Themes LEGO should discontinue

[Witold]

I'm happy the Nexo will be discontinued. Hope they will back with their knights and castle designs to the more classical ideas.

[Aanchir]

1 hour ago, Witold said:

I'm happy the Nexo will be discontinued. Hope they will back with their knights and castle designs to the more classical ideas.

Nexo Knights is already discontinued for all intents and purposes. As successful as it was, it was neither expected nor intended to last forever.

I suspect Classic Castle fans will still find something to complain about with whatever comes next, though, regardless of what it looks like. They always have.

[Witold]

8 hours ago, Aanchir said:

I suspect Classic Castle fans will still find something to complain about with whatever comes next, though, regardless of what it looks like. They always have.

Probably you are right here :D

[leafan]

18 hours ago, Aanchir said:

Nexo Knights is already discontinued for all intents and purposes. As successful as it was, it was neither expected nor intended to last forever.

I suspect Classic Castle fans will still find something to complain about with whatever comes next, though, regardless of what it looks like. They always have.

Bit of a generalisation there.

Speaking for myself, I'll be happy with any Castle theme that stays in tune with any previous wave, with the exception of perhaps Knights Kingdom II, although even that had it's moments.

[Aanchir]

2 hours ago, leafan said:

Bit of a generalisation there.

Speaking for myself, I'll be happy with any Castle theme that stays in tune with any previous wave, with the exception of perhaps Knights Kingdom II, although even that had it's moments.

I mean, I don't intend to imply that ALL Classic Castle fans will hate whatever comes next, but I have yet to see any Castle theme (or any theme at all, really) that hasn't had a good portion of old-school AFOLs moaning about it being horrible/rubbish/childish/making them want to vomit upon being revealed. As shocking as it might seem today, some of the comments about themes that today seem to be fondly remembered like Fantasy Era and Kingdoms can be just as vicious and ornery as many of those made about themes like Legends of Chima, Elves, and Nexo Knights in more recent years.

I think this is part of the answer to the often-asked question of why LEGO doesn't listen to AFOLs — even when they do get loud feedback, it's often full of mixed messages that make it very difficult to turn into a substantive action plan.

Plus, as designers have discovered, a lot of the time the initial outrage about a new set or theme is just a knee-jerk reaction that mellows out before long — I've lately been hearing a LOT of Power Miners nostalgia among AFOLs lately, even though ten years ago many people here on Eurobricks saw it as kiddy nonsense that summed up everything wrong with modern LEGO. And as Jamie Berard points out here, the Fire Brigade (another standout product from 10 years ago) generated about as much vitriol as the Downtown Diner did, despite being one of the most beloved Modular Buildings to date and one of the ones that was the most current modular building collectors' first taste of the series.

In general, especially when people have spent a lot of time speculating and wishing for what they want to see in a future theme, it can take time for people to let go of some of the very specific expectations they built up enough to recognize the strengths of a theme that does NOT fulfill all those particular criteria. So a negative initial reaction is rarely a strong indicator of how a theme will end up being remembered.

[MAB]

11 hours ago, Aanchir said:

I mean, I don't intend to imply that ALL Classic Castle fans will hate whatever comes next, but I have yet to see any Castle theme (or any theme at all, really) that hasn't had a good portion of old-school AFOLs moaning about it being horrible/rubbish/childish/making them want to vomit upon being revealed. As shocking as it might seem today, some of the comments about themes that today seem to be fondly remembered like Fantasy Era and Kingdoms can be just as vicious and ornery as many of those made about themes like Legends of Chima, Elves, and Nexo Knights in more recent years.

 

Indeed, the same thing goes on about Star Wars sets, they are too big or too small,  or too similar to past ones, or too different to past ones so now don't look like the source material. Or the minifigures are just the same as in the last set, or they changed the design and now they don't match the ones in the last set.

It happened with LOTR as well. Weathertop was dismissed as being too small, the Mines of Moria wasn't a mine, it was just some walls. The Uruk-Hai army wasn't even that, it was just a piece of a wall to be added to Helm's Deep. And so on.

[TeriXeri]

For me, the main thing that would set a Castle theme apart from like Nexo Knights would be a main focus back on structures and locations.

The Harry Potter line has the concept of connecting multiple sets with technic pins, and Creator 3-in-1 is bringing back that concept a bit as well.

And even to a lesser extent, connectivity of modules is also present in the 2019 fire station / dock.

I would love a re-imagined version of 80s style Castle where you could connect multiple wall pieces/towers and such together, and possibly even get multiples of the same set by not specializing them too much.

Also the 80s really had quite a few horses in sets.

And while the 80s did have vehicles in sets, for the Siege sets, there was a part of a wall included you could connect to form a bigger castle with other sets.

 

Also there were modules that focused more on jobs, like Armor shop, Blacksmith Shop, and Guarded Inn.

Edited May 2, 2019 by TeriXeri

[Lyichir]

1 hour ago, TeriXeri said:

For me, the main thing that would set a Castle theme apart from like Nexo Knights would be a main focus back on structures and locations.

The Harry Potter line has the concept of connecting multiple sets with technic pins, and Creator 3-in-1 is bringing back that concept a bit as well.

And even to a lesser extent, connectivity of modules is also present in the 2019 fire station / dock.

I would love a re-imagined version of 80s style Castle where you could connect multiple wall pieces/towers and such together, and possibly even get multiples of the same set by not specializing them too much.

Also the 80s really had quite a few horses in sets.

And while the 80s did have vehicles in sets, for the Siege sets, there was a part of a wall included you could connect to form a bigger castle with other sets.

 

Also there were modules that focused more on jobs, like Armor shop, Blacksmith Shop, and Guarded Inn.

I can definitely agree with that perspective—as someone who was actually a fan of Nexo Knights, one of my regrets about the theme is that hardly any of the awesome sci-fi castles, colosseums, and villages made their way into sets. I didn't mind the sets we did end up getting (including a bunch of awesome siege engines, mechs, etc.), but that didn't take the disappointment out of the ones we didn't.

[MAB]

There were some locations: Knighton Castle, Volcano Lair, Fortrex (OK, strictly this is moveable, but it is a castle). There were also some smaller locations, such as the library and this one:

 

Which to me is somewhat similar to regular smaller Castle sets of the past, and repeated throughout many themes, along the lines of mainly action with a little bit of scenery. Such as:

 

 

 

 

[danth]

On 4/30/2019 at 5:12 PM, Aanchir said:

I suspect Classic Castle fans will still find something to complain about with whatever comes next, though, regardless of what it looks like. They always have.

I believe this describes fans of anything. 

[Lyichir]

1 hour ago, MAB said:

There were some locations: Knighton Castle, Volcano Lair, Fortrex (OK, strictly this is moveable, but it is a castle). There were also some smaller locations, such as the library and this one:

Which to me is somewhat similar to regular smaller Castle sets of the past, and repeated throughout many themes, along the lines of mainly action with a little bit of scenery. Such as:

Oh, I know there were some nice location sets and assorted bits of scenery. But having watched at least the first season of the show, I was disappointed that we never saw a set like the Knighton Colosseum (one of the first settings shown in the story, and one I almost expected to see in a set given how many previous Castle themes have offered sets of tournaments or jousts), the Knights' Academy, or the various towns and villages the knights defend from Jestro and Monstrox. The Castle/Sci-Fi blend that Nexo Knights offered appealed greatly to me, and I can't help but wished the sets themselves had done more to build out that world instead of mostly emphasizing vehicles for the knights and their enemies.

This isn't a criticism that's exclusive to Nexo Knights. There have been a lot of themes over the years that I've been a fan of that have featured excellent worldbuilding that, for one reason or another, never really manifested as effectively as I'd like in the sets themselves. I understand why that trend exists (vehicles and characters are generally more versatile and exciting for kids' play than fixed locations), but it still sometimes strikes me as missed potential nonetheless.

I think this is a part of why I was such a huge fan of the Elves theme, which consistently featured gorgeous, highly detailed settings across the majority of its sets.

[TeriXeri]

2 hours ago, MAB said:

There were some locations: Knighton Castle, Volcano Lair, Fortrex (OK, strictly this is moveable, but it is a castle). There were also some smaller locations, such as the library and this one

I know there were 3 big castles, a library, small stone tower (Lance vs Lightning set) "living tower" on wheels (in Knighton Castle set), and a small Tree outpost (Aaron's Stone Destroyer set), I have all those sets

I do have the "build your own adventure" Nexo Knight book as well and it does show some custom locations inspired by the Knights and Stone Monsters.

That said, the theme ended, I really enjoyed it, even the vehicles, it was a unique theme neither pure Castle, or Sci-Fi but a bit of both and more, it got me back into LEGO after 15 years. 

At some point I'll probably make my own creations from them, in the end it's still LEGO.

Edited May 2, 2019 by TeriXeri

[x105Black]

On 4/30/2019 at 6:45 PM, Witold said:

I'm happy the Nexo will be discontinued. Hope they will back with their knights and castle designs to the more classical ideas.

Same.

[Hive]

As a fan of classic Castle (and Pirates), I'm one of those who've felt a bit abandoned by LEGO in recent years. Nexo Knights was certainly not to my tastes, though it did have some interesting figures for those amassing colorful fantasy armies. I was not pleased by the last real Castle theme (from 2013), and it didn't help that it was only a handful of sets in a throwaway wave. The last Pirates entry I liked a lot more, but again: it lasted just the one wave. Did I, and other fans of these themes complain? Yes, sure. But  even so, I find it unfair to label us as chronic complainers. It's easy for fans of themes are allowed to run for years to tell us to just enjoy our scraps.

For several years, those two themes were all I was interested in. Whenever I bought a non-Castle or non-Pirates set, it was for the purpose of fitting either the entire set or, in most cases, bricks/figures into Castle or Pirates. Only once I got into Modulars and Creator 3-in-1 was I suddenly able to enjoy more than a handful sets per year.

And it's frustrating to be Castle and Pirates fans, because all we're handed is, really, scraps. We get a small anniversary figure, we get a collectible minifigure, we get a pirate rollercoaste... imagine if that was all Star Wars fans got. And when we look at Playmobil and their continued offerings into the same genres, treating those themes as evergreens... when we see LEGO launch something as inheritly silly and niche as Forma while still not deeming Castle or Pirates worthy of releases... yes, it's easy to get a bit bitter. Can you really blame us?

When all that is said and done, though, I have no wish or expectation for LEGO to cancel a succesful theme. The only circumstances under which LEGO should cancel themes are when they no longer sell or they run out of ideas for them; and only LEGO themselves really knows when that happens.

[Aanchir]

9 hours ago, Hive said:

As a fan of classic Castle (and Pirates), I'm one of those who've felt a bit abandoned by LEGO in recent years. Nexo Knights was certainly not to my tastes, though it did have some interesting figures for those amassing colorful fantasy armies. I was not pleased by the last real Castle theme (from 2013), and it didn't help that it was only a handful of sets in a throwaway wave. The last Pirates entry I liked a lot more, but again: it lasted just the one wave. Did I, and other fans of these themes complain? Yes, sure. But  even so, I find it unfair to label us as chronic complainers. It's easy for fans of themes are allowed to run for years to tell us to just enjoy our scraps.

For several years, those two themes were all I was interested in. Whenever I bought a non-Castle or non-Pirates set, it was for the purpose of fitting either the entire set or, in most cases, bricks/figures into Castle or Pirates. Only once I got into Modulars and Creator 3-in-1 was I suddenly able to enjoy more than a handful sets per year.

And it's frustrating to be Castle and Pirates fans, because all we're handed is, really, scraps. We get a small anniversary figure, we get a collectible minifigure, we get a pirate rollercoaste... imagine if that was all Star Wars fans got. And when we look at Playmobil and their continued offerings into the same genres, treating those themes as evergreens... when we see LEGO launch something as inheritly silly and niche as Forma while still not deeming Castle or Pirates worthy of releases... yes, it's easy to get a bit bitter. Can you really blame us?

When all that is said and done, though, I have no wish or expectation for LEGO to cancel a succesful theme. The only circumstances under which LEGO should cancel themes are when they no longer sell or they run out of ideas for them; and only LEGO themselves really knows when that happens.

I absolutely do respect the frustration people have when a theme they love only lasts a short while. And I can even relate to an extent… while some of my favorite themes over the years (Bionicle G1, Hero Factory, Ninjago, Elves, etc) lasted several years, many others (Life on Mars, Agents, Power Miners, Space Police 3, Atlantis, Bionicle G2, etc) lasted only a year or two.

What’s more, the Castle theme itself had a near-constant presence from 2004 to 2013, and likewise for the Space theme from 2007 to 2013. But even during that time, there was a frequent refrain that many of those incarnations weren’t “real” Castle or Space themes.

And it’s not even as though the years these themes were active were free of vindictive or condescending attitudes towards other non-classic themes they coexisted with. Consider this post, for example: 

And since 2013, a lot of complaints I’ve heard have not just been that these themes should get “more than scraps”, but that these themes should have a CONSTANT presence, and that other more current or recent themes (from huge long-runners like Ninjago or Friends to small, short-lived themes like Unikitty, Boost, Forma, and the Angry Birds Movie) are garbage that LEGO shouldn’t be wasting their time on. At that point, when even the type of “scraps” that were such a disappointment to Castle and Pirates themes are treated as more than other, newer themes deserve, it starts to feel less like legitimate frustration and more like unchecked entitlement.

I appreciate that you seem to have a healthier and less self-centered attitude about these frustrations than many people do, but please understand that those of us who grow weary of newer themes we enjoy being treated like rubbish just because they’re NOT classic castle/pirates/space also have legitimate reasons for our frustrations.

I personally love to speculate about what could be next for themes like Castle, Pirates, and Space, because they were a big part of my own childhood. I have spent lots of time on LDD sketching up visions of potential sets within these themes. And sometimes, as with other fans, my ideas are informed by where I feel like past versions of these themes fell short. While I find it grating when people employ “no true Scotsman” arguments to suggest that themes like Life on Mars, Mars Mission, Space Police 3, and Alien Conquest aren’t “real” LEGO Space, I don’t by any means think being a fan of a theme should mean not acknowledging its flaws or the areas in which it could use improvement.

But even so, it sometimes feels like other fans of these themes bear a grudge against me simply for daring to enjoy things about themes like Elves, Ninjago, or Nexo Knights (like them having beds, baths, dining tables for the protagonists, varied hues, female action heroes, brick-built creatures, and/or character-driven storylines) and suggesting traditional Castle sets could take a few pages from their book.

It creates an atmosphere where it feels like I can’t be respected as a fellow Castle fan with legitimate ideas of where the theme could go next unless I am willing to denounce any theme that isn’t “real” Castle, and by extension, denounce all the things that set other themes apart from “real” Castle as fundamental weaknesses.

Edited May 5, 2019 by Aanchir

[Lego David]

9 hours ago, Hive said:

As a fan of classic Castle (and Pirates), I'm one of those who've felt a bit abandoned by LEGO in recent years. Nexo Knights was certainly not to my tastes, though it did have some interesting figures for those amassing colorful fantasy armies. I was not pleased by the last real Castle theme (from 2013), and it didn't help that it was only a handful of sets in a throwaway wave. The last Pirates entry I liked a lot more, but again: it lasted just the one wave. Did I, and other fans of these themes complain? Yes, sure. But  even so, I find it unfair to label us as chronic complainers. It's easy for fans of themes are allowed to run for years to tell us to just enjoy our scraps.

For several years, those two themes were all I was interested in. Whenever I bought a non-Castle or non-Pirates set, it was for the purpose of fitting either the entire set or, in most cases, bricks/figures into Castle or Pirates. Only once I got into Modulars and Creator 3-in-1 was I suddenly able to enjoy more than a handful sets per year.

And it's frustrating to be Castle and Pirates fans, because all we're handed is, really, scraps. We get a small anniversary figure, we get a collectible minifigure, we get a pirate rollercoaste... imagine if that was all Star Wars fans got. And when we look at Playmobil and their continued offerings into the same genres, treating those themes as evergreens... when we see LEGO launch something as inheritly silly and niche as Forma while still not deeming Castle or Pirates worthy of releases... yes, it's easy to get a bit bitter. Can you really blame us?

When all that is said and done, though, I have no wish or expectation for LEGO to cancel a succesful theme. The only circumstances under which LEGO should cancel themes are when they no longer sell or they run out of ideas for them; and only LEGO themselves really knows when that happens.

I agree with pretty much everything that was said in this post.

[TeriXeri]

So because I liked Nexo Knights, I am not a true Castle fan or something?

 

I was in a Dark age from 2000-2016 and looking back, the Castle lineup doesn't look so bad to me.

Of course LEGO style in many themes was somewhat different between around 1997 until the mid 2000s , some themes being completely non-existent between 2001-2003 (not counting Legend sets), but that was a dark period for LEGO themselves.

Pirates have been scarce but I still don't see bad sets in both 2009 and 2015 offerings.

Space might have had more sets then Pirates but imo has been the weakest one of the 3 "big in-house themes" between 2001-2013.

This is just my personal view looking back at sets after a 15 year period of a break, where Nexo Knights had the right launch wave of sets to interest me back into LEGO and keep me there now, I just moved on toward mostly Creator 3-in-1 and some City.

 

Edited May 5, 2019 by TeriXeri

[MAB]

On 5/5/2019 at 7:44 AM, Hive said:

And it's frustrating to be Castle and Pirates fans, because all we're handed is, really, scraps. We get a small anniversary figure, we get a collectible minifigure, we get a pirate rollercoaste... imagine if that was all Star Wars fans got. And when we look at Playmobil and their continued offerings into the same genres, treating those themes as evergreens... when we see LEGO launch something as inheritly silly and niche as Forma while still not deeming Castle or Pirates worthy of releases... yes, it's easy to get a bit bitter. Can you really blame us?

5

Why would Star Wars (or any major licensed theme)  only get a figure here or there, or a single set per year? That is not how licenses work. LEGO makes money off the licenses by selling large volumes of sets. Why do you think Forma is niche and inherently silly? Is it acceptable for fans of Forma to call Pirates and Castle niche and silly?

[Hive]

On 5/5/2019 at 7:37 PM, TeriXeri said:

So because I liked Nexo Knights, I am not a true Castle fan or something?

Who claimed that?

6 hours ago, MAB said:

Why would Star Wars (or any major licensed theme)  only get a figure here or there, or a single set per year? That is not how licenses work. LEGO makes money off the licenses by selling large volumes of sets. Why do you think Forma is niche and inherently silly? Is it acceptable for fans of Forma to call Pirates and Castle niche and silly?

I'm not trying to argue that it would be a realistic setup for Star Wars, you're completely missing my point.

Whether or not Forma is silly is, of course, arguable and depending on taste. But even the most die-hard fan of Forma certainly cannot argue against it being niche in any kind of serious manner.

And yes, it's perfectly accceptable for fans of Forma or any other team to call Pirates and Castle for "silly", if that's how they feel. It's really not a big deal, it's not like it's a harsh and insulting word. Why are you hell bent on trying to stirr something up here? I really don't think what I said could be considered to be controversial.

[TeriXeri]

4 hours ago, Hive said:

Who claimed that?

Nobody specific, but read Aanchir's post, it's sometimes how I feel as well, when Nexo Knights and Castle are mentioned in the same subject.

It's like the one theme I keep reading "I'm glad it ended" , while that's perfectly reasonable, on the other hand I keep reading "2013 Castle was terrible" as well...

Still, Castle has had a lot more sets compared to Pirates, which only had 2 waves in 22 years. (I do not count licensed themes here)

On 5/5/2019 at 6:16 PM, Aanchir said:

 

But even so, it sometimes feels like other fans of these themes bear a grudge against me simply for daring to enjoy things about themes like Elves, Ninjago, or Nexo Knights (like them having beds, baths, dining tables for the protagonists, varied hues, female action heroes, brick-built creatures, and/or character-driven storylines) and suggesting traditional Castle sets could take a few pages from their book.

It creates an atmosphere where it feels like I can’t be respected as a fellow Castle fan with legitimate ideas of where the theme could go next unless I am willing to denounce any theme that isn’t “real” Castle, and by extension, denounce all the things that set other themes apart from “real” Castle as fundamental weaknesses.

 

Edited May 7, 2019 by TeriXeri

[Digger of Bricks]

On 4/14/2019 at 8:08 PM, Artanis I said:

On 4/14/2019 at 2:05 PM, Digger of Bricks said:

Bloomberg - Star Wars Movies Will Take a Break After Episode IX, Disney Says

THANK THE MAKER

On 4/14/2019 at 11:40 PM, Lego David said:

THANK YOU GOD!!! FINALLY AT LEAST A LITTLE BREAK!!!

Oh boy, looks like it won't a very long break (if you can even call it a break)... 

Screen Rant - Star Wars Sets Pre-Christmas Release Dates For 2022, 2024 & 2026

Quote

Disney has released an updated release calendar for the next several years, following its purchase of Fox's assets in March. As part of the announcement, the studio revealed plans to release three untitled Star Wars films on the pre-Christmas weekend every other year beginning in 2022 (namely, December 16, 2022; December 20, 2024; and December 18, 2026). That means the Star Wars movies will be going on a prolonged three-year break after The Rise of Skywalker becomes the fifth Star Wars film released in as many years, starting in 2015.

 

[TeriXeri]

7 minutes ago, Digger of Bricks said:

Oh boy, looks like it won't a very long break (if you can even call it a break)... 

Not that I am hoping for delays, they can still happen.

Looking at Fantastic Beasts 3, which recently got pushed back all the way to November 2021.

While I hope that could give in-house Space some breathing room, that's just speculation at this point.

Edited May 7, 2019 by TeriXeri

[Digger of Bricks]

1 hour ago, TeriXeri said:

Not that I am hoping for delays, they can still happen.

Looking at Fantastic Beasts 3, which recently got pushed back all the way to November 2021.

While I hope that could give in-house Space some breathing room, that's just speculation at this point.

Ideally, I was hoping this "cinematic hiatus" of theirs was going to last at least six years, as that could've potentially given Lego enough time for the development and run of a possible three-year in-house Space theme. 

Oh, and what's Disney releasing every other Christmas when there's not another Star Wars entry? An Avatar sequel, four of them just before, in between, and right after the subsequent releases for this next Star Wars trilogy. 

Variety - Disney Announces New ‘Star Wars’ Films, Moves ‘Avatar’ Sequels

Quote

James Cameron’s long-awaited and oft-delayed follow-up to “Avatar” has been pushed back another year. “Avatar 2” will hit theaters on Dec. 17, 2021 instead of Dec. 18, 2020 as originally planned. Its move means that “Avatar 3” will open on Dec. 22, 2023 as opposed to Dec. 17, 2021 while “Avatar 4” will bow on Dec. 19, 2025 instead of Dec. 20, 2024 and “Avatar 5” will launch Dec. 17, 2027.

As part of the great release date shake-up, Disney announced that a trio of untitled “Star Wars” entries that will come after “Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker” brings the Skywalker spinoff saga to a close this December. The first of the new three films will hit the big screen on Dec. 16 2022. There will be two other follow-ups to during the Christmas corridor on Dec. 20, 2024 and Dec. 18, 2026. Disney is poised to dominate around the holidays for the foreseeable future. The studio is alternating between “Avatar” and “Star Wars” films every year through 2027 starting in 2021. 

 

[Lego David]

8 hours ago, Digger of Bricks said:

Oh boy, looks like it won't a very long break (if you can even call it a break)... 

Ah great. I should have known that Disney won't let Star Wars go that easily. And you are right... 2 years can't even be called a break.... at least not long enough break for LEGO to go back to their in-house space. 

So I guess LEGO Star Wars will keep running forever no matter what....

[x105Black]

On 5/5/2019 at 1:37 PM, TeriXeri said:

So because I liked Nexo Knights, I am not a true Castle fan or something?

The two things are independent.  You can be a fan of Nexo Knights and be a fan of Castle.  But being a fan of Nexo Knights does not make you a fan of Castle.

9 hours ago, TeriXeri said:

Nobody specific, but read Aanchir's post

That can be tedious.

About Disney and Star Wars, yeah, that's going to keep going on forever.  I just hope that these announced release dates are in reference to the Benioff and Weiss movies, not Rian Johnson's.