Ngoc Nguyen

42099 - 4x4 X-treme Off-Roader

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oh yes, differentilas then becomes weakest part, I suppose. Ok, then we can put there just gears :)

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@AVCampos Thanks for that! I'll drop a message and see if we can share some code.. no point me reinventing the wheel! Lots of potential once its in c#, especially if i can get the number of revolutions/rpm back. Makes multi-sequence programming very straight forward. 

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Has anyone tested just how strong the new CV joints are? I'm really hoping they're better than the current U-joints.

Also, is BuWizz planning on making a new version to accommodate for the new cables? Or is there an adapter? I'd love to make full use of the new motors.

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9 minutes ago, PunkTacoNYC said:

Has anyone tested just how strong the new CV joints are? I'm really hoping they're better than the current U-joints.

Also, is BuWizz planning on making a new version to accommodate for the new cables? Or is there an adapter? I'd love to make full use of the new motors.

There  is no need for them to be strong, really. Since you have 5.5 times gearing down hubs after CVs. In 99% times CVs will be low loaded, unless you would like to use CVs in other places than rotating planetary hubs. Comparing to old CVs, YES: new are much storonger and are made from HARD plastic

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Just now, rm8 said:

There  is no need for them to be strong, really. Since you have 5.5 times gearing down hubs after CVs. 

I agree. This is why its great that Lego increased the RPM of the new motors. 

I'm still curious about the limits of the new CV joints. They seem promising!

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Posted (edited)

I'm also curious about the stress limits of not only the new CV joint but also the new wheel hubs. After all the internal sun gear is smaller than a regular 8 tooth gear, but then it's also a solid piece. I wonder, if any of you had yours sent to you by Lego, would you be willing to test these to destruction! Which part breaks first, the wheel hub, the CV joint or the axle driving the CV joint (hopefully the latter), and using an XL motor what gear ratio is needed to do that?

Edited by allanp

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17 minutes ago, allanp said:

I wonder, if any of you had yours sent to you by Lego, would you be willing to test these to destruction!

Sariel X-rayed them for his review, so there isn't much need for that.

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18 minutes ago, AVCampos said:

Sariel X-rayed them for his review, so there isn't much need for that.

I can X-ray myself, but it still possible to break bones :tongue: Anyway, we shouldn't be worrying much about their reliability - even the most powerfull PF XL motors have planetry gears inside that are approximately the same size.

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Does anyone know how I could get ahold of the new planetary hubs and CV joints before getting 42099? They aren't even on bricklink yet and I'd imagine they'd be super expensive, anyway. Is it true that I could email TLG and order them individually this early?

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1 hour ago, PunkTacoNYC said:

Does anyone know how I could get ahold of the new planetary hubs and CV joints before getting 42099? They aren't even on bricklink yet and I'd imagine they'd be super expensive, anyway. Is it true that I could email TLG and order them individually this early?

Unless they’re on the Pick a Brick site then I really doubt it. You’ll have to just wait a few months

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9 hours ago, Bartybum said:

Unless they’re on the Pick a Brick site then I really doubt it. You’ll have to just wait a few months

New parts are never on the Pick a Brick site until after the release of the first set in which they are used. 42099 was released last Thursday and the new parts (CV ball joint, wheel hub with planetary gear, all the new Bright Light Orange parts and Control+ Hub and motors) are not on the TLG Pick a Brick site yet.

I expect the those will be released within a few weeks; this seems to be normal time between release of first set and release of individual parts (same was the case for the new gears in the 42083 Bugatti).

On the other hand I wouldn't be surprised if it takes much longer before the Control+ Hub & motors become available individually. Releasing those separately could hurt 42099/42100 sales.

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On 8/2/2019 at 1:50 PM, kbalage said:

For 42099 the protection kicks in relatively earls because of the gearing. If you swap the gears for the crawler mode then there's no obstacle that would trigger the protection sooner than it does for 9398. Btw if we directly compare when the protection kicks in for PU XL and PF XL then the PU hub shuts the motor down somewhat sooner but the difference is not that significant. You can check it here (comparing that towards the end of the video):

 

How does the servo behave when the motion range is mechanically restricted? Do you (anyone) think that this overshoot can be eliminated with a better controller or is it a restriction of the electronics? Because the servo function this way is clearly much worse than the PF servo.

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41 minutes ago, Lipko said:

How does the servo behave when the motion range is mechanically restricted? Do you (anyone) think that this overshoot can be eliminated with a better controller or is it a restriction of the electronics? Because the servo function this way is clearly much worse than the PF servo.

The Servo behaviour you see in the video is designed for 42099 and it works pretty well there (btw it is also mechanically restricted). We still don't know how the servo function will work once the proper control block for the absolute positioning arrives to the Powered Up app.

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1 hour ago, Enantiomeer said:

On the other hand I wouldn't be surprised if it takes much longer before the Control+ Hub & motors become available individually. Releasing those separately could hurt 42099/42100 sales.

It doesn't really make sense to release the Control+ hardware apart from the sets until control apart from the sets is available as well.

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Also, while it costs US$250 to buy 42099 from Lego, its being sold new, sealed from sellers in Germany and Hong Kong for as low as ~US$177. Is the simple explanation for this price difference exchange rates?

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Posted (edited)

Seeing as it is sold in Spanish S@H for 255.493 USD (229.29 euro and here tax is included already) these sellers have bought the sets from stores that didn't pump up the prices up to the official value so as to sell more cheaper sets instead of fewer but much more expensive ones. Of course that's just an idea, but seeing that many online stores  have it for 15-30% less means that the price that they pay per set when buying in bulk from TLG is even lower. No politics, just sales to sell more of these sets and make a profit.

Edited by syclone

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Posted (edited)

It is question of particular seller, not politics or taxes; they are just excellent excuse to cover sellers greed. I have same situation here; there are always taxes or even dead politicians guilty...until one day one lady (who is from Croatia) but works as taxes consultant in Austria and said to saleswoman that total taxes are a lower in Austria on particular product, but the same product Itself is some 30% more expensive in Croatia than in Austria. Similar thing is with LEGO...

As about 42099 set, I have decided to see if there is a way to make PF elements work with PU. At this moment there is much flexibility in usage of PF elements and PF powered mocs work just fine...then I'll wait for some discount.

Edited by I_Igor

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Posted (edited)

New here and looking up any news items re the 42099. Lots to read too but I thought to add the model is available in Australia for the mid $300AUD.

Edited by Whiskey7
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21 hours ago, Lipko said:

How does the servo behave when the motion range is mechanically restricted? Do you (anyone) think that this overshoot can be eliminated with a better controller or is it a restriction of the electronics?

Servo ir really good, I think, and if i understand Your worries. It is strictly mechanically restricted, it is more like electronically restircted, but, as I understand, range of servo can differ, because system does calibration of that range by first run, and it is possible to recalibrate later from settings. So You can use this also for other car already now with the same application. Also to motors for propulsion needed.

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1 hour ago, Jurss said:

Servo ir really good, I think, and if i understand Your worries. It is strictly mechanically restricted, it is more like electronically restircted, but, as I understand, range of servo can differ, because system does calibration of that range by first run, and it is possible to recalibrate later from settings. So You can use this also for other car already now with the same application. Also to motors for propulsion needed.

The calibration process in the Control+ app only defines the zero position, and the app selects the 90 degrees position for that which falls in the measured range of motion. The range of servo is fixed, you can easily test it if you re-run the calibration and hold the wheels to limit the test range. After the calibration you'll still have the exact same servo range.

This means if you use the Control+ app (and there's nothing else at them moment that could properly use the steering function) the servo range is fixed, and you also need to use the 2 XL motors for propulsion otherwise the app won't even connect to the hub. Btw it is possible to launch the app with all motors connected and later disconnect but I don't think this is a viable option. Better wait until the Powered Up app is updated with proper controls.

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Just now, kbalage said:

This means if you use the Control+ app (and there's nothing else at them moment that could properly use the steering function) the servo range is fixed

I tried BrickController 2 yesterday with the Control+ hub and its motors, and found that if you set the channel type to "ServoMotor" it has a similar behaviour to that of the Control+ app, with the advantage of being able to set the maximum angle.

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2 minutes ago, AVCampos said:

I tried BrickController 2 yesterday with the Control+ hub and its motors, and found that if you set the channel type to "ServoMotor" it has a similar behaviour to that of the Control+ app, with the advantage of being able to set the maximum angle.

That's true. The issue with the current Servo support of BrickController 2 is that it still uses the relative positioning commands for the motor instead of the absolute positioning commands. This means zero will be the position of the motor/wheels where they were when the connection was established with the hub. 

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I was hoping that you could attach a servo directly to a new style pneumatic valve and when to do the calibration, it would know that the mechanical limit is roughly 45 degrees either way, and you would then have 10 smaller steps or something for finer control.

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2 hours ago, allanp said:

It would know that the mechanical limit is roughly 45 degrees either way, and you would then have 10 smaller steps or something for finer control.

I'd put a small bet on the motors being similar to Boost for position and speed. 

You can see how Bricknil controls a Boost motor here: 

https://virantha.github.io/bricknil/_autosummary/bricknil.sensor.motor.html#bricknil.sensor.motor.ExternalMotor

Included is the option to turn to a target angle at a specific speed, e.g. 

await self.motor.set_pos(90, speed=20) # Turn clockwise to 3 o'clock position

Bricknil hasn't announced support for Control+ yet, but the other community-developed software controllers probably all offer similar features.  I figure they'll add Control+ once they've got motors + hubs on hand to work with.

Obvs. this isn't the official TLG app:wink:

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