42100 Liebherr R9800 Excavator

[Toastie]

 

9 minutes ago, kbalage said:

What I was trying to formulate previously - Lego introduced the Powered Up system but only gave us set-specific applications so far, which was more or less fine considering the target audience of those sets (except of the hardcore train fans). When the Technic line gets the Powered Up treatment with Control+ it will be very important to have a native application that is flexible enough to show people why it is good to switch to Powered Up from Power Functions, and that has to show abilities beyond the basic set-specific controls.

I fully agree on that!

As @dr_spock has already mentioned, the links he provided do take you to some in-depth information about the Powered Up hardware as well as TLGs Bluetooth wireless protocol (LWP3.0) they are using for communication. There are others who have implemented Powered Up control software/software stacks; the Mindstorms forum has links as well as the TrainTech forum.

TLG themselves are actually not doing much in that regard - as far as I know, and in comparison what has been achieved already by others.  

This software (developed by @Cosmik42) is as far as I can tell the most advanced. It controls all sorts of hubs and third party Bluetooth devices such as SBrick etc. It is tailored towards train operation, but goes much, much beyond. Within the software you can run your on event driven code, i.e, automatically respond to sensor readings etc. I strongly suggest to download the software, unzip and run right from the unzip location to get an impression. The link is in the 3rd last post on the last page of the thread. 

Best regards,
Thorsten

 

[andythenorth]

it's also worth keeping an eye on the Mindstorms and Robotics forum (it's adjacent to Technic Forum in the list).  There are threads covering Spike, Bricknil, Powered Up etc.

https://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?/forums/forum/186-lego-mindstorms-and-robotics/

PU / Control + / Boost / Spike is all initially a little confusing, but fundamentally it's open, flexible, and (mostly) interconnectable.  It's very positive. 

[mpj]

On Wednesday, May 08, 2019 at 12:08 PM, kbalage said:

If I check this image for me it seems to have all controls on a single interface. The two upper sliders control the tracks, in the center that's the speed probably with the two smaller tilt indicators and there're two joysticks in the lower half. Technically you need your two thumbs to control the tracks so you probably won't start to fiddle with the lower joysticks the same time but I don't see why it couldn't be a parallel connection to both hubs. And as it was briefly shown you can also use program blocks to control the machine so in that case it should be possible to create a sequence that moves both the tracks and the arm/bucket the same time.

Theorically the 2 joysticks will control also the turret rotation (as in the real machine) and we suppose that turret rotation is connected to the hub in the undercarriage, so with 2 thumbs you should control functions connected to 2 different hubs.

[allanp]

Well, there's 2 joysticks and 2 sliders. That makes 6 controls. But there are 7 functions. Maybe the yellow buttons or the two dials by the right joystick do something.

Edited May 9, 2019 by allanp

[Toastie]

I believe the "app" capability speculations in this thread regarding the functionality of this model are one thing, the model itself another, TLGs LWP3.0 protocol is a third.

Whatever TLG will provide us with in terms of an app is up in the air; it depends on >their software engineers< and >your hardware< capabilities.

The various PuP devices (boost and so on and so for) are using Bluetooth LE (BLE) radio, with the (by convention) required services and so on. BLE relies on asynchronous communication, so you can "bind" as many BLE devices (= servers) as your hardware/software (your smartphone, tablet, computer … = client) can handle. Using a cheap BLE stick on a laptop, this may be as low as 4 or 5 devices. Using the built-in BL radio in a laptop with a software based Bluetooth stack may allow you to "bind" many, many more devices (20+).

When there is a need to bind to one BLE device and disconnect to be able to bind to another, either the hardware, software or both are "not good".

The difference between the different BLE servers TLG provides us with is not their BLE communication capabilities. It will rather depend on whether or not these devices have intelligence on their own. Spike Prime will have that and will be able to act autonomously on e.g. sensor events. The "2I/O Hub" (as in Batmobile, train) is dumb in that regard: It does what the client is telling it to do - perfect for remote control. So a hub with 4 outputs is just fine; four channels to control remotely.

However, another thing that happened with the new BLE devices is that a port can be both, input (for sensors) as well output (for motors, light …), depending on your "app" (= client) telling the port what it has to be. And this is totally cool!

In summary: We need to separate the capability of the BLE device/server (e.g. Hub), the capability of the BLE client (hardware/BLE stack) and the capability of the software running on the client ("App").

All the best,
Thorsten

       

        

[Ender3Guy]

On 2/1/2019 at 4:44 AM, J_C said:

I am not excited about the phone control. I have a smartphone, but we as a family try to limit screen time for children. Lego is one of the non-screen activity my children do (among skiing, reading, cycling, fishing, judo, dancing etc) but now Lego will be screen time.  they do not have smart phones of their own.

Same. This is very close to a deal-breaker for me. I'm tempted to set up an Arduino to masquerade as the controller, though it would require quite a bit of programming.

Lego has recently come out with Spike Prime on their Education website. Interestingly enough, the hub for Spike Prime is listed as the 'Technic Large Hub'. This seems to imply that we'll get a smaller hub later on, maybe with four ports. Perhaps we'll see this in the Liebherr? I'd really like this as the motors in Spike Prime have encoders and are probably on par with the EV3 motors in terms of torque. And, of course, this could mean that you could program the excavator. It would explain the high price point when compared to 42055.

[HRU_Bricks]

4 minutes ago, Ender3Guy said:

Same. This is very close to a deal-breaker for me. I'm tempted to set up an Arduino to masquerade as the controller, though it would require quite a bit of programming.

Lego has recently come out with Spike Prime on their Education website. Interestingly enough, the hub for Spike Prime is listed as the 'Technic Large Hub'. This seems to imply that we'll get a smaller hub later on, maybe with four ports. Perhaps we'll see this in the Liebherr? I'd really like this as the motors in Spike Prime have encoders and are probably on par with the EV3 motors in terms of torque. And, of course, this could mean that you could program the excavator. It would explain the high price point when compared to 42055.

Screen time in itself is not bad so long as the time itself is used to develop the users mind/skills (kids, adults it does not really matter what age). Mindless surfing, YouTube or games yes that is bad. Lego will have to do more of this type of integrated builds as it is an evolution of the way kids play because Lego is now competing with "screen time" now not other toys. The visual spacial learning as well as problem solving Lego provides kids can never be underestimated (most agree on this), now add programming into the mix that is even better! At the end of the day it is up to each parent, I will always let my children use a Lego build app (ie Boost, powered up, control plus etc) if they want to, the skills of programming are now invaluable in the modern world. Heck the amount of people in the work place that cannot even develop a basic excel analysis tool blows my mind.....it is seen as dark magic....  

The "Large Technic Hub" is interesting hopefully you are right and the 42100 hub is the smaller brother, that way the spike prime programming interface should be accessible to the 42100 hub. Also it would bee really good in if the 42100 motors have position sensors, well at least the boom functions....so many ideas!

[Ender3Guy]

3 hours ago, HRU_Bricks said:

Screen time in itself is not bad so long as the time itself is used to develop the users mind/skills (kids, adults it does not really matter what age). Mindless surfing, YouTube or games yes that is bad. Lego will have to do more of this type of integrated builds as it is an evolution of the way kids play because Lego is now competing with "screen time" now not other toys. The visual spacial learning as well as problem solving Lego provides kids can never be underestimated (most agree on this), now add programming into the mix that is even better! At the end of the day it is up to each parent, I will always let my children use a Lego build app (ie Boost, powered up, control plus etc) if they want to, the skills of programming are now invaluable in the modern world. Heck the amount of people in the work place that cannot even develop a basic excel analysis tool blows my mind.....it is seen as dark magic.... 

Same. I do most of the design work for my 3D printer in Fusion 360 and I have no issue with that. However, the excavator can almost be seen as gaming, and it's one more device that parents may need to monitor.

Note that Spike Prime can use Powered Up motors and so the motors in this set may or may not have rotation sensors.

[Bartybum]

Here we go again, the “screen time” argument...

Smartphone control is not screen time as some of you define it, but a controller based on screen technology - It’s simply a means to an end.

Edited May 14, 2019 by Bartybum

[Johnny1360]

Well the more we learn about this fantastic set, the more I realize, it's not for me. I wish it was but it just isn't. 

[Ox1337]

Seems it has longer linear actuators than the regular ones (61927c01), isn't it?

[coinoperator]

If you are so affraid of screen time (read internet use) than I would recommend to buy a refurbished smartphone and use that as dedicated Lego controller.
Install the Lego apps, remove simcard, delete any app that's not needed, blacklist MAC on wifi and you have a "brick" that can only run excisting apps.
Actually you can block allmost anything on a smartphone that you do not want to be used by you kid.

[1gor]

24 minutes ago, Ox1337 said:

Seems it has longer linear actuators than the regular ones (61927c01), isn't it?

Yes it is 

[doug72]

3 hours ago, Johnny1360 said:

Well the more we learn about this fantastic set, the more I realize, it's not for me. I wish it was but it just isn't. 

I,m inclined to agree, too costly, too large and where to display it.
Still negotiating where to display the Rough Terraine Crane. May convert to an improved pile drive MOC or break it down for spares.

I think the Spider Crane will my next buy and I have plenty of PF compnents for any future MOC,s etc.

Edited May 14, 2019 by Doug72

[Maaboo the Witch]

6 minutes ago, Doug72 said:

I think the Spder Crane will my next buy

Same here. I'm still waiting for pics though.

[CSX9992]

Does anyone know the USD price yet?

[Maaboo the Witch]

1 hour ago, CSX9992 said:

Does anyone know the USD price yet?

This thing isn't gonna be available for another five months at least, so you ain't buying it any time soon.

[allanp]

2 hours ago, CSX9992 said:

Does anyone know the USD price yet?

Well, it's estimated to be about 450 euro. Some sets in the states are more expensive (42070), others are less (42083), so id'e expect it to be about $450, give or take $30. 

[dimaks13]

12 minutes ago, allanp said:

so id'e expect it to be about $450, give or take $30

There could be more difference. Rough Terrain Crane was 230€ and $300. This one very well could be $550.

[allanp]

33 minutes ago, dimaks13 said:

There could be more difference. Rough Terrain Crane was 230€ and $300. This one very well could be $550.

Oh wow, didn't realise the difference was that big for the RTC.

[nerdsforprez]

Man, I wish I could be a fly on the wall in those Board meetings where the direction of the Technic product line was heading.  An over 550 dollar Technic set, especially in the context of all the complaints for Lego pricing really is high.  I would just really like to have heard those conversations and the rationale behind the creating the set.  I think this is really an exciting time to be a Technic fan. 

[CSX9992]

Ugh the wait is killing me! lol

[allanp]

10 hours ago, nerdsforprez said:

Man, I wish I could be a fly on the wall in those Board meetings where the direction of the Technic product line was heading.  An over 550 dollar Technic set, especially in the context of all the complaints for Lego pricing really is high.  I would just really like to have heard those conversations and the rationale behind the creating the set.  I think this is really an exciting time to be a Technic fan. 

I think this is kinda inevitable, and actually a good thing.

Sets like the UCS millennium falcon and the Bugatti Chiron were also very expensive, and they sold incredibly well and made lots of money for Lego. I remember not being able to imagine such a large and AFOL aimed exclusive premium set such as the UCS millennium falcon being on regular toy store shelves. It seemed almost too special for that. So seeing 6 of em on the shelf at my local Smyths was surreal. And they are selling like hot cakes. So of course we are going to see more expensive sets. And yes, I personally think this is a good thing for a few reasons.

It is a sign that TLG are doing well and that there are many many people out there willing to spend lots of money on the brand which fuels our hobby. Lego benefits greatly from this obviously as it makes them more money, but we benefit from it as well as we get lots more new sets and parts to choose from and will continue to do so. Compare our situation as Lego fans to someone who is a knex or mechano fan and I think it's easy to see how much better we have it, how lucky we are that Lego is doing so well that we are pretty well assured of many years of lots of new sets to choose from, and that they can afford to look at the ideas and suggestions of AFOLs (whether it be sets from Lego ideas or ideas for new parts) and take a chance and put them into production for us to enjoy. I'm not trying to brag or anything as this is TLGs success after all. We are just the lucky beneficiaries. 

It's also worth noting that even though there are more expensive sets appearing, this doesn't mean we no longer have cheaper alternatives to choose from. And when inflation is taken into account price by unit of weight isn't increasing, we are getting additional more expensive but also larger and more impressive options to choose from, while still also having more affordable options. So really I don't see any logical reasons to complain (not saying you have complained but I've certainly seen lots of complaints about these larger sets), except perhaps if you're a collector who really wants to own a copy of every set from a particular theme. In that case, your wallet has my sympathy!

That's not to say I like this particular Liebherr set, but that fact that it exists as an option for me to freely choose to buy or not to buy doesn't bother me. In fact I'm glad that TLG is doing well enough to offer such a gigantic, expensive thing. Whether I like the set or not is irrelevant in that regard. I do have my concerns as to where Technic is going, but that's more to do with the lack of mechanical authenticity, colour barf (and how vastly inferior it is to having more numbered bags) and to some extent the ratio of building time spent on mechanisms compared to less interesting non mechanisms. The increasing size, price, part count isn't a concern I think. 

Edited May 18, 2019 by allanp

[nerdsforprez]

8 minutes ago, allanp said:

I think this is kinda inevitable, and actually a good thing.

Sets like the UCS millennium falcon and the Bugatti Chiron were also very expensive, and they sold incredibly well and made lots of money for Lego. I remember not being able to imagine such a large and AFOL aimed exclusive premium set such as the UCS millennium falcon being on regular toy store shelves. It seemed almost too special for that. So seeing 6 of em on the shelf at my local Smyths was surreal. And they are selling like hot cakes. So of course we are going to see more expensive sets. And yes, I personally think this is a good thing for a few reasons.

It is a sign that TLG are doing well and that there are many many people out there willing to spend lots of money on the brand which fuels our hobby. Lego benefits greatly from this obviously as it makes them more money, but we benefit from it as well as we get lots more new sets and parts to choose from and will continue to do so. Compare our situation as Lego fans to someone who is a knex or mechano fan and I think it's easy to see how much better we have it, how lucky we are that Lego is doing so well that we are pretty well assured of many years of lots of new sets to choose from, and that they can afford to look at the ideas and suggestions of AFOLs (whether it be sets from Lego ideas or ideas for new parts) and take a chance and put them into production for us to enjoy. I'm not trying to brag or anything as this is TLGs success after all. We are just the lucky beneficiaries. 

It's also worth noting that even though there are more expensive sets appearing, this doesn't mean we no longer have cheaper alternatives to choose from. And when inflation is taken into account price by unit of weight isn't increasing, we are getting additional more expensive but also larger and more impressive options to choose from, while still also having more affordable options. So really I don't see any logical reasons to complain (not saying you have complained but I've certainly seen lots of complaints about these larger sets), except perhaps if you're a collector who really wants to own a copy of every set from a particular theme. In that case, your wallet has my sympathy!

That's not to say I like this particular Liebherr set, but that fact that it exists as an option for me to freely choose to buy or not to buy doesn't bother me. In fact I'm glad that TLG is doing well enough to offer such a gigantic, expensive thing. Whether I like the set or not is irrelevant in that regard. I do have my concerns as to where Technic is going, but that's more to do with the lack of mechanical authenticity, colour barf (and how vastly inferior it is to having more numbered bags) and to some extent the ratio of building time spent on mechanisms compared to less interesting non mechanisms. The increasing size, price, part count isn't a concern I think. 

Yea no I wasn't complaining.  Just thought it would really be interesting to hear all the action.  I agree with everything you mention, but admittedly, somewhat surprised for the jump etc. in the Technic lineup.  And although examples like the Bugatti are helpful, this is a jump of 200 USD (assumed) even from THAT set.  I also see the movement as a good thing.  But this jump is really a big one.  One has to recognize and appreciate that. 

[allanp]

8 minutes ago, nerdsforprez said:

Yea no I wasn't complaining.  Just thought it would really be interesting to hear all the action.  I agree with everything you mention, but admittedly, somewhat surprised for the jump etc. in the Technic lineup.  And although examples like the Bugatti are helpful, this is a jump of 200 USD (assumed) even from THAT set.  I also see the movement as a good thing.  But this jump is really a big one.  One has to recognize and appreciate that. 

That's one small step for Lego, one giant leap for Technic theme!

Edited May 18, 2019 by allanp