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Fx Bricks (Michael Gale) announces Fx Track system

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1 hour ago, zephyr1934 said:

Excellent to see the progress, but...

R72? That is not a radii to lead with. You have one segment that wants R56 so they can go one larger, and you have another segment who are now building to a R104/R120 standard, e.g., the LGMS stipulates,"The minimum radius for curved track on a mainline module shall be R104."

Sure, you can't get injection molded R72 and R88 curves since ME went under, but that is probably because there is a lot less demand for those radii.

I love that improved 9v track is coming and R88 is big enough to get my attention (especially since it would work with R104 if it ever comes), but I'm more interested in R104 and larger. If R72/88 is as far as the project ever goes then I would eventually buy in for R72, but not while there is promise of larger radius... and that's the problem, their milestone of success and my desires are not in line. I don't know, maybe I'd do R72 just to give my 2c to keep the project going.

 

Well, at home R40 looks too small for my trains and R104 is too large, so R72 fits right into what I need and want. R56 and maybe R88 too.

R104 or larger is for events only and how many do we need for that, truth be told ?

LGMS can stipulate whatever they want, lots of different standards out there outside that grouping, both at home and for larger collaboratory train layouts at events ???

Edited by dtomsen

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1 hour ago, zephyr1934 said:

Excellent to see the progress, but...

R72? That is not a radii to lead with. You have one segment that wants R56 so they can go one larger, and you have another segment who are now building to a R104/R120 standard, e.g., the LGMS stipulates,"The minimum radius for curved track on a mainline module shall be R104."

Sure, you can't get injection molded R72 and R88 curves since ME went under, but that is probably because there is a lot less demand for those radii.

I love that improved 9v track is coming and R88 is big enough to get my attention (especially since it would work with R104 if it ever comes), but I'm more interested in R104 and larger. If R72/88 is as far as the project ever goes then I would eventually buy in for R72, but not while there is promise of larger radius... and that's the problem, their milestone of success and my desires are not in line. I don't know, maybe I'd do R72 just to give my 2c to keep the project going

From what I remember R56 wasnt even in his plan until he showed up at BrickWorld with his presentation and Andy said, I sell 4 times as much R56 than any other size. 

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22 hours ago, dtomsen said:

Well, at home R40 looks too small for my trains and R104 is too large, so R72 fits right into what I need and want. R56 and maybe R88 too.

To be clear, I meant nothing offensive to folks who want or need R72, I was just saying that if you took a survey of radii that people wanted right now, I bet the peak would be at R56 and a secondary peak at R104/120. So my concern was that future production rounds are contingent on the success of sales in what I suspect is currently a lower demand radii. I personally would have no use for R56 but I think that should have been one of the first offerings because most folks are used to a life of R40 and just want to go one step further (especially the 9v diehards). Then again, you might be right about R72/88. I remember being totally amazed with R88 when ME first produced it. Coming from R40, R72 is big enough to go "wow!" and small enough to fit on more tables. In the long run I could see R56 and R72 become the most popular radii, again, my thoughts are simply around what I think is the best radius to produce first. Of course the mold has been cast and I am just a spectator. The only thing that I hope might come from my ranting is that either more 9v people decide to support the effort and buy R72 even if it is not in their long term plans, or if low sales of R72 puts the investors on the fence about going further that they recognize other radii are likely to be more popular. (even better, I'm wrong about the popularity of R72, but then my ranting is only for naught, and will just show how poor I am at forecasting)

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I'll buy a circle of whatever radius is put up first (plus a bunch of straight track), just to support the endeavour, and I'll fervently hope for the production of R40.  Due to space constraints I can't use anything larger (which also explains why I build 6-wide only).

Metta,

Ivan

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Honestly I think they are missing the point completely by not prioritizing power pickups.  What is the incentive to buy into the system if you can't actually use it?  Power pickups that plug into the current "battery" motors are a minimum requirement to get people that don't already have 9v trains.  I hope this sells well enough to get to that point.

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On 10/12/2020 at 2:32 AM, Lord Insanity said:

Power pickups that plug into the current "battery" motors are a minimum requirement to get people that don't already have 9v trains.  I hope this sells well enough to get to that point.

Are there any people who don't have 9V trains yet who are considering to switch to 9V? I've already bought several BrickTracks and TrixBrix products that just look too good to limit myself to the few elements that might be available in the Fx Tracks system in the future. I'm worried that Fx Tracks will be too expensive and there is no guarantee that the system will ever be completed while there are many vendors for plastic tracks. I'm sorry to say that, but Fx Bricks is five years late. That ship has sailed. Or as we say in German: Der Zug ist abgefahren. (The train has left.) 

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I still have a bunch of rails but my motor is really tired.

I will consider it mainly if a 9v motor is available ?‍♂️

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That is my whole point.  Power-pickups that plug into Lego's current "battery powered" motor (and run the motor without batteries) are the bare minimum to get new customers.  If you are just starting out with Lego trains and the option is available, you might go for the more expensive "plug it in to the wall" option.  In the long run they want the whole system, track and motors available.  My concern is by not having any way for people without existing 9v motors to take advantage of the track by itself, it won't sell well enough to get that far.

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Even with power pickups, one has to have a full loop of 9v track to make that work. Any plastic track (switches) in there...there are solutions to have a battery carry the train through those areas but those electronics get really complicated really fast and there are solutions no solutions that are off-the-shelf.

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7 hours ago, ALCO said:

Even with power pickups, one has to have a full loop of 9v track to make that work.

That is really not necessary at all. And because of that, it becomes so attractive to support a "new" 9V system - provided though there is a reliable power pickup AND an affordable power feed system for the track AND there are rechargeable battery packs for the devices (smart hubs) controlling the motors!

The thing is that the pickup powers the rechargeable battery whenever it finds metal track. When on plastic track it runs on the battery. You won't notice any difference, as the power from the track is completely decoupled from the power going to the motor. I have a completely mixed plastic/metal track layout here. The moment the engines are on metal track, they are charged. At the same time, they power the motor. It really works very nicely - but so far the elements are not available for all e.g. PUp devices.

This is the idea - a bit old now, celebrated it's 10th anniversary lately - but still in full operation here:

https://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?/forums/topic/45963-some-powerfunctions-insights-the-lego-lipo-rechargeable-battery-and-l/

Best
Thorsten

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On 10/14/2020 at 4:39 PM, legotownlinz said:

I'm sorry to say that, but Fx Bricks is five years late.

I don't know if it is 5 years, I think the demise of PF and rise of PUP is a possible time to strike. At $50 per battery box someone with a fleet of trains might look track power as a potential. Also, with plastic straight track so expensive, Fx might be able to come close in price for metal track.

Still, I agree that it is a risky endeavor. I doubt the backers will get rich of this but I do hope they turn a profit.

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@Toastie great write up and excellent read! Really cool! Thank you for clarifying and showing that your setup is pretty easy to achieve. My point above was that one cannot go out and just buy all the parts already properly configured right off the shelf. They still have to create the bridge rectifier ribbon. I think that should be part of the power system which fix needs. 

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On 10/15/2020 at 12:22 PM, Toastie said:

The thing is that the pickup powers the rechargeable battery whenever it finds metal track. When on plastic track it runs on the battery. You won't notice any difference, as the power from the track is completely decoupled from the power going to the motor.

I'd also prefer this approach for my layout, based on Powered Up components.

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I'll add my 50 cents to the discussion - I run trains only based on rechargeable batteries, but I'm still waiting for the metal tracks. I don't want to run trains from tracks, taking care of sections separations, deal with voltage drop to the outer sides, limited train movements (coupling and decoupling different motor units at the same track), but the LOOK! Just compare RC LEGO-tracks and 9V LEGO-tracks, ballasted or not... they look, they feel real.

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On 10/19/2020 at 10:27 AM, Ashi Valkoinen said:

I don't want to run trains from tracks, taking care of sections separations, deal with voltage drop to the outer sides, limited train movements (coupling and decoupling different motor units at the same track)

And even that would not be an issue, none whatsoever, when you do the pickup -> control unit with rechargeable fed by pickup -> unit powering the engine. You just need to make sure that there is one section of track, where the unit can charge securely. All voltage drops and stuff will just increase the charging time.

Best
Thorsten

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Hopefully it is just a Covid delay. I really hope this project succeeds. I'd love to build my River Canyon layout using Fx 9V track. I was in my dark ages during the PF, PUP switch, so it would be cool to pick back up with 9V.

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7 hours ago, ScotNick said:

I'm sure he's busy getting everything straight, if you take a look at his Flickr photostream there's actually some news to see :wink:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/michaelgale

Woah thanks for that @ScotNick!  It's clear from Flickr that @michaelgale has been working incredibly hard and produced some amazing, pretty high quality looking stuff...  Looking forward to the near future....

By the way have we any idea of the straight track pricing?  

And also will there be a European store (quite often there's not and the transatlantic shipping prices are extortionate, plus tax into the UK means I can end up spending far more than is intended.....

Edited by Vilhelm22

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8 hours ago, ScotNick said:

I'm sure he's busy getting everything straight, if you take a look at his Flickr photostream there's actually some news to see :wink:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/michaelgale

Yah I saw those photos, product looks great! But I heard he was targeting a release in December. It’s now January and we’ve had no announcements or updates here, Flickr, or on the website.

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17 hours ago, Vilhelm22 said:

[...]

And also will there be a European store (quite often there's not and the transatlantic shipping prices are extortionate, plus tax into the UK means I can end up spending far more than is intended.....

If I remember correctly there are plans to have a European reseller - I think that's also in his own interest to better sell tracks in Europe.

16 hours ago, Jeffinslaw said:

Yah I saw those photos, product looks great! But I heard he was targeting a release in December. It’s now January and we’ve had no announcements or updates here, Flickr, or on the website.

Keep in mind that such predictions often rely on factors which change in the course of time. There's a saying that fast things will never produce good things. I'd rather have a high quality product, that needs a bit more time rather than a product that has flaws everywhere (remember ME-Models tracks?). Especially in Covid times there are delays which can't be foreseen. I can understand that you'd like more information, but I for one think Michael has to choose wisely in which things to invest time - and I'd rather see his time invested in the actual product than in announcements about the product.

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8 hours ago, ScotNick said:

Keep in mind that such predictions often rely on factors which change in the course of time. There's a saying that fast things will never produce good things. I'd rather have a high quality product, that needs a bit more time rather than a product that has flaws everywhere (remember ME-Models tracks?). Especially in Covid times there are delays which can't be foreseen. I can understand that you'd like more information, but I for one think Michael has to choose wisely in which things to invest time - and I'd rather see his time invested in the actual product than in announcements about the product.

See I disagree. It takes all of 5-10 minutes to post an update about what is going on. Saying nothing doesn't build confidence in them. I may be alone in this but I prefer when manufacturers explain to us why there are delays. I frequently updated people on the progress of fulfilling our Stud Counter™ kits at bricktraindepot.com. 

-Jeffinslaw

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21 hours ago, Jeffinslaw said:

See I disagree. It takes all of 5-10 minutes to post an update about what is going on. Saying nothing doesn't build confidence in them. I may be alone in this but I prefer when manufacturers explain to us why there are delays. I frequently updated people on the progress of fulfilling our Stud Counter™ kits at bricktraindepot.com. 

Sure, more frequent updates would be nice, but it is a different scenario. I believe you pre-sold the Stud Counter kits while Michael has not sold any of the track yet, so I would have lower expectations of updates from him.

His production cycle is also a lot longer, similar to the BrickTrack switches. My suspicion with the FX Tracks is that he approved preliminary (final?) designs and placed the production orders many months ago, and since then nothing else has changed on the fulfillment side. In fact his situation is probably more difficult than the BrickTrack switches since FX has to deal with multiple suppliers to make the track, the metal, and do the crimping. And then dealing with delays at some unknown point in the supply chain that everyone is blaming on someone else. So really all Michael can say at this point is he is waiting on the shipment and doing all he can to expedite it.

At any rate I'm glad to see all of the wonderful new options that are coming from BT, BTD, FX, and others and my pocketbook is glad it is not all hitting at one time.

 

 

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On 1/2/2021 at 10:53 AM, Jeffinslaw said:

See I disagree. It takes all of 5-10 minutes to post an update about what is going on. Saying nothing doesn't build confidence in them. I may be alone in this but I prefer when manufacturers explain to us why there are delays. I frequently updated people on the progress of fulfilling our Stud Counter™ kits at bricktraindepot.com. 

-Jeffinslaw

 

On 1/3/2021 at 8:33 AM, zephyr1934 said:

Sure, more frequent updates would be nice, but it is a different scenario. I believe you pre-sold the Stud Counter kits while Michael has not sold any of the track yet, so I would have lower expectations of updates from him.

His production cycle is also a lot longer, similar to the BrickTrack switches. My suspicion with the FX Tracks is that he approved preliminary (final?) designs and placed the production orders many months ago, and since then nothing else has changed on the fulfillment side. In fact his situation is probably more difficult than the BrickTrack switches since FX has to deal with multiple suppliers to make the track, the metal, and do the crimping. And then dealing with delays at some unknown point in the supply chain that everyone is blaming on someone else. So really all Michael can say at this point is he is waiting on the shipment and doing all he can to expedite it.

At any rate I'm glad to see all of the wonderful new options that are coming from BT, BTD, FX, and others and my pocketbook is glad it is not all hitting at one time.

 

 

There are definitely valid points to both sides but to Jeff's point, he did say December and its now *not* December and at some point saying "We are having some delays in the supply chain will update again soon" builds the idea that they are, in fact, coming. Currently its all the idea that its coming but nothing outside of a few test samples.

Also knowing about how the process works here, when you have samples in hand, there is already most of the process figured out so why is there no product 18 months later? 

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On 1/1/2021 at 8:50 AM, ScotNick said:

I'm sure he's busy getting everything straight, if you take a look at his Flickr photostream there's actually some news to see :wink:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/michaelgale

Those look great. Though I'd like to keep it 100% lego, I am most certainly in for higher radii curves (that would mean switches too... I see myself being caught up in this). These finally look high quality in comparison to 3D printed tracks. 

Speaking about availability, as much as I anticipate more 9v compatible equipment, especially since the production of aftermarket lego train parts seem more like a very demanding hobby, my frustration tolerance in regards to manufacturers' responsibilities and promises made on online forums is quite high. As long as we're talking about small "entrepreneurs" I think they are going the extra mile to give us what lego doesn't want to give us (they certainly could), so I as a customer am in no position to demand products at a certain deadline. 

It goes without saying that a transparent and frequent communication helps building trust and is just nice to have. 

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