is not your fight. 

1 hour ago, JaBaCaDaBra said:

Exactly.
The essence is that you use your own imagination to create something with the parts.
Not that pre chewed B model but you own idea's that get a physical shape.

Like sticky fingers whilst trying to glue a bunch of mismolded pieces of cheap plastic together that were even not cut from the sprue?
Oh please, don't even think about comparing such junk.

"Pre-chewed"? Pal, I would hardly call models like the Mack LR or 42094's tracked dumper that. And I've never bought a Tamiya kit. I build with Technic.

To those who disagree with me, I am not changing my stance. Every other theme can drop them as far as I'm concerned, but B-models should be, in my opinion (which I will stick doggedly to), part and parcel of the wider Technic theme. They add value and appeal to a set. End of.

[Parazels]

 

 

3 hours ago, Jim said:

The essence of LEGO is that you can use the parts to build something else. The essence is not that someone else provides an alternate build. Of course it's a nice addition, but it's not the essence of LEGO.

I disagree. The presence of b-models showed people that it was possible to convert their parts into something else.

Especially when those b-models were substantially different

(Motorcycle - dragster;

printing machine - crane;

space shuttle - submarine; etc).

Edited June 26, 2020 by Parazels

[Jim]

31 minutes ago, Maaboo35 said:

 

@Jim, mate, you don't even build B-models. This is not your fight. 

Guilty  

[allanp]

41 minutes ago, Parazels said:

 

 

I disagree. The presence of b-models showed people that it was possible to convert their parts into something else.

Especially when those b-models were substantially different

(Motorcycle - dragster;

printing machine - crane;

space shuttle - submarine; etc).

I think universal sets were even better at doing that. 8064 had instructions for 4 models plus more models and ideas on the back of the box for inspiration. I remember building all of them and some extra MOCs from that set. The old ungeared motor was a lot of fun to play around with.