Themes LEGO should discontinue

[Vindicare]

4 hours ago, TeriXeri said:

Those themes could end right now and I wouldn't mind:

• Star Wars
• Disney
• Harry Potter
• Marvel / DC Superheroes
• Minecraft
• Overwatch 
• Jurassic World
• Brickheadz
• Architecture

There's more then that but at that point it'd just be a list of everything but a few themes I actually buy.

 

 

Whoa, that’s quite a list! Better be careful, there’s some fan favorites there.  If Marvel could do CMF series’ I would probably be okay with the theme going away. I mean, the sets have mostly been nice, but the minifigs are where it’s at. 

3 hours ago, danth said:

They still keep making sets that no kid wants though, like Sand Crawlers. A Sand Crawler is just a big ugly brown box. It's just a throwaway background design from a 40 year old movie. It wasn't in the prequels or the sequels.

I guarantee you that there's not a kid in the world that wants that set. Kids want spaceships from the newer movies. It's really only for adult SW collectors who want to upgrade their old Sand Crawler. So it's actually a super niche set, and it only exists because the SW fan base is so reliable at throwing money at anything SW.

It's pretty sad really. Lego is taking the easy money and as a result we don't get fresh, creative, colorful non-licensed space sets, and won't as long as there is a licensed alternative.

This is why I hope the SW movies continue to suck. Maybe they'll finally go away forever.

There is a lot to unpack here. Just remember, you not liking a movie doesn’t negate the millions who do & continue to buy the merch. 

I also don’t understand where this notion that SW is killing the chance to get non licensed Space? We’ve had plenty of themes & waves of Space in the twenty years SW has been around. 

[The Brick Boss]

37 minutes ago, Vindicare said:

 If Marvel could do CMF series’ I would probably be okay with the theme going away.

Or people packs. 

 

38 minutes ago, Vindicare said:

I also don’t understand where this notion that SW is killing the chance to get non licensed Space? We’ve had plenty of themes & waves of Space in the twenty years SW has been around. 

I don't either. City Space, Mars Mission, Space Police and Alien Conquest were all around while Star Wars was there. Plus Star Wars is more for TFOLs than KFOLs so they'll need space sets for kids along with Star Wars. 

[Lego David]

58 minutes ago, Vindicare said:

I also don’t understand where this notion that SW is killing the chance to get non licensed Space? We’ve had plenty of themes & waves of Space in the twenty years SW has been around

 

14 minutes ago, Brandon Pea said:

Or people packs. 

 

I don't either. City Space, Mars Mission, Space Police and Alien Conquest were all around while Star Wars was there. Plus Star Wars is more for TFOLs than KFOLs so they'll need space sets for kids along with Star Wars. 

It's actually rather simple: Before the Star Wars prequels came out, we used to get new space themes every year. As soon as The Phantom Menace comes out and LEGO acquires to Star Wars license, LEGO Space takes a total break for about 6 years. After the Star Wars prequels were done, LEGO Space returns with Mars Mission in 2007, and continues with new sets every year until roughly 2014. And after that, guess what came out... The Force Awakens. And we haven't gotten any original space sets ever since. 

If that isn't proof that Star Wars is what's blocking the return of LEGO Space themes... then I don't know what it is.

Edited February 17, 2020 by Lego David

[danth]

1 hour ago, Vindicare said:

I also don’t understand where this notion that SW is killing the chance to get non licensed Space? We’ve had plenty of themes & waves of Space in the twenty years SW has been around. 

 

51 minutes ago, Brandon Pea said:

City Space, Mars Mission, Space Police and Alien Conquest were all around while Star Wars was there. 

I can lay it out for you guys. Non-licensed Space sets are absolutely not allowed to exist while Star Wars movies are in theaters.

The first year ever, after 20+ steady years, that there were no Lego Space sets was 2000. This was immediately after the first ever Star Wars sets in 1999. Then, in 2001 when Space sets returned, they were on Mars. Firmly set on a real world in our own solar system. Not deep space, not out in the galaxy. Not anything that could be confused with Star Wars. Then nothing for six years while Star Wars movies were in theatres.

Finally, in 2007 we got Lego Space sets again. On Mars...again. And just in time not to compete with the Revenge of the Sith sets.

Then we get pretty steady Lego Space on the shelves until 2014. Guess what happens the year after? The Force Awakens. And we haven't had a Space theme since, for 6 whole years!

All evidence points to some non-competition strategy to keep in-house Space themes off the shelves when there are Star Wars movies being made. 

Edited February 17, 2020 by danth

[TeriXeri]

24 minutes ago, danth said:

Then we get pretty steady Lego Space on the shelves until 2014. Guess what happens the year after? The Force Awakens. And we haven't had a Space theme since, for 6 whole years!

All evidence points to some non-competition strategy to keep in-house Space sets off the shelves when there are Star Wars movies being made. 

While LEGO MOVIE 1 Spaceship sets existed during 2014/2015, and LEGO MOVIE sets in 2019 but soon are fully retired, I wonder what the future holds now that SW Episode 9 is out.

 

LEGO MOVIE 2 sets especially retired very fast, for being a 2019 theme that's far less then the typical 1-1.5 years.

 

Personally I still consider LEGO MOVIE themes Special Themes rather then Space themes, even while Movie 2 certainly had 6 actual Space Ship sets and more space-type sets like Space Squad / Workshop / Space Palace

• Pop-Up Party Bus

• Sweet Mayhem's Systar Starship!

• Rex's Rexplorer!

• The Rexcelsior!

• Wyld-Mayhem Star Fighter

• Emmet's Dream House/Rescue Rocket!

Edited February 17, 2020 by TeriXeri

[TeriXeri]

1 hour ago, Vindicare said:

Whoa, that’s quite a list! Better be careful, there’s some fan favorites there.  If Marvel could do CMF series’ I would probably be okay with the theme going away. I mean, the sets have mostly been nice, but the minifigs are where it’s at. 

I would've added CMF to the list, but for that theme it's the Blind Bag system I dislike.

[The Brick Boss]

57 minutes ago, Lego David said:

If that isn't proof that Star Wars is what's blocking the return of LEGO Space themes... then I don't know what it is.

Well I do have to admit that Lego does that a lot of times. When they bring something new in, they have to kick something else out. Or....they just don't try anything new in favor of what's proven to be quote on quote "successful". Most of the time, that's the case. But in the case of space related sets, I can tell you for a fact that isn't the case. I can say that for a fact, because I grew up when space sets almost ruled TLG. That would be from the late 90s to 2011.

Yes, I do agree! We may want Lego to do certain things. If we don't buy, we just want to see it on the shelves. But as my good buddy @Vindicare once said, sometimes Lego doesn't consider certain things even worth making. So its best to keep our wants within reason. 

Edited February 17, 2020 by Brandon Pea

[Toastie]

6 hours ago, danth said:

So it's actually a super niche set, and it only exists because the SW fan base is so reliable at throwing money at anything SW.

I sure do understand your perspective - but here you are saying, want it is, don't you?

The "super niche" is throwing enough money at TLG so that they do continue to make them. However, we were also discussing here and elsewhere on EB how much TLG has become a "big" company, with all that fallout. As I don't believe, not a second, that TLG is the oh so caring for the poor and willing-to-lose-money-in-favor-of-a-few-good-friends type company, you have proven that the "super niche" is all but that. It must be a major product. Money wise that is. Otherwise, economics does not make any sense. I don't believe that they make sand crawlers to make a couple of weirdos happy. Or do I miss something?

 

2 hours ago, danth said:

All evidence points to some non-competition strategy to keep in-house Space themes off the shelves when there are Star Wars movies being made. 

Because of economic success, right? Not because of not liking in-house space themes.

See, I don't like SUVs because I believe they are a very funny means to get one person from point A to point B - in a city. They do make them, regardless of any reasonable argument, other than: Me want comfort and me want safety and me want fun. Because they are economically super successful and sell like crazy. Over and out. As the say: Beam me up Scotty, there is no intelligent life on Earth

All the best - and may the rich become wise ...

Thorsten

 

   

Edited February 17, 2020 by Toastie

[Tariq j]

7 hours ago, danth said:

They still keep making sets that no kid wants though, like Sand Crawlers. A Sand Crawler is just a big ugly brown box. It's just a throwaway background design from a 40 year old movie. It wasn't in the prequels or the sequels.

It’s more than just a background design. The Sandcrawler (and the Jawas) get C-3PO and R2 to Luke. Which in turn then sets the rest of the movie into motion. Narratively it’s quite an important part of the film. 

The Star Wars line does see a lot of repetition. Though we’ve only seen 3 iterations of the Sandcrawler since 2005.

 

[Vindicare]

9 hours ago, Lego David said:

 

It's actually rather simple: Before the Star Wars prequels came out, we used to get new space themes every year. As soon as The Phantom Menace comes out and LEGO acquires to Star Wars license, LEGO Space takes a total break for about 6 years. After the Star Wars prequels were done, LEGO Space returns with Mars Mission in 2007, and continues with new sets every year until roughly 2014. And after that, guess what came out... The Force Awakens. And we haven't gotten any original space sets ever since. 

If that isn't proof that Star Wars is what's blocking the return of LEGO Space themes... then I don't know what it is.

@danth That’s just nitpicking, honestly. We do get Space themes along with SW...just not during the times the movies are in theatres. Knowing what SW means to LEGO, I can’t say that I blame them. At the same time, I’m sure they could’ve stood side by side without seeing much of a dip in SW sales. Adults would most likely get both if they were so inclined. I doubt many kids, after seeing the movie, would choose a random “generic” ship without those characters they just saw on the big screen. 

But to act like we haven’t seen Space themes because of SW is disingenuous. We periodically didn’t. I happen to think Alien Conquest & Galaxy Squad were both fresh, creative, & colorful. And they were on the shelves side by side with SW. Going off what you said however, we should be getting a new Space theme this year(unlikely at this point probably) or next since SW is done for the foreseeable future. 

8 hours ago, TeriXeri said:

I would've added CMF to the list, but for that theme it's the Blind Bag system I dislike.

I get that. I don’t mind it so much, as they’re easy enough to figure out who’s in there, despite being a bit time consuming. There was quite a few of these types of toys when I growing up as well, plus I was big on trading cards of all sorts, so definitely used to the blind bag concept. Not knowing what you’re buying, in a sort, is off putting a bit. 

[Lego David]

35 minutes ago, Vindicare said:

we should be getting a new Space theme this year(unlikely at this point probably) or next since SW is done for the foreseeable future. 

The next Star Wars movie is supposed to come out in 2022... less then two years from now. Even if they wanted to release a new Space theme in the meantime, I doubt they would even have the time to develop the line before the next movie hits theaters. 

Unless Star Wars takes another extensive break (which in the Disney era, seems very unlikely) I don't think we'll be getting any new original Space Themes.

[meliander]

I would have to agree with both people on both sides of the barricades. First of all Mars Mission, Alien Conquest, Galaxy Squad were all half baked themes. Yes, they were on the shelves together with Star Wars, but the Space theme as a general never got that love and treatment as it had in the 90s. It never had received the priority and the development time a proper major theme gets. So getting those themes (even though the designs of some of the sets were not bad at all) alongside SW is not "we are getting Space, too" - we are not. We are getting Star Wars because the power of this franchise is helping TLG succeed as a company. I don't necessarily want SW theme to discontinue - if people throw money at it to keep TLG happy and prosperous - fine with me. The only thing I want is that TLG would have believed that they can do great on their own, too. I want them to try to risk it and invest heavily into making new unique sci-fi worlds (not comical and colorful Galaxy Squad or Space Police 3 with cartoonish aliens, but true serious (like Star Wars) worlds) and try to sell them for a couple of years, developing and supporting them. And see if the power of their designers can make the sales better (or at least comparable - minus the licensee fees they are paying Disney). They CAN (as in being able) do that - because they already do that with other themes i.e. Ninjago.

Here is an example from the videogame world and a little company called Bioware. They "had been" (lol) amazing RPG makers. At some point in the early 2000s when they have already made a hit named Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic, they were starting working on a new game. They could have easily continued to stick to SW licenses only and safely produce successful products, but instead, they went for their new and own franchise - Mass Effect. They have already been great and now they got complete freedom. No "assisted" creative vision, no approvals, no George Lucas. And it turned out to be one of the best franchises (and sci-fi worlds) ever created in the entertainment industry including cinema. And for a long time, no Star Wars game could come even close - even though having "Star Wars" in the title. TLG does have one of the most talented designers in the world. Maybe not storytellers - but it's easily fixable. Sadly, a lot of corporate bosses like it the easy way.

[Medzomorak]

2 hours ago, meliander said:

I would have to agree with both people on both sides of the barricades. First of all Mars Mission, Alien Conquest, Galaxy Squad were all half baked themes. Yes, they were on the shelves together with Star Wars, but the Space theme as a general never got that love and treatment as it had in the 90s. It never had received the priority and the development time a proper major theme gets. So getting those themes (even though the designs of some of the sets were not bad at all) alongside SW is not "we are getting Space, too" - we are not. We are getting Star Wars because the power of this franchise is helping TLG succeed as a company. I don't necessarily want SW theme to discontinue - if people throw money at it to keep TLG happy and prosperous - fine with me. The only thing I want is that TLG would have believed that they can do great on their own, too. I want them to try to risk it and invest heavily into making new unique sci-fi worlds (not comical and colorful Galaxy Squad or Space Police 3 with cartoonish aliens, but true serious (like Star Wars) worlds) and try to sell them for a couple of years, developing and supporting them. And see if the power of their designers can make the sales better (or at least comparable - minus the licensee fees they are paying Disney). They CAN (as in being able) do that - because they already do that with other themes i.e. Ninjago.

Here is an example from the videogame world and a little company called Bioware. They "had been" (lol) amazing RPG makers. At some point in the early 2000s when they have already made a hit named Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic, they were starting working on a new game. They could have easily continued to stick to SW licenses only and safely produce successful products, but instead, they went for their new and own franchise - Mass Effect. They have already been great and now they got complete freedom. No "assisted" creative vision, no approvals, no George Lucas. And it turned out to be one of the best franchises (and sci-fi worlds) ever created in the entertainment industry including cinema. And for a long time, no Star Wars game could come even close - even though having "Star Wars" in the title. TLG does have one of the most talented designers in the world. Maybe not storytellers - but it's easily fixable. Sadly, a lot of corporate bosses like it the easy way.

I agree with everything you've just said. Considering this I may accept Ninjago as being something really special, even if I generally dislike the theme and prefer the old Casle Ninja way.

Maybe there'll be a time when Marvel, Star Wars, Batman, Harry Potter and these pop cultural figures will become truly boring and nothing new will block the way for Lego's own creativeness.

 

[Digger of Bricks]

19 hours ago, Lego David said:

20 hours ago, danth said:

This is why I hope the SW movies continue to suck. Maybe they'll finally go away forever.

I was hoping for the exact same thing. But even with bad movies, there are still shows like the Clone Wars or Mandalorian... And as long as those exist, Star Wars isn't going anywhere unfortunately.

Perhaps it's too early to say if the same holds true for Disney Plus' live-action shows, but during the heyday of The Clone Wars, TV shows just didn't seem to affect the coexistence of in-house Space themes alongside Star Wars in the same way cinematic features have.

6 hours ago, Vindicare said:

15 hours ago, TeriXeri said:

I would've added CMF to the list, but for that theme it's the Blind Bag system I dislike.

I get that. I don’t mind it so much, as they’re easy enough to figure out who’s in there, despite being a bit time consuming. There was quite a few of these types of toys when I growing up as well, plus I was big on trading cards of all sorts, so definitely used to the blind bag concept. Not knowing what you’re buying, in a sort, is off putting a bit. 

I personally wouldn't want the CMS "blind-bag system" to go anywhere, as it has afforded us many archetypes from themes and genres that otherwise could've never been viably represented in any other context.

5 hours ago, meliander said:

I would have to agree with both people on both sides of the barricades. First of all Mars Mission, Alien Conquest, Galaxy Squad were all half baked themes. Yes, they were on the shelves together with Star Wars, but the Space theme as a general never got that love and treatment as it had in the 90s. It never had received the priority and the development time a proper major theme gets. So getting those themes (even though the designs of some of the sets were not bad at all) alongside SW is not "we are getting Space, too" - we are not. We are getting Star Wars because the power of this franchise is helping TLG succeed as a company. I don't necessarily want SW theme to discontinue - if people throw money at it to keep TLG happy and prosperous - fine with me. The only thing I want is that TLG would have believed that they can do great on their own, too. I want them to try to risk it and invest heavily into making new unique sci-fi worlds (not comical and colorful Galaxy Squad or Space Police 3 with cartoonish aliens, but true serious (like Star Wars) worlds) and try to sell them for a couple of years, developing and supporting them. And see if the power of their designers can make the sales better (or at least comparable - minus the licensee fees they are paying Disney). They CAN (as in being able) do that - because they already do that with other themes i.e. Ninjago.

Here is an example from the videogame world and a little company called Bioware. They "had been" (lol) amazing RPG makers. At some point in the early 2000s when they have already made a hit named Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic, they were starting working on a new game. They could have easily continued to stick to SW licenses only and safely produce successful products, but instead, they went for their new and own franchise - Mass Effect. They have already been great and now they got complete freedom. No "assisted" creative vision, no approvals, no George Lucas. And it turned out to be one of the best franchises (and sci-fi worlds) ever created in the entertainment industry including cinema. And for a long time, no Star Wars game could come even close - even though having "Star Wars" in the title. TLG does have one of the most talented designers in the world. Maybe not storytellers - but it's easily fixable. Sadly, a lot of corporate bosses like it the easy way.

Very well said @meliander, especially on that last paragraph... 

[TeriXeri]

9 minutes ago, Digger of Bricks said:

I personally wouldn't want the CMS "blind-bag system" to go anywhere, as it has afforded us many archetypes from themes and genres that otherwise could've never been viably represented in any other context.

While true that it brings unique figure types, doesn't take away that the system is terrible if you don't have access to the physical product.

Literally no stores here ever have them on shelves, so "feeling" isn't an option to bypass the random factor.

Would I buy them if they weren't random ? Yes, I'd even pay extra (but not via secondary sellers)

Edited February 18, 2020 by TeriXeri

[Digger of Bricks]

2 minutes ago, TeriXeri said:

While true that it brings unique figure types, doesn't take away that the system is terrible if you don't have access to the physical product.

Literally no stores here ever have them on shelves, so "feeling" isn't an option to bypass the random factor.

Would I buy them if they weren't random ? Yes, I'd even pay extra (but not via secondary sellers)

Well then, what would be a better "system" that they could go by as an alternative? How else could they distribute CMF in a less frustrating manner? 

[Gorilla94]

3 hours ago, Medzomorak said:

I agree with everything you've just said. Considering this I may accept Ninjago as being something really special, even if I generally dislike the theme and prefer the old Casle Ninja way.

Maybe there'll be a time when Marvel, Star Wars, Batman, Harry Potter and these pop cultural figures will become truly boring and nothing new will block the way for Lego's own creativeness.

 

In an old interview the sentence was said "We learned, that we have to fill our bricks with stories". The audio book with Johnny Thunder included in the  cheapest orient expedition set worked great in it's time.

Today it is more difficult. "Free audiobook" was special. Today children are drowning in commercials and free content on youtube. Licenced themes are a possibility to avoid the risk of failing. What i experienced is, that children are more and more crazy about brands, too. When i was small it didn't matter to me or my friends from what brand my clothes came. Today i hear children very often discuss stuff like that. It isn't just "i adore this character. I want a toy of him." It is about "this franchise is popular. So it is a status symbol to show you are a fan". There seem to be so many girls out there wearing Star Wars merchandise without knowing who Luke Skywalker is, since it is "cool" to be a nerd.

The sand crawler is a moving fortress and beside of his more rusty design it is the same idea Lego had with the Nexo Knights castle. The Non-ucs-version works as a toy without licence. This way we can get neat sets.

The problem is the way themes are treated. Of course sets like the one with Kylo VS Rey with some plates and a half tree are terrible. Many sets of the Lord of the rings line were really bad, too. A Uruk battle pack would have been insanely successfull. We got a huge ork forge set with very few orcs and and overpriced building, which would have been still overpriced, if the build was something interesting and well executed - which it wasn't.

Batman for example has so much potential. A modular Arkham Asylum like Hogwards would be great even for people that don't like Superheroes. Or a cool clocktower including Mad Hatter... or a pretty Wayne Manor including Hush. Something like ninjago City with Gotham would be perfect for City Fans, too. A good minifig scale batmobil would sell insanely well. Besides the one in the retro batcave we never got a really good version. Of course nobody wants the seventh "meh" version with 2 boring versions of Batman and one of the again and again reused villains.

[Vindicare]

12 hours ago, meliander said:

I would have to agree with both people on both sides of the barricades. First of all Mars Mission, Alien Conquest, Galaxy Squad were all half baked themes. Yes, they were on the shelves together with Star Wars, but the Space theme as a general never got that love and treatment as it had in the 90s. It never had received the priority and the development time a proper major theme gets. So getting those themes (even though the designs of some of the sets were not bad at all) alongside SW is not "we are getting Space, too" - we are not. We are getting Star Wars because the power of this franchise is helping TLG succeed as a company. I don't necessarily want SW theme to discontinue - if people throw money at it to keep TLG happy and prosperous - fine with me. The only thing I want is that TLG would have believed that they can do great on their own, too. I want them to try to risk it and invest heavily into making new unique sci-fi worlds (not comical and colorful Galaxy Squad or Space Police 3 with cartoonish aliens, but true serious (like Star Wars) worlds) and try to sell them for a couple of years, developing and supporting them. And see if the power of their designers can make the sales better (or at least comparable - minus the licensee fees they are paying Disney). They CAN (as in being able) do that - because they already do that with other themes i.e. Ninjago.

Just because you don’t like or prefer they went in a different direction doesn’t mean it’s half baked. That’s discrediting everyone who likes/loves those themes. How do you know it never received the priority or development time? Again, just because you don’t like said Space theme doesn’t mean we didn’t get Space themes alongside SW....because we did. That’s not subjective. We did get Space. Maybe not your vision of Space...but we got it. See, this is the attitude I spoke of earlier. Stating matter of factly “we are not” to “we are getting Space, too” is objectively false. 

There are plenty of themes I don’t care for, but I don’t sit here complaining & calling them shoddy designs & attacking the theme as a whole(and the designers in a sense)or anything. I just know they aren’t for me. 

Edited February 18, 2020 by Vindicare

[Maple]

On 2/17/2020 at 3:22 PM, Lego David said:

If that isn't proof that Star Wars is what's blocking the return of LEGO Space themes... then I don't know what it is.

GREAT NEWS EVERYONE! LEGO David is here to tell you about the return of LEGO Space in 2020, 2021, 2022 as there are no Star Wars movies coming out for a few years! I can't wait to see them at this weekend's toy fair.  

Here's an idea, LEGO Sci-fi Space no longer sells. That simple. Alien Conquest last one year, it was supposed to last two. The whole second wave of which was canceled because of poor sales. Power Rangers in Space, I mean Galaxy Squad only lasted one year too. 

Maybe Disney has something in a new deal saying no Space sets but I doubt it as TLM2 sets were most weird space ships. And that movie bombed and all the sets have been 50% off and still sit on the shelves.

If that's not proof of sci-fi space themes not selling, therefore not being made, I don't know what is.

Alien Conquest and Galaxy Squad have better ship designs than anything LEGO / Star Wars has come up with in the last 10 years. 70708, Hive Crawler is one of the best designed sets ever. The problem was it was so overpriced.

70708: Hive Crawler

Edited February 18, 2020 by Maple

[The Brick Boss]

1 hour ago, Vindicare said:

Again, just because you don’t like said Space theme doesn’t mean we didn’t get Space themes alongside SW....because we did.

That's what I said in an earlier response. 

[Toastie]

More than one year and 24 pages later ...

Time for an intermediate result/executive summary:

• There are as many themes LEGO should discontinue as there are posters
• Some posters gang-up and ... then ... break up again ... to gang up again
• SW sucks
• SW does not suck
• Space [though] is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space
• TLG has not the faintest idea of what they are doing. Chances are, they exist only in a bubble filled with Danish ice cream - in a parallel universe not heard of - but with direct wormhole-type connections from their ice cream buried production plants into every LEGO store on Earth
• It is currently up-to debate, how big the LEGO store on Mars really is. It may be mind-bogglingly big though.
• I love this place 

I think this is essentially it.

In about a year, I'll try to shoot another summary.

 

All the best!
Thorsten

 

 

[meliander]

6 hours ago, Vindicare said:

Just because you don’t like or prefer they went in a different direction doesn’t mean it’s half baked. That’s discrediting everyone who likes/loves those themes. How do you know it never received the priority or development time? Again, just because you don’t like said Space theme doesn’t mean we didn’t get Space themes alongside SW....because we did. That’s not subjective. We did get Space. Maybe not your vision of Space...but we got it. See, this is the attitude I spoke of earlier. Stating matter of factly “we are not” to “we are getting Space, too” is objectively false. 

There are plenty of themes I don’t care for, but I don’t sit here complaining & calling them shoddy designs & attacking the theme as a whole(and the designers in a sense)or anything. I just know they aren’t for me. 

I apologize if I tried to sound overly objective. The reason I thought they were half baked is mostly due to the way they were supported and developed. A couple of waves tops, if I remember correctly. And then draught for several years. Which is different from what Space meant for the company all the way from its introduction until the end of the 90s. When there were new sets every year, new (and different) factions, which all interacted with each other in one way or another. I'm not trying to attack the designers, I actually adore them. Yes, I didn't like the cartoonish villains in SP3 and the tone of the galaxy squad, but that's just my taste.

The decision to switch one of their main tentpoles from in-house to SW I believe has nothing to do with the designers themselves, it's a corporate decision, which I believe was lead by the fact that since SW introduction they have been selling well, which by the way also coincided with a dark period for TLG overall in the early 2000s.

Regarding those themes in general, I still did buy many of those sets from in-house themes, because I love space, Mars Mission being my favorite among them (I almost got the complete theme). But then when I thought that space is coming back again with the 2nd wave of Mars Mission sets, which I thought were really good, it just ended.

Again, I apologize if I offended someone's favorite sets or themes - we all like different things and I like that Lego is trying to diversify its catalog to appeal to a broader audience. However, I still think that they sometimes should believe more in their own strengths and define their catalog according to their creative judgment and develop new franchises instead of relying on existing ones.

@Toastie thanks for the positive and fun summary :)

[Vindicare]

1 hour ago, meliander said:

I apologize if I tried to sound overly objective. The reason I thought they were half baked is mostly due to the way they were supported and developed. A couple of waves tops, if I remember correctly. And then draught for several years. Which is different from what Space meant for the company all the way from its introduction until the end of the 90s. When there were new sets every year, new (and different) factions, which all interacted with each other in one way or another. I'm not trying to attack the designers, I actually adore them. Yes, I didn't like the cartoonish villains in SP3 and the tone of the galaxy squad, but that's just my taste.

The decision to switch one of their main tentpoles from in-house to SW I believe has nothing to do with the designers themselves, it's a corporate decision, which I believe was lead by the fact that since SW introduction they have been selling well, which by the way also coincided with a dark period for TLG overall in the early 2000s.

Regarding those themes in general, I still did buy many of those sets from in-house themes, because I love space, Mars Mission being my favorite among them (I almost got the complete theme). But then when I thought that space is coming back again with the 2nd wave of Mars Mission sets, which I thought were really good, it just ended.

Again, I apologize if I offended someone's favorite sets or themes - we all like different things and I like that Lego is trying to diversify its catalog to appeal to a broader audience. However, I still think that they sometimes should believe more in their own strengths and define their catalog according to their creative judgment and develop new franchises instead of relying on existing ones.

@Toastie thanks for the positive and fun summary :)

It’s all good, it’s just the matter of fact when it was opinion was a bit much. As to Alien Conquest & Galaxy Squad(to a lesser extent) I always figured they were in the same category as Pharaoh’s Quest, Monster Fighters, Dino & the like. One & done themes, not that those themes didn’t get the attention they deserved.  I would love a return to that multi faction, multi year Space theme, even if they go a different route than the Classic factions. 

[astral brick]

On 2/18/2020 at 5:24 PM, meliander said:

I don't necessarily want SW theme to discontinue - if people throw money at it to keep TLG happy and prosperous - fine with me. The only thing I want is that TLG would have believed that they can do great on their own, too. I want them to try to risk it and invest heavily into making new unique sci-fi worlds (not comical and colorful Galaxy Squad or Space Police 3 with cartoonish aliens, but true serious (like Star Wars) worlds) and try to sell them for a couple of years, developing and supporting them. And see if the power of their designers can make the sales better (or at least comparable - minus the licensee fees they are paying Disney).

I totally agree with you.

On 2/18/2020 at 5:24 PM, meliander said:

Here is an example from the videogame world and a little company called Bioware.

Very interesting comparison.

[Medzomorak]

7 hours ago, meliander said:

I apologize if I tried to sound overly objective. The reason I thought they were half baked is mostly due to the way they were supported and developed. A couple of waves tops, if I remember correctly. And then draught for several years. Which is different from what Space meant for the company all the way from its introduction until the end of the 90s. When there were new sets every year, new (and different) factions, which all interacted with each other in one way or another. I'm not trying to attack the designers, I actually adore them. Yes, I didn't like the cartoonish villains in SP3 and the tone of the galaxy squad, but that's just my taste.

I think Vindicare had a strong point here, but I'm still with you on the issue. You was not that subjective at all. I'm not a space guy myself, but just as I've disliked the one-yeared themes with Pirates I feel the same things with those different space runs.

Lego should really start to understand the power of basic uniformity inside genres,  the power of factions again. 

I personally hate this shallow approach of leaving the whole work behind if it does not sell as good as SW instantly. That is a very outdated business thinking in my opinion. Lego should stop throwing darts randomly on the board and try to evolve all released ideas instead of throwing in the towel all the time.

Or if it really turns out to be a money sinkhole, just create the new angle indeed but create some links at least. The newer space themes had zero connection, they've all seemed so distant to each other. They had independently pretty good sets but together they also seemed to be the reboots of each other. The human good guys against silly aliens. Also I don't think any of them was better then the previous one, so why not making a common universe at least? Also why making one of them (Mars Mission) aliens a bit more menacing and the UFOs cartoonish like hell?

This is why I think Fantasy Castle was one of the strongest modern themes. When skeletons got boring the trolls came and they were quite refreshing , still not in an entire reboot. They also brought the dwarves. A super faction expanding the same universe again. Then the Market Village for some world builder set. These factions were all different and independent, but still had their common ground. Also they had cool figure packs.

That's how you keep up constant interest for years.