Themes LEGO should discontinue

[Aanchir]

1 hour ago, Digger of Bricks said:

^THIS^  

Exactly, so many here jump to the presumption that the next in-house Space theme will/should be a revival of Classic Space for some reason. 

It's especially frustrating to me that often this preference for Classic Space often seems to revolve around a fairly superficial sense of nostalgia. For example, The LEGO Movie 2 has some incredibly innovative spaceship builds associated with both Rex Dangervest and the Systar System, but it feels like a lot of the LEGO Space hype revolves around sets with far less impressive builds like 70841 (an impulse-priced set with a few tiny builds at a 5+ building level) and 70821 (a 4+/Juniors set with a prefab hull).

1 hour ago, Lego David said:

I can see Star Wars selling best after Episode IX comes out. After that, people will likey loose interest in the theme, slightly slowing the sales down. And that would be the perfect time to bring back a Original Space back, and could potentially sell even better than Star Wars, again, if done properly.

I definitely have doubts about whether a non-licensed space theme is likely to outsell Star Wars at any point in the foreseeable future. After all, I've seen no indication that they did so at any point even between 2007 and 2013, when Space and Star Wars coexisted and the range of Star Wars media and products was a lot smaller. The annual reports in 2009, 2010, 2011, and 2012 all credited City and Star Wars as the best-selling product lines in those years, even without any new Star Wars movies in theaters at the time, while no mention is made of themes like LEGO Space Police, Alien Conquest, Castle, Kingdoms, or Pirates.

But I agree that one of the main things that would open the door for successful original Space themes again alongside LEGO Star Wars would be for the current slate of Star Wars movies (or at least the current trilogy) to wrap up. I don't think its any coincidence that LEGO Space themes made a comeback shortly after the end of the prequel trilogy, and gave way to non-spacefaring sci-fi themes like Ultra Agents and Nexo Knights shortly before the beginning of the sequel trilogy.

The "if done properly" consideration often tends to crop up as an explanation for why themes like Castle, Space, or Pirates don't ever seem to sell nearly as well as today's mega-hits like City, Star Wars, Friends, Duplo, and Ninjago — presumably, they just weren't "done properly". But I think this is pretty unfair to the people who are in charge of designing new versions of those original themes.

Furthermore, the nebulous idea of how these themes should be "done properly" is rarely explained. Is it just a matter of having more sets/more variety/heavier marketing like these bigger themes have? Because even back in the 70s, 80s, and 90s, LEGO seemingly didn't perceive anywhere near as much demand for Space, Castle, or Pirates sets as for Town — and this was back when train sets weren't even counted as part of the town theme! So I don't think LEGO has any reason to take a gamble as big as giving the Castle, Pirates, or Space themes 30 to 50 sets per year. The cost of giving a theme that much emphasis is far from negligible. The difference between a series of six Castle or Pirates sets and a series of five times as manyCastle or Pirates sets could very well tip them from "small success" to "big failure", and pulling resources away from themes that have proven they DO reliably sell in larger enough volumes to justify those resources would only compound the risks at play.

[icm]

The idea that a revival of "classic theme X" would sell well "if done properly" is a typical "no true Scotsman" argument:

No Scotsman fails to wear his kilt on Wednesdays.  

My uncle Angus, born and bred in Edinburgh, never wears his kilt.

No true Scotsman fails to wear his kilt on Wednesdays.

A Space/Castle/Pirates revival would be very successful if done properly.

The last Space/Castle/Pirates revival was pretty short-lived and didn't sell very well.

The last Space/Castle/Pirates revival wasn't handled well because of this and this and this....

[Artanis I]

Again with the arguments as to why people are wrong for wanting themes to go away or have a break...

 

This is a vent/rant thread, if you don't like it, don't read it. But please don't continue to add insult to injury in this thread. It's so tedious and pointless. And if you're like this in real life, always explaining why someone's feelings are wrong, don't ever get married, your wife will become the most miserable person to ever live.

[JJ Tong (zfogshooterz)]

To be honest, I have no idea on how classic space would be if it came back. I mean Benny's stuffs is already an amazing throwback. Don't really know how it could go further than that. I know it could, I just don't see how. Though If it does, it'll definitely be interesting to see how. 

[Lego David]

18 hours ago, Lyichir said:

Quote from... who? Meaning what exactly? I haven't seen any indication that either Star Wars or Lego Star Wars is significantly underperforming compared to previous non-movie years. It's still among the top-selling themes, not even limited to just licensed themes. I won't argue with the fact that a new Space theme could potentially sell well. But selling better than Lego Star Wars is a tall order for both licensed themes and original themes—and Lego would be foolish to even aspire to that with a Space theme, since they have more to lose than to gain by cannibalizing sales from their longest-running and most successful licensed theme.

This video:

Sorry, I don't have a Time Stamp

10 hours ago, Artanis I said:

Again with the arguments as to why people are wrong for wanting themes to go away or have a break...

 

This is a vent/rant thread, if you don't like it, don't read it. But please don't continue to add insult to injury in this thread. It's so tedious and pointless. And if you're like this in real life, always explaining why someone's feelings are wrong, don't ever get married, your wife will become the most miserable person to ever live.

Just because people feel some way or another about a new product or company doesn't mean they do the same in everyday life.

[TeriXeri]

I agree this is an opinion thread, and each has their own reasons to buy/not buy , like/dislike certain aspects of LEGO.

I have my own set of unofficial "rules" on what I buy, and that's just as dynamic as LEGO themes come and go and I do respect what others like/dislike.

Right now, I am mainly waiting for Summer set pictures.

Not having Walmart/Target type stores doesn't help, and LEGO likes it's regional/store specific promos a lot lately. I buy almost everything online.

CMF aren't worth the gamble or premium price (specific figures) buying online for me.

Edited February 7, 2019 by TeriXeri

[Lego David]

2 hours ago, TeriXeri said:

Not having Walmart/Target type stores doesn't help, and LEGO likes it's regional/store specific promos a lot lately. I buy almost everything online.

I agree with this. There is indeed a interest for LEGO to make certain sets/promotions Walmart/Target exclusives, forcing the Europeans to buy those things online (not to talk about shipping and stuff). 

 

2 hours ago, TeriXeri said:

CMF aren't worth the gamble or premium price (specific figures) buying online for me.

And I agree with this too.

[pombe]

23 hours ago, Aanchir said:

It's especially frustrating to me that often this preference for Classic Space often seems to revolve around a fairly superficial sense of nostalgia. For example, The LEGO Movie 2 has some incredibly innovative spaceship builds associated with both Rex Dangervest and the Systar System, but it feels like a lot of the LEGO Space hype revolves around sets with far less impressive builds like 70841 (an impulse-priced set with a few tiny builds at a 5+ building level) and 70821 (a 4+/Juniors set with a prefab hull).

You put the criteria of nostalgia under the "fairly superficial" category for reasons for why people like/buy things.  However, this is why marketing departments exist.  Like it or not, perception and branding are stronger drivers for consumer behavior than purely objective measures for why one thing is better than another thing.  There are numerous examples in the automobile industry of objectively better cars being outsold by cars with better perception, branding, and/or nostalgic value.

That said, this works against fans of classic space specifically because Star Wars has better perception and branding, and higher nostalgic value with the general population.

[danth]

55 minutes ago, pombe said:

That said, this works against fans of classic space specifically because Star Wars has better perception and branding, and higher nostalgic value with the general population.

But what about the Lego-buying population?

[MAB]

On 2/6/2019 at 3:06 PM, Lego David said:

I agree. I feel like for some reason most people here want Classic Space back. We just got that Benny's Space Squad set. If Classic Space were to come back, I will probably not care about it very much. But with Space Police, Mars Mission, etc it's a different business...

 

I think this is a significant problem with bringing back any old theme. If they bring back Classic Space, they've done it wrong, it should have been Space Police. But if they brought back Space Police, they've done it wrong, it should have been Classic Space. Or Mars Mission, or Blacktron, or Futuron, or ... everyone's nostalgia trigger point is slightly different. People end up not buying as they wanted something slightly different and LEGO sees the real market for any of these is small.

[Aanchir]

33 minutes ago, danth said:

But what about the Lego-buying population?

Yeah, definitely among the LEGO-buying population too. Most LEGO fans who were born any time after the mid-80s are only familiar with Classic Space by association (e.g. references to it in The LEGO Movie or in later Space themes) and didn't have any firsthand experience with those sets. But most generations of kids born in the 1970s or later will have had some childhood experience watching Star Wars movies. It's not like LEGO fans are some bizarre subculture that ignored all mainstream trends in popular culture unless they had to do with LEGO, and one of the big motivating factors in LEGO acquiring the Star Wars license was that it was already popular with many of their existing fans.

Edited February 7, 2019 by Aanchir

[Lyichir]

Also worth keeping in mind—one of the reasons Lego introduced Space sets in the first place was because of a surging interest in space and sci-fi, in no small part thanks to movies LIKE Star Wars. How many kids bought Classic Space sets in part because it was the closest thing Lego had to Star Wars at the time? I reckon it was probably a lot.

[leafan]

On 2/7/2019 at 10:34 AM, Lego David said:

This video:

Sorry, I don't have a Time Stamp

Just because people feel some way or another about a new product or company doesn't mean they do the same in everyday life.

Wow, I hadn't realised that @Henry Bricklider had done a collab with another Youtuber.

Henry, you're not informing your fans lol.

[Lego David]

15 minutes ago, leafan said:

Wow, I hadn't realised that @Henry Bricklider had done a collab with another Youtuber

It's not necessary a collab, anyone can be at the Eljay Johnson Show if they can gave a good discussion with him.

[Henry Bricklider]

@leafanHaha, oops. I forgot, which is strange considering I was so hyped to be on the podcast. I'll be sure to make an event such as that known in the future. As to stay on topic, I think themes such as DC and Marvel shouldn't be discontinued, but could use a break and could do with a good revival in a few years. Star Wars really can't and shouldn't be cut. It has been a mainstay of LEGO now for 20 years and does pretty well (I simply have my issues with Disney's handling of Star Wars, and as an extension, LEGO Star Wars). What I say on the podcast is still mostly true to what I stand by today. Also, in regards to my claim that Star Wars is not doing so well now "Star Wars has been consistently running for 20 years, but it has never had a low point until now." admittedly, is a claim without any basis and comes more from my waning like of current Star Wars and I was putting my feelings and frustrations on the situation into a baseless claim.

Edited February 11, 2019 by Henry Bricklider

[Vindicare]

11 hours ago, Henry Bricklider said:

@leafanHaha, oops. I forgot, which is strange considering I was so hyped to be on the podcast. I'll be sure to make an event such as that known in the future. As to stay on topic, I think themes such as DC and Marvel shouldn't be discontinued, but could use a break and could do with a good revival in a few years. Star Wars really can't and shouldn't be cut. It has been a mainstay of LEGO now for 20 years and does pretty well (I simply have my issues with Disney's handling of Star Wars, and as an extension, LEGO Star Wars). What I say on the podcast is still mostly true to what I stand by today. Also, in regards to my claim that Star Wars is not doing so well now "Star Wars has been consistently running for 20 years, but it has never had a low point until now." admittedly, is a claim without any basis and comes more from my waning like of current Star Wars and I was putting my feelings and frustrations on the situation into a baseless claim.

I could somewhat agree with you on the Superheroes front. I don’t know your reasons, but I imagine it’s similar to SW complaints of too much of the same thing, in this case, Spider-Man/Batman. It’s understandable as they are both well recognized characters that sell...but with Marvel really branching out with the likes of Doctor Strange, Black Panther, & Captain Marvel. It’s just a shame we don’t get more from these movies. I do enjoy the theme overall, just some sets are rather....blah. That being said, I wouldn’t want to see it take a break. Wish they would mix it up.

Edited February 12, 2019 by Vindicare

[Henry Bricklider]

5 hours ago, Vindicare said:

I could somewhat agree with you on the Superheroes front. I don’t know your reasons, but I imagine it’s similar to SW complaints of too much of the same thing, in this case, Spider-Man/Batman. It’s understandable as they are both well recognized characters that sell...but with Marvel really branching out with the likes of Doctor Strange, Black Panther, & Captain Marvel. It’s just a shame we don’t get more from these movies. I do enjoy the theme overall, just some sets are rather....blah. That being said, I wouldn’t want to see it take a break. Wish they would mix it up.

My issue with SW really isn’t too much of the same thing as it really is “this line is expensive overall and the sets are not worth the money.” Now, there are certain models SW keeps producing and ignores others (SW would be in my good graces if they just released a new Tantive IV). I think SW needs to go back to products they haven’t remade in 10+ years and update them. I think then SW issue of staleness and producing the same content constantly would be resolved. I really only want the Superheroes themes to take a break if they continue in the direction they are currrently going, focusing solely on Batman and Spider-Man. If they turn it around and the lines are new and innovative with lots of different characters and builds from the DC and Marvel Universes, then there’d be no need for a break.

[MAB]

45 minutes ago, Henry Bricklider said:

My issue with SW really isn’t too much of the same thing as it really is “this line is expensive overall and the sets are not worth the money.” Now, there are certain models SW keeps producing and ignores others (SW would be in my good graces if they just released a new Tantive IV). I think SW needs to go back to products they haven’t remade in 10+ years and update them. I think then SW issue of staleness and producing the same content constantly would be resolved. I really only want the Superheroes themes to take a break if they continue in the direction they are currrently going, focusing solely on Batman and Spider-Man. If they turn it around and the lines are new and innovative with lots of different characters and builds from the DC and Marvel Universes, then there’d be no need for a break.

There is a big difference between an AFOL / long term collector and a kid here. Why go back 10+ years and re-release things that haven't been made for that long and presumably haven't been made for that long as they don't sell that well, when they can go back 2-3 years and re-release things that continue to sell well to kids.  Kids want a playable Millennium Falcon and an X-wing, for example. If either is missing from the shelves, then LEGO is missing a large chunk of the market. Those aren't stale if they are big sellers. They may be boring to the long term collector, but not to the kids just getting into LEGO SW.  They are expected.

It is the same with most licenses - for example, younger kids know of Batman and Spiderman.  Those characters will help sell the same or similar products year after year, probably better than some of the lesser known characters in current movies.

[Henry Bricklider]

5 hours ago, MAB said:

There is a big difference between an AFOL / long term collector and a kid here. Why go back 10+ years and re-release things that haven't been made for that long and presumably haven't been made for that long as they don't sell that well, when they can go back 2-3 years and re-release things that continue to sell well to kids.  Kids want a playable Millennium Falcon and an X-wing, for example. If either is missing from the shelves, then LEGO is missing a large chunk of the market. Those aren't stale if they are big sellers. They may be boring to the long term collector, but not to the kids just getting into LEGO SW.  They are expected.

It is the same with most licenses - for example, younger kids know of Batman and Spiderman.  Those characters will help sell the same or similar products year after year, probably better than some of the lesser known characters in current movies.

That's fair. I do agree that sets like the X-Wing and Millenium Falcon should always be represented and available almost all the time. However, there are older sets from SW that I am sure KFOLs would love to have that TFOLs and AFOLs would also appreciate seeing a re-release. Spider-Man and Batman can be good as long as LEGO delivers on really cool and creative new builds. The new wave of Spider-Man sets looks really good and there is stuff for all fans of LEGO in them. I hope the same can be said for the upcoming wave of Batman sets.

Edited February 12, 2019 by Henry Bricklider

[Vindicare]

16 hours ago, Henry Bricklider said:

My issue with SW really isn’t too much of the same thing as it really is “this line is expensive overall and the sets are not worth the money.” Now, there are certain models SW keeps producing and ignores others (SW would be in my good graces if they just released a new Tantive IV). I think SW needs to go back to products they haven’t remade in 10+ years and update them. I think then SW issue of staleness and producing the same content constantly would be resolved. I really only want the Superheroes themes to take a break if they continue in the direction they are currrently going, focusing solely on Batman and Spider-Man. If they turn it around and the lines are new and innovative with lots of different characters and builds from the DC and Marvel Universes, then there’d be no need for a break.

Yeah, as a collector it would be nice to see more variety. From the business perspective(as MAB said) it’s smart. X-Wings will always be fashion, much like police/fire in City. I would like to see the bigger sets as well, it seems like every few years we get one. Over in the SW section it was mentioned awhile back that it would be nice to see Jango’s Slave One again. It’s been about as long as the Tantive IV. 

In the Superheroes department, it’s nice to see Marvel(and now DC with Shazam) branching out with relatively unknown characters, it gives us at least one set the break up the usual. I’d like to see more buildings/facades & less vehicles too. 

[Lego David]

On 2/11/2019 at 3:49 PM, leafan said:

@Henry BrickliderBricklideBrickliderBrBrickliderBricklideBrickrickliderBricklideBrickliderBrBrickliderBricklid

I agree with Henry here. LEGO is obviously focusing on Batman much more than they really should. You can clearly tell that LEGO has a certain fatigue for the specific character of Batman. Can't tell if that applies to Spider Man too, but definitely with Batman.

And I too would rather see a Star Wars ship that was not remade very much than another X-Wing or Falcon.

[MAB]

3 hours ago, Lego David said:

I agree with Henry here. LEGO is obviously focusing on Batman much more than they really should. You can clearly tell that LEGO has a certain fatigue for the specific character of Batman.

1

Yet still Batman sets sell well. Why is that? I reckon the answer is because people keep buying them. So LEGO keep making them.

[TeriXeri]

With the 2nd LEGO Batman movie in the works, Batman won't go away for the next couple years.
 

[Aanchir]

3 hours ago, MAB said:

Yet still Batman sets sell well. Why is that? I reckon the answer is because people keep buying them. So LEGO keep making them.

This also isn't a LEGO-specific trend by a longshot. Manufacturers of licensed DC and Marvel superhero merchandise in general, as with the companies actually publishing the comics and producing the movies, have long found that Batman and Spider-Man are some of their most popular characters/series/brands, especially among the younger segments of their audience. I don't think it's any accident that LEGO's first superhero licenses were Spider-Man and Batman, nor that they're some of the only superheroes who have so many sets devoted to them on a routine basis whether or not there's a current or recent theatrical movie that those sets are specifically based on or branded with.

Like, I am for sure with a lot of y'all in wishing that more superheroes and supervillains got more of a chance in the spotlight, but I also fully understand that usually no matter how cool they are as characters, Batman and Spider-Man are pretty much unshakably cemented in the pop culture consciousness in a way that hardly any other superheroes, even other well-known and popular ones like Superman or Iron Man, can hope to compete with.

Edited February 13, 2019 by Aanchir

[icm]

When I was a kid the only three superheroes I knew about were Batman, Spider-Man, and Superman ....