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LEGO Star Wars 2020 Set Discussion - READ FIRST POST!!!

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1 hour ago, Mandalorianknight said:

I was thinking a similar thing. I could easily see this set without the AT-RT and battle droids releasing for $15, we've gotten tons of battle packs with the same figures before.

Either lego was smart and decided to capitalize on the hype by making it a bigger set, the designers just already had a $30 price point to work with, or both.

My theory is that its twofold.  They could've very easily given a $15 battle pack with 3 regular 501st clones and a jet trooper with a smaller (and more correctly scaled) AT-RT or BARC speeder, but they knew the demand would be high, so they jacked up the price to $30, and this way they didn't have to expand the wave to have a second battle pack, since I don't believe we've ever gotten a single battle pack released in a wave, I think they're always paired.  There also may be a lesser element of trying to detract future campaigns by not outright releasing a 501st battle pack set.  I mean, for all intents and purposes, this may as well be one, but this way they technically didn't cave to fan pressure.

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Well, I think that with set 75280, Lego is trying to increase the bricks per minifig (compared to other battle packs). I suppose that this has to do with the licence fees.

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Just now, Kit Figsto said:

 There also may be a lesser element of trying to detract future campaigns by not outright releasing a 501st battle pack set.  I mean, for all intents and purposes, this may as well be one, but this way they technically didn't cave to fan pressure.

I think this is the bigger point, one that I'm surprised campaigners haven't realized. This isn't a traditional battle pack, in fact it's a rather poor army builder once you consider the price. Even further, the changing of the figure design may be this to a fault as well (considering almost everyone expected new 501st troops to share the 2014 style). They easily could've mocked-up another battle pack if the need arose, but they didn't. They gave us what we wanted, but at a cost.

The set's still nice, but Lego clearly knows how to retain control of their product line.

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10 hours ago, ARC2149Nova said:

This isn't arguing, it's literally a statement of fact.

When you express an opinion ("we were never getting X") and try to support it with fact-based or anecdotal evidence, that is by definition is "making an argument". The counter-argument: 3+1 BPs are common enough (as you yourself pointed out in the examples you cited) that it was entirely possible to see these same four 501st figs (3 regular + 1 airborne) in a $15 BP. 

But beyond all this, I think what some people are overlooking is that a lot of kids don't actually care about getting multiples of the same fig. To them, there's more value in getting a pack of 4 different figs, or 2+1`+1, which I think is a large part of the reason why this mix is so common, even though it costs LEGO more money than doing a set with 3 or 4 identical figs. A kid only has two hands. Stormtrooper goes in one, and Han Solo goes in the other. What's a kid supposed to do with three more stormtroopers? Yes, for those of us building scenes and buying tons and tons of sets, this may seem exasperating, but to a 5, 6, 7 year old... they only need one. 

All that said, I do think LEGO is "testing the waters" with this $30 glorified BP... and strongly suspect this is a sign of things to come,

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9 hours ago, Kit Figsto said:

My theory is that its twofold.  They could've very easily given a $15 battle pack with 3 regular 501st clones and a jet trooper with a smaller (and more correctly scaled) AT-RT or BARC speeder, but they knew the demand would be high, so they jacked up the price to $30, and this way they didn't have to expand the wave to have a second battle pack, since I don't believe we've ever gotten a single battle pack released in a wave, I think they're always paired.  There also may be a lesser element of trying to detract future campaigns by not outright releasing a 501st battle pack set.  I mean, for all intents and purposes, this may as well be one, but this way they technically didn't cave to fan pressure.

This is probably the case.

3 hours ago, Balrogofmorgoth said:

I’m happy to just say “clever girl” and spend the $30 a few times over for a few 501st sets

Same here!

50 minutes ago, jdubbs said:

All that said, I do think LEGO is "testing the waters" with this $30 glorified BP... and strongly suspect this is a sign of things to come,

I think more of these types of sets would be great, I could easily see an imperial one with some small empire vehicles.

11 hours ago, ARC2149Nova said:

Tl;dr: 7/38 Battle Packs had 3-4 of the same, wholly identical figure (with the ITT technically being two types with the heads, but that's not worth splitting hairs over).

19 of the remaining 31 had 2 identical figures, about 6 of which were split 50/50.

And I've clearly established a ratio which makes my point clear. I'm not saying other battle packs don't qualify as faction specific, or anything else wild like that. My actual point, is that the idea of 4 all identical 501st clones for a $15 battle pack, at this point, was highly, highly unrealistic. That is all.

The thing is there's so many factors you have to take in here. The first, like you yourself say, it's more like 10/38, which is over 1/4th. Doesn't sound highly unrealistic to me. Then you have to take into account the 2012-2013 battle packs with opposing factions. They don't really make those anymore, so I doubt a 501st battle pack would have been 2 501st and 2 droids. There are all these factors you have to consider, such as the uniformity of the faction (a battle pack of tatooine or scarif rebels isn't going to have identical figures, neither would a bounty hunter one or one for the mandalorian covert), but the basic point is that it's not really that unrealistic to expect four 501st troopers, say, 3 privates and a jet trooper.

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1 hour ago, Mandalorianknight said:

The thing is there's so many factors you have to take in here. The first, like you yourself say, it's more like 10/38, which is over 1/4th. Doesn't sound highly unrealistic to me. Then you have to take into account the 2012-2013 battle packs with opposing factions. They don't really make those anymore, so I doubt a 501st battle pack would have been 2 501st and 2 droids. There are all these factors you have to consider, such as the uniformity of the faction (a battle pack of tatooine or scarif rebels isn't going to have identical figures, neither would a bounty hunter one or one for the mandalorian covert), but the basic point is that it's not really that unrealistic to expect four 501st troopers, say, 3 privates and a jet trooper.

Firstly, Inferno Squad doesn't count as it's not an Army Builder (we have Iden, Del, and Gideon), so if we insist on counting droids (which already outly due to figure count) 9/38 still isn't the majority.

Furthermore, you all keep insisting the overall faction would've been represented, which I never contested. And I certainly don't believe we'd have gotten a versus pack.

All I said was, that four identical 501st Privates, not 3 privates and a Jet, not 2 privates and 2 Jets, 4 Privates, the run-of-the-mill troopers, weren't going to be presented at the $15 mark. That's all I was saying. The only packs with 4 identical troopers are all told around 3 (ITT, Rebel Scout, and Death Watch).

If you insist that 4 501st figures means "four blue clones", fine, but that was never anyone's contention.

Hopefully that clears everything up.

2 hours ago, jdubbs said:

When you express an opinion ("we were never getting X") and try to support it with fact-based or anecdotal evidence, that is by definition is "making an argument". The counter-argument: 3+1 BPs are common enough (as you yourself pointed out in the examples you cited) that it was entirely possible to see these same four 501st figs (3 regular + 1 airborne) in a $15 BP...  

All that said, I do think LEGO is "testing the waters" with this $30 glorified BP... and strongly suspect this is a sign of things to come,

I wasn't attempting to debate or argue anyone. I simply made a reply to someone's question. 

And if $30 battle packs will become the norm, then what's to become of the $15 to ones?

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I've skimmed through this and haven't much to say other than to "And if $30 battle packs will become the norm, then what's to become of the $15 to ones?"

I firmly believe LEGO has accidentally stumbled into something pretty cool they can do. It would have them releasing two $15 Battle Packs in January as they typically would but then a much larger $30 Battle Pack in the Summer w/ more figs or even potentially (in my mind) something like a Rebels vs Stormtroopers set. (Insert more ideas I'm sure theres dozens) Obviously other Clone legions/troops like Galactic Marines are highly coveted and it'd be nice to see those show up one year. If I was in charge, $30 Battle Packs would be a Summer mainstay going forward. 

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Just now, MandRproductions said:

I firmly believe LEGO has accidentally stumbled into something pretty cool they can do. It would have them releasing two $15 Battle Packs in January as they typically would but then a much larger $30 Battle Pack in the Summer w/ more figs or even potentially (in my mind) something like a Rebels vs Stormtroopers set. (Insert more ideas I'm sure theres dozens) Obviously other Clone legions/troops like Galactic Marines are highly coveted and it'd be nice to see those show up one year. If I was in charge, $30 Battle Packs would be a Summer mainstay going forward. 

I'm not so sure they would keep the $15 battle packs. I think if this set proves successful (which in all likelihood it will be), it could easily pave the way for sets like this to replace the Battle Packs altogether... for better or worse. Leaves room for Microfighters to (inevitably) creep up to the $15 price point, with duels covering the $20-25 spot. 

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40 minutes ago, jdubbs said:

I'm not so sure they would keep the $15 battle packs. I think if this set proves successful (which in all likelihood it will be), it could easily pave the way for sets like this to replace the Battle Packs altogether... for better or worse. Leaves room for Microfighters to (inevitably) creep up to the $15 price point, with duels covering the $20-25 spot. 

Man, for some of us that've been buying these for 13 years now, $15 is high compared to the original $9.99 and then $11.99/12.99 that these were for a while.  I think the $30 concept is cool in terms of better playability, more figures, that sort of thing, but this would probably eliminate the more character driven battle packs (like Tattooine or Bounty Hunters) since I feel like it's harder to shoehorn those types of characters into a mid-sized set as opposed to throwing in a random speeder that doesn't actually exist just so that you can justify a $15 price point for Bossk, IG-88, 4-LOM and Dengar.  I suppose you could make it work with things like the Jedi and Clones battle pack, but ones that are straight up character packs I think wouldn't be as doable.

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1 hour ago, jdubbs said:

I'm not so sure they would keep the $15 battle packs. I think if this set proves successful (which in all likelihood it will be), it could easily pave the way for sets like this to replace the Battle Packs altogether... for better or worse. Leaves room for Microfighters to (inevitably) creep up to the $15 price point, with duels covering the $20-25 spot. 

I'm not sure. While I like @MandRproductions idea of two battlepacks with a summer wave $30 set, I don't think we can take the demand for subsequent sets to be the same for the 501st, certainly not enough to outdo two $15 battlepacks' worth, since people have been clamouring for it for so long. I don't think kids would go for a $30 set with three each of rebels and stormtroopers, say, over two battlepacks.

The other thing is whether they would put that many figs in a $30 set; battle droids are cheaper to make than minifigs so including them in a set like this doesn't hurt LEGO too much. Even some of the most expensive sets in this wave don't have six bona fide minifgs (not counting droids), so $30 army builders would have some pretty crappy builds which I'm not sure would wash with kids, who are the main market as always.

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2 hours ago, MandRproductions said:

I've skimmed through this and haven't much to say other than to "And if $30 battle packs will become the norm, then what's to become of the $15 to ones?"

I firmly believe LEGO has accidentally stumbled into something pretty cool they can do. It would have them releasing two $15 Battle Packs in January as they typically would but then a much larger $30 Battle Pack in the Summer w/ more figs or even potentially (in my mind) something like a Rebels vs Stormtroopers set. (Insert more ideas I'm sure theres dozens) Obviously other Clone legions/troops like Galactic Marines are highly coveted and it'd be nice to see those show up one year. If I was in charge, $30 Battle Packs would be a Summer mainstay going forward. 

That would be a cool idea, although it might not always be a $30 battle pack but something like your rebel vs stormtrooper example, or just a more minifigure-heavy set.

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I'd be surprised if $30 battle packs became the norm going forward. Shifting every battle pack to this price point would kill the entire point of most battle packs, having a relatively cheap option to army build. Popularity is also a concern, while it could work for more popular factions like the 501st Legion, it's nice buying a $15 set of say, First Order Executioners or the Tatooine Battle Pack, but would something like that really sell at double the price? Not to mention on the consumer's side it would have to include a whopping 8 minifigs to be an equivalent value to the battle packs. Anything less and you'd surely have a lot of disgruntled AFOLs who don't see the point in paying the same price as two battle packs to get less minifigs.

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42 minutes ago, TeddytheSpoon said:

I'm not sure. While I like @MandRproductions idea of two battlepacks with a summer wave $30 set, I don't think we can take the demand for subsequent sets to be the same for the 501st, certainly not enough to outdo two $15 battlepacks' worth, since people have been clamouring for it for so long. I don't think kids would go for a $30 set with three each of rebels and stormtroopers, say, over two battlepacks.

The other thing is whether they would put that many figs in a $30 set; battle droids are cheaper to make than minifigs so including them in a set like this doesn't hurt LEGO too much. Even some of the most expensive sets in this wave don't have six bona fide minifgs (not counting droids), so $30 army builders would have some pretty crappy builds which I'm not sure would wash with kids, who are the main market as always.

The cost of including minifigs in sets goes down the more the figs (or their parts) can be reused. So, including 3 identical stormtroopers is less expensive than including a stormtrooper, a snow trooper, and a biker scout, for instance. This is partly how the Harry Potter sets manage to have so many figs in them, for the same price... they often reuse the same Gryffindor torsos, or unprinted legs, on multiple figs in a set (I also suspect licensing fees are lower, but that's another matter). 

If there's one thing you can be sure of, it's that prices will go up. If LEGO can find a way to sell us $30 battle packs rather than $15 battle packs, they will do so. Even if they sell half as many, the margins on one $30 set are higher than two $15 sets... the baseline costs of printing, packaging, distribution all get cut in half (give or take).

7 minutes ago, BigGuy4U said:

I'd be surprised if $30 battle packs became the norm going forward. Shifting every battle pack to this price point would kill the entire point of most battle packs, having a relatively cheap option to army build. 

The point of Battle Packs is to sell figs. They are essentially an end-run around Hasbro's edict that LEGO cannot sell minifigs individually. (Side note: take that restriction away... would we still get battle packs? Probably not...) The army building aspect appeals to a lot of AFOLs (some more than others) but I would not agree it's the "point" of LEGO producing these sets. More a means to an end.

9 minutes ago, BigGuy4U said:

Anything less and you'd surely have a lot of disgruntled AFOLs who don't see the point in paying the same price as two battle packs to get less minifigs.

If there's one thing I've learned on this forum, it's that there will be disgruntled AFOLs, always, no matter what.

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2 hours ago, jdubbs said:

I'm not so sure they would keep the $15 battle packs. I think if this set proves successful (which in all likelihood it will be), it could easily pave the way for sets like this to replace the Battle Packs altogether... for better or worse. Leaves room for Microfighters to (inevitably) creep up to the $15 price point, with duels covering the $20-25 spot. 

My question is will LEGO in your opinion consider the facts that 1. Ryan popularized this set and some people will buy it just to support him, 2. 501st are top wanted figures and one of the coolest armies to collect, 3. end of clone wars nostalgia buy,when deciding if they should remove 15$ battle packs? 

And do you know how good the mandalorian battle packs sold? Some of us had real trouble getting them,was it cause of global stuff happening or they sold super well?

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12 minutes ago, PreVizsla said:

My question is will LEGO in your opinion consider the facts that 1. Ryan popularized this set and some people will buy it just to support him, 2. 501st are top wanted figures and one of the coolest armies to collect, 3. end of clone wars nostalgia buy,when deciding if they should remove 15$ battle packs? 

And do you know how good the mandalorian battle packs sold? Some of us had real trouble getting them,was it cause of global stuff happening or they sold super well?

When I said "this may be a sign of things to come" I meant more long-term — like a few years down the line. So maybe after releasing another set or two like this one, if they do well, they might transition from $15 BPs to something more like the $30 501st. I doubt they would do it based on the success of just one set. But who knows... we could also get a CMF next year and they discontinue the BPs outright. Hasbro's and LEGO's licensees were just renegotiated, after all. Anything's possible.

From what I saw the Mandalorian BP inventory was constrained well before COVID, I assume because as one of only two Mandalorian sets available at the time (the other was also hard to find in some markets) it was just a very popular set. (It should be noted that the Praetorian Guards and Inferno Squad BPs were equally hard to find when they first came out, too... so some of it might just be retailers not ordering enough of these sets when they launch).

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There have been some legitimate discussion going on here. But after 3 pages I'm going to call it off track now. Let's try to get back on target.

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Despite everything, all told I love the 501st set. Don't know how it'll affect things going forward, but as with Duel on Starkiller Base, sets that are a new spin on an old concept can bring good things. I firmly believe there's room for both types of battle pack, and I think Lego knows that. This might even be better than a normal battle pack (post-2014): we get real blasters! :laugh:

4 hours ago, jdubbs said:

The point of Battle Packs is to sell figs. They are essentially an end-run around Hasbro's edict that LEGO cannot sell minifigs individually. (Side note: take that restriction away... would we still get battle packs? Probably not...) The army building aspect appeals to a lot of AFOLs (some more than others) but I would not agree it's the "point" of LEGO producing these sets. More a means to an end.

Not to start anything, but I will say this: the initial advertising for the first 8 battle packs (2007-2010) had "Build Your Army" literally on the box. And over time, nothing's really changed, but like with Hasbro's Battle Packs, some are more figure packs and some are pure army builders. The term is just interchangeable.

1 hour ago, 2lazeetomakeaname said:

So LEGO is at SDCC, so I wouldn't be surprised If we get a reveal of something. I'd say either The Child buildable figure or maybe a January set

It would be wonderful to get a set reveal, I personally hope it's a set for next year, but I don't recall if they've done that in recent years.

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4 hours ago, PreVizsla said:

My question is will LEGO in your opinion consider the facts that 1. Ryan popularized this set and some people will buy it just to support him, 2. 501st are top wanted figures and one of the coolest armies to collect

And do you know how good the mandalorian battle packs sold? Some of us had real trouble getting them,was it cause of global stuff happening or they sold super well?

I don't know about the third, but I don't think the 501st being one of the "coolest armies" is a fact, and I'm not sure many people will buy the set for the sole reason of "supporting" a youtuber. It's not a lego ideas set, he's not getting a share of the profit.

2 hours ago, 2lazeetomakeaname said:

So LEGO is at SDCC, so I wouldn't be surprised If we get a reveal of something. I'd say either The Child buildable figure or maybe a January set

Probably the child, if that set's really coming out in the fall they've got to reveal images soon.

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1 hour ago, ARC2149Nova said:

It would be wonderful to get a set reveal, I personally hope it's a set for next year, but I don't recall if they've done that in recent years.

Last year the Landspeeder and Obi Wans hut were revealed

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5 minutes ago, Mandalorianknight said:

 I don't think the 501st being one of the "coolest armies" is a fact,

It's the most famous "Faction" in Star Wars, mainly due to the Clone Wars TV series and of course the costuming organization. There's also the fact that they're canonically (and Legendarily) Vader's Fist, the best stormtroopers in the Empire, and with how many of us love stormtroopers, I think the 501st can rightly be called the coolest Star Wars army. It works whether you love the prequels or originals more. To reiterate, Stormtroopers under Vader are 501st too (always have been), and the most iconic Star Wars soldier is? :wink:

I mean, it doesn't get much more iconic than the 501st.

Just now, 2lazeetomakeaname said:

Last year the Landspeeder and Obi Wans hut were revealed

You're right. So I guess it wouldn't be too much to ask for a repeat of that.

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Just now, 2lazeetomakeaname said:

Last year the Landspeeder and Obi Wans hut were revealed

Hey, that's true, we could totally see some january 2021 sets revealed!

I'm guessing something mandalorian related, they'll want to promote that.

Just now, ARC2149Nova said:

It's the most famous "Faction" in Star Wars, mainly due to the Clone Wars TV series and of course the costuming organization. There's also the fact that they're canonically (and Legendarily) Vader's Fist, the best stormtroopers in the Empire, and with how many of us love stormtroopers, I think the 501st can rightly be called the coolest Star Wars army. It works whether you love the prequels or originals more. To reiterate, Stormtroopers under Vader are 501st too (always have been), and the most iconic Star Wars soldier is? :wink:

I mean, it doesn't get much more iconic than the 501st.

I mean maybe it's the most well-known clone legion but I was responding to someone who said that the 501st as the "coolest army to collect" was a fact. Please do not try to argue that the 501st is the objectively coolest faction in star wars, I don't think "coolness" can be factually measured.

Besides, the 212th and coruscant guard are better :tongue:.

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8 minutes ago, Mandalorianknight said:

Besides, the 212th and coruscant guard are better :tongue:.

Well of course they are! :laugh:

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3 minutes ago, Mandalorianknight said:

 I don't think "coolness" can be factually measured.

Besides, the 212th and coruscant guard are better :tongue:.

I said one of the coolest not the coolest. I agree its matter of preference.
Death Watch and senate commandos ftw.

Thanks for answering @jdubbs, idk how i would feel about Star Wars CMF instead of battle packs. I guess it would be great if they made them every year like CMF series. Would still like to have something like this 30$ 501st set for army building with some useful builds/vehicles. Hopefully they finally get permission to sell separate figures then we can get accessory packs and old magnets back.

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