42110 - Land Rover Defender

[Mechbuilds]

Just now, I_Igor said:

You got point there...but since Lego sets are for using indoor I think it is nice set and sometimes model of real thing can look very good despite not liking original

You've got a point there.. The thing i don't like about the lego model is basically just the defender itself.. I don't like new vehicles because they're too round and futuristic looking.. I like oldschool boxy vehicles. 
Lego would make billions with simple small-mid scale RC trial trucks. What kid wouldn't want an RC car that they can modify easily made out of lego. Lego could also sell "modification kits" that can change the vehicles. (wheels and springs ect..)

[Seasider]

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/new-land-rover-defender-2019

worth putting this here. it has the image shown earlier and details on the real car and shots of the low disguise proto

[begin rant] I just read some comments on what an off-roader is ... remember the history of the Land Rover Defender ... it came out of the War ... and then got embraced by the Farming / Rural community in the UK and used as a way of exploring the "undiscovered" parts of Africa, Asia and South America.

a Defender isnt a rock crawler ... its a vehicle equally capable on road and field

And working in the car industry I appreciate how difficult designing the new one has been considering how well appreciated the old one was

[end rant]

[rm8]

5 hours ago, Mechbuilds said:

This is the main problem i have with the concept of making these city "offroaders" 



Live axles just are heaps better. 

That’s not stock at all. Such flexibility is a problem when you have stabilizers. If you need a good on- and off-road capabilities you should choose, or make electric on/off stabilizers like last Wranlger.  If you want to compare tuned suspension travel,  tell that independent is ?  to  trophy truck drivers;) 

Use difflockers when not enough travel...

Update:

stock Defender is just a base for good off-roader as stock UAZ. Both bad quality, both retro looking, but UAZ is way cheaper. 

As mentioned above, if you need a crawler - you don’t need Defender old or new, you don’t need land cruiser, even with solid axles. If you need universal expedition car for active life - new def is good, but I think there is a better choice for the same money.

Old Defender now is a status car, and if someone need a car that will not leave him alone with a broken car far from civilization, they usually choose other cars.

 

[Vectormatic]

56 minutes ago, I_Igor said:

You got point there...but since Lego sets are for using indoor I think it is nice set and sometimes model of real thing can look very good despite not liking original 

Indeed, i am very much not a fan of how the bugatti chiron looks, and i think in the end, the real car is a solution to a problem that doesnt exist (i mean, what usecase is there for a luxury car that does 400+ kmh? what possible real world use does it have that couldnt be adequately covered with a 100K BMW?), but the lego model absolutely blew me away, despite its design defficiencies.

Same goes for SUVs, my low coupe car handles better around the corners, has less wind resistance, weight etc... and i never go off the tarmac anyway, useless blobs of steel which should have been used to build other cars (everytime i see a maserati levante, i cant help but think 'they couldve made a quattroporte instead'), but that doesnt take away from this lego model, as it can have interesting functions and building techniques, and plenty of people will have nostalgic attachment to the LR brand.

[1gor]

52 minutes ago, Mechbuilds said:

You've got a point there.. The thing i don't like about the lego model is basically just the defender itself.. I don't like new vehicles because they're too round and futuristic looking.. I like oldschool boxy vehicles. 
Lego would make billions with simple small-mid scale RC trial trucks. What kid wouldn't want an RC car that they can modify easily made out of lego. Lego could also sell "modification kits" that can change the vehicles. (wheels and springs ect..)

I don't like new cars also for one more reason - they are not reliable...and stuffed with electronics...just example sports car should be light and agile, let's say under a tone with some 200hp, Offroader like old Defender etc...but as it was pointed out people have more and more expectations that are in conflict one with another and we got today hybrid classes etc ... Perhaps this is the reason that I like more machinery than Lego cars, but I admit the way this Defender looks I really like it, on the other hand I was no fan of Chiron ... Defender has all what we need; 4 wheel drive, decent suspension travel, fake engine, winch, robust look and all those nice details characteristic to Offroader.

@vectormatic it looks like we both read our minds 

When Bugatti is in the air, I like more streamlined sports cars from 1930s and 1940s. 

[Didumos69]

Live axle is better for crawling very uneven surfaces and independent suspension is better for offroad racing. Look at the buggy's race classes. In Ultra4 (4wd) live axles are most common and in class one (rwd) independent suspension is more common. Ifs, and also irs, are gaining terrain also in Ultra4 though. This has a lot to do with better parts, such as narrower differentials. And independent suspension gives better ground clearance.

One more thing: Also a LEGO-built 4x4 with independent suspension can be quite capable on uneven surfaces, as long as all wheels can participate in traction, which means enough suspension travel and smooth articulation.

In serious awd SUV land, the competition is more about keeping traction on a slippery surface, or while one wheel is off the ground, which means smart torque balancing etc. This is a great field of exploration too.

 

Edited June 25, 2019 by Didumos69

[Big Adam]

1 hour ago, I_Igor said:

I don't like new cars also for one more reason - they are not reliable...and stuffed with electronics...

Hmmm, 1989 Skoda Estelle or 2019 Skoda Fabia?

1979 Vauxhall Chevette (Shove-it ? ) or 2019 Vauxhall Corsa?

I know which cars I’d rather be driving at 4am in the snow! The same goes for old Defender vs. new Defender!

Edited June 25, 2019 by Big Adam

[1gor]

On 6/25/2019 at 6:34 PM, Big Adam said:

Hmmm, 1989 Skoda Estelle or 2019 Skoda Fabia?

1979 Vauxhall Chevette (Shove-it ? ) or 2019 Vauxhall Corsa?

I know which cars I’d rather be driving at 4am in the snow!

Honestly my car is in the middle, build in  2006, but older are more simple and mostly more reliable. There are only 3 engines (Diesel) of modern date that are really reliable; 5 cylinder 2.4l tdi VW/Audi with bosh injection, 4 cylinder 1.9tdi VW/Audi with bosh injection and Hyundai 1.5 - 3cylinder Diesel from first Matrix.

Where I live winter service is always surprised when it is snowing  so Landy would be handy.

But I think it is enough off topic

Edited June 27, 2019 by I_Igor

[Vectormatic]

@Big Adam Modern cars are more reliable i think, but also a pain to work on. From what i understand replacing the battery on a modern audi requires a trip to the dealer, as the ECU needs to be "paired" with the new battery, totally insane imho... My own car is 2005, so luckily i can still do most stuff myself, and with a simple ODB2 reader one can read and reset faults, but even then there is stuff you simply can no longer do yourself, while a ~1980s car can be maintained entirely with a well stocked home workshop (some powertools, probably a welder)

@Mechbuilds, you like boxy stuff, im willing to bet it wont take long for AFOLs to make old school defender bodies for this set. Especially if the new car (and lego set) still use some old style chassis/body construction. That would probably leave you with an old school landy with padel shifters though :P

@Didumos69 some more advanced suspenion and torque control would be interesting to see in lego form, an LSD is probably waaaaaaay beyond what is doable in plastic for toys, but this defender definitely gives them an opportunity to make a diff-lock

@I_Igor dont forget the alfa/fiat JTD(m) engines! bulletproof stuff

[1gor]

@vectormatic do not get me wrong but I spent some time with my mechanic because we went to primary school together; he was working for years on racing engine and today he services /  repairs cars from Fiat 500, 600, 126 (old models) till Bentley and JTD can make some 400.000km when regularly servicing and reasonable driving...BMW Diesel can make 350-400.000km but the rest up to 250-300.000 from his 25 years experience. Only those 3 mentioned engine (+1.9 SDI by VW) can make over 1.000.000km; ease search under "eine milion kilometer mit Škoda Fabia". About JTD friend of mine was taking care if 166 Alfa more than about his wife and at some 175.000km he had capital engine failure (engine block has exploded)... So experiences are different in different regions and there is one great engine 2.5l Diesel in first Discovery generation capable of some 750.000km like Mercedes Diesel from w115 and w123...

Lego Defender has one thing in common with original - plastic engine 

[JackBloomer5]

What can we expect from the gearbox in terms of pieces? Do you think there will be a wave selector or even the new driving ring extension, hopefully not in yellow?

[1gor]

8 minutes ago, JackBloomer5 said:

What can we expect from the gearbox in terms of pieces? Do you think there will be a wave selector or even the new driving ring extension, hopefully not in yellow?

Since there is transmission with 4 speeds, I do not think about anything else but a bit optimized gearbox from 42056 set

[Vectormatic]

1 hour ago, I_Igor said:

Since there is transmission with 4 speeds, I do not think about anything else but a bit optimized gearbox from 42056 set

i expect a wave-catch in there, with one of those the mechanism to actually move the clutches is much simpler, just a single axle into the wave-catch, compared to various gear meshes to move to seperate selector arms. With a wave catch the entire setup is padles > 90 degree stepper > wavecatch

[1gor]

Just now, vectormatic said:

i expect a wave-catch in there, with one of those the mechanism to actually move the clutches is much simpler, just a single axle into the wave-catch, compared to various gear meshes to move to seperate selector arms. With a wave catch the entire setup is padles > 90 degree stepper > wavecatch

Something's ng like that crossed my mind due to limited space (on Landy, not my mind  ). If I may express myself like that "orange" selectors from Chiron could do the job

[Didumos69]

23 minutes ago, vectormatic said:

i expect a wave-catch in there, with one of those the mechanism to actually move the clutches is much simpler, just a single axle into the wave-catch, compared to various gear meshes to move to seperate selector arms. With a wave catch the entire setup is padles > 90 degree stepper > wavecatch

Yeah, with the new rotary catch a much more simple 4-speed should be possible.

 

1 hour ago, I_Igor said:

Since there is transmission with 4 speeds, I do not think about anything else but a bit optimized gearbox from 42056 set

I hope it will be nothing like the 42056 gearbox because in that gearbox everything is wrong that you can possibly do wrong.

[Mechbuilds]

My point is: 
If there is a road of some kind, use independent suspension. It works better on roads. Be that tarmac or just gravel roads.
If there is no road, just rocks and terrain and bumps. Then use a live axle. 

If you market a vehicle to be an off-road vehicle, then give it an live axle. 
If it's a rough roads vehicle then you can get away with independent suspension. 

Rally cars use mc pherson suspension with great effect.. But they drive on country or gravel roads. Not off-road.

[1gor]

@Didumos69 I was thinking on kind if optimized Porsche gearbox using orange selectors from Chiron, but as I remember correctly, you were the first one to make those great improvements to 42056 gearbox.

[Boulderer]

On 6/25/2019 at 7:56 PM, vectormatic said:

dont forget the alfa/fiat JTD(m) engines! bulletproof stuff

I think that may be the first time ever heard Alfa described as bulletproof 

[Leonardo da Bricki]

I haven't seen photos in this topic, but maybe I missed them somewhere... Either way, The Lego Car Blog has a lovely photo of this set, plus a brief description of it.

https://thelegocarblog.com/2019/06/22/42110-technic-land-rover-defender-set-preview/

I have to say, I'm disappointed in the color... Olive green?! C'mon Lego, really?! I mean, that's literal color*BARF* ... New mudguard is interesting, and so are the new rims and new tires (?). Mostly just want to know about the internals...

Edited June 28, 2019 by Leonardo da Bricki

[1gor]

1 hour ago, Leonardo da Bricki said:

I haven't seen photos in this topic, but maybe I missed them somewhere... Either way, The Lego Car Blog has a lovely photo of this set, plus a brief description of it.

https://thelegocarblog.com/2019/06/22/42110-technic-land-rover-defender-set-preview/

I have to say, I'm disappointed in the color... Olive green?! C'mon Lego, really?! I mean, that's literal color*BARF* ... New mudguard is interesting, and so are the new rims and new tires (?). Mostly just want to know about the internals...

Tires seem to be the same as in 42000 set, but this new color (as I mentioned before) is probably the same was introduced as dark azure and we were sceptical about it untill we saw it in real; at least for me it is nicest color in "50 shades of blue". Internal should be 4 sequential gearbox 4 wheel drive, front and rear independent suspension, Mack style engine, front wheel steering...

[TechnicRCRacer]

I am crazy for new pieces, pieces in new colors, and cars in general. Nothing can explain my total excitement for this set!

[1gor]

1 hour ago, TechnicRCRacer said:

I am crazy for new pieces, pieces in new colors, and cars in general. Nothing can explain my total excitement for this set!

So I wish you that Landy could be available at the end of July and not in October 

[dabo]

8 hours ago, TechnicRCRacer said:

I am crazy for new pieces, pieces in new colors, and cars in general. Nothing can explain my total excitement for this set!

Just opening a new box of lego and checking out each plastic bag is a special feeling. :)

[Cumulonimbus]

Another leaked image of the new Defender (with the engine cover missing obviously) has turned up. It looks like a real vehicle, not just a concept car or mockup. It looks a bit more rounded than I expected based on the Lego version, but it is recognizable.

I found it here (Dutch): https://www.autoweek.nl/autonieuws/artikel/land-rover-defender-weer-in-beeld/

Edited June 28, 2019 by Cumulonimbus

[agrof]

Isn't this the new Dacia Duster? Sorry, this picture makes me associate to that... At least the Lego version looks better, good for us.