42099 - 4x4 X-treme Off-Roader

[keymaker]

The question is, does anybody can tell, based on this new images, if there is a new CV joint or cardan piece or not?

[JonathanM]

Does seem to be some new CV joint. Look a bit more like a #1 connector in profile maybe - with the 'ribbed' look, and also a bit thicker.

The new hubs seem pretty much like @Zerobricks proposed - used in 2 orientations as suggested.

No B-model is annoying, but I guess 9398's B-model wasn't very good anyway. And I'm sure that B/C models will be MOC'd :)

[dabo]

Almost fell out of my chair when I saw the price and part count. It looks cool though.

[henning47]

13 hours ago, Zerobricks said:

The hub has internal tilt/accelometer sensors, you can see the graphics showocasing that. Also the new PU motors have step counters in the back of the actual motor, so they can control many RPMs they spin.

Thanks for the info, I guess I missed that! Seems promising, assuming the software makes use of these capabilities and can also handle the Boost distance/color sensor (and others). Given the PoweredUp app, I'm optimistic.

 

I'm not that sure about the model itself (not saying it's not well done, just this type of vehicle does not interest me too much), but with the hardware in this set one can probably build some cool stuff, so I'm looking forward to it!

[Akbalder]

It's disapointing that there is no B model. I guess that it is because the mobile app is specific to one model and they didn't want to develop a second version.

One good surprise are the challenges and achievements. It may give some ideas of tasks to do with the crawler.

Edited June 6, 2019 by Akbalder

[Cardboy]

The last picture says tree slalom I guess an obstacle we can traverse so hopefully we may get more than one or looking at the parts it uses my Corvette is going to have to be sacrificed

Edited June 6, 2019 by Cardboy

[Void_S]

34 minutes ago, JonathanM said:

No B-model is annoying, but I guess 9398's B-model wasn't very good anyway. And I'm sure that B/C models will be MOC'd :)

I would follow the logic that is clearly visible for TLG's models (like for 42005, 42095 and many others):

• One model is a heavy-duty offroad competitor
• The second is a high-speed kind of buggy or trophy-like racer

This particular one, like 9398 as well, have a great potential to be rebuilt into something RWD with soft rear subsection and less reduction ratio.

[Zerobricks]

Okay, here's what I can see from the analysis of the new photos.

The hubs also have a crosshole behind the normal pinhole so you can mount stuff. There is also something red inside them, I assume it's the female CV joint receptacle.

The CV joints seem to allow some axial movement in order to compensate for uneven joint and suspension arm length in the back.

The front suspension pendular axle assembly goes all the way to the back axle, you can see another large tuntable right behind the rear axle.

The battery box is placed in the back and not in the middle as expected.

You can see the new 3x3 biscuit piece first found in Spike used in the rear and probably the front.

The rear hubs are reinforced with 6L links in order to prevent wobbling. Interesting enough, designer used friction 3L pins where suspension arm meets the body, but not where arms are attached to the hubs.

Edited June 6, 2019 by Zerobricks

[Timorzelorzworz]

In box design it looks like the successor to 41999 - looks more something special rather than a regular set. It is strange that the electronic parts are not spotted on the box

[Cwetqo]

On 6/3/2019 at 9:52 PM, Robin_IV said:

I am very interested in this small Control+ box and the big motors. How will they perform? I hope they have enough speed (1500rpm?) or power to build a fast buggy.
To be honest i'm a bit disappointed about the shock absorbers. Could be bigger (9L) imao. But I can see that there has to be space for movement of the axle as well so the choice of the small ones is realistic.
What do we know about the tire and the rims? (I'm not so much in technic.)

I dont think so. At least not on the official way. A customary remote control is analog (i think this is what you mean with other than an smartphone). It sends the signal and the receiver just get it and interpret the commands. It does not check if the signal was complete or not. Bluetooth is a digital data transfer. The reciever checks if the data package is complete and then convert it into control commands. The problem is that the Control+ receiver just accept this digital way. It has no atenna for analog signals. Also Bluetooth has a dedicatet frequency range. What you need is a converter. Maybe someone knows more.

Sorry. My english lacks of elegance. :(

I think it will not be a problem to control it with train remote. I'm currently involved in workgroup with guys in charge of Powered Up system at LEGO and while there was no talk about "future products", there were some hints what might be in the works. 

First, control with train remote. It was said that everything should  be compatible, so it should not be a problem to connect train remote to new hub. Problem is of course that remote has just 2 channels and new hub has 4 outputs. If I understood it correctly, in that case ports A and C will take controls from one channel and ports B and D from second channel. At least that's how it was explained for Boost connectivity. So you connect "drive" motors to A and C and steering to B and you can drive it. :)

Of course, that will give us just "on-off" control of motors (or bang-bang as TLG calls it). We asked about proportional speed control and they said that it might happen. First stage would be to have option to switch hub from bang-bang to train mode (now it swithes automaticly, depending on the type of the motor conneted), which would give us "some" speed control, but not very usable for car driving.

In any case, control will not be analogue, but there are 10 speed levels in the standard, which should be enough for smooth driving. They just need to introduce "proper" control (but it was not confirmed or even hinted in any way, so we will most likely be stuck with app or bang-bang remote).

As you probably know, each Powered Up (or Control+, which is just Technic name for Powered UP) can be programmed similarly as Boost Hub. That would mean that Crawler could be programmed to do some preprogramed actions like driving or even following the line with addition of colour/distance sensor (or you can add it to stop before obstacle). 

[Void_S]

19 minutes ago, Zerobricks said:

The front suspension pendular axle assembly goes all the way to the back axle, you can see another large tuntable right behind the rear axle.

It probably means that the front axle (would be better to call it now as a half-frame?) contains the XL-motor and L-motor together. So, like it was said here, the steering should be more stable and accurate.

23 minutes ago, Zerobricks said:

Interesting enough, designer used friction 3L pins where suspension arm meets the body, but not where arms are attached to the hubs.

This order, I believe, works better as a shock absorber, slowing down the whole suspension assembly movement about the chassis.

[Ngoc Nguyen]

4 hours ago, Maaboo35 said:

This looks like Aurelien designed it - clock the similarities to the Arctic Truck's colour and bodywork. I'd need a closer look at the stickers, since they're usually a giveaway.

Aurelien worked on the 42095. Dark Azure is his new favorite color now.

[JGW3000]

With the hub so high up, wondering if this will have stability issues?

[Didumos69]

The rear suspension will only travel for about 1.7 studs, so most of the travel will come from the pendular front axles. In the front axles the springs will give about 2.5 studs travel. The pendular setup adds to that of course.

Edited June 6, 2019 by Didumos69

[Yevhen]

6 hours ago, Cwetqo said:

That would mean that Crawler could be programmed to do some preprogramed actions like driving or even following the line with addition of colour/distance sensor (or you can add it to stop before obstacle). 

Very interesting! I hope one day we get reincarnation of 8479 barcode truck with the new control hub!

Edited June 6, 2019 by Yevhen

[AVCampos]

Hardware-wise, there's nothing stopping the Control+ hub from being programmable via tethered mobile device, like the WeDo, Boost and PUp hubs. Even if WeDo/Boost/SPIKE sensors aren't (yet) supported, you could still use the accelerometer in a program to detect collisions and act accordingly.

[Srdjan5033]

Well damn, the new controls and motors are placing even small models outside my price range. I guess i will have to resort to bricklink primarily for the new parts 

[Zerobricks]

I have a feeling that hubs will come preassmbled from the factory. They may even use same planetary gear elements as the motors do?

[hjxbf]

I agree with those of you balking at the price. But don't we forget a little too quickly? 9398 was $200 at retail, and people are forking out up to €130 for a BuWizz or SBrick, both which rely on a mobile device to operate.

Granted, TLG would benefit from economy of scale, but I assume the electronics count for at least half the cost.

I would love a proper remote, though...

Edited June 6, 2019 by hjxbf

[dimaks13]

Del.

Edited June 6, 2019 by dimaks13

[Maaboo the Witch]

22 minutes ago, hjxbf said:

I agree with those of you balking at the price. But don't we forget a little too quickly? 9398 was $200 at retail, and people are forking out up to €130 for a BuWizz or SBrick, both which rely on a mobile device to operate.

Granted, TLG would benefit from economy of scale, but I assume the electronics count for at least half the cost.

I would love a proper remote, though...

This is way too expensive for a single out-of-the-box model. It should be a 2-in-1 set at least.

[Zerobricks]

Looking at the front steering geometry which is anti-ackermann, I dont expect a steering angle higher than 25 degrees.

[Akbalder]

Why is there a phone control logo on the picture showing the tilt of the front wheels?

[blondasek]

3 minutes ago, Akbalder said:

Why is there a phone control logo on the picture showing the tilt of the front wheels?

That's something interesting. I have a feeling that the propulsion is not using 2 motors, but actually one XL. Second is used for stearing and the L motor is used for manual tilting of front axle...

[Zerobricks]

Just now, blondasek said:

That's something interesting. I have a feeling that the propulsion is not using 2 motors, but actually one XL. Second is used for stearing and the L motor is used for manual tilting of front axle...

Why would you tilt the axle, it makes zero sense.

The phone control logo is showing tilting of the control unit.