42110 - Land Rover Defender

[kbalage]

3 hours ago, Jaromir said:

 I have realigned the u-joints with an axles, it made it little bit better, but still, it takes a while or some distance of pushing before the pistons start to engage. 

That's totally normal, if you count the number of gears involved in the drive train you'll understand why you need to push up to 1m for the pistons to engage ,the Bugatti had the same effect. 

3 hours ago, Dylan M said:

I had this set but never built until now, im thinking if this set is for my parts donor only! Because of so many downfall how come become Lego let slip this negativity that so an acceptable that's become not worth your money ? 

but HE(666) is still proud of this one 

How... 

It is possible to build it without any cracking or resistance, but you need to be very precise, everything needs to be aligned very carefully. I guess during the test builds they always used a new box, so everything was fresh, no dust, no worn gears. If it sits on the shelf collecting dust for a few months then you'll get cracking in higher gears no matter how precise you were during building. 

There are also many potential mistakes during the building process, that's why there are so many complaints. What I'm really missing from this set are some verification steps during building, a lot of problems and mistakes could be avoided. 

[Dylan M]

Good thing we have so many "Technic-ian" outside to help us convince that this is a Good set

that is very helpful for TLG 

they should give you all a reward... 

or maybe you have one already ?

[kbalage]

@Dylan M there's no need to be cynical. I built the set at least 5 times (did you?), and I can tell you by experience that it can be built without having cracking even in the highest gears, and yes I have video evidence about it. I did not write it is a perfect set and it is without flaws, it's actually quite challenging for an average builder and as I said there are many potential traps, and if you don't align everything perfectly then it won't run without cracking. As always things are not black and white, the set is not perfect and it can be definitely improved, but it's not sh$t either.

[Jaromir]

@kbalage

Ohh, I did not realised the vide I have watched was actually your work. Thanks for doing that video, it pointed me few mistakes that I have done during building. Since I am not familiar with that model yet, I will disassemble the whole model and build it again following your instructions probably next week, so I believe it will improve the work of a drivetrain.

[SimonCK]

Jaromir - mine had a lot of friction in the gearbox too, however I noticed that when pushed backwards (whilst in the same gear) it worked far better.  I notice a few others have said the same thing.  If you have this problem then simply reverse the front and rear differentials - basically rotate them 180 degrees so the big cog is on the passenger side of the car (hope that makes sense).

[lee1980]

I am up to build stage where transmission is complete and it feels overall good just a bit stiff in some gears, agree some of the steps are very hard see what is going on! I need to check if used right grey small gear as mentioned on previous page!

its sure one crazy chassis crammed with everything, the HOG steering seems to be very precise which is nice.

[MikeTwo9398]

I have build the Land Rover for the second time after several attempts to make it RC.

With the second build I maybe only switched some gears of my own collection and flipped the differentials 180 degrees and there is no cracking of gears this time. 

So I can confirm @kbalage story that it is possible to build it with cracking gears.

[thekoRngear]

2 hours ago, MikeTwo9398 said:

I have build the Land Rover for the second time after several attempts to make it RC.

With the second build I maybe only switched some gears of my own collection and flipped the differentials 180 degrees and there is no cracking of gears this time. 

So I can confirm @kbalage story that it is possible to build it with cracking gears.

Flipping gears definitely should help move the vehicle forward without cracking. However, it would be helpful if you were able to tell us what exact gears you used or replaced from your collection. And, it does not confirm the kbalage story. What he says is without having to rely on parts of your own i.e., swapping, flipping the differentials it is possible to build the chassis a crack free one which is a very rare case, doable with people who are very smart with building. 
As the post above says this is for sure one crazy chassis crammed with everything but in no way all these proves the set is crap or something. It is one great set that is fun to build and great to look at.

[kbalage]

@thekoRngear what would you like to see exactly to have my "story" proven? :) 

[MikeTwo9398]

When I tried to make it RC I used all kind of gears that are in the set.

 Added the same kind 8, 12, 16, 24 colored tan, black and dark gray gears.

Used a modified servo motor controlled 3steps Gearbox from @Sariel.

Played with the car and was working good on a flat surface, but gearbox was not strong enough driving outside.

Then I rebuild the car and did not know which gears I added and which are original.

I only flipped the differential and was surprised the gears did not crack anymore.

[Magical Duck]

On 5/19/2020 at 3:22 AM, kbalage said:

I guess during the test builds they always used a new box, so everything was fresh, no dust, no worn gears.

Actually I've found that my LEGO gears tend to run with less resistance after they've been put through their paces a few times... 

[thekoRngear]

14 hours ago, kbalage said:

@thekoRngear what would you like to see exactly to have my "story" proven? :) 

You seem to misunderstand my post. He was saying with some additional changes like flipping the rear and front diffs 180 degree, swapping or using some of their own Lego collection it was possible to build a crack-free one. I was saying to prove the kbalage story it does not require those mods/swaps/tweaks/changes etc. With luck and smart building experience some people managed to build it crack-free as it is seen in EB and also in FB groups. And I re-used the word story as a fun, not a token of doubt. The kbalage story sounds 2020. It is cool and smart lol. And it is a true story.

 

Edited June 4, 2020 by thekoRngear

[kbalage]

@thekoRngear sorry, I really misunderstood your reply.

[Vectormatic]

Well, another notch in the "driveline problems" column for me :(

Im nearing the end up step 2, and ive got the driveline finished, but in some gears the damn thing is a reverse pullback racer, while others work fine-ish (still some kracking, but no extreme resistance). Personally i think that while the driveline complexity is extremely impressive, selling a set like this, where a builder will frequently experience issues with the core functions is a bit iffy on lego's side. Us AFOLs can discus this stuff, but someone who isnt familiar with the community will just get frustrated.

I think ill put a halt on construction for now, see if i can get it running smoothly, or just go for the alternative driveline from the pimp my defender project

[thekoRngear]

5 hours ago, vectormatic said:

Well, another notch in the "driveline problems" column for me :(

Im nearing the end up step 2, and ive got the driveline finished, but in some gears the damn thing is a reverse pullback racer, while others work fine-ish (still some kracking, but no extreme resistance). Personally i think that while the driveline complexity is extremely impressive, selling a set like this, where a builder will frequently experience issues with the core functions is a bit iffy on lego's side. Us AFOLs can discus this stuff, but someone who isnt familiar with the community will just get frustrated.

I think ill put a halt on construction for now, see if i can get it running smoothly, or just go for the alternative driveline from the pimp my defender project

I can understand your sadness.

 I have seen the cracking behavior of 42110 changes after 2/3 weeks  in the following way for this particular scenerio: D/Hi/1st-4th gear, forward moving of the vehicle

If you have the Landy built up, ended up having cracking/clicking one. You are usually expected to see:

1. No cracks at all in D/Hi>> 1st and 2nd gear (either backward or forward moving)

2. Occasional and continuous crack from 3rd and 4th respectively (little to less crack in backward moving). Especially in 4th (forward moving), you are expected to see the Landy acts like a reverse pullback racer as you have mentioned. It's like you push the vehicle (forward) a bit, push farther a bit. It then faces incredible amount of forces causing it to behave like a pullback racer.

Now leave the vehicle at your display showcase for 3/4 weeks.

Now, you will see this:

1. Continuous cracks/clicks in D/Hi 1st/2nd gear. I remember just after the build, the engine piston started moving almost immediately it did not even need one metre. It is now worse. Takes 1+ metre to move.

2. Continuous cracks/clicks in D/Hi 3rd/4th gear

This time the difference is despite the clicks there is no pullback stuff going on in none of the gear shifts! For backward moving I found it changes for 2 phenomena. There is no cracks at all in the 1st and 2nd gear when vehicle is moved backward. However, cracks might or might not happen even in the 3rd and 4th gear in backward moving. This is why flipping the diffs to 180 degree seems to be a (not so solid) solution.

My last built was around by the end of 3rd week of March, 2020.  For this last build as soon as I finished building I did not start playing or torturing it (with a secret hope it won't change that much lol). Yet that phenomena could not be avoided (cannot avoid the dust lol). I find after the phenomena the gearbox's cracking behavior does not change.

Edited June 4, 2020 by thekoRngear

[Vectormatic]

@thekoRngear Ive also seen people mention the drivetrain behaving differently once the body is built on, right now ive got a bare chassis with relatively low rigidity, so perhaps the extra bodywork and bracing might solve it, then again, ill ve even more pissed off when it is still broken after finishing it.

 

Ive done some investigating, and from what i can tell, it is the tan gear/LBG gear mesh which sits left of the two U-joints in the middle of the car which skips if i really force it through its resistance. KBalage mentions this mesh in his fix video due to the connector perhaps not holding the tan gear down enough, but for me it is 100% in place. Ive also checked the U-joint allignments on the two driveshafts, and even alligned the U joints with the CV joints on the wheel driveshafts. I think the blockage is in the place of gears right behind the engine, but im not sure just yet, i think some kind of flex in the structure is also a factor, since without load it all rotates relatively freely.

Im really torn here, i dont want to complete the build and find out the thing is still broken, and i dont like the drivetrain design from a technical standpoint either, but scrapping it all and starting over kida sucks too.

[Ngoc Nguyen]

The fix I made for my set is very simple: Don't touch any gear shifter at all. 

[thekoRngear]

1 hour ago, vectormatic said:

@thekoRngear

 KBalage mentions this mesh in his fix video due to the connector perhaps not holding the tan gear down enough, but for me it is 100% in place.

I can confirm that. The connector is in its place yet crap happens. Rather I observed if I play with the vehicle in 3rd and 4th gears (too much resistance) it causes the connector get loose, making things even worse. I think the connector cannot tolerate the force/resistance and hence it gets loose/out of its place.

Edited June 4, 2020 by thekoRngear

[Vectormatic]

yeah, my conclusion right now is that the final bit of drivetrain, the engine and the monstrous amount of gears right in front of it, just have too much friction for the front of the drivetrain to handle it with a high ratio on the gearbox in the middle. Im not sure why there is too much friction, i dont see any obvious errors on my part, but fixing this would require me to tear down and rebuild the front half of the chassis, im definitely not happy about that, my mind keeps wandering off to selling the bloody thing and forgetting about the lambo.

[Pattspatt]

5 hours ago, vectormatic said:

yeah, my conclusion right now is that the final bit of drivetrain, the engine and the monstrous amount of gears right in front of it, just have too much friction for the front of the drivetrain to handle it with a high ratio on the gearbox in the middle. Im not sure why there is too much friction, i dont see any obvious errors on my part, but fixing this would require me to tear down and rebuild the front half of the chassis, im definitely not happy about that, my mind keeps wandering off to selling the bloody thing and forgetting about the lambo.

Yeah, it’s extremely difficult to get it just right. There are so many things to tweak, it’s nearly impossible. The red clutch gears being rougher on one side, the new tan bevel gear mold being rough on both sides and maybe slightly too large, and the list goes on. I’ve found that for some of the connector-based bracing (especially right before the engine), the most reliable way to decrease friction is to actually slightly separate the connectors - which widens the possible number of things to fiddle with even more. (I’ve circled a good place to do this below)

And then keeping all this fiddly detail intact while marrying it to other assemblies and adding all the bracing in later steps.....

My LR is disassembled right now, but when I rebuild, I’m going to try to get this fiddling just right. I didn’t have any cracking on my last build, but there was definitely friction build-up when the fake engine was spinning at its fastest - it would start spinning in rapid spurts. This set could definitely be a lot better optimized for performance/ease of assembly, but if you’re in the mood for a challenge, trying to get this one working exactly perfectly in the stock configuration is a tough one!

[thekoRngear]

11 hours ago, vectormatic said:

my mind keeps wandering off to selling the bloody thing and forgetting about the lambo.

Please dont be such brokenhearted. People like you are the hopeful and brighter ones and the reason noob people like me lurk around the EB forums, buy their first Technic in last 19/20 years and get pumped up about buying a UCS one. Btw The 20t seems seems to affect the 42115 (most prolly) too as I see on the thread.

Edited June 5, 2020 by thekoRngear

[agrof]

What about to rebuild it (or build it in first place) according to @jb70 pimped up version?

https://rebrickable.com/mocs/MOC-31299/jb70/42110-pimp-up-my-land-rover/#bi

With lot of improvements, no u-joints, detachable unibody, and free instructions (HUGE thanks for that!).

[Vectormatic]

@thekoRngear Dont worry too much about it, i bought the set because i expected a porsche/bugatti level complexity build, and wanted to experience that. I dont really care much for the final result, as im very much a supercar guy, not an ofroad guy. Thinking about that yesterday made me realize that if i want a good build, the defender isnt that out of the box, i enjoyed the rear axle and gearbox (the gearchance is excellent), but the front axle and rest of the drivetrain is just poorly designed. I realize i can complete the build, but the rest of the build is just cosmetics, and in the case of a defender, cosmetics i dont care for.

@agrof I considered that, and the driveline looks a lot better, but in the end i probably wont put the defender on display, i already have more pieces for that than i can actually show of. I dont feel like putting more effort and money (for the extra parts) into fixing a fundamentally flawed design.

[anyUser]

I built the chassis a couple of months ago. Already the first gear 'box' (starting at step 33 on page 24) had considerable friction: at the end of this sub-assembly the gears were not turning easily from any input. At that time I tought that it might get better if more stabilizing beams were added in later stages to straigthen out the setup. When chassis was complete (around step 321, p 197). I added the wheels for a test drive. There was a huge lag. You will need to push by about 1 m before cylinders in motor start moving. I didn't have the cracking noise but friction in the gear train was obvious in all settings except for the 'lowest' transmission setting.

54 minutes ago, agrof said:

What about to rebuild it (or build it in first place) according to @jb70 pimped up version?

With lot of improvements, no u-joints, detachable unibody, and free instructions (HUGE thanks for that!).

Therefore I got disappointed and decided to try the (mentioned) improved version from Rebrickable. I swapped all the tan 20t gears for black ones. However I didn't pay attention to the part number (18575 <> 32269). Even then I got some friction that I stopped. There is improvement as more gear settings appear to work OK but not all of them: I guess 50..75%. I have put the chassis aside not knowing if I would like to continue or just add the parts to my stock...

[agrof]

Sad to read that. I like the set though, but not owning it. Reading all the experiences, definitely must be a serious bargain (2nd hand, maybe half the price) once I decide to go for it.