2019 LEGO Trains - 70424

[LEGO Train 12 Volts]

On 5/13/2019 at 11:37 PM, rahziel said:

Yay, more train parts... 

...that's all I can say about that set...

I can only agree

I'd be curious to know what that piece is (it looks like a bar or a rigid hose) near the stairs of the station

[dr_spock]

For long trains we may have to lubricate the new wheel sets before each run like railroaders used to do on those old fashioned journals before roller bearing trucks came along.  From a production point of view, they do look easier and cheaper to manufacture than the previous generation of bogies. 

 

[M_slug357]

@dr_spock True, but that doesn’t necessarily mean TLG will charge less per piece though...

[Aanchir]

23 hours ago, LEGO Train 12 Volts said:

I can only agree

I'd be curious to know what that piece is (it looks like a bar or a rigid hose) near the stairs of the station

You mean this one? https://brickset.com/parts/6167599/lattice-plate-1x4x3 It's used to attach the stairs themselves.

3 hours ago, M_slug357 said:

@dr_spock True, but that doesn’t necessarily mean TLG will charge less per piece though...

I mean, probably not a whole lot in the City theme, but I suspect the electronics, and the large parts like train bases and tracks probably impact the price per piece in those a lot more than the axles do.

What I AM curious about is if this might make it more feasible to release train stuff in 4+ sets, considering how much overlap those have with the target age range for stuff like "Thomas the Tank Engine"… with train sets having demonstrated enduring popularity in both Duplo and City, it seems like that train sets for the age group directly between those would be a no-brainer.

Edited July 21, 2019 by Aanchir

[LEGO Train 12 Volts]

2 hours ago, Aanchir said:

You mean this one? https://brickset.com/parts/6167599/lattice-plate-1x4x3 It's used to attach the stairs

Thank you ...nice solution 

[Digger of Bricks]

I'm not sure if they're new prints, but two leaked minifigure variants of Chip and Dale both in Conductor attire (purportedly from the upcoming D2C Disney World Train) have some really nice torso prints for such!  

On 7/20/2019 at 7:37 PM, Aanchir said:

What I AM curious about is if this might make it more feasible to release train stuff in 4+ sets, considering how much overlap those have with the target age range for stuff like "Thomas the Tank Engine"… with train sets having demonstrated enduring popularity in both Duplo and City, it seems like that train sets for the age group directly between those would be a no-brainer.

A System-based Juniors/4+ Thomas the Tank Engine playtheme that takes after Learning Curve's former Wooden Railway system could have so much potential for Lego nowadays if it weren't for Mattel... 

[technic70s]

lego-hidden-side-70424-geisterzug-022 by Stephen, on Flickr

Not a good idea!!!

Source - https://www.promobricks.de/lego-hidden-side-70424-geisterzug-express-review/83905?fbclid=IwAR0doNhKlNfokkO-UXpwZWt9hXBNtB2guJ-ulmkE8Nv9CFy37roP_CC_8Jo

[andythenorth]

On 7/19/2019 at 7:12 PM, R0Sch said:

People on train groups are not happy about the new wheels and wheel holders.

Hang on, I can improve this 

On 7/19/2019 at 7:12 PM, R0Sch said:

People on train groups are not happy.

And now for my serious point 

Many things are trade-offs. 

On the one hand the new wheel block may increase friction. 

On the other hand, it's now possible to insert a continuous 2-wide plate under the wheel block.   Historically, the metal axle has prevent this. 

For the old blocks, whilst it's always possible to integrate them in a chassis or bogie somehow, the robustness and playability is often limited, and the wheel blocks are prone to breaking loose from MOCs.  The new design makes it much easier to mitigate that.

Trade offs 

Edited August 5, 2019 by andythenorth

[sed6]

According to JangBricks review of the set, the wheels and holder are made from different types of plastic, purportedly to reduce friction. Go to 2:25

 

[dr_spock]

The new plastic wheels seem fine for light weight cars.  Heavier 8 wide AFOL beasts may put more resistance on them as there is more surface area contact.  Any volunteers to test them out?

 

 

[BrickMusher]

3 hours ago, dr_spock said:

Any volunteers to test them out?

 

 

Yeah, for sure. Just send me a bunch and I will test them for you

 

Frankly speaking, I am somewhat suspicious of them. I have refurbished a lot of metal axle wheels with ballbearings to reduce friction, and now TLG is showing up with theese

When ever I had used technic axles with technic bricks and train wheels, I had  abrasive wear and increased friction after some use (e.g. on exhibitions).

 

I guess the new elements are cheaper in production. But will they also be cheaper in price? And, even more important, will they be suitable for AFOLs use?

So I would really like to see a review especially about theese parts!

[Laura Beinbrech]

12 hours ago, BrickMusher said:

Yeah, for sure. Just send me a bunch and I will test them for you

I'd like to second this notion.

Seriously, though, I am planning on buying the Hidden Side train in the next month & will try to see if I can get a standard sized train car built with bogies using these new wheel sets & then have my LUG run it on one of our train displays during an upcoming event to stress test them, and post the results here.

[Tcm0]

I bought the hidden side train (we already had 30% price cuts), did a test and the result is that the hidden side train wheels have much more friction.

 

For anyone interested in the details of how the test was performed:
2 basically identical "trolleys" - one with the hidden side train wheels (purple) and one with the train wheels from a city train (golden).
Both started at about the same position (1 brick height) and had a straight track to roll as far as they could. The hidden side train wheels performed much worse.
I switched the trolleys after one test to show that it's not a problem of the track (if anyone thinks that).

Edited August 7, 2019 by Tcm0

[Giottist]

Ouh, that's as clear as bad. TLG has produced trash to save 5 cents. Happy are those who have bought a heap of axles in the past. Prices will rise.

The ID numbers for the new wheels is 38340, for the wheel holder 38339. Only one really usable new part occuresin this set: The ramp with the number 53834.

[zephyr1934]

18 hours ago, Tcm0 said:

I bought the hidden side train (we already had 30% price cuts), did a test and the result is that the hidden side train wheels have much more friction.

Although I don't like the results, great work, thanks for doing and sharing. The video is quite compelling.

[Tcm0]

8 hours ago, Giottist said:

Ouh, that's as clear as bad. TLG has produced trash to save 5 cents. Happy are those who have bought a heap of axles in the past. Prices will rise.

The ID numbers for the new wheels is 38340, for the wheel holder 38339. Only one really usable new part occuresin this set: The ramp with the number 53834.

The set includes one magnet and a few other train parts (a window, doors etc). I wonder if TLG didn't use magnetic couplers for the whole train to compensate the additional friction.

[supertruper1988]

I really dont like the new wheels but the fact we have had 4 trains in two years is to be applauded. There is some impact this hobby is having because they are doing more trains that I can recall in the previous 10 years. 

I also took a crack at making some instructions available to add powered up to this locomotive. 

You can find them here:

https://bricktraindepot.com/free-downloads

[Tcm0]

4 hours ago, supertruper1988 said:

I really dont like the new wheels but the fact we have had 4 trains in two years is to be applauded. There is some impact this hobby is having because they are doing more trains that I can recall in the previous 10 years. 

I also took a crack at making some instructions available to add powered up to this locomotive. 

You can find them here:

https://bricktraindepot.com/free-downloads

Yep. And there is another train coming according to rumors. That makes 5 trains in 2 years (and a few months). BTW the download link doesn't work; it links back to the download page.

/edit
The link to the instructions is https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5c548dfdebfc7f726814ea8e/t/5d4bc9ad5ad6d10001f0760a/1565247943894/BTD+70424+Powered+Up+Upgrade.pdf

6 hours ago, zephyr1934 said:

Although I don't like the results, great work, thanks for doing and sharing. The video is quite compelling.

You're welcome.

BTW I did another test and put 2 metal axles on top of the hidden side trolley to see how big the impact of the additional weight of the metal is. The hidden side wheels performed a bit better (maybe 10 studs or something like that) but the difference is still there and very clearly visible.

Edited August 8, 2019 by Tcm0

[andythenorth]

The video is compelling: the performance of the new wheelset is really quite poor eh? 

[Roadmonkeytj]

Will the new wheelset make it easier to install turned metal wheels that could have a pick up added to use for 9v?

[Giottist]

On 8/9/2019 at 6:40 PM, Roadmonkeytj said:

Will the new wheelset make it easier to install turned metal wheels that could have a pick up added to use for 9v?

What a brilliant idea! What about turned wheels with an integrated ball bearing on an axle cliped into the holder 38339? Let go to the drawing board ...

[Toastie]

Oh my.

Who ever came up with that kind of wheel set (it is not a "set" it is one wheel - and two of these is not a set. It remains two), must be into cars. I cannot imagine anything else. Discarding the axle on a >not< plain surface is insane. A car with individual suspension and this and that (visit the Technic Forum ... they do magic in this regard) is perfectly matching this kind of wheel attachment. But a train running on clearly defined track geometries: Go away. Regardless of how many ball bearings you use: Their >mounting< will define performance. And surely increase friction. As they do in the video. It is not the bearing, it is the angle.

It is always instructive to look at what the world does. Do the use axles on trains? Yes. Is there a train that does not run on axle connected wheels? I believe not, but it may be. I'd call that crazy due to the clearly defined track width not allowing much tolerance, if at all.

So - TLG is either above friction rules - or they have no clue - or they don't care. Nifty pick ups or not. As far as I am concerned, this is crazy.

Best
Thorsten

[ALCO]

4 hours ago, Toastie said:

So - TLG is neither above friction rules - or they have no clue - or they don't care. Nifty pick ups or not. As far as I am concerned, this is crazy.

Best
Thorsten

I think this is the case. They don't care. Or they have realized that it's cheaper for them to make all plastic parts and the metal axles are more expensive to make. Also, we have a cheaper source for axles in BrickTracks. In addition, we have found ball bearings so they may have a mind to reinforce the toy element of their sets with these new parts. I'd like to hear what the LUG ambassadors have to report what TLG has said about these parts. Let's hope they quickly realized these are a dud and keep producing the wheels and axles used in the City trains, Winter Village Holiday Train and the Hogwarts Express.

Any LUG ambassadors out there that can chime in on these new train wheels?

[Roadmonkeytj]

4 hours ago, Toastie said:

So - TLG is either above friction rules - or they have no clue - or they don't care. Nifty pick ups or not. As far as I am concerned, this is crazy.

Or they are reinforcing the fact that they are a TOY company ...  But I agree with you on the bearing mounting... The split setup is not ideal at all (even with uneven track)

[Daedalus304]

45 minutes ago, Roadmonkeytj said:

Or they are reinforcing the fact that they are a TOY company ...  But I agree with you on the bearing mounting... The split setup is not ideal at all (even with uneven track)

Toy or not, switching to something with massively worse objective performance feels like a real undercut to that whole "Only the best is good enough" motto that used to drive their quality.

I'd like to give them the benefit of the doubt and assume there's some safety issue or something this is meant to address, but...

Between the gutting of the versatility that came with the switch to Powered Up from PF and this, it's mostly seeming like LEGO has just decided to become incredibly out of touch with the AFOL scene. I say 'decided' because given how much work used to go into it, with reaching out to the AFOL community for workshops etc, they clearly made a decision to do things without that part of the old process. 

That is, of course, their own perogative - but it does put us in an odd spot, doesn't it? When people at train shows ask me how to get started, now I not only have to tell them to look for the old electronic system, I also have to tell them the wheelsets in the base sets are garbage too, hm? That's going to be a real tough sell. I'm not going to recommend to anybody something I don't *want* to buy.