Themes LEGO should discontinue

[Robianco]

None. Lego shouldn’t discontinue any themes that they find to be either profitable or interesting. 

There are hundreds and hundreds of sets created each year for many, many themes and they don’t all have to be of interest to everyone.

If people don’t like sets they can always moc something they do like.

And do people genuinely think that the Star Wars license would be parked or scaled down to make room for an in-house Space theme? They're two entirely different things.

Edited May 8, 2019 by Robianco

[TeriXeri]

6 hours ago, x105Black said:

The two things are independent.  

I agree , they are seperated themes on Brickset after all, and on those forums, Nexo was listed under Action and not historic which I think that was the right thing to do.

6 hours ago, Robianco said:

And do people genuinely think that the Star Wars license would be parked or scaled down to make room for an in-house Space theme? They're two entirely different things.

They are seperate yes, but maybe it's just speculating too much about themes re-appearing/disappearing.

I don't think Star Wars should discontinue at all even if I don't collect any of it.

Edited May 8, 2019 by TeriXeri

[Digger of Bricks]

7 hours ago, x105Black said:

About Disney and Star Wars, yeah, that's going to keep going on forever.  I just hope that these announced release dates are in reference to the Benioff and Weiss movies, not Rian Johnson's.

Well, whoever's trilogy it may be, the least I can hope for from it is a fresh aesthetic that doesn't include tired retreads of the same ol' X-Wings, TIE Fighters, Corellian Freighter, and the such. I mean, damnit, I'd like to see something a little more colorful and pulpy from their spacecraft, kinda more in the vein of Flash Gordon and the MCU's Guardians of the Galaxy! While I know we'd never see colored canopies from Star Wars in the same capacity Lego's in-house Space themes have given us (something I care even more for from Classic Space & Company than just the minifigures those themes offer), couldn't Disney at least give us more spacecraft akin to the MCU's Milano, for instance? 

6 hours ago, Robianco said:

And do people genuinely think that the Star Wars license would be parked or scaled down to make room for an in-house Space theme? They're two entirely different things.

EXACTLY!!! 

So then, why does the Star Wars theme seem to be inhibiting Lego from giving us something totally fresh and different from Lucasfilm's tired old "pieces of junk" so to paraphrase Luke Skywalker? Seriously, it's getting reeeeally damn monotonous. 

Edited May 8, 2019 by Digger of Bricks

[Hive]

22 hours ago, TeriXeri said:

Still, Castle has had a lot more sets compared to Pirates, which only had 2 waves in 22 years. (I do not count licensed themes here)

 

The PoTC theme had some good sets though, for use with Pirates. I wouldn't have complained if that one had went on a bit longer.

[Aanchir]

5 hours ago, Digger of Bricks said:

So then, why does the Star Wars theme seem to be inhibiting Lego from giving us something totally fresh and different from Lucasfilm's tired old "pieces of junk" so to paraphrase Luke Skywalker?

Who says it does? Besides Benny's Space Squad, The LEGO Movie 2 features two different Space factions with their own fleet of vehicles. LEGO clearly isn't under any illusions that such sets aren't viable alongside Star Wars. There have also been entire futuristic themes that were so "fresh and different" that they broke away from conventional Space settings entirely, such as Ultra Agents and Nexo Knights.

To Classic Space fans, it's understandable that these space-adjacent sets and themes would be no substitute for "real" LEGO Space. But to kids whose preferences aren't informed so heavily by nostalgia, transplanting iconic sci-fi design elements into less conventional contexts could very easily help them to stand out even MORE from mainstream sci-fi flicks like Star Wars than they would if they were set on generic cratered landscapes under a generic starry sky.

So much of the concern about LEGO not having Space, Castle, and Pirates sets assumes that they would never go so long without these themes unless they somehow felt prevented from bringing them back. But it's just as possible that they recognize the possibility of bringing them back at any time, yet have consciously chosen to focus on new, different themes that they felt would bring more freshness to their portfolio at the time being.

In recent years we've seen plenty of people complaining about LEGO making too many mech sets, regardless of how different they look, how differently they're built, or how different the themes they belong to are. Has anybody here considered that to a younger LEGO fan without the same nostalgia for classic themes, having a whole bunch of spaceship-focused sets in Star Wars, Super Heroes, Iverwatch, City, The LEGO Movie 2, AND an in-house Space theme in the same year might feel just as redundant? To a classic Space fan the aesthetics of a "real" Space theme would make its sets feel worlds apart from any of those, but to a kid who just thinks of spaceships as a broad category, the same way so many old-school AFOLs think of mechs, yet another wave of space travel related sets might just feel like more of the same.

Edited May 8, 2019 by Aanchir

[Digger of Bricks]

4 hours ago, Aanchir said:

Who says it does? Besides Benny's Space Squad, The LEGO Movie 2 features two different Space factions with their own fleet of vehicles. LEGO clearly isn't under any illusions that such sets aren't viable alongside Star Wars. There have also been entire futuristic themes that were so "fresh and different" that they broke away from conventional Space settings entirely, such as Ultra Agents and Nexo Knights.

To Classic Space fans, it's understandable that these space-adjacent sets and themes would be no substitute for "real" LEGO Space. But to kids whose preferences aren't informed so heavily by nostalgia, transplanting iconic sci-fi design elements into less conventional contexts could very easily help them to stand out even MORE from mainstream sci-fi flicks like Star Wars than they would if they were set on generic cratered landscapes under a generic starry sky.

Personally, I feel like Nexo Knights in particular could've hypothetically been an actual Space theme if it weren't for Star Wars' seeming stake in the Space Opera realm of things. Believe me, I don't at all dislike Nexo Knights to any degree for that shortcoming (it is my favorite of the more recent System-based "big bang" playthemes), though I still strongly feel that Star Wars has to be a factor in at least inhibiting an in-house Space Fantasy/Opera-type of playtheme. For me, that unfortunately means I may never see a pulpy Space theme from Lego which would be more in the vein of Flash Gordon/Buck Rogers. 

But, beside that shortcoming, do you really feel pretty certain Star Wars isn't any more an all-out blockade for sci-fi heavy, in-house Space themes nowadays than it has been in the past? If so, what kinda Space theme do you feel would be able to slip past Star Wars without much overlapping conflict? Would the theme's premise, aesthetic, both, or some other element need to be the differing factor to help such an original theme help differentiate itself from Star Wars? 

[TeriXeri]

35 minutes ago, Digger of Bricks said:

But, beside that shortcoming, do you really feel pretty certain Star Wars isn't any more an all-out blockade for sci-fi heavy, in-house Space themes nowadays than it has been in the past? If so, what kinda Space theme do you feel would be able to slip past Star Wars without much overlapping conflict? Would the theme's premise, aesthetic, both, or some other element need to be the differing factor to help such an original theme help differentiate itself from Star Wars? 

Star Wars is really a lot about named characters, named ships/ship types, known planets, aliens, or just masses of "troops"

I think a more generic Space theme could work but might not get enough "hype" around it.

Pre Star Wars Space didn't really have names, or real combat factions like Star Wars.

Of course there were more sinister factions like Blacktron 1/2, Spyrius and UFO but that was long before the stud shooters or flick fire missiles etc. also some minifig tools like the megaphone or cameras could be seen as cannons or laser blasters, but again, choice for it to be a scanner, camera or tool.

Most older themes had Bases for Launching/Research/Processing or Monorails,  Space Police vs Spies and Thiefs.

Vehicles often had modules that could be taken off or re-arranged.

Insectoids was about gathering those magnetic crystals, and while it was said to be on a planet full of insects, they were just there in imagination, you could either consider the vehicles as insects, or as insect-disguised.

At the very least Space Police or Space Rescue seem logical to some point,  seeing how often Fire and Police sets are made. 

I know Space Police has been done 3 times, but I personally would love a more retro comeback if they did it, like 1 and 2, with the rough angles.

 

Edited May 9, 2019 by TeriXeri

[jimmynick]

We had Life on Mars and Mars Mission for a while and we had two (I think) waves of Space Police, then Alien Conquest and Galaxy Squad... there were the Neo-Classic Space and 3vil DTC sets way back when. There's lots of scope for a generic space-vehicles theme (and I rather liked the Space Police reboot) - the thing is these themes just haven't lasted very long.

On the other hand, maybe we're framing the question poorly: the overarching City theme goes through oodles of iterations, such as Fire, Arctic, Swamp, etc. but we still call them City. Can we criticize these subthemes for being mayflies?

[Digger of Bricks]

Just now, TeriXeri said:

Star Wars is really a lot about named characters, named ships/ship types, known planets, aliens, or just masses of "troops"

I think a more generic Space theme could work but might not get enough "hype" around it.

Pre Star Wars Space didn't really have names, or real combat factions like Star Wars.

Of course there were more sinister factions like Blacktron 1/2, Spyrius and UFO but that was long before the stud shooters or flick fire missiles etc. also some minifig tools like the megaphone or cameras could be seen as cannons or laser blasters, but again, choice for it to be a scanner, camera or tool.

Most older themes had Bases for Launching/Research/Processing or Monorails,  Space Police vs Spies and Thiefs.

Insectoids was about gathering those magnetic crystals, and while it was said to be on a planet full of insects, they were just there in imagination, you could either consider the vehicles as insects, or as insect-disguised.

All that I think is needed for a non-conflicting Space theme is a much more colorful, less rigid aesthetic and an exploration-based premise that isn't entrenched in Star Wars' heavy good vs. evil themes and tropes.  Simply put, more like Star Trek, less like Star Wars. 

[TeriXeri]

21 minutes ago, Digger of Bricks said:

All that I think is needed for a non-conflicting Space theme is a much more colorful, less rigid aesthetic and an exploration-based premise that isn't entrenched in Star Wars' heavy good vs. evil themes and tropes.  Simply put, more like Star Trek, less like Star Wars. 

Bright Transparent color schemes made the old space themes really unique before Star Wars even appeared.

And I think some of the "Space" feel of Nexo Knights could be attributed to the bright Trans Neon Orange, even the last wave with the Trans-Bright green had some space feel, year 2 monsters not so much.

LEGO has shown they can make modernized style Space vehicles like Benny's, Systar Starship, the Rex vehicles and the Party Bus that combine contrast with a nice use of a transparent color.

And they really stand out compared to the more dulled colors from Star Wars in most cases.

In Star Wars the transparent colors are often seen in the blasters/lasers and it doesn't usually have the bright cockpit windows. Kind of like Town used just Trans-Clear and Trans-Light Blue for the majority of sets, Star Wars mostly uses Trans-Clear and Trans-Black.

Even on non-Space theme, a different color layout can mean a different appeal.

Agents 2008 and Ultra Agents 2014 both had big mobile Truck based headquarters , both similar, yet very different due to the colors.

 

 

 

Edited May 9, 2019 by TeriXeri

[MAB]

21 hours ago, Digger of Bricks said:

 

So then, why does the Star Wars theme seem to be inhibiting Lego from giving us something totally fresh and different from Lucasfilm's tired old "pieces of junk" so to paraphrase Luke Skywalker? Seriously, it's getting reeeeally damn monotonous. 

1

It isn't. The reason we are not getting Classic Space sets is that LEGO isn't making them, it's their decision. Whether it is because they consider that they overlap with SW,  or they think they are not marketable these days, or there is no demand from kids, or that they prefer to do new in-house themes rather than going back to old, only they know.

[Digger of Bricks]

15 minutes ago, MAB said:

It isn't. The reason we are not getting Classic Space sets is that LEGO isn't making them, it's their decision. Whether it is because they consider that they overlap with SW,  or they think they are not marketable these days, or there is no demand from kids, or that they prefer to do new in-house themes rather than going back to old, only they know.

Come on, you must know I'm talking about in-house Space themes overall, not just stylistic retreads of Classic Space & Company.  Not everyone who clamors for in-house Space themes is that stuck in the past. 

[MAB]

2 minutes ago, Digger of Bricks said:

Come on, you must know I'm talking about in-house Space themes overall, not just stylistic retreads of Classic Space & Company.  Not everyone who clamors for in-house Space themes is that stuck in the past. 

I imagine the reason is the same though. They aren't making them as they don't want to make them, for whatever reason.

If they decide that a theme such as Star Wars is no longer popular enough, then I think that this would not be good for LEGO space. If spaceships don't sell, then they won't make more spaceships. Whether under the SW brand, another license or in-house.

 

I imagine the reason for not having space exploration or moonbase type sets is that they overlap too much with other themes, not necessarily SW. For example, there is a lot coming in City:

 

To me, this type of theme overlaps more with Classic Space, or Galaxy Squad, or any other possible in-house space theme more than Star Wars does.

 

[JJ Tong (zfogshooterz)]

On 5/8/2019 at 2:13 PM, Digger of Bricks said:

Well, whoever's trilogy it may be, the least I can hope for from it is a fresh aesthetic that doesn't include tired retreads of the same ol' X-Wings, TIE Fighters, Corellian Freighter, and the such. I mean, damnit, I'd like to see something a little more colorful and pulpy from their spacecraft, kinda more in the vein of Flash Gordon and the MCU's Guardians of the Galaxy! While I know we'd never see colored canopies from Star Wars in the same capacity Lego's in-house Space themes have given us (something I care even more for from Classic Space & Company than just the minifigures those themes offer), couldn't Disney at least give us more spacecraft akin to the MCU's Milano, for instance? 

 

I definitely agree! One of the main reason on why I'd prefer stuff from Rebels or The Clone Wars rather than those from the recent movies. The two series has more creative looking ships, I'd say.

Edited May 9, 2019 by Peppermint_M
Please don't quote pictures

[Digger of Bricks]

7 minutes ago, MAB said:

I imagine the reason for not having space exploration or moonbase type sets is that they overlap too much with other themes, not necessarily SW. For example, there is a lot coming in City:

To me, this type of theme overlaps more with Classic Space, or Galaxy Squad, or any other possible in-house space theme more than Star Wars does.

If so, then Star Wars shouldn't be an inhibitor for a more sci-fi heavy Space Exploration/Adventure playtheme (the way I see it, like I said earlier, hypothetical Space Fantasy/Opera in-house playthemes would be in closer conflict with Star Wars than something more akin to Star Trek) after this City subtheme bows out, right? Subthemes like that typically stick around for only a summer for a single wave, and as far as we've seen, they return in some other form four years later.

Just now, JJ Tong (zfogshooterz) said:

I definitely agree! One of the main reason on why I'd prefer stuff from Rebels or The Clone Wars rather than those from the recent movies. The two series has more creative looking ships, I'd say.

Not to mention, Star Wars: Resistance's starfighters! Those I do kinda dig!  

[TeriXeri]

I was surprised to see trans-orange color scheme for the Endgame quinjet, but that's been an exception to most Licensed ships. 

But design wise, I like something more basic like the Captain Marvel Quinjet, the studs and angles make it look more like LEGO to me, at 1/3 the price.

I do like the shape of the Spider-Man Far From Home jet as well.

That said, I have no desire for any of those licenses/figures so other sets are on a much higher priority.

Edited May 9, 2019 by TeriXeri

[MAB]

1 hour ago, Digger of Bricks said:

If so, then Star Wars shouldn't be an inhibitor for a more sci-fi heavy Space Exploration/Adventure playtheme (the way I see it, like I said earlier, hypothetical Space Fantasy/Opera in-house playthemes would be in closer conflict with Star Wars than something more akin to Star Trek) after this City subtheme bows out, right? Subthemes like that typically stick around for only a summer for a single wave, and as far as we've seen, they return in some other form four years later.

4

We know they are willing to do "real" space as seen in City (and the even more real Saturn V) against SW - the proof is that they do City sets like that. But we don't know whether doing SW stops them doing a space exploration theme. The fact they haven't (at least since Galaxy Squad, Alien Conquest, etc) could mean that they think Star Wars has their fantasy Space needs covered, or it could mean that they don't think themes like that are worth doing as much as the themes they bring out instead. Just because SW doesn't inhibit something doesn't mean it will be made. Similarly, just because something is not made, it doesn't mean SW is inhibiting it.

[Aanchir]

14 hours ago, Digger of Bricks said:

Personally, I feel like Nexo Knights in particular could've hypothetically been an actual Space theme if it weren't for Star Wars' seeming stake in the Space Opera realm of things. Believe me, I don't at all dislike Nexo Knights to any degree for that shortcoming (it is my favorite of the more recent System-based "big bang" playthemes), though I still strongly feel that Star Wars has to be a factor in at least inhibiting an in-house Space Fantasy/Opera-type of playtheme. For me, that unfortunately means I may never see a pulpy Space theme from Lego which would be more in the vein of Flash Gordon/Buck Rogers. 

But, beside that shortcoming, do you really feel pretty certain Star Wars isn't any more an all-out blockade for sci-fi heavy, in-house Space themes nowadays than it has been in the past? If so, what kinda Space theme do you feel would be able to slip past Star Wars without much overlapping conflict? Would the theme's premise, aesthetic, both, or some other element need to be the differing factor to help such an original theme help differentiate itself from Star Wars? 

I think that’s the wrong question. It’s safe to assume that most of the variety of Space-ish motifs and subject matter we’ve seen in The LEGO Movie 2, Ideas, Nexo Knights, Super Heroes,  City, etc. could just as easily be featured in a “real” Space theme. And in the future, they might be. But there wouldn’t be much incentive to develop a new Space theme around them if these same sorts of subjects and motifs showed as much potential or more in a different theme/genre, which is what I suspect has been the case in recent years.

 

[JJ Tong (zfogshooterz)]

7 hours ago, Digger of Bricks said:

Not to mention, Star Wars: Resistance's starfighters! Those I do kinda dig!  

 

Oh yeah! I really gotta check that series out! They do seem to be pretty neat!

Edited May 9, 2019 by Peppermint_M
Please don't quote pictures, thanks

[danth]

22 hours ago, Digger of Bricks said:

All that I think is needed for a non-conflicting Space theme is a much more colorful, less rigid aesthetic and an exploration-based premise that isn't entrenched in Star Wars' heavy good vs. evil themes and tropes.

We need a Friends version of Space. :)

To anyone who doubts Star Wars gets in the way of non-licensed Space sets, here are the facts, mostly copied from a past post of mine:

The first year ever, after 20+ steady years, that there were no Lego Space sets was 2000. This was immediately after the first ever Star Wars sets in 1999. Then, in 2001 when Space sets returned, they were on Mars. A real world in our very own solar system. Not deep space, not out in the galaxy. Not anything that could be confused with Star Wars. Then nothing for six years while Star Wars movies were in theaters.

Finally, in 2007 we got Lego Space sets again. On Mars...again. And just in time not to compete with the Revenge of the Sith sets.

Then we get pretty steady Lego Space on the shelves until 2014. Guess what happens the year after? The Force Awakens. 

All evidence points to some non-competition strategy to keep in-house Space sets off the shelves when there are Star Wars movies being made. 

[Aanchir]

1 hour ago, danth said:

We need a Friends version of Space. :)

To anyone who doubts Star Wars gets in the way of non-licensed Space sets, here are the facts, mostly copied from a past post of mine:

The first year ever, after 20+ steady years, that there were no Lego Space sets was 2000. This was immediately after the first ever Star Wars sets in 1999. Then, in 2001 when Space sets returned, they were on Mars. A real world in our very own solar system. Not deep space, not out in the galaxy. Not anything that could be confused with Star Wars. Then nothing for six years while Star Wars movies were in theaters.

Finally, in 2007 we got Lego Space sets again. On Mars...again. And just in time not to compete with the Revenge of the Sith sets.

Then we get pretty steady Lego Space on the shelves until 2014. Guess what happens the year after? The Force Awakens. 

All evidence points to some non-competition strategy to keep in-house Space sets off the shelves when there are Star Wars movies being made. 

I definitely agree with this assessment that LEGO has specifically avoided in-house space themes during ongoing Star Wars trilogies. The point I'm trying to make, though, is that all the other incidental Space stuff they've made in the meantime shows that they're making a CHOICE to focus on other types of sci-fi themes, and they're not beholden to some non-compete clause that would outright prevent them from making space sets.

It's less "we can't make a new Space theme" and more "we could, but haven't felt a need to as long as we've had so many other less Star Wars-ish theme categories to choose from."

I understand that this might seem like splitting hairs, but stuff like The LEGO Movie 2 is why I think it matters. If there were a non-compete clause broadly defined enough to rule out any new Space theme, then it would almost certainly rule out all those other spaceship-related sets from other themes. The fact that it doesn't means that LEGO remains free to release future sets and themes in a space setting, even if they aren't specifically developing them to answer the question of "how should we bring back LEGO Space?"

Maybe Cartoon Network Studios will partner with them to make a cartoon about Benny the Spaceman. Maybe their next play theme aimed at the same girls 7-and-up audience as LEGO Elves will have an extraterrestrial setting. I just feel like it's nice to know those and other possibilities I might not even be able to imagine are still on the table.

Edited May 10, 2019 by Aanchir

[tafkatb]

19 minutes ago, Aanchir said:

Maybe their next play theme aimed at the same girls 7-and-up audience as LEGO Elves will have an extraterrestrial setting.

Having finally just seen The LEGO Movie 2, I have to say I would be super into this.

[icm]

6 hours ago, danth said:

... in 2001 when Space sets returned, they were on Mars. A real world in our very own solar system. Not deep space, not out in the galaxy. ...

Finally, in 2007 we got Lego Space sets again. On Mars...again.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, just for the sake of keeping the conversation going: while I agree with your comments on the timing of in-house Space subthemes of the past twenty years, I really don't think the choice to set the 2001 and 2007 subthemes on Mars has anything to do with Star Wars.  Two big-budget movies were set on Mars in 2001, Red Planet and Mission to Mars.  Lego cashed in on that by setting its own Space theme on Mars, with a spaceship (7315 Solar Explorer) that bears more than a passing resemblance to the spaceship in Mission to Mars, while the spacesuits look like those in Red Planet.  Besides, the Mars Odyssey spacecraft was launched in 2001 and arrived at Mars later in 2001, and there was a lot of chatter in the air about real-world space exploration and progress or lack of progress therein because it was the year of the great classic 2001: A Space Odyssey.  If Lego was to do an in-house Space theme that year, Mars was the natural place to go, whether or not Star Wars had anything to say about it.  In 2007 they were still re-launching old themes after the crisis, and Space was the last to get re-launched.  So they went with a Mars theme because it was familiar and easy to brand on the shelves, plus there's a long history of pulpy sci-fi about fighting Martians.  This year, we get a very diverse assortment of non-Star Wars spaceships visiting all sorts of strange new worlds, with imaginative designs, fun play features, bold colors, and new colors of windscreens, but their association with a film released in cinemas blinds all of us grumpy old AFOLs to the fact that this is the in-house Space theme we've been waiting for since 2013.  And it only took an eighteen-month gap in Star Wars films for Lego to sneak it in there ....

Edited May 10, 2019 by icm

[x105Black]

Trolls World Tour, probably.

[Robianco]

I'm just not getting the whole 'They should stop Star Wars because I want Classic Space' argument. Let's say they do stop it. They end the license agreement and stop selling Star Wars. Let's put an end to Harry Potter and rule out any Lord of the Rings type stuff in favour of Classic Castle. No Pirates of the Caribbean stuff in favour of Classic Pirate.
May as well get rid of Super Heroes stuff in favour of developing their own in-house hero based license then. So no Star Wars, Harry Potter, Marvel, DC or any other licensed stuff as I'm sure there could be an in house license that these could all be replaced with. Do people think that would work? I'm sure there would be quite a few people from AFOL forums around the world who would be delighted. These rest of the Lego buying public? The other 90% of them? Maybe not so much.

Lego stores aren't populated entirely with AFOL's wanting classic themes and grumpily shuffling through SW stuff hoping for some Blacktron. It's a toy. The licenses and themes are what helps in keeping people moving through the doors in the numbers that they do. City is always popular... It's basically the Lego world with sets from pocket money price to main Christmas gift price. But City incorporates the exploration themes as well as the fire/police/office themes too now and that includes Space. The biggest selling Lego set of last year was Hogwarts Great Hall. If that was a Classic Castle building would it have performed as well? Probably not. It would have been well received but maybe not topped the charts. The odd item like the Lego Movie sets do well as novelties... but as a full theme? Didn't the Ideas set of the Mech with green Classic Space figures struggle to sell and end up on clearance?

The licenses are here to stay. As long as they sell well. They're an integral part of what keeps people buying Lego and brings new people through the door each and every day. But you only have to look at used lots for sale on marketplaces or eBay... Kids mix stuff up, they know it's a building toy. They knock stuff down and build whatever they want. I don't believe they get hung up on whether a theme is strictly 'Classic' Lego enough. 

Lego has endured as a product but it's had it's moments of near collapse. They've had to adapt and have done it in the most spectacular way by now sitting at the top of the toy world. The licenses they now hold and the relationship with those license holders are now an important part of what keeps them there.