Ngoc Nguyen

42100 Liebherr R9800 Excavator

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2 hours ago, J_C said:

I have a smartphone, but we as a family try to limit screen time for children. Lego is one of the non-screen activity

I assume you’re doing it under the guise of trying to get your kids to play with physical things instead of spending their time on the internet.

If that’s the case then sorry but what? The screen is literally just a medium for controlling the physical set. It’s no different than a Lego remote, only the buttons are projected down to 2D.

I think it’s incredibly unfair to enforce a blanket rule over a remote controller solely because it has a screen, never mind that they’re not even gonna be looking at the screen in the first place, but the model.

Edited by Bartybum

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Actually I don't know why there is is so much hate about the controls via smartphone. Actually I would be mad, if they include a special controller for 60+ €/$ just for this set. Then everybody would say: "Hey why no control via my smartphone???" A simple app is so much better to calibrate and way more universal than a monstrous control for 7 functions. And as already said: Nowadays, everybody has a smartphone or could buy a used one for 50 € if really needed.

It all depends how well the app is programmed, that is my only concern.

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33 minutes ago, Bartybum said:

I assume you’re doing it under the guise of trying to get your kids to play with physical things instead of spending their time on the internet.

If that’s the case then sorry but what?? That’s not how any of this works - the screen is literally just a medium for controlling the physical set. It’s no different than a physical remote, only the buttons are projected down to 2D. You can’t arbitrarily count using a phone as a controller for a physical thing as screen time, because it just isn’t - they’re looking at the excavator driving around anyway, not at the screen.

yes (internet) and no. it is not a big deal really, but it is another argument on the kids side in "dad, we need an iphone too" discussion.  :look:

Edited by J_C

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Just now, J_C said:

yes (internet) and no. it is not a big deal really, but it is another argument on the kids side in "dad, we need an iphone too" discussion. the discussion  :look:

I assume your kids aren’t yet teens. If that’s the case then just say no to their pleas for phones. Explain that it’s not an argument for them to get phones because the phone isn’t even being used as a phone.

If you’ve raised your kids to be honest I’d even argue that it might be worth letting them show their honesty by getting a cheap smartphone solely to control it and having them promise only to use it for that purpose. If they break the promise, they lose the privilege for X amount of time. Additionally you could even give them further incentives to keep their word. Just throwing around some ideas.

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You could put an app on the smart phone that causes the excavator to pick up the phone up and crush it !! 

 

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Just now, Bartybum said:

I assume your kids aren’t yet teens. If that’s the case then just say no to their pleas for phones. Explain that it’s not an argument for them to get phones because the phone isn’t even being used as a phone.

If you’ve raised your kids to be honest I’d even argue that it might be worth letting them show their honesty by getting a cheap smartphone solely to control it and having them promise only to use it for that purpose. If they break the promise, they lose the privilege for X amount of time. Additionally you could even give them further incentives to keep their word. Just throwing around some ideas.

I know, I am not beginner with children.

Trust and responsibility is always good parenting strategy. "you can use my iphone, but I need it for work, so treat it accordingly and you are not allowed to do anything else with it, just lego app, otherwise there will be no more leibherr" "yes, daddy, I get it"

As I said before, not a big deal really :wink:

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I am actually grateful for smartphone control. My main concern is, I have a shoe box full of 20 year old computer games that are unusable, some of them are still fun to play, unfortunately unless you have an unsupported antique computer, they are bricked. I would hate to see that happen to a 20 year old LEGO set as I am sure the smartphone as we know it will not be around in twenty years. Of course for me this is a non issue as it is highly unlikely that I will be around either. Plenty of people still find enjoyment though with 20+ year old LEGO sets. 

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As a huge fan of mining machines this set is awesome, I have the 1:50 diecast model of the excavator version of this and that cost me just over $1000NZD, also recently got the 1:48 diecast Caterpillar 6090FS which would be the main competitor of this machine in real life and it cost me $1600NZD:wacko:. Not a fan of the smartphone control though, hopefully it will have enough room in it to change it to remote control somehow.

Loving the new bucket for it, 2 concerns I have is it seems to good to be true to operate like it did in the video, there will be something that wont work right or it will suffer the same issues 8043 had but for myself even if it does It will still look good on display which is how it will probably spend its life anyway, and again I wish for a set like this and other flagship sets they would do printed label pieces instead of stickers, they will only last a year and start to crack.

As for the price, luckily Toy World in NZ let us layby stuff and pay it off so no issues there.

Edited by technicfan

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Power functions as a system was added to and expanded over a decade. I'm sure control+ will be added to over the years. I hope one of the things added will be a separately available controller. It seems rediculous to have to give children access to a smart phone (with all its internet and social media access and all the online dangers that come with that, I'm really becoming more unhappy about it the more I think about it to be honest) and Google/apple accounts and contract/pay as you go bills just to play with Lego. I know they could borrow their parents phones but isn't it kind of crap for a parent to have to remove their child's controller every time they get a phone call or wants to use their own phone for any other reason at all? But I do get the other side of the argument, that since many people do have phones, adding such a controller seems like an unnecessary expense, which is why I'm advocating for a separately available controller. After all, power functions had a lipo battery available, I'm not aware of that being included in a set but it was very much appreciated as its own separately available accessory. 

Edited by allanp

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So most of you complaining for Lego for using Smartphones for control?bcoz all your concerns is about your little child which might be expose to internet world while using your smartphone..? 

Just a reminder... All Technic Flagship is recommended for 16+ years old ... 

just a friendly reminder only...😊😊

 

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Also because we need a third part thing to control our model). PFS is stable in term of technology (except if industry stop producing AA/AAA batteries...)

With PU, its "pure Lego" anymore. but after all, Mindstorms use PC/third party since 20 years...

Edited by Timoonn

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This set is the first set since 2015 to use DBG tracks as caterpillar tracks. I thought that DBG tracks have been eliminated from Technic.

(The BWE has DBG tracks too, but they are used in the conveyor. )

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On 2/1/2019 at 7:50 AM, Dylan M said:
On 1/30/2019 at 5:58 PM, TeamThrifty said:

...The joy and excitement i felt as a 10 yr old hasn't left me, so i see this set and think Awesome!!!

But for me, its excitement that is the overriding emotion... 

...that's the Spirit I Like most...

 keep it up🤗🤗

..For me it is that simple though! I think there's a lot of over analysis going on about a potentially obsolete phone control system.. stuff goes obsolete all the time, even faster where tech is involved (what are the chances of all the propriety SatNav's etc fitted to modern cars still working in 10 years? What about battery powered cars?! They'll be obsolete soooo fast once hydrogen fuel cells are fully sorted.. but people are buying them..)

Sometime the simple joy of shiny lego seems to get lost!

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1 hour ago, Dylan M said:

So most of you complaining for Lego for using Smartphones for control?bcoz all your concerns is about your little child which might be expose to internet world while using your smartphone..? 

Just a reminder... All Technic Flagship is recommended for 16+ years old ... 

just a friendly reminder only...😊😊

 

Lol right? It’s just senseless nitpicking.

2 hours ago, allanp said:

It seems rediculous to have to give children access to a smart phone (with all its internet and social media access and all the online dangers that come with that, I'm really becoming more unhappy about it the more I think about it to be honest)

Yeah look that’s blatant fear-mongering. The dangers of spooky social media and the evil internet could not be any more irrelevant. It’s a 16+ set, so any teen that has it already likely has a smartphone. It’s also a copiously expensive luxury set, so any <16yr old kid that is gonna get this set also likely has a smartphone to begin with.

Kids aren’t suddenly gonna be corrupted when they touch the controller. There’s nothing wrong with the internet if someone’s a good parent and teaches their child to use it appropriately, and it’s not TLG’s responsibility to cop the slack for bad parenting.

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2 hours ago, Dylan M said:

 

Just a reminder... All Technic Flagship is recommended for 16+ years old ... 

just a friendly reminder only...😊😊

 

Says to 12 year old nephew, sorry you have to be 16 to play with this. 

49 minutes ago, TeamThrifty said:

 

Sometime the simple joy of shiny lego seems to get lost!

Albeit a $500 joy. 

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1 hour ago, Johnny1360 said:

Albeit a $500 joy. 

Yep... and, not sure what your point is.

I understand that everyone has a price threshold, and its different for different things, so for some, this is too expensive for lego and i wouldn't argue with that as its a personal choice. Its subjective.

As mentioned previously, everyone on here will have more expensive toys. If its not a necessity, its a toy, so my motorbikes are toys (i've always thought of them as that), and they're many thousands of pounds to buy and many thousands of pounds to run and maintain..... but still a simple joy, irrelevant of cost.

Cost vs pleasure isn't a comparable metric... thats an implied disparity to 'prove' something... just not sure what its proving?

 

1 hour ago, Bartybum said:

and it’s not TLG’s responsibility to cop the slack for bad parenting

100% agreement. You make a lot good points in that post.. scare mongering and pointless nitpicking not the least of them.

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2 hours ago, Bartybum said:

Lol right? It’s just senseless nitpicking.

Yeah look that’s blatant fear-mongering. The dangers of spooky social media and the evil internet could not be any more irrelevant. It’s a 16+ set, so any teen that has it already likely has a smartphone. It’s also a copiously expensive luxury set, so any <16yr old kid that is gonna get this set also likely has a smartphone to begin with.

Kids aren’t suddenly gonna be corrupted when they touch the controller. There’s nothing wrong with the internet if someone’s a good parent and teaches their child to use it appropriately, and it’s not TLG’s responsibility to cop the slack for bad parenting.

If control+ is only ever going to be in 16+ sets then that's fine. But if control+ is included in a set aimed at 10 or below I would hope that by that time there would be a non smart phone alternative accessory that could be purchased separately, like the lipo battery. I think that would solve all issues I have with it.

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5 hours ago, allanp said:

Google/apple accounts and contract/pay as you go bills just to play with Lego.

It was already mentioned repeatedly in this thread that there is no ongoing cost involved with using the phone for remote control function. If you are willing to spend extra money on single purpose proprietary controller you can as well spend the same money or less on cheap smart phone or tablet with more eventual use. And if you need / want to prevent kids from using the device for "unaproved" purposes simply use the guest / kid mode on the device and disable internet access, installing of the apps etc. If there is an ergonomy concern in regards of using the touchscreen or looking at screen in general a plethora of various physical controllers can be attached to the phone (both BT as well as USB) to deal with that particular issue too.

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5 hours ago, allanp said:

I hope one of the things added will be a separately available controller.

100% agree. Even though I think it's nice to have the possibility to use a smartphone or similar for control, I prefer the more physical hands on controls. High on my wish list, is that LEGO release a modular system for making your own brick built control. How such a system should be easily configurable is another thing...

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As far as I can see, smartphone control has the following benefits:

  • Lower price. Not having a remote makes all relevant sets cheaper. Also, no backlog of unused remotes builds up in the houses of frequent set-buyers. :)
  • Programmability/customizability. If TLC opens up the data protocol the receiver uses, then this opens the door for programming-minded people to create new possibilities. The usual Lego remote only has 2 front-aft controls, so any use other than that needed some mechanical solution, making the remote unwieldily big. If it will be possible to program an app that generates the required signals, then anything is possible. It would enable the system to merge with Mindstorms into a single system, provided the sensors can be used to work with the same data format.

and the following disadvantages:

  • Requires a smartphone. Phone-less people will have plenty of choice left from the other sets, but they need to know so that they don't make a $400 purchase they can't fully use.
  • Possible compatibility issues - will the app work on all devices?
  • Future running problems - will the app continue to work over the years, and/or be maintained in the future?

I don't see the whole issue with "children having internet access when controlling the thing". First of all, this set is probably not child-targeted, so whatever (however, the SUV may be). Secondly, there are plenty of ways to disable internet access and thirdly, those aren't even needed if the child is a responsible person.

Having a separately available controller set, as @allanp suggests, would give both options. However, I personally think there are too few smartphone-less people wanting to buy a $400 set, to make developing such a remote a financially viable option.

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49 minutes ago, Erik Leppen said:

As far as I can see, smartphone control has the following benefits:

  •  
  • Programmability/customizability. If TLC opens up the data protocol the receiver uses, then this opens the door for programming-minded people to create new possibilities. The usual Lego remote only has 2 front-aft controls, so any use other than that needed some mechanical solution, making the remote unwieldily big. If it will be possible to program an app that generates the required signals, then anything is possible. It would enable the system to merge with Mindstorms into a single system, provided the sensors can be used to work with the same data format.

They already have. :) https://lego.github.io/lego-ble-wireless-protocol-docs/

Check the train forum, people have created many apps. I personally, have been working on this: https://github.com/nathankellenicki/node-poweredup

I’m looking forward to getting my hands on the Liebherr for this precise reason!

Edited by Mr Hobbles

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On 1/31/2019 at 11:20 AM, Ngoc Nguyen said:

What works today may not even work today.

Sound like my life in IT.   :laugh:

On 1/31/2019 at 12:53 PM, TeamThrifty said:

Thats how we keep ourselves 'indispensable' !!

As a developer, i use that other saying, 'PICNIC'... (problem in chair, not in computer) :roflmao:

I have not heard of PICNIC before.   The one I use is I/O error.  (Idiotic Operator)   :classic:

On 1/31/2019 at 4:20 PM, I_Igor said:

And what about people with damaged nerves on their fingers who after all enjoy playing with LEGO sets?

Tapping on glass that don't have any give will eventually harm your finger joints.  I had to reduce my time on the smartdevices due to joint pains.

On 2/1/2019 at 8:23 AM, aol000xw said:

Guys have you discussed the future of third party power bricks like SBrick and Buwizz given what this brings to the table?

They'll have to offer features not offered by LEGO. 

11 hours ago, Johnny1360 said:

I am actually grateful for smartphone control. My main concern is, I have a shoe box full of 20 year old computer games that are unusable, some of them are still fun to play, unfortunately unless you have an unsupported antique computer, they are bricked. I would hate to see that happen to a 20 year old LEGO set as I am sure the smartphone as we know it will not be around in twenty years. Of course for me this is a non issue as it is highly unlikely that I will be around either. Plenty of people still find enjoyment though with 20+ year old LEGO sets. 

Like the old LEGO RCX mindstorm and accessories that needs RS232 serial ports older Windows version?

5 hours ago, legobeast73 said:

Can 42100 operate without smartphone or tablet?

 

You could hack your own controller that talks BLE.  LEGO publishes their protocol.  There are few projects on Github.

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Just now, dr_spock said:

Tapping on glass that don't have any give will eventually harm your finger joints.  I had to reduce my time on the smartdevices due to joint pains.

Well, joints are relatively good because there is one excellent exercise for finger joints - push-ups on fingers :wink:

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