LEGO City 2020 - Rumors, Speculation, and Discussion

[Lyichir]

20 hours ago, danth said:

Pretty clear from that pic that the stripes are stickers. But they're on tile pieces, which makes the stickers even more inexcusable. Those could have easily been the existing zebra-striped printed tile pieces.

The existing zebra print tiles are now three years old and have probably been removed from production, meaning they would have to be reintroduced as a new element. On top of that, as someone else mentioned, their size is different from those in the set. The biggest reason for the stickers is the variety of decorated parts needed—there are at least five unique decorated parts in the set (the 4x4 hood, 4x6 roof, 1x4 tiles, 2x3 tiles, and 1x2x2 brick), and since printing all of them with prints that were unlikely to be reused in other sets was probably not a realistic option, having all of the decorations on a single sticker sheet would be the most efficient way to do so.

[The Brick Boss]

7 minutes ago, Lyichir said:

The existing zebra print tiles are now three years old and have probably been removed from production, meaning they would have to be reintroduced as a new element. On top of that, as someone else mentioned, their size is different from those in the set. The biggest reason for the stickers is the variety of decorated parts needed—there are at least five unique decorated parts in the set (the 4x4 hood, 4x6 roof, 1x4 tiles, 2x3 tiles, and 1x2x2 brick), and since printing all of them with prints that were unlikely to be reused in other sets was probably not a realistic option, having all of the decorations on a single sticker sheet would be the most efficient way to do so.

I agree! Stickers are more efficient. I personally don't think stickers are a big deal as people think. Printed pieces are good, but they can only do but so much. Whether custom or straight from the factory, stickers in my opinion, are much more efficient. I've just received an Xtra sticker sheet as I'm just getting my foot in the door with MOCing. My two planned buildings are a pizzeria, post office and a grocery store. 

Edited December 10, 2019 by pooda

[danth]

Just now, Lyichir said:

The existing zebra print tiles are now three years old and have probably been removed from production, meaning they would have to be reintroduced as a new element. On top of that, as someone else mentioned, their size is different from those in the set. The biggest reason for the stickers is the variety of decorated parts needed—there are at least five unique decorated parts in the set (the 4x4 hood, 4x6 roof, 1x4 tiles, 2x3 tiles, and 1x2x2 brick), and since printing all of them with prints that were unlikely to be reused in other sets was probably not a realistic option, having all of the decorations on a single sticker sheet would be the most efficient way to do so.

1. So what if the pieces are old and had to be re-introduced? Reintroduce the printed tiles, or make new printed tiles. 
2. So what if the old pieces are different sizes? Use 3 2x2's instead of 2 3x2's. It ends up the same way. If that would make a weak connection because one tile would only be connected by two studs, redo the design so that doesn't happen.
3. So what if they had prints and stickers in the same set? It's happened before and will happen again. At least if they printed the most important designs, people like me could ignore the sticker sheet as optional but still have cool printed pieces. 
4. So what if any suggestion I made would cost a fraction of a penny more per set? More people will buy the sets if they have printed pieces in them.  

Also, what's with you only ever posting logistic-based arguments in responses to fans wanting something more to their liking? 

I don't like stickers. I want cool prints. Logistic-based arguments aren't really relevant. You can't "counter" my wanting cool prints with facts about Lego factory protocols. You could respond with how you love stickers or something, but I'm not sure you've ever posted an opinion about anything here ever. I mean...do you even like Legos? 

[Lyichir]

1 hour ago, danth said:

1. So what if the pieces are old and had to be re-introduced? Reintroduce the printed tiles, or make new printed tiles. 
2. So what if the old pieces are different sizes? Use 3 2x2's instead of 2 3x2's. It ends up the same way. If that would make a weak connection because one tile would only be connected by two studs, redo the design so that doesn't happen.
3. So what if they had prints and stickers in the same set? It's happened before and will happen again. At least if they printed the most important designs, people like me could ignore the sticker sheet as optional but still have cool printed pieces. 
4. So what if any suggestion I made would cost a fraction of a penny more per set? More people will buy the sets if they have printed pieces in them.  

Also, what's with you only ever posting logistic-based arguments in responses to fans wanting something more to their liking? 

I don't like stickers. I want cool prints. Logistic-based arguments aren't really relevant. You can't "counter" my wanting cool prints with facts about Lego factory protocols. You could respond with how you love stickers or something, but I'm not sure you've ever posted an opinion about anything here ever. I mean...do you even like Legos? 

Hey, quick question—why the hell are you so hostile all of a sudden?

I adore Lego. My favorite themes tend to be ones that get sorted into the "Action Themes" subforum here on Eurobricks—things like Ninjago, Nexo Knights, Elves, and so forth. I also have loved both The Lego Movie and its sequel, along with their associated sets. Beyond that, I collect the Modular Buildings and the occasional Ideas set. Personally, I'm not as into City, but my dad is, and occasionally help him build the sets he gets or help him come up with mods for them. As such, I try to keep tabs on new releases in the City theme so that I can share them with him or get them for him as gifts.

I also really aspire to being a Lego designer, and as such I've read as much as I can in terms of interviews or comments from designers. It's a lot of that that clues me in to the fact that, hey, a printed part amounts to more logistical costs than people like you give it credit for, and beyond the mere cost valuation is kept in check to keep overall complexity from ballooning out of control like it did when Lego almost went bankrupt over a decade ago. I recognize that sometimes tough decisions have to be made to keep a set under budget, and often that means that given the choice between one new print or one sticker sheet with ten or more new stickers, the latter is going to have a much bigger impact on how the set looks complete.

Ultimately that's why I feel like it's sometimes useful to analyze why decisions about a set were made, rather than just putting together a wishlist of all the things that could be better if the designers had had no limitations whatsoever. Understanding the pros and cons of those decisions gives me a lot more insight into why choices that might initially seem pointless or disappointing were ultimately made, and how those choices might offer unconsidered advantages.

In the case of this set, for instance, the choice between stickers and prints could mean the difference between decorating just the sides of the vehicle (without the vent detail on the side and leaving the hood and roof undecorated) and being able to more fully decorate other parts of the vehicle to match the sides. In that context, the choice to use stickers feels like a worthwhile trade-off to me. Maybe you already considered those facts and came to the opposite conclusion. I was just sharing them because a lot of the time people DON'T consider what kinds of limitations designers are under, or what kinds of trade-offs have to be made, and as such decry them as "cheap" or otherwise irrational instead of putting themselves in the designer's shoes to consider whether, given those same choices, they might ultimately end up making the same decision.

[The Brick Boss]

Just now, Lyichir said:

Ultimately that's why I feel like it's sometimes useful to analyze why decisions about a set were made, rather than just putting together a wishlist of all the things that could be better if the designers had had no limitations whatsoever. Understanding the pros and cons of those decisions gives me a lot more insight into why choices that might initially seem pointless or disappointing were ultimately made, and how those choices might offer unconsidered advantages.

The only place where Lego lovers do those things are here. I don't have any issues with making wishlists unless I'm on this forum. I swear to my parents that you can go to other platforms and you won't see this type of logic. 

[danth]

1 hour ago, Lyichir said:

I was just sharing them because a lot of the time people DON'T consider what kinds of limitations designers are under, or what kinds of trade-offs have to be made, and as such decry them as "cheap" or otherwise irrational instead of putting themselves in the designer's shoes to consider whether, given those same choices, they might ultimately end up making the same decision.

So in other words you are here to represent Lego the company?

I want to talk to Lego fans about fan stuff. Not to hear why we can't have nice things from a Lego social media opinion manager. 

[The Brick Boss]

1 hour ago, danth said:

I want to talk to Lego fans about fan stuff. Not to hear why we can't have nice things from a Lego social media opinion manager. 

You know what, despite our issues in the past, I think we can hang. I'm giving you a follow. That's been my logic the entire time I have been here. 

Edited December 10, 2019 by pooda

[Joebot]

2 hours ago, pooda said:

The only place where Lego lovers do those things are here. I don't have any issues with making wishlists unless I'm on this forum. I swear to my parents that you can go to other platforms and you won't see this type of logic. 

This is true. In my experience, Eurobricks is unique in this regard, both within the Lego hobby, and across any other hobby I've ever participated in. This is a weird place.

I've never seen a hobby message board where I'm so frequently told that I can't have what I want, what I want is wrong, I'm participating in the hobby in the wrong way, and that we should all just shut up and be happy with what our benevolent Corporate Masters at The Lego Company deign to offer us. As I said ... this is a weird place.

 

[jonwil]

The thing you have to remember about LEGO is that regardless of how big the AFOL fan base has grown, LEGO still sells far more product to children (or to parents/grandparents/relatives/etc buying for children). Certainly for mainstream regular retail release sets like City. Its not like most hobbies (e.g., ham radio or model trains or home brewing or tabletop war gaming) where the primary (or even only) audience for the product is adults.

 

[The Brick Boss]

53 minutes ago, Joebot said:

This is true. In my experience, Eurobricks is unique in this regard, both within the Lego hobby, and across any other hobby I've ever participated in. This is a weird place.

I've never seen a hobby message board where I'm so frequently told that I can't have what I want, what I want is wrong, I'm participating in the hobby in the wrong way, and that we should all just shut up and be happy with what our benevolent Corporate Masters at The Lego Company deign to offer us. As I said ... this is a weird place.

Ikr. I think you've said a mouth full of truth there. 

14 minutes ago, jonwil said:

The thing you have to remember about LEGO is that regardless of how big the AFOL fan base has grown, LEGO still sells far more product to children (or to parents/grandparents/relatives/etc buying for children). Certainly for mainstream regular retail release sets like City. Its not like most hobbies (e.g., ham radio or model trains or home brewing or tabletop war gaming) where the primary (or even only) audience for the product is adults.

Its not like we don't take children into consideration when we give our ideas. Matter of fact, we especially go for jobs that children are likely into. Why do you think I'm pushing for the construction, harbor and farm themes to make a return? Why do you think I believe that hospitals should be on a three year rotation system? That's because farmers, builders, sailors and doctors also happen to be popular jobs among children as well.

But I do have to agree with Joebot. Especially on his last statement. 

Edited December 10, 2019 by pooda

[danth]

12 minutes ago, jonwil said:

The thing you have to remember about LEGO is that regardless of how big the AFOL fan base has grown, LEGO still sells far more product to children (or to parents/grandparents/relatives/etc buying for children). Certainly for mainstream regular retail release sets like City. Its not like most hobbies (e.g., ham radio or model trains or home brewing or tabletop war gaming) where the primary (or even only) audience for the product is adults.

 

The thing you have to remember about Eurobricks is it's a community for AFOLs who want to talk about AFOL stuff. 

But honestly the only difference between what I liked as a kid and what I like now is I have more money now...For instance, I hated stickers in Lego sets as a kid. I only had a few though; most Lego pieces were printed back then. I think I had one Tyco set with stickers and I hated it and thought it was cheap. I also had a few old minifigs from some of the first Space and Castle sets and they had stickers ON THE MINIFIGS. I thought wow, I'm sure glad they don't do that anymore!

To people who say that stickers aren't bad, what would you do if they replaced all minifig prints with stickers? 

[The Brick Boss]

5 minutes ago, danth said:

The thing you have to remember about Eurobricks is it's a community for AFOLs who want to talk about AFOL stuff. 

That's right. 

5 minutes ago, danth said:

To people who say that stickers aren't bad, what would you do if they replaced all minifig prints with stickers? 

I think we'll have to agree to disagree on that one because I don't think the sticker issue is as bad as people think. 

Think about it. It takes a lot of time to make printed pieces and it's an expensive process. Therefore, I think stickers are actually helping as we can now receive awesome sets at a cheaper price and at a much faster pace. 

[AMD]

I'm slowly putting a link on youtube called "why can't we be friends" but If I do that, it made me look like an a-hole.

So can't we all just get all along and at least respect to one's perspective before it starts into a flame war.

I for one, have mixed feelings with stickers, but at the same time have mixed feelings with printed ones and both of them are not perfect. Argue with me if you like but all I can respond is ok, you have different taste, that's good. There are people out there have their own enigma but at least they are not the same as you.

[The Brick Boss]

@AMD Bro! I'm being as calm as possible right now. I've got no animosity towards anyone. But I hear what you're saying. 

So without further a do. Topic change! 

Overall, I think 2020 is the best wave we've had since the golden age of 2006 to 2009. 

Edited December 10, 2019 by pooda

[AMD]

Just now, pooda said:

@AMD Bro! I'm being as calm as possible right now. I've got no animosity towards anyone. But I hear what you're saying. 

So without further a do. Topic change! 

Overall, I think 2020 is the best wave we've had since the golden age of 2006 to 2009. 

I know you not one of them but there are people out there that are vulnerable to each other which is why we as a community at least find a way to have a respectable conversation with different topics like this.

Speaking of This Topic.

2020 best wave is a bit of a stretch. Were still in a winter wave and summer wave is not announced yet(unless you're talking about All sets in 2020).

[The Brick Boss]

Just now, AMD said:

Speaking of This Topic.

2020 best wave is a bit of a stretch. Were still in a winter wave and summer wave is not announced yet(unless you're talking about All sets in 2020).

I'm just speaking of Winter 2020 for right now. 

But if the Summer 2020 wave is just as awesome, I'm considering 2020 a great start to a new decade for City. I proposed that City add spring and fall waves to their winter and summer waves. But that would be asking for a bit much. 

[danth]

47 minutes ago, pooda said:

I think we'll have to agree to disagree on that one because I don't think the sticker issue is as bad as people think. 

Think about it. It takes a lot of time to make printed pieces and it's an expensive process. Therefore, I think stickers are actually helping as we can now receive awesome sets at a cheaper price and at a much faster pace. 

 

11 minutes ago, AMD said:

I for one, have mixed feelings with stickers, but at the same time have mixed feelings with printed ones and both of them are not perfect. Argue with me if you like but all I can respond is ok, you have different taste, that's good. There are people out there have their own enigma but at least they are not the same as you.

See, I have no problem with opinions like these. You guys and I might disagree, but at least it's an opinion based disagreement on preference from a fan point of view. 

There are certainly printed pieces that exist where I wish they didn't have the print. And there are surely sets covered in stickers where if only prints were an option they would be more sparsely decorated. I guess my preference is for only prints, even if that means less decorated sets. If that's not your preference, you might be okay with stickers.

Would you guys hate it if a set had maybe one or two prints along with optional stickers?  

[The Brick Boss]

Just now, danth said:

Would you guys hate it if a set had maybe one or two prints along with optional stickers?  

I don't hate you. Otherwise, I wouldn't have given you a follow. I think that system would actually work. Maybe on vehicles, they can do printed pieces and on buildings, they can use stickers. 

Edited December 10, 2019 by pooda

[AMD]

15 minutes ago, danth said:

Would you guys hate it if a set had maybe one or two prints along with optional stickers?

Not at all. There are times some sets acquired both prints and stickers. The best example I can think of is Benny's Spaceship Spaceship Spaceship!!! 

[jonwil]

2 hours ago, pooda said:

Its not like we don't take children into consideration when we give our ideas. Matter of fact, we especially go for jobs that children are likely into. Why do you think I'm pushing for the construction, harbor and farm themes to make a return? Why do you think I believe that hospitals should be on a three year rotation system? That's because farmers, builders, sailors and doctors also happen to be popular jobs among children as well.

Those jobs may be popular with kids but that doesn't mean LEGO sets based on those jobs will be popular with kids (or as popular as other things LEGO could make instead like police sets). LEGO has been making and selling sets that could be loosely classified under the "town" umbrella for more than 60 years and they clearly know what will sell and what wont sell.

[Lyichir]

4 hours ago, danth said:

So in other words you are here to represent Lego the company?

I want to talk to Lego fans about fan stuff. Not to hear why we can't have nice things from a Lego social media opinion manager. 

Hey, guess what? I'm just as much of a fan as you are, despite personally choosing not to express my fandom by complaining all the time. I am going to say this and hope I never have to say this to you again: quit talking down to me and trying to delegitimize my contributions just because I try to be empathetic and understanding of designers and their process.

[The Brick Boss]

@Lyichir We don't want to hear your empathy if it means you have to disappoint us and crush our wishes for City in the process by telling us that our ideas for sets and certain designs won't happen. 

We're making wishes. Not complaining. 

Edited December 21, 2019 by pooda

[meliander]

The first announcements for City made me worry, but literally everything else they showed after the police sets - for me personally was an improvement over the recent years. Both designs and ideas seem fresh (even though I know the Lego is recycling ideas in City from time to time) and very appealing to me. The Bookshop modular is fantastic, too. Everything is awesome for me guys LOL.

Now I even like the fact that Police was not up to par for me this year, my wallet will be slightly less disappointed, and I will continue to hold off on this theme until Lego does something great on that front.

The only thing I will miss in the upcoming year is more City Space sets. Until the very last moment, I hoped that they continue this subtheme at least with one more wave, and maybe even branch out into something futuristic later. The sad reality though is that they don't. Of course, better do some ghostbusters:)

Edited December 11, 2019 by meliander

[Digger of Bricks]

9 hours ago, meliander said:

The only thing I will miss in the upcoming year is more City Space sets. Until the very last moment, I hoped that they continue this subtheme at least with one more wave, and maybe even branch out into something futuristic later. The sad reality though is that they don't.

I know it'll likely not be the same iteration, but I'm pretty certain City will be returning to Space in 2023, maybe with a Lunar Outpost next time around! 

[toopizza13]

i just noticed that they are doing a beach buggy pollybag for city. maybe coast guard is back for 2020, last time was 2017 and they seem to go by rounds of 3 years to re-use ideas.