Henchmen4Hire

What would you like from a Sci-Fi Racing theme?

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Anyone else got a hankering for some space racing?

What makes a great racing machine? What makes it a great theme?

If I can use pod racing from Star Wars as an example, without getting booed off the planet:

Pod Racers have a, dare I say, iconic design (or notorious, or infamous, whatever word you want to use). They're essentially two massive engines dragging a small chariot at breakneck speeds. An example of their anatomy:

Spoiler

od.jpg

Pod Racer design is all about glorifying those big honking engines. Aerodynamics aren't important as long as the engines are brutally impressive, so it opens them up to radical designs.

What I'm getting at is I think establishing an anatomy for the racing machines is an important first step to take.

================

What are some racing machine archetypes?

(This isn't an exhaustive list, keep posting all the cool designs you can find!)

Hoverbikes
These are compact single-rider machines, maybe using 4-6 stud wide bodies.My biggest concern with this is that maybe official models wouldn't be stable enough for the Lego company's liking, since they would most likely require using tons of small pieces, although Star Wars speeders seem to hold up well to play.

This genre extends to sports like wave-racing. Look up the game "Riptide Renegade" for examples of these futuristic jet skis.

Racing Trucks
These could be 6-8 wide land vehicles, with a minimum of 3 axles. The fun part here is redesigning a clunky industrial machine to look like it goes really fast. I imagine they would consist of the cab the rider sits in, and some exposed engine parts, bolted to a stock chassis (trucks could share a similar frame to build on). Either the cab or the engine could be the center of attention, depending on their configuration.

Flying Wings
I think I saw this idea here before. Essentially an engine with a colorful shroud for aesthetic/aerodynamic purposes, some fins for steering, and attach a pair of handlebars to it somehow. There's no seat, the rider holds on for dear life and is dragged behind the crazy thing.

I think this could extend to gliders, similar idea, basically an engine with whatever cool wing design you can come up with.

Vic Vipers
This can be a chance to build striking, jetfighter-esque spaceship designs that aren't all about blowing up motherships. These have aggressive designs, usually with a closed canopy sitting between two separate wing sections that run the length of the ship.

Muscle GARCs
A specific subset from the wide variety of machines represented in the GARC theme. This is basically what muscle cars would look like if they never had wheels first. They're all about looking cool and being loud, aerodynamics be damned.

Super GARCs
These are supersonic speed machines, the more elegant, streamlined cousins of Muscle GARCs. You can see them in futuristic racing games like Redout. I imagine they would use elements like wedge plates and streamlined panels as veneer, in contrast to a very industrial-looking chassis underneath.

Sky-Fi
World War 1 and 2 era airplanes if they were fitted with sci-fi elements; their designs can vary wildly. Dieselpunk is closely related.

Leggers
There are usually bipedal, but can have more legs. They're basically a pair of mechanical legs that run fast, the driver sits somewhere between them.

=============

Feel free to share your ideas and post MOCs of racing machines! I'll try to come up with something.

Edited by Henchmen4Hire

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Cosmic Motors by Daniel Simon is my touchstone for SF racing. It makes things a little more ground based for racing.

I also love this TV ad

 

I suppose it is not as SPACESHIIP! as most would think of for an SF racing theme. However, near-future fantasy motorsport in fantastic environments is a concept I enjoy exploring. It adds the extra design challenges of integrating wheels into some colourful SF builds, considering how they could need suspension and steering or just look super cool.

Cartoons like Hotwheels Acceleracers, with the "realms" of unique challenges and tricked-out cars or the gravity and reality defying action in the Speed Racer movie. The anime Redline is also an excellent example. 

Wipeout and F-Zero are cool concepts too, for the flying kinds of racer. Those would match up with your flying-wing suggestion. 

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7 hours ago, Henchmen4Hire said:

What are some racing machine archetypes?

Hoverbikes
These could be compact single-rider machines, maybe using 4-6 stud wide bodies. My biggest concern with this is that maybe official models wouldn't be stable enough for the Lego company's liking, since they would most likely require using tons of small pieces.

This genre extends to sports like wave-racing. Look up the game "Riptide Renegade" for examples of these futuristic jet skis.

Racing Trucks
These could be 6-8 wide land vehicles, with a minimum of 3 axles. The fun part here is redesigning a clunky industrial machine to look like it goes really fast. I imagine they would consist of the cab the rider sits in, and some exposed engine parts, bolted to a stock chassis (trucks could share a similar frame to build on). Either the cab or the engine could be the center of attention, depending on their configuration.

Flying Wings
I think I saw this idea here before. Essentially, you build an engine, give it a colorful shroud for aesthetic/aerodynamic purposes, some fins for steering, and attach a pair of handlebars to it somehow. There's no seat, the rider holds on for dear life and is dragged behind the crazy thing.

I think this could extend to gliders, similar idea, basically an engine with whatever cool wing design you can come up with.

Vic Vipers
This can be a chance to build striking spaceship designs that aren't all about blowing up motherships.

=============

Feel free to share your ideas and post MOCs of racing machines! I'll try to come up with something.

How could you forget about GARCs (i.e. Galactic Asteroid Racing Circuit)?!!! Particularly, @Sylon's contributions to the fan genre happen to be some of my all-time favorite Space/Sci-Fi MOCs! :grin:

15560473661_d8844acec3_c.jpg

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14064129117_f02b4a5530_c.jpg

Edited by Digger of Bricks

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9 hours ago, Henchmen4Hire said:

Anyone else got a hankering for some space racing?

What makes a great racing machine? What makes it a great theme?

I'll just add, I've long been a proponent for the idea of a Sci-Fi/Space Racing theme, as it'd be the perfect antidote to Star Wars' seeming stranglehold on in-house Space themes currently. It'd be much more colorful than Star Wars, offering a wide variety of wild spacecraft designs not limited to just two factions, technicolor canopy recolors galore, and a premise centered around sportsmanship rather than good-vs-evil centric conflict! All-in-all, it sounds like a real win-win to me!!! :excited:

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12 hours ago, Digger of Bricks said:

I'll just add, I've long been a proponent for the idea of a Sci-Fi/Space Racing theme, as it'd be the perfect antidote to Star Wars' seeming stranglehold on in-house Space themes currently. It'd be much more colorful than Star Wars, offering a wide variety of wild spacecraft designs not limited to just two factions, technicolor canopy recolors galore, and a premise centered around sportsmanship rather than good-vs-evil centric conflict! All-in-all, it sounds like a real win-win to me!!! :excited:

Absolutely. There's so much they could do, and they could easily tap into their older racing themes from the late 1990s and early 200s that were just bonkers now when you look at them. They could also easily use those old pullback motors to have hovercars with transparent 2x4 discs underneath to make it look like it's gliding with the two wheels hidden inside.

Away from that idea, I'd love some spaceships with closed closed cockpits that look like sleeker Y-wings, etc. The ship Carol/Cheryl flies in Archer:1999 looks cool as well. There's also the possibility of adding stud shooters, rockets, etc. for the playability so racers can knock other vehicles out of the way.

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15 hours ago, Digger of Bricks said:

 technicolor canopy recolors galore :excited:

This 1000 times over.  Colored canopies and windows are why the Popup Party Bus and General Mayhem's ship were awesome sets and the upcoming Systar fighter thing is lame.

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19 hours ago, Digger of Bricks said:

How could you forget about GARCs (i.e. Galactic Asteroid Racing Circuit)

Hoverbikes, Vic Vipers, Pod Racers, Redout, etc., those racing machines have an archetypical/recognizable shape. "GARC" racers don't have an archetypical shape, the designs for them are all over the place.

For creating a new racing theme, I think it's important to first define the "anatomy" of the new racing machines, create a new archetype. Once that's established, we can start to push the limits of their design, while still keeping the designs coherent enough to look like they belong in the same theme.

Of course, that's just my opinion. I wouldn't mind throwing that out the window/airlock and seeing asymmetrical designs, space hogs, 3-seaters, haphazard Mad-Max-in-space style ships, etc. Whatever works.

And yeah, having a colorful, non-murderous sci-fi theme is also a big part of why I'd like to see this theme come to life haha.

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5 hours ago, Henchmen4Hire said:

For creating a new racing theme, I think it's important to first define the "anatomy" of the new racing machines, create a new archetype. Once that's established, we can start to push the limits of their design, while still keeping the designs coherent enough to look like they belong in the same theme.

Of course, that's just my opinion. I wouldn't mind throwing that out the window/airlock and seeing asymmetrical designs, space hogs, 3-seaters, haphazard Mad-Max-in-space style ships, etc. Whatever works.

If there were a basic spaceship shape I'd like to see set as a standard for such, it'd likely be more or less within the vein of the "flying automobile" look that Space Police III went with, just at a smaller scale a little larger than the average Speed Champions build.

5 hours ago, Henchmen4Hire said:

And yeah, having a colorful, non-murderous sci-fi theme is also a big part of why I'd like to see this theme come to life haha.

Plus, much like Speed Champions, individual racecraft builds could also be sold as standalone sets alongside "dual" playsets, giving the line a "Great Vehicles" subtheme much akin to what City and Star Wars would offer. :classic:

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I gotta say GARCs are my favorite personally, especially some of the ones @Digger of Bricks shared! But honestly the best part of a racing theme would be keeping all the different drivers independent , so the designers don't have to use a consistent style across any two ships. I want the designers, especially @Nabii to go crazy with it!

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47 minutes ago, Umbra-Manis said:

But honestly the best part of a racing theme would be keeping all the different drivers independent , so the designers don't have to use a consistent style across any two ships. I want the designers, especially @Nabii to go crazy with it!

EXACTLY!!! :thumbup: :sweet: 

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Despite all the racers and vehicles themselves I always like the Start/Finish Line, the Pitstop area & OcTan MegaCorp Sponsorship deals. ^^

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On 6/21/2019 at 10:41 PM, Henchmen4Hire said:

What are some racing machine archetypes?

While I know they're awfully specific to this particular anime (but so are podracers to Star Wars), perhaps you should add Vanships from The Last Exile to that list of racing machine archetypes. :classic:

0_81_zps0fa702af.jpg~original

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It isnt supposed to be an exhaustive list, I think I'd be here forever if it was. :drunk:

Cool shape, I think there was a Space Police 3 vehicle that was similar (undercover ship?).

Those anime ships fall under Sky-Fi, which is another theme with many wild designs.

I dont mind if the ships in a sci-fi racing theme are all different, like a galactic cannonball run, I'm just trying to think in terms of what would work for mass retail, not just what works for fans like us who love everything sci-fi haha.

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38 minutes ago, Henchmen4Hire said:

Cool shape, I think there was a Space Police 3 vehicle that was similar (undercover ship?).

Perhaps you're thinking of 5983 Undercover Cruiser:shrug_oh_well:

38 minutes ago, Henchmen4Hire said:

Those anime ships fall under Sky-Fi, which is another theme with many wild designs.

Kinda, though they're somewhat more akin to Podracers in purpose rather than the airplanes/warplane of Sky-Fi. Nonetheless, their Art Deco design inspirations could be make them conveniently slottable under the Dieselpunk/Decopunk tendencies of the Sky-Fi genre, so I'm quite happy with their inclusion under such! :thumbup: :blush:

On 6/21/2019 at 10:41 PM, Henchmen4Hire said:

Sky-Fi

World War 1 and 2 era airplanes if they were fitted with sci-fi elements; their designs can vary wildly. Dieselpunk is closely related.

38 minutes ago, Henchmen4Hire said:

I dont mind if the ships in a sci-fi racing theme are all different, like a galactic cannonball run, I'm just trying to think in terms of what would work for mass retail, not just what works for fans like us who love everything sci-fi haha.

If anything, a wide variety of racecraft designs can be reflective of the broad range of personalities their drivers could have, giving kids many different characters they can also attach themselves to if cool racecraft builds weren't enough! :classic:

Edited by Digger of Bricks

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I keep coming back to the ground based racers. Tailenders is another amazingly weird racing anime that hits just the aesthetic I love.

Crazy, wheeled, racing units with just as varied pilots/racers.

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4 hours ago, Peppermint_M said:

I keep coming back to the ground based racers. Tailenders is another amazingly weird racing anime that hits just the aesthetic I love.

Crazy, wheeled, racing units with just as varied pilots/racers.

It'd be cool if such a theme were to be in the spirit of Adventurers, perhaps with premise akin to Verne's Around the World in Eighty Days, except scaled down to instead a transcontinental basis. I mean, imagine a theme made up of racers like these... :drool:

46646415484_2aa7ffcd0d_c.jpg44289515670_2a60594c39_c.jpg24890182877_e1f7915404_c.jpg

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This is a really neat question and one that I find pretty challenging. I think in general, a lot of what I've loved most in LEGO Space themes is when they have a really clear defining concept that is apparent in their appearance, play features, or both:

  • Space Police has had detachable prison pods as a defining feature in EVERY generation. Space Police 3 added a release trigger so that Black Hole Gang members could bust fellow crooks out of containment, but this still built upon that core concept rather than taking its place.
  • By comparison, Blacktron hasn't had quite as obvious a consistent play pattern associated with its sets, but I think that both the interchangeable/transformable ships of Blacktron 1 and the bubble-like escape craft of Blacktron 2 both help to reinforce their sneakiness that allows them to slip away when their attempts at espionage and subterfuge are detected.
  • Spyrius was primarily a spy faction that specialized in robots and flying saucers, but the bigger models in particular generally employed grabber arms and the ability to deploy a hidden rocket, rover, or escape craft.
  • M:Tron was perhaps one of the weaker factions at using its aesthetics and play features to clearly express their central concept (a rescue and transport focused faction, essentially the space equivalent of a towing or roadside assistance company), judging from how many AFOLs came up with their own explanations of M:Tron's role in the galaxy like extraterrestrial mining. That said, there are some sets that make more sense in that light, particularly looking at some of their European set names: 6923 is a rescue helicopter with a crane arm to deploy a tool kit, 6896 is a space tow truck ("wrecker"), 6877 is a search plane, and 6989 is a crane truck.

…Etc.

So that leads me to wonder: what type of play features should a space racing theme have? Some possibilities:

  • A lot of more conventional racing sets over the years have employed features that give the models physical movement, like "slammer" launchers, pull-back or RC motors, etc. But it's harder to figure how you'd make that work for racing vehicles that are intended to fly or hover, since that basically requires "hand of god" style control.
  • Other Racers and Technic sets in the past have provided another potential play feature: a crash function that makes a vehicle break apart, eject its driver or engine, etc. when it gets in a frontal collision with an obstacle. That would work even with "hand of god" style play scenarios, and would be a good reflection of the dangerously high stakes that a lot of space racing stories (including the F:Zero and podracing comparisons made by others above) use to create a sense of tension and urgency.
  • Dick Dastardly or Sebulba style features for sabotaging other racers, similar to the World Racers theme, might be some of the easiest and most flexible features to employ, though they might undermine some people's hopes that a theme like this could be less violent than a theme focused on faction vs. faction combat like so many space themes of the past decade and a half.

I also think that some different sorts of racetrack settings should be employed, much like World Racers and Drome Racers or video games like F:Zero and Star Wars: Episode I Racer. So some sets could have an asteroid field based racetrack, others could have a racetrack on an icy planet or moon, others on an acid planet, etc. Any biome works as long as it pushes things in more intense and otherworldly directions than we'd expect to see in an Earth setting — otherwise it risks feeling like just "Drome Racers/World Racers but in space". If it's a swamp, desert, or city racetrack, it has to feel like an ALIEN swamp, desert, or city.

The box art of the late 90s Slizer and Roboriders sets provides some good, if fantastical, examples of how to make different environments feel more hazardous or extreme than even their most perilous Earthling equivalents. There's no reason the settings couldn't also be given play features suited to them, like eruption features to act as course hazards in a volcanic setting, or asteroids that are attached to a turntable using parts like 49546 to function as moving collision hazards.

Some type of app integration could also potentially be used to introduce the sort of more skill-based or competitive racing play which might be too difficult to effectively create with flying or hovering toy vehicles. That way the more intense type of competitive racing play that motorized or slammer racers offer is still available as part of the experience you get with each set, even if the sets stick to more of the kind of storytelling focused play where kids' creativity, not their skill or luck, dictates the outcome of each race.

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27 minutes ago, Aanchir said:
  • A lot of more conventional racing sets over the years have employed features that give the models physical movement, like "slammer" launchers, pull-back or RC motors, etc. But it's harder to figure how you'd make that work for racing vehicles that are intended to fly or hover, since that basically requires "hand of god" style control.

Magnets, superconductors and liquid nitrogen. Yeah, probably best that LEGO avoid that.

 

It reminds me of this ..

 

Although I don't think that realistic play features are that important. For years kids have played with spaceships, swooshing them around. Way before SW came on the scene.

The app idea is interesting though. I imagine my kids would like to build a ship, photograph it from multiple angles to build a 3D model and then animate it flying across a space scene.

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7 hours ago, Aanchir said:

So some sets could have an asteroid field based racetrack, others could have a racetrack on an icy planet or moon, others on an acid planet, etc. Any biome works as long as it pushes things in more intense and otherworldly directions than we'd expect to see in an Earth setting — otherwise it risks feeling like just "Drome Racers/World Racers but in space". If it's a swamp, desert, or city racetrack, it has to feel like an ALIEN swamp, desert, or city.

Going off that, here's another direction to take-

A sci-fi racing series that showcases how the environment radically affects the design of a racing machine. This way the series could showcase designs from all genres, instead of being limited to one archetype.

Example Sets:

Volcanic Racing
•This could be a set with chunks of brickbuilt volcanic terrain. They could be like the rocky formations sticking up out of the lava (AKA: the carpet haha). Throw in some trans red for lava, etc. Maybe the racers stay aloft by "hopping" from island to island.

•The set can come with 2 or 3 competing racers. Since they're racing over lava, the vehicles could resemble hoverbikes or hoverboats. The vehicles could all have lots of cooling fins, or some kind of visible "refrigeration" device. Maybe some trans-colored "energy shielding" underneath to protect the pilots against the intense heat from below.

•I think it could be a visually striking set, the dark volcanic rocks against trans orange lava, with bursts of color from the racing machines' shields, maybe some hazards, etc.

Ice Racing
•This could be a set with chunks of snowdrifts to use as ramps, breakable pillars, etc. There can be some alien ruins strewn around, like creepy, crumbling brickbuilt faces, maybe a large gate with ominous decoration.

•The brickbuilt terrain can have sections of breakable trans-blue to crash through, to use as alternate routes, set traps, maybe even release some hideous alien beast to ruin the race!

•To be able to bust through the breakable terrain, I think the racing machines could be around the size of City vehicles, so they're sturdy enough to bash through without exploding. Maybe add ram bars to them. Maybe implement a pullback motor or rubberband, to let them go flying off snowdrifts. I mean, assuming they would use wheels. They could use skis or tracks too, maybe hide some wheels under the chassis to let them roll no matter what is used.

---------------

The neat part about the sets is that the chunks of terrain can be arranged however you want (and rebuilt into other formations obviously), so the course variety is endless.

Edited by Henchmen4Hire
Added Ice set idea

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I'd imagine a line of speed champion sized racers (150-200 bricks, I think GARC is a good place to start).  Each racer set can be designed to be modular (more on this in a second).  Use the iPad app to scan your racer (like Hidden Side, where the app will recognize your racer, including the modular parts) and then you can use your racer in the app against computer opponents.  To monetize it further, each racer could start with specific stats, such as acceleration, top speed, brakes, cornering, boost power/nitro, etc., which plays a major role because there are different types of tracks (straight, curvy, etc.) when you play the app's "pro season" mode, where you have to eventually race on all the tracks.  Throw in mod pack sets to take advantage of the modular nature of each racer (different engines, boosters, fins, etc.) and monetize the line even further which the app takes into account when scanning the racer that alters the stats of the racer before each race (ie. to take advantage of each track).  They can also make the app multiplayer so that friends can race each other using their scanned LEGO racers if they sync their devices somehow.

Edited by pombe

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11 hours ago, Aanchir said:

So that leads me to wonder: what type of play features should a space racing theme have? Some possibilities:

  • Dick Dastardly or Sebulba style features for sabotaging other racers, similar to the World Racers theme, might be some of the easiest and most flexible features to employ, though they might undermine some people's hopes that a theme like this could be less violent than a theme focused on faction vs. faction combat like so many space themes of the past decade and a half.

Preferably, I'd just like to see such a theme be no more than LEGO Racers in Space, thereby keeping it simple with no intricate plot or antagonists. With an exclusion of antagonistic characters, there's not as heavy of a need for as many "dual" playsets that other story-driven themes would typically offer; rather, the bulk of the theme's offerings could instead be mostly made up of "Great Vehicle" sets, each one featuring a wildly unique character and their own insane ride to match! :wink:

4 hours ago, pombe said:

I'd imagine a line of speed champion sized racers (150-200 bricks, I think GARC is a good place to start).  Each racer set can be designed to be modular (more on this in a second).  Use the iPad app to scan your racer (like Hidden Side, where the app will recognize your racer, including the modular parts) and then you can use your racer in the app against computer opponents.  To monetize it further, each racer could start with specific stats, such as acceleration, top speed, brakes, cornering, boost power/nitro, etc., which plays a major role because there are different types of tracks (straight, curvy, etc.) when you play the app's "pro season" mode, where you have to eventually race on all the tracks.  Throw in mod pack sets to take advantage of the modular nature of each racer (different engines, boosters, fins, etc.) and monetize the line even further which the app takes into account when scanning the racer that alters the stats of the racer before each race (ie. to take advantage of each track).  They can also make the app multiplayer so that friends can race each other using their scanned LEGO racers if they sync their devices somehow.

Heh, I kinda dig this whole idea, app and all! :thumbup: :smug:

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4 hours ago, pombe said:

monetize monetize monetize

I'm not sure what you mean by that. But if a series costs more or forces me to buy stuff I don't want to support the app aspect then I'll steer clear of the whole series and just keep making MOCs for way cheaper. I like the idea of video game interactivity like that, but not if it makes the series, or my wallet, suffer. The worst case scenario is they give us less parts in the box, to force us to buy the modular parts from blind bags, mod packs, etc.

I like the idea of modular race cars though, being able to easily add/remove accessories like spoilers, ram bar, different nose, raise the suspension, etc.

Edited by Henchmen4Hire

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