LEGO Star Wars 2020 Set Discussion - READ FIRST POST!!!

[Mandalorianknight]

28 minutes ago, ARC2149Nova said:

I'll also add to that the fact that most of our last few prequel sets have been mostly limited to Kashyyyk (as far as the movies go), and I now understand many fans' problems with Hoth. The prequels are full of various locales, many of which we still haven't seen. That's also an issue with OT sets, most of them recently have been Tatooine related, with few ventures outside of that.

I believe that perhaps 2021 will see a greater variety, with more long-awaited vehicles/characters from across the board.

I feel like this is more of the problem. Taken objectively, this is a good wave, all the sets offer something of value. But put together, it's an odd bunch.

Yup, lego loves their kashyyyk sets. In the past few years, we've had Spider droid, Droid Gunship, AT-RT, AT-AP, the turbo tank, and I'm probably missing some. I think so too, there won't be any new films or shows that year besides Mando S3 and possibly one of the other shows, and they don't get full waves.  

[jdubbs]

15 minutes ago, ARC2149Nova said:

You seem to be extremely combative.

I'm not actually, but reading this post I could say the same of you...

15 minutes ago, ARC2149Nova said:

My point is that some concerns are quite valid. And I'd like for you to quit bringing up my previous statements as a reason to shut down my argument. Whether you agree or not, it doesn't change the fact that some people (and I'm not talking about myself for the record) being disappointed in this wave's selection. I've given my thoughts on the wave, and for the most part, I think it's quite good, all things considered, but the fact remains the same, it could always be better. Would anyone really complain if Soulless One was an ARC-170? Would anyone really complain if AAT was any other vehicle with the same or similar figure selection? The answer is no. Or at least, not many. So yes, some fans are disappointed. They have every right to be, just like everyone else has the right to meme on Snowspeeders, wish for more detail, etc.

I'm also not saying that there aren't people who wanted a new AAT, Grievous Fighter, whatever else. But I did suggest simple changes that would keep the sets fresh (Anakin's fighter being green, Soulless One costing less, etc.). But, you cherry-pick my response and bring up a past comment as reason to dispel any critique of Lego and their choices. I tend to follow the SW fandom at large, so I have my reasons for certain opinions, but my "original" post was defending other fans who were disappointed. I never said the prequels are the only sets with remakes, and I contended your examples of "pointless remakes" to prove a point that some remakes are quite warranted. But perhaps we should be talking about Lego's strategy at large, regardless of the material involved.

If people are upset over this wave, it's their right. Just because you like it, just because I'm okay with it, doesn't mean everyone has to agree.

You're missing my point entirely. I don't like this wave any more than you do. I agree with all your criticisms of the wave, and suggestions for improvements. (You may recall that I warned this wave was going to underwhelm about 3 months ago). My only point, for the last time, is that the same sort of criticisms (valid, at least to some of us) get made of the OT, the ST, the anthology-focused waves. If you're primarily a PT fan perhaps you're not as attuned to them, but the PT is definitely not singled out — LEGO is an equal-opportunity shafter. You feel strongly about the PT, and the PT has been sidelined during the ST, and so maybe the slights made against those sets feel worse to you. But they're no different than what the OT (or even ST) fans feel when we get a bunch of sets that had potential but turn out to be a let-down... which happens all too often.

[MandRproductions]

On 6/17/2020 at 2:18 PM, Mandalorianknight said:

According to mandrproductions, the $40 set and bespin convention exclusive are different sets.

I guess he's been right before with vader's castle and the 501st set, so I guess it's a possibility.

If true this begs the question, what is the $40 set? @jdubbs hint makes it sound like a 40th anniversary empire strikes back set, but I'm not sure what it could be at that price. A larger version of hoth attack? Another snowspeeder, this time just more overpriced?

 

I should say I don't know that they are specifically "different" sets. I had known about 75294 for a while before Bespin came along so I assumed they're separate. They did give the Vader bust at $40 a set number last year so it is in all likely hood the same set IMO. Just hadn't thought about it until now.

[ARC2149Nova]

Just now, jdubbs said:

I'm not actually, but reading this post I could say the same of you...

My bad then, I was a bit shook at the satisfaction comment, so I apologize.

1 minute ago, jdubbs said:

You're missing my point entirely. I don't like this wave any more than you do. I agree with all your criticisms of the wave, and suggestions for improvements. (You may recall that I warned this wave was going to underwhelm about 3 months ago). My only point, for the last time, is that the same sort of criticisms (valid, at least to some of us) get made of the OT, the ST, the anthology-focused waves. If you're primarily a PT fan perhaps you're not as attuned to them, but the PT is definitely not singled out — LEGO is an equal-opportunity shafter. You feel strongly about the PT, and the PT has been sidelined during the ST, and so maybe the slights made against those sets feel worse to you. But they're no different than what the OT (or even ST) fans feel when we get a bunch of sets that had potential but turn out to be a let-down... which happens all too often.

I see your point a bit clearer now. Again, I apologize for misunderstanding earlier posts. Like I said, it's a strategy issue at LEGO, one that hopefully can be fixed now that the movies have halted.

[MGS6735]

51 minutes ago, jdubbs said:

You may wish for "better" sets, but there are others who are happy with these exact choices. For every PT fan that is annoyed at getting another Soulless One or Jedi Starfighter, there is one happy to have a second chance at it.

I can only speak for myself here. My problem isn't with the selection of sets that we got, it's with the execution.

I'm happy that we got a new Anakin's Interceptor. I understand the critiques of it being so similar to the last one that came out six years ago. I and others don't have that vehicle, so I'm glad to see Lego remake it, even though it is similar to the last one.

I'm also happy to see a new Grievous' Starfighter. I have the 2010 version, so it isn't a very high priority for me, but people getting another chance at Grievous and that vehicle isn't something I'm opposed to.

The execution of these sets leaves something to be desired. Anakin's Mustafar robes and headset for his Interceptor, the strange AT-RT build in the 501st set, the entire AAT build, and the price and figure selection of Grievous' Starfighter are all things that could have been improved. Lego can make good renditions of these things because they have in the past (2014 Interceptor, 2013 and 2019 AT-RT with the 2012 BARC, 2009 AAT and the 2015 one to a lesser extent, 2010 Grievous' Starfighter). My problem is not with the idea of the sets, it is that Lego is clearly capable of doing better than they did with these particular sets because they have historically with fewer parts available and less advanced technology.

And in regards to the PT debate, I pointed out that I think the PT sets in this wave are of noticeably lower quality than the other sets in this wave in the last post I made (I won't run through all of that again here). I don't know why this is the case, as it could be any number of things. The PT has had sets in recent history that have been quite good (Droid Gunship, AT-AP, Clone Scout Walker, etc.), but it has also had sets that have been disappointing (Grievous' Combat Speeder, Jedi and Clone Trooper Battle Pack, AAT, etc.). Ultimately, the reason could be something like (spitball time; no idea if these are anywhere close to correct):

-PT sets of recent tend to be smaller. Lego cuts more corners with smaller sets because they are less expensive and those cuts will be more likely to be overlooked by consumers.

-Lego thinks that the people who buy PT sets are less likely to care if the sets are of lower quality because of the small prequel drought that started with TFA.

-Lego cuts more corners with PT sets because they perceive their market to be younger and less focused on small inaccuracies.

I don't think the reason is that Lego hates the PT. As @jdubbs said, Lego doesn't just focus on one portion of the Star Wars fanbase to shaft (and we got lots of PT stuff when CW came out originally). There have been bad OT sets (20th Snowspeeder left some things to be desired) and ST sets (First Order AT-ST). Maybe I notice it more due to the lack of PT sets and that I've started to care more about the small details as I've gotten older. All that I'm saying and what it seems like others are saying is that the PT sets in this particular wave are somewhat disappointing, whether that is due to what they could have been or what they ended up being.

Also, everyone's entitled to their own opinion on this wave and other sets. As someone who is focused on the PT, I'm probably more critical of those sets than I am of OT sets, and someone who likes OT sets is more critical of them than they are of PT sets. Whatever the reason is, the people on this forum tend to be hyper-invested in Lego Star Wars, and as we've seen time and time again, we are very good at finding things to complain about where most Lego consumers wouldn't because we care more about these things than the average Lego Star Wars consumer.

But as I've been typing this, this whole debate pretty much resolved itself, so hm. I still hold that these particular PT sets in this wave have room for improvement, but that this isn't an issue specifically related to PT sets. I'm happy for what we get and the potential to improve those sets with mods, but that doesn't excuse many of the issues these PT sets and other non-PT sets have. I assume it all comes down to Lego's internal strategy for choosing what sets to make and how to make them that churns out new Snowspeeders and Landspeeders on a regular basis. I'm not trying to restart this debate, but those are my thoughts on the matter.

[N8thanAshley2]

On 6/16/2020 at 2:35 PM, legolandia said:

I do believe that. The ISD has had a 15% off at JOhn Lewis twice in the space of 3 months (one just before lockdown and the other a couple of weeks ago).

Well, if Lego was expecting the ISD to sell as hot as the MF then they were very much mistaken. The MF is an iconic ship and nothing else can outsell it. You can't release the ISD straight after MF, just slap the same price on the ISD and expect it to sell as well. £100 less and it would have a chance.

I’ve picked up two since launch @ £480 & £500. I think that says it all...

On 6/15/2020 at 4:38 PM, Mandalorianknight said:

Sounds great, it's got crazy aftermarket prices and the Lambda's a great design

Just sold mine for £500 and EBay is slowly starting to flood with them so the price is coming down and down. I hope the rumour is true because I’ve only sold my current one in order to pick up a couple of the remakes when released, I otherwise would’ve kept it. Fingers crossed!

[Mandalorianknight]

1 hour ago, MandRproductions said:

I should say I don't know that they are specifically "different" sets. I had known about 75294 for a while before Bespin came along so I assumed they're separate. They did give the Vader bust at $40 a set number last year so it is in all likely hood the same set IMO. Just hadn't thought about it until now.

Ok, good to know. 

[samsz_3]

Would Disney actively block LEGO from creating any more EU/Legends sets?

[jdubbs]

3 minutes ago, samsz_3 said:

Would Disney actively block LEGO from creating any more EU/Legends sets?

I think they would actively discourage it, at minimum. Confuses consumers as to what is (current) canon and what isn't, and could make it harder for Lucasfilm to deviate from EU/Legends in future shows/movies.

[RODDY]

Personally I someone who likes all the movies and eras besides TFA, I think this is a very solid wave, best one in years. Most of the time I buy the UCS sets and call it day. Already pre ordered the Razorcrest, 90% chance of getting Final Duel (great upgrade), AT-AT, and Night Buzzard (yes LEGO call it by it’s actually name). Probably pick up the 501st pack to complement the UCS Gunship. But I agree that PT got shafted the worst. I like AAT’s but personally I always preferred the tan color scheme better. And the Soulless One is such a pass set, never been a big fan of that ship. While both Souless and Buzzard appear for a scene, the Buzzard is a way cooler ship. Would love to see some more Geonosis scenes of the droid factory or some vehicles like ARC 170 and 
 

9 minutes ago, samsz_3 said:

Would Disney actively block LEGO from creating any more EU/Legends sets?

No, Hasbro has been putting out EU Black Series of late with Nihilus and Revan and Force Unleashed Stormtroopers. So I wouldn’t see them specifically targeting Lego about it. I just don’t think LEGO sees money in it though, would love to see an updated Rogue Shadow one day with updates minifigs and a Rahm Kota. Lego has been playing it safe with Star Wars, that’s why we will probably never see EU sets again.

Edited June 19, 2020 by RODDY

[jdubbs]

8 minutes ago, RODDY said:

No, Hasbro has been putting out EU Black Series of late with Nihilus and Revan and Force Unleashed Stormtroopers. So I wouldn’t see them specifically targeting Lego about it. I just don’t think LEGO sees money in it though, would love to see an updated Rogue Shadow one day with updates minifigs and a Rahm Kota. Lego has been playing it safe with Star Wars, that’s why we will probably never see EU sets again.

Revan was a fan's choice figure though, wasn't he...? If so, might've been harder for Lucasfilm to object to that one at least. But I think you're right... it probably boils down to what LEGO thinks would sell more than Disney/Lucasfilm helicoptering the line.

[RODDY]

12 minutes ago, jdubbs said:

Revan was a fan's choice figure though, wasn't he...? If so, might've been harder for Lucasfilm to object to that one at least. But I think you're right... it probably boils down to what LEGO thinks would sell more than Disney/Lucasfilm helicoptering the line.

Yeah Revan was the fan poll favorite, but this year has has been stacked with EU non fan poll black series. Also just checked that Funko is doing pops based on old EU as well with the Shadow Trooper, Darth Malak, and Darth Revan which is an awesome surprise. So I’m pretty sure it’s on the company on whenever if they want to produce EU stuff or not

[2maxwell]

Is the Legends line even a well differentiated thing? According to Bricklink, there have been 4 new Legends sets since the new canon was established, but none of them carry any real "Legends" branding. The last one was the Republic Fighter Tank which was in 2017. That was 2 years after the first 3 Legends sets. I don't see that as so long ago that they'll never do it again, but it's worth considering that pretty much all of them other than the Anakin starfighter don't really contradict anything in the current canon. They're not exactly introducing new characters or anything. The fighter tank even got included in the Battlefront game making it canon again.

[Gorilla94]

The tank is quite iconic. I don't know how many hours I spend in it playing the old Pandemic battlefront 2 game. It is the kind of little model that creates new AFOLs, who wouldn't buy a 200 or 350€  set but still stay loyal customers giving Lego money on a regular basis. I think our chances are higher to get more old EU-sets after the "success" of Disneys own productions (except Mandalorian of course).

If it wouldn't be kicked out of the competition because of the existing SW licence i'd put a Ebon Hawk Set on Lego ideas... would sell like sliced bread among video game nerds as well as Star wars fans :/

[Brickadeer]

13 hours ago, jdubbs said:

I'm with you. If you look at the actual Stormtrooper costume, white hips seems way more accurate. I think people just have a nostalgic fondness for the black hips dating back to the first stormtroopers, and resist change, even when it produces a more accurate product.

For me, it's not a "nostalgic fondness". It's about what looks good and what doesn't. Both the proportions and the structure of a lego figure are very different from an actual human body. Thus, to me, the term "more accurate product" has a very limited meaning.

Besides that, the more important question is if Lego should strive for "more accuracy" even if "more accuracy" doesn't translate into "better looking". And the fact is that such an automatic mechanism of translation simply doesn't exist.

edit:

I'd like to elaborate since the question if the hips' color is accurate or not is besides the point.

To me, the black hips always represented the space between pieces of armor. This space is now represented by some small triangles printed to the legs. To me, the black hips did a better job. The reason is that they seperated the legs from the upper body, and in doing so, they were an accurate representation of this single functional "real-world" aspect.

Plus, most critics started with their observation or impression that the new troopers are "too white" or "too plain". And I think that their observation is correct, the "real" troopers in the movies or series never looked that plain and white. So the question is how reduce the total amount of white within certain boundaries, and I think that black hips or blue arms or black hips and blue arms can do the job.

 

 

Edited June 19, 2020 by Brickadeer

[MGS6735]

3 hours ago, 2maxwell said:

Is the Legends line even a well differentiated thing?

Based on what I can tell, Legends has become a kind of catch-all for sets that actually may be from Legends, things that are just strange combinations of things that never exactly meet up in Star Wars canon, and Lego-original vehicles in sets like battle packs. I don't think that is an accurate definition, but it's the only explanation for things like the fighter tank being in Legends sets according to Bricklink.

Brickset's Legends subtheme of Star Wars focuses more on stuff from Legends and Lego-original vehicles in sets like battle packs, even though some of them (like the TIE Defender) have become part of canon since they were made as sets. Brickest's definition seems more accurate to sets actually based on Legends. 

4 hours ago, samsz_3 said:

Would Disney actively block LEGO from creating any more EU/Legends sets?

I don't think Disney would block Lego outright. We've gotten sets like the Sandspeeder since Disney acquired Star Wars that aren't based on something canon. That shows that more Legends sets are possible, but I think the determining factor would be if Lego thinks it will sell well as @RODDY stated.

[jdubbs]

7 hours ago, Brickadeer said:

For me, it's not a "nostalgic fondness". It's about what looks good and what doesn't.

What I mean by "nostalgic fondness" is that, like it or not, what "looks good" to you is informed by what you've seen before... what you're used to. Depending on how old you are and when you started collecting LEGO, you've had 15-20 years with the black hips stormtrooper... that's not a bell you can unring.

7 hours ago, Brickadeer said:

I'd like to elaborate since the question if the hips' color is accurate or not is besides the point.

"Beside the point" to you, perhaps.... but I don't think you can unilaterally dismiss accuracy from the discussion, or from other peoples' opinions. You see the black hips as representing the gaps between armor plates; I've always seen it as a black thong. In part because — going back to accuracy — the actual costume cod piece and belt are white, not black. 

You're certainly entitled to your opinion. There are cases where I prefer a less-accurate option over the technically-more-accurate one, too... RotJ Luke's hair, for instance. That bulbous 30+ year old hair piece triggers me, and for that reason alone I swap them out, even though it's the closest match to his on-screen hair.

[BigGuy4U]

12 hours ago, samsz_3 said:

Would Disney actively block LEGO from creating any more EU/Legends sets?

I don't think so, outside of Lego there's a lot of other recent Legends merch as already mentioned, the Old Republic MMO which is set in Legends continuity is still being supported with new content and updates, the old Legends Star Wars comic recently got a few new issues for Marvel's anniversary, the Star Wars: Galaxy of Heroes app had several months straight of content from the Old Republic games a little over a year ago, and they're still pulling content from Legends for the comics and even Ep. IX. Legends is definitely still around even if it's not canon anymore, but I wouldn't expect too much from it from Lego considering how much content the current canon already has to work with, and how little EU material was represented in Lego even when it was still canon.

[Mandalorianknight]

11 hours ago, RODDY said:

Yeah Revan was the fan poll favorite, but this year has has been stacked with EU non fan poll black series. Also just checked that Funko is doing pops based on old EU as well with the Shadow Trooper, Darth Malak, and Darth Revan which is an awesome surprise. So I’m pretty sure it’s on the company on whenever if they want to produce EU stuff or not

The other two are definitely legends, but shadow trooper exists in a weird semi-canon. It was in the 2015 battlefront, so they're canon, but haven't been in any story content as far as I'm aware. (Fun fact though, the helmet of a shadow scout trooper is in Rogue One)

11 hours ago, 2maxwell said:

Is the Legends line even a well differentiated thing? According to Bricklink, there have been 4 new Legends sets since the new canon was established, but none of them carry any real "Legends" branding. The last one was the Republic Fighter Tank which was in 2017. That was 2 years after the first 3 Legends sets. I don't see that as so long ago that they'll never do it again, but it's worth considering that pretty much all of them other than the Anakin starfighter don't really contradict anything in the current canon. They're not exactly introducing new characters or anything. The fighter tank even got included in the Battlefront game making it canon again.

Even then, the tx-130 was retroactively made canon by battlefront 2 a year or two later. It's important to note, in this random discussion about legends that popped up, that since there is no legends branding, what is and isn't legends can be hard to discern. Brickset lists 6 legends sets that came out after the new canon was made, but I don't think they're right. The Senate Commandos battle pack is there, which is perfectly canon since they were in the canon clone wars show, but they're missing the tx-130, which wasn't canon at the point of release.

Looking at all the sets that have come out since the new canon, I've got 2 sets that are "legends", excluding the sets made for the lego shows:

Anakin's custom jedi starfighter: clearly based on 2003 2d clone wars cartoon, a legends property

Shadow troopers: design of shadow troopers isn't the canon one, shadow guards are from legends.

Both Brickset and Bricklink list the 20th anniversary imperial dropship, but since the shadow trooper looks like the battlefront 2015 design, it could go either way.

Geonosis troopers is a really weird one because it's not canon but I can't find legends material of it either, and don't think it was made for one of the lego shows. The same with the sandspeeder, it's based on a kenner prototype that's not even part of the legends canon, and even weirder it's got the helmet rey puts on in TFA in it.

[ARC2149Nova]

1 hour ago, jdubbs said:

What I mean by "nostalgic fondness" is that, like it or not, what "looks good" to you is informed by what you've seen before... what you're used to. Depending on how old you are and when you started collecting LEGO, you've had 15-20 years with the black hips stormtrooper... that's not a bell you can unring.

I think the real problem is contrast. We've had white hips clones before (2007's AT-AP Shock Troopers). Clearly, it was ahead of it's time, and didn't look good then, and it looks no better in hindsight. The old 327th Troopers had white arms, where yellow would've been more accurate, but they still look good (at least to me). But these new figures are clearly missing something. That something is contrast. Also, we've had 4 white hipped Stormies before too. Guess where? Imperial Inspection from 2005. And those are still cool Stormtroopers. Thing is though, they had printing on the hips that transitioned the belt from torso to legs. That was something they could've done with the clones here, but they didn't.

Case in point: Airborne 2.0 (let's call him Barlex). Barlex looks damn good, and he's got the same things going on as the 501st. Difference? Well the kama doesn't hurt, but there's enough contrast with the orange and black on the torso, and as others have noted, his print carries through the hips. (Sidenote: His legs lack the scratch-marks, which irks me, but oh well)

From a design aspect, Lego is allowed to take creative liberties. Black hips and blue arms fall under that. 501st Troopers might not have full blue stripes down the arms, but their arms are far from bare. Fine, arm printing on a mass produced troop-builder is costly, then just give us the blue arms... You could've even made the hips black, applied white printing with a blue spot on the actual "cod piece" if we're going for accuracy. But you didn't, and people aren't fine with it.

6 minutes ago, Mandalorianknight said:

The Senate Commandos battle pack is there, which is perfectly canon since they were in the canon clone wars show, but they're missing the tx-130, which wasn't canon at the point of release.

Looking at all the sets that have come out since the new canon, I've got 2 sets that are "legends", excluding the sets made for the lego shows:

Both Brickset and Bricklink list the 20th anniversary imperial dropship, but since the shadow trooper looks like the battlefront 2015 design, it could go either way.

Geonosis troopers is a really weird one because it's not canon but I can't find legends material of it either, and don't think it was made for one of the lego shows. The same with the sandspeeder, it's based on a kenner prototype that's not even part of the legends canon, and even weirder it's got the helmet rey puts on in TFA in it.

Senate Commandos should be Clone Wars, the figures are identified as such, but I think it's branded Legends due to the build (in which case, so should half the battle packs).

Imperial Dropship is more of a "Lego-created ship" so it counts as Legends. In the instructions, they pretty much say that outright. So, regardless of the figures, the ship makes it legends (especially since the figures themselves aren't specifically from any one source. 2008 Rebel Scout Speeder is another example of this)

Geonosis Troopers is the definition of Red in Lego's ledger... Seriously, they pretty much created their own clones, with useless camouflage, when there actually was Geonosis specific troopers, none of which we've ever received. They could've even just reused the ARF Trooper helmet mold, but they didn't, and I'll never forgive them for it. (I really hated that battle pack )

[jdubbs]

14 minutes ago, ARC2149Nova said:

I think the real problem is contrast. We've had white hips clones before (2007's AT-AP Shock Troopers). Clearly, it was ahead of it's time, and didn't look good then, and it looks no better in hindsight. The old 327th Troopers had white arms, where yellow would've been more accurate, but they still look good (at least to me). But these new figures are clearly missing something. That something is contrast. Also, we've had 4 white hipped Stormies before too. Guess where? Imperial Inspection from 2005. And those are still cool Stormtroopers. Thing is though, they had printing on the hips that transitioned the belt from torso to legs. That was something they could've done with the clones here, but they didn't.

I would definitely agree that printing on the waist and codpiece would have improved the look, and lessened the "shock" (used loosely) of not seeing black there. But I maintain that some of this is down to "I'm used to it this way, so changing it to that way just looks wrong". Not unlike the Vader or Stormtrooper helmet transitions. 5-6 years in, and it seems like most people are used to Vader at this point, and even prefer it to the old one... whereas at the time it was introduced, there were some very vocal detractors.... too big, too cartoonish, looks like he's always looking up, etc.

Change isn't often easy. The good news? It's easily fixable. Buy some black hip pieces on BL, and swap out the white for black if it bugs you. (I may actually do the reverse for mine, lol).

[Brickadeer]

1 hour ago, jdubbs said:

"Beside the point" to you, perhaps.... but I don't think you can unilaterally dismiss accuracy from the discussion, or from other peoples' opinions. You see the black hips as representing the gaps between armor plates; I've always seen it as a black thong. In part because — going back to accuracy — the actual costume cod piece and belt are white, not black.

It's not my intention to dismiss "accuracy" :) I tried to make clear that the concrete meaning of "accuracy" is open for debate, which gives the term a rather inaccurate meaning. Plus, the fact remains that several persons experessed the view that the new clones are "too white" or "too plain". Now, you may be right to say that this is just an incidence of "nostalgia" (and, implicitly, that there is nothing to learn here for Lego), but I don't think that it's correct.

[2maxwell]

The reality is that actual clone trooper models have a lot of black in small amounts to break up the white. Lego figures, until recently, couldn't come close. Even though clones dont wear black thongs, it looked more right from afar because it had the correct white/black balance on the whole. The new clone troopers have leg printing which helps, but they need more black sprinkled throughout to make it work. I don't see it looking right to me until clones start getting arm printing, because that's where a lot of the actual clones get their black coloring. It's part of why, to me at least, the white hips don't look as bad when the arms are colored.

Edited June 19, 2020 by 2maxwell

[ARC2149Nova]

1 hour ago, jdubbs said:

I would definitely agree that printing on the waist and codpiece would have improved the look, and lessened the "shock" (used loosely) of not seeing black there. But I maintain that some of this is down to "I'm used to it this way, so changing it to that way just looks wrong". Not unlike the Vader or Stormtrooper helmet transitions. 5-6 years in, and it seems like most people are used to Vader at this point, and even prefer it to the old one... whereas at the time it was introduced, there were some very vocal detractors.... too big, too cartoonish, looks like he's always looking up, etc.

Yes, but Vader actually is an improvement. The new clones, less so. 2013 introduced a new Phase 2 helmet, people did complain, but the helmet was an improvement. This isn't about a new part being better than the old, it's about the color of existing pieces. One thing would've fixed the plainness issue: Blue/White arms. Simple. If we had just a splotch of blue on the arms, with maybe blue stripes around the cuffs for maximum "accuracy", I'm positive the white hips wouldn't matter. The color of the hips themselves do not matter, but the overall look of the figure suffers due to everything being white (save the obvious stripes). For 501st Troopers, they're a lot closer to Shinies than elite, decorated soldiers.

I don't believe we should be blinded by "Accuracy" in favor of what actually works for the product. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. When you try to fix something no one took issue with, the result is a lot of unhappy people. Even the prints involved have sparked controversy. They may be closer to TCW show, but they end up in between the 2013 figures (which I love) and the movie-style 2014 figures (which I also love). They're too movie for the old cartoon figures, and too cartoon for the movie figures.

Long story short: Lego tried to fix what wasn't broken, people complained, time for lunch. Improvements are a good thing, but this isn't an improvement, in any sense of the word. For accuracy, maybe they should've put more effort into making the Jet Trooper's legs right than giving them white cod pieces.

[jdubbs]

2 minutes ago, 2maxwell said:

I don't see it looking right to me until clones start getting arm printing, because that's where a lot of the actual clones get their black coloring. It's part of why, to me at least, the white hips don't look as bad when the arms are colored.

If you're not a strict purist and don't mind spending some extra dough to customize your minifigs, Firestar makes a wide selection of really nice custom-printed Clone and Stormtrooper arms. Eclipse has started as well, though I don't think they have any for PT figs yet.

Just now, ARC2149Nova said:

Yes, but Vader actually is an improvement. 

Well, that's your opinion (mine too, in this case). But there are those who felt otherwise, and probably some who still do.