24: Mafia - Hour 4: 3pm to 4pm

[Bob]

Oh come on now. With all these town dead and no scum dead we’re meant to believe that the blocker and the investigator are still alive? I mean it’s possible that the five town killed were vanilla or some other role besides the blocker and investigator. 

Is this game a copy of Witch Hunt Mafia? Are there any moles? 

Vote: Jack Bauer / KotZ 

I’ve never seen the TV show this game is based on. Does this sort of thing happen a lot? I think I’m going insane. This game is driving me crazy. I need to go take my brain medication. 

[mostlytechnic]

12 hours ago, Asphalt said:

If you really want to know, I’ve never seen anyone claim a power role like that so I wasn’t sure how to respond. I have no way to confirm or deny his claim. No evidence to either side and it’s not like he can either. He is either being honest and put a scum target on himself or he is lying and attempting to pull more town down in the next vote. Only way to tell is to see how this day goes. He is certainly drawing attention to himself though. I will give him that. 

As far as I see it his declaration will at the very least keep him out of the voting. If we are to believe his claim anyone who votes for him today will be called out as being moles. 

So I guess it is a good move for him either way. 

Well, to look at it from the possibility that Benson IS a mole, the start of the day sure looked like he'd be on the chopping block again, so a pre-emptive role claim is a good way to survive. If he is town, then he really is the blocker. There's no reason a CTU agent would lie and claim a PR. That's bad play. If he's scum though, it'd made sense and let him survive as long as there's not a counter-claim. 

11 hours ago, Khscarymovie4 said:

I know that we're all in the dark about other people's alliances and what not. But a scum doing this would be very risky, the town blocker would immediately know that a scum has revealed himself, scum know this too. Thus almost certain instant death for scum. Though a scum has claimed blocker in a game once. Only difference then was the scum were down to one person left and the person was already on the lynch boat. It's possible that this is a false claim but under the circumstances I doubt it is. 

No, it's not. If Benson is scum, then he's running the slight risk that CTU both HAS a blocker and the blocker is still alive to counter-claim. And even if so, we'd probably lynch Benson (I'd be more likely to trust the counterclaim than the initial, save-myself claim) but the moles would have identified the real blocker and be able to night kill them at some point. 

6 hours ago, fhomess said:

Of course you're town...  the possibility that you're both town is certainly there.  I didn't react to the claim because I didn't really pick up on it.  What changed between yesterday and today to make you not want to push for Dr. James anymore?

Not all of us... the moles all know who are on their side.  The blocker claim by scum is quite common, usually because they've been caught doing something and were forced to claim.  It's also an extremely common scum role, so easy to report valid actions.

This is encouraging.  I don't think you need to tell the entire group who you blocked if you have someone else to discuss it with.

Never said I don't still suspect Dr James. But given how yesterday he only got a couple votes, and Benson had a pile, and people were already bringing out the pitchforks, I'd have voted Benson today too. Lots of suspicious things that people have already cited, and CTU has no chance if we keep not lynching. Since there's been no sign of a vig or SK, we HAVE to start lynching to get moles dead or it's just a matter of time before we lose. 

[Bob]

Just now, mostlytechnic said:

Well, to look at it from the possibility that Benson IS a mole, the start of the day sure looked like he'd be on the chopping block again, so a pre-emptive role claim is a good way to survive. If he is town, then he really is the blocker. There's no reason a CTU agent would lie and claim a PR. That's bad play. If he's scum though, it'd made sense and let him survive as long as there's not a counter-claim. 

No, it's not. If Benson is scum, then he's running the slight risk that CTU both HAS a blocker and the blocker is still alive to counter-claim. And even if so, we'd probably lynch Benson (I'd be more likely to trust the counterclaim than the initial, save-myself claim) but the moles would have identified the real blocker and be able to night kill them at some point. 

You're entirely right that the blocker might be dead and that's why Benson is comfortable claiming that. It could've gone:

Night One or Two: Scum get lucky and rolecop the town blocker
Night Two or Three: Scum kill blocker
Day Four: Benson claims blocker 

Who is the other NPC in this game? Can I vote for both? I'll vote for the other one tomorrow. 

 

[Trekkie99]

14 minutes ago, Bob said:

You're entirely right that the blocker might be dead and that's why Benson is comfortable claiming that. It could've gone:

Night One or Two: Scum get lucky and rolecop the town blocker
Night Two or Three: Scum kill blocker
Day Four: Benson claims blocker 

Or maybe that happened to the investigator. 

[Bob]

4 minutes ago, LegoMonorailFan said:

Or maybe that happened to the investigator. 

That's a good suggestion. It's a good thing that I'm voting for the host or I'd be voting for you. Maybe you're a massive red herring. I don't know. 

[Trekkie99]

Can we get some votes? Knowing scum know a player knows who the investigator should yield some interesting reactions. 

If I'm in contact with a fake investigator, and if the real investigator is still out there, please have a spokesperson bring forth your information.

Vote: Riley Marshall (jluck)

[Zepher]

I'd really like to believe that Benson is the town blocker... it's a bigger risk than I'd expect from the scum at this point, but it's also totally possible because of exactly the scenario Bob outlined. That being said, also claiming to be in contact with the investigator bolsters the claim in my opinion. For a scum to be doing that... they'd have to be really sure they killed both the blocker and the investigator, right? Otherwise it'd just be suicide. Again, it's possible, but that'd be an incredibly lucky track record for Day Four, which leads me to accept Benson's claim.

2 minutes ago, LegoMonorailFan said:

Can we get some votes? Knowing scum know a player knows who the investigator should yield some interesting reactions. 

If I'm in contact with a fake investigator, and if the real investigator is still out there, please have a spokesperson bring forth your information.

Vote: Riley Marshall (jluck)

But then you go and do stuff like this, and I'm left with "what??". Nothing in this post, or any previous post, explains why we should be voting for Riley. I assume it's a result of an investigation? Otherwise it's just a random vote. The only person you've leveled anything against today was Zip. 

Since there are absolutely no votes beyond this right now... I suppose I will Vote: Riley Marshall (jluck) as well for the time being. Zip is still on my suspects list, especially with the split vote yesterday. Benson... I just don't know. Maybe I'm being too hopeful but while his behavior in the thread in general is bonkers to me, it just seems like someone would be able to disprove something he's said if he were scum.

[Asphalt]

2 hours ago, Bob said:

Oh come on now. With all these town dead and no scum dead we’re meant to believe that the blocker and the investigator are still alive? I mean it’s possible that the five town killed were vanilla or some other role besides the blocker and investigator. 

Is this game a copy of Witch Hunt Mafia? Are there any moles? 

Vote: Jack Bauer / KotZ 

I’ve never seen the TV show this game is based on. Does this sort of thing happen a lot? I think I’m going insane. This game is driving me crazy. I need to go take my brain medication. 

 

2 hours ago, Bob said:

You're entirely right that the blocker might be dead and that's why Benson is comfortable claiming that. It could've gone:

Night One or Two: Scum get lucky and rolecop the town blocker
Night Two or Three: Scum kill blocker
Day Four: Benson claims blocker 

Who is the other NPC in this game? Can I vote for both? I'll vote for the other one tomorrow. 

 

 

1 hour ago, Bob said:

That's a good suggestion. It's a good thing that I'm voting for the host or I'd be voting for you. Maybe you're a massive red herring. I don't know. 

Pretty sure you can't vote for the Boss.  

52 minutes ago, LegoMonorailFan said:

Can we get some votes? Knowing scum know a player knows who the investigator should yield some interesting reactions. 

If I'm in contact with a fake investigator, and if the real investigator is still out there, please have a spokesperson bring forth your information.

Vote: Riley Marshall (jluck)

Assuming 

1.  You are telling the truth about being the Town Block

AND

2.  You are telling the truth about being in contact with the town Investigator

Than 

3.  You have a significant amount of inside information

I am going to take a chance and go in with you.  If Riley flips town than we know we have been played. If he flips Scum, than we finally got a foothold for some Mole Elimination.  Either way, we will learn something.

Vote: Riley Marshall (jluck)

[Trekkie99]

@Zepher & @Asphalt, did I say that the investigator found jluck to be scum?

[jluck]

Wow, things have taken an unfortunate turn. I’m on the road ATM but will be stopping in the next few hours. 

1 hour ago, LegoMonorailFan said:

Can we get some votes? Knowing scum know a player knows who the investigator should yield some interesting reactions. 

If I'm in contact with a fake investigator, and if the real investigator is still out there, please have a spokesperson bring forth your information.

Vote: Riley Marshall (jluck)

You are wrong, very terribly wrong. The scum can take a chance because they likely have killed our investigator. The problem is, once you realize this tomorrow, it will be too late. I find it likely that you are scum. It’s a win win for you. If the real investigator comes forward you have their identity. Otherwise, you kill of one of the few remaining townies. 

If the real investigator is alive, please contact someone you’ve cleared and have them dispute Moore’s claim, otherwise this is lost. 

5 minutes ago, LegoMonorailFan said:

@Zepher & @Asphalt, did I say that the investigator found jluck to be scum?

So wait, your not voting for me because I’ve been investigated scum?? Please clarify ASAP. 

[Asphalt]

7 minutes ago, LegoMonorailFan said:

@Zepher & @Asphalt, did I say that the investigator found jluck to be scum?

Not outright, but is that not the point of your claims this hour?  To get the remaining town together to form a lynch on a guaranteed scum?

[jluck]

Just now, Asphalt said:

Not outright, but is that not the point of your claims this hour?  To get the remaining town together to form a lynch on a guaranteed scum?

I don’t get what he’s after. Claiming to know the investigator and asking if there’s a real investigator they’d should claim to him. He’s not offered anything verifiable, just loose claims. 

[Trekkie99]

Scum are going to be studying who I am/am not voting for, talking to, etc.

My goal is to confuse the scum, and not let my actions allow them to find out who the investigator is. 

If that makes it confusing for the town as well then I'm sorry.

Right now I'm eyeing @Asphalt and @Zepher for how quickly they turned my vote on jluck into a bandwagon.

[jluck]

1 minute ago, LegoMonorailFan said:

Scum are going to be studying who I am/am not voting for, talking to, etc.

My goal is to confuse the scum, and not let my actions allow them to find out who the investigator is. 

If that makes it confusing for the town as well then I'm sorry.

Right now I'm eyeing @Asphalt and @Zepher for how quickly they turned my vote on jluck into a bandwagon.

Dude

[Zepher]

No, you did not, but you did say you were in contact with the investigator and then vote for Riley without any other evidence. Honestly I truly can't tell what you're trying to do right now. We all know we need a lynch today. Yes, I'm trying to bandwagon off the best leads we have.

If you're saying that the investigator did not actually say anything about jluck... I just don't know what the strategy here is with you.

Just now, LegoMonorailFan said:

 My goal is to confuse the scum, and not let my actions allow them to find out who the investigator is. 

 If that makes it confusing for the town as well then I'm sorry.

What are we supposed to do with that? You're openly admitting you're confusing the scum, and also the town? You're not currently running the risk of exposing the investigator, but that's just something you're not doing (a good thing, yes) but at the same time it doesn't really help us, since pretty much everyone else is ALO not revealing the investigator.

I'm truly confused. Every part of what you do in public seems so scummy - the multiple confusions, the claim to know the investigator and then asking the investigator to reveal themselves to you, and then leading a lynch after claiming to know the investigator and saying it was just to cause confusion. But I still, just looking at the number of nights we've had, can't see how you can reasonably be scum. Either this is a truly crazy and lucky scum hail mary, or you're town.

I guess for now I'll Unvote: Riley Marshall (jluck) since you seem to be suggesting that was just a random vote you put forward? Clarification would be good.

[jluck]

When you claim to be in contact with the investigator and then start a vote, everyone will follow. They think you’ve got a sure thing!

[Trekkie99]

Just now, jluck said:

When you claim to be in contact with the investigator and then start a vote, everyone will follow. They think you’ve got a sure thing!

I didn't clarify because that would be counterproductive to what I was trying to do.

Does anyone have any scum reads of their own?

1 minute ago, jluck said:

When you claim to be in contact with the investigator and then start a vote, everyone will follow. They think you’ve got a sure thing!

And no I don't personally think everyone would follow unless I had specifically said the investigator said jluck is scum.

[Asphalt]

13 minutes ago, LegoMonorailFan said:

Scum are going to be studying who I am/am not voting for, talking to, etc.

My goal is to confuse the scum, and not let my actions allow them to find out who the investigator is. 

If that makes it confusing for the town as well then I'm sorry.

Right now I'm eyeing @Asphalt and @Zepher for how quickly they turned my vote on jluck into a bandwagon.

Everyone one is studying what you do. You claimed to be both a PR and in co tact with the investigator. If we assume you are telling the truth we have to assume your vote is a sure Thing. Where is the facepalm emoji?  Now I need to decide whether to pull my vote and continue to believe your claims or conclude you are actually scum making a power play for the investigator. 

[Trekkie99]

Unfortunately the investigator has not found any scum at the moment. They do however have suspicion of @mostlytechnic.

[Trekkie99]

5 hours ago, LegoMonorailFan said:

So we may have a strongman...

Any reactions or questions about this?

 

[Asphalt]

6 minutes ago, LegoMonorailFan said:

Any reactions or questions about this?

 

Thought it was just a figure of speech. What’s a strongman?

[mostlytechnic]

4 hours ago, Bob said:

You're entirely right that the blocker might be dead and that's why Benson is comfortable claiming that. It could've gone:

Night One or Two: Scum get lucky and rolecop the town blocker
Night Two or Three: Scum kill blocker
Day Four: Benson claims blocker 

Who is the other NPC in this game? Can I vote for both? I'll vote for the other one tomorrow. 

Wow, that's an unlikely sequence of luck. I can say, as someone who was a scum blocker in a previous mole hunt, I did a town blocker claim to try and save myself. It didn't work, but a claim doesn't mean the scum know the town blocker is gone. Before the claim, Benson was facing a lot of pressure, so it could have been an attempt to save himself. I kinda doubt it at this point though, with everything else I've seen this hour. 

3 hours ago, LegoMonorailFan said:

Or maybe that happened to the investigator. 

Possible - you mean you're worried that the investigator you're connected to is scum faking it? It's easy to fake, especially in PMs, since they know who is scum and who is town. As for me, I do not find you saying you are in contact with the investigator and calling for any counterclaims to come forth suspicious. It makes sense to me. 

2 hours ago, LegoMonorailFan said:

Can we get some votes? Knowing scum know a player knows who the investigator should yield some interesting reactions. 

If I'm in contact with a fake investigator, and if the real investigator is still out there, please have a spokesperson bring forth your information.

Vote: Riley Marshall (jluck)

As others said, why? If you're just doing a random vote, you needed to say so. 

1 hour ago, LegoMonorailFan said:

@Zepher & @Asphalt, did I say that the investigator found jluck to be scum?

No, but it's a logical assumption when you don't give any other reason for the vote!

17 minutes ago, LegoMonorailFan said:

Unfortunately the investigator has not found any scum at the moment. They do however have suspicion of @mostlytechnic.

Um, WTF? Is that trying to hint at who the investigator is, or why else would you say that? I'm straight up CTU loyal here. Saying the investigator has suspicions gives that suspicion too much weight, and it also messes with night actions (since both sides will potentially be focused on me)

Just now, LegoMonorailFan said:

Any reactions or questions about this?

The strongman claim? I've never seen on here at EB that I can remember. According to mafiawiki, it means the person has an unstoppable kill (protection, blocking, etc cannot stop them). It's usually 1 shot. And it's USUALLY scum-aligned, although it's possible to be a vig or SK. I'd be very scared if you're in contact with someone claiming to be a strongman, since they're likely a scum killer. Do you have any further reason to trust them? Or are they just someone trying to get in the inner circle? Did they only contact you after your public claim? 

[Trekkie99]

Just now, mostlytechnic said:

As others said, why? If you're just doing a random vote, you needed to say so. 

No, but it's a logical assumption when you don't give any other reason for the vote!

Again, stating my reason would have been counterproductive. I'm seeing a lot of defense for zepher and asphalt, but hardly any consideration into the possibility of one or both of them being scum.

 

5 minutes ago, mostlytechnic said:

Um, WTF? Is that trying to hint at who the investigator is, or why else would you say that? I'm straight up CTU loyal here. Saying the investigator has suspicions gives that suspicion too much weight, and it also messes with night actions (since both sides will potentially be focused on me)

Nothing of the sort. It means what it says. Somewhat of an overreaction on your part I must say.

 

8 minutes ago, mostlytechnic said:

The strongman claim? I've never seen on here at EB that I can remember. According to mafiawiki, it means the person has an unstoppable kill (protection, blocking, etc cannot stop them). It's usually 1 shot. And it's USUALLY scum-aligned, although it's possible to be a vig or SK. I'd be very scared if you're in contact with someone claiming to be a strongman, since they're likely a scum killer. Do you have any further reason to trust them? Or are they just someone trying to get in the inner circle? Did they only contact you after your public claim? 

They've claimed town commuter to me.

 

 

 

[mostlytechnic]

15 minutes ago, LegoMonorailFan said:

Again, stating my reason would have been counterproductive. I'm seeing a lot of defense for zepher and asphalt, but hardly any consideration into the possibility of one or both of them being scum.

They've claimed town commuter to me.

Oh, I'm fully considering they might be scum. I'm not defending them in the least. I do say I understand WHY (if they're town) they voted how they did, after you claim to know the investigator and throw out a vote without any explanation. 

As for the strongman/commuter - which is it? They're completely different roles. Commuter is a town role, means the person can pick to "leave town" at night and are therefore untargetable and unkillable. It's usually a sometimes role (either odd/even nights, or so many uses). And it's a fairly easy scum fake claim, since 1. it's uncommon here at EB and 2. it's hard to disprove, unless you're in contact with some PR that HAS successfully targetted them with something, but then again, the commuter claims it's a 1 shot or even nights only or something, and that explains it. 

[Tariq j]

We’ve had this problem in the past with known town PR’s leading the town down the wrong path due to clarification. As a town PR people will take what you say as the gospel truth, so it’s important to distinguish between what you THINK and what you know as fact.