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3 hours ago, vectormatic said:

[...] the set looks good and has less obvious flaws than the porsche or the chiron [...]

Spot on. And it costs some 35% less than the former and 50% less than the latter. So I really don't get what's drawing all the vitriol.

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By the way where is that 7x11 black frame used? I tried to watch the speed build and pictures as closely as possible but no luck. The thing I dislike most is the 3:1 ratio to slow down the fake engine. It should be reversed, both for authenticity and the feel from it.

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11 minutes ago, Ivan_M said:

By the way where is that 7x11 black frame used? I tried to watch the speed build and pictures as closely as possible but no luck. The thing I dislike most is the 3:1 ratio to slow down the fake engine. It should be reversed, both for authenticity and the feel from it.

The frame is used in the roof:

P1366319_EB_ret.jpg

About the speed of the engine - I guess this ratio was selected to show the speed difference between the gears. With a faster base speed it'd be difficult to differentiate between 1st, 2nd etc. gears.

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4 hours ago, suffocation said:

Spot on. And it costs some 35% less than the former and 50% less than the latter. So I really don't get what's drawing all the vitriol.

From the hype, I was expecting that we would finally get a gearbox in a model that had no issues. Claiming it to be the most sophisticated gearbox by Lego and then having it shift the opposite way is kind of a let down and somewhat confusing why they would allow this to happen. Gearbox issues aside, I think the model looks great overall and I will certainly be picking one up on October 1st.

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Just now, Bartybum said:

Can’t you just flip the + - sticker around?

You can, but you also need to flip the hi / lo sticker and that looks kinda stupid upside down :) 

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Nice review, I really like how well the suspension is tuned. About the gearbox having no practical use, of course you are right but then Lego has no practical use to an adult. It's "use" is non practical, it's purely for our pleasure/entertainment (ok, maybe relaxation and therapeutic nature makes it practical) and Technic is about mechanism which does serve some educational use. So a gearbox fits perfectly. 

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Personally i am dissapointed in the suspension setup and the gearbox.

Again, the standard double wishbone setup that is present in all big technic models since the 8880 (and that at least had proper CV joints). Using the small cv joints which severely limit the steering angle. Very sad.

My next problem with lego models is that all the gears are so integrated into the structure of the model, instead of the gearbox being a module. The gearboxes are also, as mentioned before, overly complicated and have too much friction. Lego needs to make more gears that have the integrated dog teeth cup, like the 16z gears they use in this gearbox, so we could make realistic gearboxes with way less gears and friction. How hard can it be?

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28 minutes ago, nicjasno said:

Personally i am dissapointed in the suspension setup and the gearbox.

Again, the standard double wishbone setup that is present in all big technic models since the 8880 (and that at least had proper CV joints). Using the small cv joints which severely limit the steering angle. Very sad.

My next problem with lego models is that all the gears are so integrated into the structure of the model, instead of the gearbox being a module. The gearboxes are also, as mentioned before, overly complicated and have too much friction. Lego needs to make more gears that have the integrated dog teeth cup, like the 16z gears they use in this gearbox, so we could make realistic gearboxes with way less gears and friction. How hard can it be?

Yes Technic really could benefit from having more sizes of gears to use for their gearboxes (this way you could have the much thinner and simpler gearbox to fit within the 5 stud wide tunnel making both the gearbox and the layout more realistic), larger CVs and stronger diffs (so motorisation is possible) and normally I'd be here saying exactly that about this model. But this model came in a year when there has been already a lot of new parts combined with the whole new control+ system so I can't whine too much about that, plus it's a defender which is something I've been hoping for for ages (ok, it's not the classic icon but still). Could it have been better? Yes of course. But That doesn't mean it's bad, something the internet has forgotten. Perhaps it's not the model or the designer that was asked to make a specific model with a specific engine to a specific price point and a specific scale. Perhaps it would have been better to wait till next year and make the defender the 3rd UCS car, so it could be made in a full 1:8 scale with lots of new parts. But is that possible given the defender was released this year?

Besides to do a gearbox really properly accurate, it's not enough to only have the extra sizes of gearbox gears. The whole gearbox system would need to change. Right now gear>drive ring>gear takes up 5 studs of length. So a 5+r gearbox mould be very long, a 7+r would be 20 studs, without any support in the middle of the 20 stud long axles. Really what should have been done is, instead of increasing from 4 studs in length to 5 (in 2015 was it?), it should have decreased to 3 (which is possible BTW). This way a 4 speed gearbox that's totally accurate would be only 6 studs long, thin enough to fit in the 5 wide tunnel between the drivers seats and with very little friction or slack, be much simpler, much more robust and easier to build and so on. That's what we really need but like I say, with so much new stuff released this year I highly doubt that was ever a possibility. It would have to have been done next year I think. 

And to those who think I'm complaining, no I'm really not. I do like this set and I'm definitely going to buy it. Suggesting ways one would make a good thing even better is not the same as complaining.

Edited by allanp

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I received some requests to show the gearbox in details and there were also some potential issues raised in Sariel's review topic about the friction in the drivetrain and the cracking noises. I made a new video to demonstrate my experience, please take a look and let's find out if it is really the way it was supposed to be built :) 

 

 

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Nice video kblage, but I am thinking that one reason shifting up results in the engine pistons running faster is a matter of perception and the fact the model is mechanical. We will push the car at more/less constant speed, regardless of gear shift position. This is totally different from a real car, when in first gear the real vehicle the car is moving slow, as you shift up from 1st to 5th, the car is moving faster and the engine RPM is either the same or lowered. But - in the LEGO model, the car is being pushed by hand at a steady rate, so we need to see something else change - low gear, slow engine, high gear, fast engine. From a mechanical standpoint, the LEGO model is wrong, but from a perception standpoint, the model gives an entirely satisfactory experience - push it in low gear, see something moving slow, push in it in high gear, see something moving fast. If we want to motorize the model, then the gearing would need to be modified.

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Just now, JGW3000 said:

Nice video kblage, but I am thinking that one reason shifting up results in the engine pistons running faster is a matter of perception and the fact the model is mechanical. We will push the car at more/less constant speed, regardless of gear shift position. This is totally different from a real car, when in first gear the real vehicle the car is moving slow, as you shift up from 1st to 5th, the car is moving faster and the engine RPM is either the same or lowered. But - in the LEGO model, the car is being pushed by hand at a steady rate, so we need to see something else change - low gear, slow engine, high gear, fast engine. From a mechanical standpoint, the LEGO model is wrong, but from a perception standpoint, the model gives an entirely satisfactory experience - push it in low gear, see something moving slow, push in it in high gear, see something moving fast. If we want to motorize the model, then the gearing would need to be modified.

i quiet agree with that analyse.

@kbalage maybe you can just reverse the stickers +/-  ->   -/+ ?

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@JGW3000 I agree with the conclusion, also wrote this in my summary at the end. Nevertheless this is a model that mimics real life mechanics, and as Milan said in his interview the point to have a working gearbox in the model where the effect of the gearbox is not really visible is to teach the kids about it, how it is structured, how it works. From this standpoint it would have been preferable to have the sequence and the engine speed adjusted to reality, it'd have more education value.

@steph77 you need to reverse the hi/lo sticker as well and that'd look really odd upside down.

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1 hour ago, kbalage said:

you need to reverse the hi/lo sticker as well and that'd look really odd upside down.

I analyzed the model in depth, and I would say that the high / low sticker is correct in the instruction.

But + / - sticker (the thing with black brick 2x2 round) is not correct. Given gear ratios, + should be on the right, not on the left.

Can anyone confirm ?

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6 minutes ago, Anio said:

I analyzed the model in depth, and I would say that the high / low sticker is correct in the instruction.

But + / - sticker (the thing with black brick 2x2 round) is not correct. Given gear ratios, + should be on the right, not on the left.

I still think it's either both stickers are correct or both are incorrect. If you follow the power coming from the wheels, when it reaches the hi/lo selector in lo gear it is geared down with a 16T/20T gearing. This means the fake engine will run slower in lo mode and it will run faster in hi mode. This is the same behaviour as the gearbox has, lower gears make the engine run slower, higher gears make the engine run faster. 

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I feel like there is quite a bit of friction in the Drivetrain, more that I would be comfortable with. When you pushed the model in your Video, the engine had some delay from the movement of the car, and when it started to move, it spun a bit faster than normal for a short time. I believe this is due to wind up in the Drivetrain, caused by friction. I may be wrong, but it sounds just like my last Transmission prototype&drivetrain, which I scrapped  because of too much friction... 

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Let's consider that when lower gears are engaged (either in the hi/lo gear box or on the main gear box), engine is supposed to move faster (which is only logical btw).

So, hi / low gearbox and sticker :

With this :

42110-40.JPG

On this picture, it is a reduction (16 => 20). So, it is the Hi mode (to drive).

While on this picture :

42110-39.JPG

This is a multiplication (20 => 16), so it is the Low mode (to go over obstacles for example).

 

Then on the main gear box at the rear of the car. Which looks like this :

42110-41.JPG

Starting from the axle with DBG 24t gear, gears are (and look at the olive green part at the same time) :

1st gear : 24:8+ 16:16 + 20:12  => x5

42110-45.JPG

2nd gear : 24:8 + 16:16 + 16:16 + 16:16 + 16:16 => x3

42110-46.JPG

3rd gear : 16:16 + 16:16 + 20:12 => x1.67

42110-47.JPG

4th gear : 16:16 + 16:16 + 16:16 + 16:16 + 16:16 => x1

42110-48.JPG

 

So I'd say that only + / - sticker is wrong.

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@kbalage mentions in his video that the engine runs a bit irregular - I think that's probably unavoidable in a 6-cilinder micro engine as there is more load from the engine when it's pushing up a cylinder, and it's not pushing up cylinders at a constant rate (1, 1, 2, 2 or 1, 2, 1, 2 every 90°, rather than 2 every 120°). It would be interesting to see if we can come up with a fix for that.

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9 minutes ago, pleegwat said:

@kbalage mentions in his video that the engine runs a bit irregular - I think that's probably unavoidable in a 6-cilinder micro engine as there is more load from the engine when it's pushing up a cylinder, and it's not pushing up cylinders at a constant rate (1, 1, 2, 2 or 1, 2, 1, 2 every 90°, rather than 2 every 120°). It would be interesting to see if we can come up with a fix for that.

This should not be a problem in my opinion, the difference of the one piston should not matter, its such a small weight difference...as long as the engine is running smooth.

I still suspect the cause of this issue to be friction in the drivetrain.

Edited by Gray Gear

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