24: Mafia - Hour 3: 1pm to 2pm

[KotZ]

Voting is now open. With 12 players, a majority of 7 is needed to lynch.

[Khscarymovie4]

14 hours ago, mostlytechnic said:

I agree, NORMALLY they would not. In this case, I'm saying don't rule it out since it was such an unusual situation. To me, it was similar to when there's an investigator report on someone. Everyone jumps on that vote wagon. Obviously that's a little different since it's a scum getting lynched, but it's a similar situation in that it was 100% obvious who was getting lynched, so zero reason for the scum to vote anywhere else. 

Second, check your math. As I explained above, NINE of us 12 were on the Lewis wagon. THREE were not. 

And I was scum, I wouldn't be arguing this point since I also said moles are on the wagon, which is where my vote is, so I'd be calling attention to myself. 

But obviously there wasn't zero reasons for scum to vote anywhere else as the person who was being lynched was town. Like I think I said before, when a bandwagon forms on a townie. Voting for someone else, just to basically say "I told you so" the next day could give you a town vibe to some players. I could definitely see scum voting for someone different, from that perspective. Also saying "If I was scum, I wouldn't.." makes you look even more scummier. I seriously doubt there are no moles on the wagon, and most people here already know this. So you calling attention to that makes you no less scummier then anyone esle really.Your also not really putting yourself in too much danger when you call out the bandwagon vote either as their are like 9 other people, just saying nothing you have done shows that you are definitely not scum. If anything your reactions to the discussion have made me highly suspicious of you. 

11 hours ago, fhomess said:

Jason White (Kintobor) was the last vote prior to the complete breakdown by Officer Lewis.

If you think one or two scum spread elsewhere, tell us who.

 

All the ones who voted elsewhere have been mentioned before. 2 are dead and 3 still breathe. None of the three that voted no with the bandwagon had anything odd about them tell I looked at the votes last night to find some outliers. Today I would say Moore is the most suspicious from the little group we have here. Mostly because I find his post above a little too defensive, for what was basically just a comment saying how he was the most suspicious out of a certain group. 

3 hours ago, Kwatchi said:

The players JamesN voted for himself, not who voted for him..  His actions were so erratic I personally can't read much into anything but I think it's day 3 and we are somehow still tunnel visioned on this guy, and all it does is take away attention from others.

Now for the second time today I have someone with a "feeling" that I am scum.  I state facts and openly explain my rationale and suspicions, but it is countered with "doesn't feel right".  I could continue to address stuff like this, but it would be like shouting into the wind. 

 

My emotional word count idea from Day 1 is more interesting now though.

Say what you want about yesterday, but I don't find being focused around the Lewis situation to be a bad thing. Is it the only thing we should talk about? No, but it did produce some interesting things to take not off. Most notably who didn't vote, and who did. His erratic behavior should no derail any good discussion's that take place surrounding it. 

Is it just me, or do both Moore and Zip seem to want and steer the topic away from the vote and lynch again Lewis. I think both are on the top of my personal suspicion list at the moment. Sadly, I will not be selecting either as my running mate. Bob, you look like you know alot about politics! Want to be the Vice-president? 

[Asphalt]

7 hours ago, Bob said:

The first time you brought up that I hadn't listed any reasoning as to why I wanted to vote for Benson, I thought you might've missed it in all the posts yesterday.

Now I think you're either blind or you're deliberately trying to sabotage my claims against him. Several times yesterday I indicated why I was going to vote for him. Today I'm going to vote for him. Are you trying to come to his defense here? At least in a subtle way? 

You have been going for him hard since the start. Like you have him holding the proverbial smoking gun. Or in our case the dripping hammer.   I don’t deny you have posted some reasoning. But for as adamant as you are about it I wonder if there is more that would convince us to go along with you. 

[Asphalt]

10 hours ago, fhomess said:

 

I assume from this, that Benson thinks Bob is not scum and will vote for him later.

You had me to here. 

Is it a typo or am I reading it wrong?  

[mostlytechnic]

12 hours ago, Zepher said:

I'd like to put two other names into consideration. Zip has for the whole game sort of rubbed me the wrong way. He shows up to YELL that there just isn't enough evidence! Darn it! Someone find some evidence! He then sort of disappears into the woodwork, and today he is advocating loudly against a pretty obvious conclusion (that there was probably a scum who didn't jump on the bandwagon... something I believe is probably true for the reasons outlined already above by the Senator and others). Secondly, Agent Moore is, as Riley noted, doing exactly what a scum who didn't jump on a bandwagon would do. The two of them seem to really be selling the narrative that scum all voted for Lewis.

At first, I was going to ARGUE and YELL (DARN IT!) about how you lumped Moore and me together, since I didn't remember him making the same argument as me. But then I went back and read (man, aren't unredacted transcripts a useful thing?) his statement again and I see it. 

10 hours ago, Bob said:

The first time you brought up that I hadn't listed any reasoning as to why I wanted to vote for Benson, I thought you might've missed it in all the posts yesterday.

Now I think you're either blind or you're deliberately trying to sabotage my claims against him. Several times yesterday I indicated why I was going to vote for him. Today I'm going to vote for him. Are you trying to come to his defense here? At least in a subtle way? 

Have to say, bob, I agree with Wilson. Yes, you've stated your position before, but amongst all the debate here, it's hard to remember. I'd appreciate a little reminder of why you wanna lynch someone when you say it. Saves me looking through pages and pages of discussion. 

[Bob]

1 hour ago, mostlytechnic said:

Have to say, bob, I agree with Wilson. Yes, you've stated your position before, but amongst all the debate here, it's hard to remember. I'd appreciate a little reminder of why you wanna lynch someone when you say it. Saves me looking through pages and pages of discussion. 

 

Allow me to help you:

On 1/10/2019 at 10:14 PM, Bob said:

Can we vote yet? Looks like it’s almost time. I really want to vote for that Benson guy. Before anyone comes out and says that I’m just voting with no reason, I think I’ve given plenty reason. I voted for him yesterday, partially because he voted for me with absolutely no reasoning and then disappeared. Today he came out with a bonkers suggestion that we should be looking at the way people are killed to see which role killed them.  Of all the crazy things I’ve heard in these games, that’s up there. He’s either being really silly or he’s trying to deflect that the scum killed last night for some reason, which is an even sillier thing to do. 

Plus he’s been back in the thread a couple times and hasn’t said anything. So, hopefully not much longer until voting opens and I can vote for Benson.

There's only so many times that I can reiterate why I think he's scum without it looking repetitive. 

Vote: Benson / LegoMonorailFan

Vote for Benson for a brighter and better future for all. 

 

[Asphalt]

Did Benson have anything to say about it?  

[Trekkie99]

1 hour ago, Asphalt said:

Did Benson have anything to say about it?  

Yes. I pointed out that I did in fact give a reason for why I found Bob suspicious and why I voted for him.

[Bob]

Where is everyone? Voting has opened and everyone has disappeared. It's been about 18 hours since voting opened and only one vote has been cast. I understand that the scum team are quietly conferring, but what about the town? There's bound to be a lot of us left. Where are all of you? We can't stick our heads in the sand and hope this problem goes away. 

If you're not convinced on my Benson lynch at least put something else out there. Cast a vote. It's only Day Three. If you're all this quiet on Day Three I don't want to think what it's going to be like later on. 

[Zepher]

I’ve been wondering the same thing. I had a long day of analyzing and will be home in an hour or two to officially cast a vote but... where is everyone?

I’m currently not totally sold on Benson being our MOST LIKELY scum today, though as I’ve said in the past I do suspect him. Zip, your response to me is very strange, as you exhibit one thing I accused you of (making useless posts that put the demand of work back on others) and further admitting that I’m RIGHT about my second accusation without actually addressing why it isn’t scummy...? What gives?

As it stands I’m between Benson and Zip.

[Asphalt]

Yeah bob you have a point. I honestly do not have a solid read on anyone and yours is the only vote. I can agree that some of Benson’s comments were odd and he has kinda ghosted through the days.  So for lack of better perps. I am throwing in with you. Hope it doesn’t bite us.  If someone else has a stronger case to push I am open to evidence. 

Vote Benson( LEGOmonorailfan)

 

[fhomess]

12 hours ago, Asphalt said:

You had me to here. 

Is it a typo or am I reading it wrong?  

This was in relation to Jason White's observation that Benson said he didn't think Lewis was scum but later joined the bandwagon.  He now says he doesn't think Bob is scum, so I suggested we might expect him to later vote for Bob.

 

As for me, I will Vote: Agent Moore (Kwatchi)

I think he completely overreacted to my earlier comments and he took a strong response to Riley as well.  There's an element of desperation in his tone that doesn't sit well.  When I pointed this out, he later only commented on Riley's remarks that he can't respond to "it doesn't sit well".

[jluck]

Based on what I said earlier, I’m voting for Moore. He also PMed me saying my argument was baseless and he can’t defend himself against outright lies, which didn’t really help look clean in my eyes. So vote: agent Moore (kwatchi)

 

[Kintobor]

23 hours ago, LegoMonorailFan said:

I voted for Lewis because aside from maybe Bob at the time, I didn't have any scum reads, so I put my vote on Lewis (who already had enough votes on him for a  lynch) in order not to get penalized.

Let me get this straight: you decided to hop onto a bandwagon to quickly not get penalized? You believed Lewis to be town, though, and nowhere in your most recent statement is there anything about you being suspicious of Lewis, so why not just vote for Bob?  It comes off as just you trying to hide in a bandwagon.

25 minutes ago, Bob said:

Where is everyone? Voting has opened and everyone has disappeared. It's been about 18 hours since voting opened and only one vote has been cast. I understand that the scum team are quietly conferring, but what about the town? There's bound to be a lot of us left. Where are all of you? We can't stick our heads in the sand and hope this problem goes away. 

If you're not convinced on my Benson lynch at least put something else out there. Cast a vote. It's only Day Three. If you're all this quiet on Day Three I don't want to think what it's going to be like later on. 

Agreed. People who don't vote at this point in time are withholding their vote for a reason. Speaking of...

Vote: Benson (LegoMonorailFan)

The recent contradiction you made regarding your opinion on Lewis is something I'm more than curious of. Most of your statements felt off, but not enough for me to fully consider you lynch-worthy. With your statement yesterday regarding Lewis being town but hopping onto a bandwagon for him, I can't help but finger you as the person who's going to be given my vote.

[Trekkie99]

20 minutes ago, jluck said:

Based on what I said earlier, I’m voting for Moore. He also PMed me saying my argument was baseless and he can’t defend himself against outright lies, which didn’t really help look clean in my eyes. So vote: agent Moore (kwatchi)

 

Well that's weird. How can one not defend themselves against lies? 

Me personally I'm going to Vote: Zip (mostlytechnic) for IMO trying to detract from a potential scummate that didn't vote for Lewis.

[Trekkie99]

22 minutes ago, Kintobor said:

Let me get this straight: you decided to hop onto a bandwagon to quickly not get penalized? You believed Lewis to be town, though, and nowhere in your most recent statement is there anything about you being suspicious of Lewis, so why not just vote for Bob?  It comes off as just you trying to hide in a bandwagon.

Agreed. People who don't vote at this point in time are withholding their vote for a reason. Speaking of...

Vote: Benson (LegoMonorailFan)

The recent contradiction you made regarding your opinion on Lewis is something I'm more than curious of. Most of your statements felt off, but not enough for me to fully consider you lynch-worthy. With your statement yesterday regarding Lewis being town but hopping onto a bandwagon for him, I can't help but finger you as the person who's going to be given my vote.

I was not contradicting myself. I already stated I thought Lewis was town and that I voted for him not because I thought he was suspicious but because I needed to put my vote somewhere in order not to get penalized. That means that the only thing that you have against me is that I didn't vote for Bob who I assumingly found suspicious at the time (still do just not as much). As to why I didn't vote Bob, IDK. Sort of forgot about him. (Was also having a little trouble getting into the game. Day one went by in a blur for me, and day two was confusing. Fortunately that's changed.)

[Zepher]

At risk of splitting the vote too much: I Vote: Zip (mostlytechnic). I think a lynch is important though, and both of the others are on my suspect list and I’ll be happy to switch my vote later if it’s needed.

[Khscarymovie4]

Uh oh. Seems like we have a three way vote going on here. If I am not mistaken, at the current moment the vote is

Legomonorailfan - 3 votes (Bob, Asphalt, Kintobor) 

Kwatchi - 2 votes (fhomess, jluck) 

Mostlytechnic - 2 votes (legomonorailfan, Zepher) 

Personally I don't find Benson to have sparked my interest as much as he has others. I'm more suspicious of the other two characters on this mess of a story we have ourselfs in. Zip's comments about all the scum being on the lynch made little since, and could definitely be scum trying to save a buddy. When my lovely wife mentioned how out of all the people who stayed off the bandwagon, Moore was the one she found the most suspicious. Moore then quickly defended himself against what was a quick comment. Like others have I find this really too defensive and scum like (Sort of similar to something I did in brickwood I think). There is also the fact that he was an outsider on the bandwagon and like I said, I wouldn't be surprised if a scum hid there as lots like to do. 

I could vote for either Moore or Zip, no real preference. At the moment the two are tied, I will go with Moore as I think his defense is a little more (pun) scummy then Zip's comment about the outliers. Not by much though. I could go either ways today. 

Vote: Agent Moore (Kwatchi) 

Ok I also want to point out how both Kaster @Lady K and Dr. James @Tariq j been very quiet today. Just wanted to point that out so they don't slip under the radar too much. Especially James after her comment about the investigator yesterday. 

9 hours ago, Bob said:

 

Vote for Benson for a brighter and better future for all. 

 

Vote for me in another voting system for an even better future! I'm still offering you the.V.P position. 

[Kwatchi]

I did pm jluck yesterday. I told him the same thing I will tell you now. I wasn't sure if he was scum or town, but that was brilliant move. He put out an accusation on me based on absolutely nothing (I'm literally being voted for because someone's “spider sense is tingling”), but I was skewered either way. If I came out to defend myself, I was being overly aggressive and suspicious; if I did nothing I was hiding.

Heck, I posted nothing between then and now and I have been upgraded to 'desperate'. My silence is deafening! Sheer genius play. Except after a day to reflect on things, it is not really is it. It is simply another example of how broken this game group is.

What follows is a rant. It is long and not really about this specific game at all, but it draws examples from it and needs to be said. Not the ideal forum for this granted but I want everyone's attention. Since I have already seem to be in the spotlight, I might as well leverage that for a purpose. It is also likely very counter-productive for me game-wise, but I am beyond caring about that atm.

I have only played one other game of Mafia on EB, but I have watched a few and read back through a far more. It always seem to be the same players making it past day 3 and into the end game, with some outliers. I figured it was just player experience that allowed them pick out subtle behaviour clues and clear newer players out. But now being on the receiving end of this I realize that is complete bunk.

Vets stick together in this group and newbs are “ignored”. I used quotes because it is not strictly that no one acknowledges them, it is they play around them. My example is that both Kristel and myself have been on Tariq. Kristel from Day 1, and me as of yesterday. We detailed our proof as best we could and during that time the only acknowledgement of the argument (PR fishing) is a throw away excuse from Tariq himself. Not one peep from anyone else about what we put forward. I'm willing to bet had I done what he did that I'd be up against the wall in a flash, but Tariq is a long time player so everyone seems to just ignore it as an honest mistake. It is two-tier thinking at it worst.

Today I simply feel like I was invited in order to make up the numbers. The vets are happy because they can vote off the newbs in the first few days and then they can play by themselves for the part that matters. Us newer players are stuck bewildered, wondering why no PMs us, no one believes us, and no one pays attention to us.

I have too much self-pride to simply suicide like JamesN just did, or Foreman did last game, or simply quit abruptly like Drunkhok did in my only other game played. While I am frustrated, it wouldn't be fair to the people who are actually trying to play evenly. However I won't be back for a third game either.

Now I'm assuming I have instantly upgraded myself from desperate to Satan incarnate, but it is what it is. As detailed previously, my vote is on Tariq for the Day 2 PR fishing we caught him doing.

Vote Dr. James/Tariq

Next on my list going forward is fhmoness (Diane) for starting the “he feels funny” train that I believe is an effort to peel me off Tariq. I believe these two are a scum team and I won't be deviating unless another scum is uncovered.

And I finally draw your attention to the absence of LadyK. If you wanted another blatant example of two-tier thinking, there it is.

[KotZ]

Current Vote Count
Benson (Legomonorailfan) - 3 votes (Bob, Asphalt, Kintobor)
Agent Moore (Kwatchi) - 3 votes (fhomess, jluck, Khscarymovie4)
Zip (Mostlytechnic) - 2 votes (legomonorailfan, Zepher)
Dr. James (Tariq J) - 1 vote (Kwatchi)

With 12 players, a majority of 7 is needed to lynch. There are 24 hours left in the day.

[fhomess]

Unvote: Agent Moore (Kwatchi) - I don't feel good about this vote.

I will vote again later.

[Lady K]

3 hours ago, Khscarymovie4 said:

Uh oh. Seems like we have a three way vote going on here. If I am not mistaken, at the current moment the vote is

Legomonorailfan - 3 votes (Bob, Asphalt, Kintobor) 

Kwatchi - 2 votes (fhomess, jluck) 

Mostlytechnic - 2 votes (legomonorailfan, Zepher) 

Personally I don't find Benson to have sparked my interest as much as he has others. I'm more suspicious of the other two characters on this mess of a story we have ourselfs in. Zip's comments about all the scum being on the lynch made little since, and could definitely be scum trying to save a buddy. When my lovely wife mentioned how out of all the people who stayed off the bandwagon, Moore was the one she found the most suspicious. Moore then quickly defended himself against what was a quick comment. Like others have I find this really too defensive and scum like (Sort of similar to something I did in brickwood I think). There is also the fact that he was an outsider on the bandwagon and like I said, I wouldn't be surprised if a scum hid there as lots like to do. 

I could vote for either Moore or Zip, no real preference. At the moment the two are tied, I will go with Moore as I think his defense is a little more (pun) scummy then Zip's comment about the outliers. Not by much though. I could go either ways today. 

Vote: Agent Moore (Kwatchi) 

Ok I also want to point out how both Kaster @Lady K and Dr. James @Tariq j been very quiet today. Just wanted to point that out so they don't slip under the radar too much. Especially James after her comment about the investigator yesterday. 

Vote for me in another voting system for an even better future! I'm still offering you the.V.P position. 

 

3 hours ago, Kwatchi said:

I did pm jluck yesterday. I told him the same thing I will tell you now. I wasn't sure if he was scum or town, but that was brilliant move. He put out an accusation on me based on absolutely nothing (I'm literally being voted for because someone's “spider sense is tingling”), but I was skewered either way. If I came out to defend myself, I was being overly aggressive and suspicious; if I did nothing I was hiding.

Heck, I posted nothing between then and now and I have been upgraded to 'desperate'. My silence is deafening! Sheer genius play. Except after a day to reflect on things, it is not really is it. It is simply another example of how broken this game group is.

What follows is a rant. It is long and not really about this specific game at all, but it draws examples from it and needs to be said. Not the ideal forum for this granted but I want everyone's attention. Since I have already seem to be in the spotlight, I might as well leverage that for a purpose. It is also likely very counter-productive for me game-wise, but I am beyond caring about that atm.

I have only played one other game of Mafia on EB, but I have watched a few and read back through a far more. It always seem to be the same players making it past day 3 and into the end game, with some outliers. I figured it was just player experience that allowed them pick out subtle behaviour clues and clear newer players out. But now being on the receiving end of this I realize that is complete bunk.

Vets stick together in this group and newbs are “ignored”. I used quotes because it is not strictly that no one acknowledges them, it is they play around them. My example is that both Kristel and myself have been on Tariq. Kristel from Day 1, and me as of yesterday. We detailed our proof as best we could and during that time the only acknowledgement of the argument (PR fishing) is a throw away excuse from Tariq himself. Not one peep from anyone else about what we put forward. I'm willing to bet had I done what he did that I'd be up against the wall in a flash, but Tariq is a long time player so everyone seems to just ignore it as an honest mistake. It is two-tier thinking at it worst.

Today I simply feel like I was invited in order to make up the numbers. The vets are happy because they can vote off the newbs in the first few days and then they can play by themselves for the part that matters. Us newer players are stuck bewildered, wondering why no PMs us, no one believes us, and no one pays attention to us.

I have too much self-pride to simply suicide like JamesN just did, or Foreman did last game, or simply quit abruptly like Drunkhok did in my only other game played. While I am frustrated, it wouldn't be fair to the people who are actually trying to play evenly. However I won't be back for a third game either.

Now I'm assuming I have instantly upgraded myself from desperate to Satan incarnate, but it is what it is. As detailed previously, my vote is on Tariq for the Day 2 PR fishing we caught him doing.

Vote Dr. James/Tariq

Next on my list going forward is fhmoness (Diane) for starting the “he feels funny” train that I believe is an effort to peel me off Tariq. I believe these two are a scum team and I won't be deviating unless another scum is uncovered.

And I finally draw your attention to the absence of LadyK. If you wanted another blatant example of two-tier thinking, there it is.

My apologies for being quiet and sitting on the other side of the room here; still recovering from the flu. 

1 hour ago, KotZ said:

Current Vote Count
Benson (Legomonorailfan) - 3 votes (Bob, Asphalt, Kintobor)
Agent Moore (Kwatchi) - 3 votes (fhomess, jluck, Khscarymovie4)
Zip (Mostlytechnic) - 2 votes (legomonorailfan, Zepher)
Dr. James (Tariq J) - 1 vote (Kwatchi)

With 12 players, a majority of 7 is needed to lynch. There are 24 hours left in the day.

I will cast a vote and give my thoughts after I sift through all the distracting directions the conversation has gone.  Some stand out more than others; and the sheer fact we have a three main choices and a single vote on a fourth candidate shows that in my opinion the scum are leading the town bandwagons.  We only have a few hours left to form a solid lynch for today.  This split is very troubling.

My thoughts on the choices above, so far;  Benson does stand out, as I have worked with him before on both sides of the law, and he seems to be going in two different directions at once. (more on this later)  I am leaning scum on him.

Agent Moore seems way too defensive in his latest post and really stands out too much to be more scummy than the others.  

Zip, I have also worked with on both sides of clean and shady dealings, seems to be both not be as helpful as the past and yet drawing too much attention to be on the dark side of things.  I am middle of the road on him so far.

 

[Tariq j]

10 hours ago, Kwatchi said:

Vets stick together in this group and newbs are “ignored”. I used quotes because it is not strictly that no one acknowledges them, it is they play around them. My example is that both Kristel and myself have been on Tariq. Kristel from Day 1, and me as of yesterday. We detailed our proof as best we could and during that time the only acknowledgement of the argument (PR fishing) is a throw away excuse from Tariq himself. Not one peep from anyone else about what we put forward. I'm willing to bet had I done what he did that I'd be up against the wall in a flash, but Tariq is a long time player so everyone seems to just ignore it as an honest mistake. It is two-tier thinking at it 

I apologise if it felt like I didn't address the argument against me. It was a stupid post to make I'll admit, but I wasn't fishing for PR's. One thing I will say is that other members did pick up on what I said, mostlytechnic, khascarymovie4, and Jamesn just to name a few, it wasn't just you and Kristel exclusively.

In regards to our three main choices, Zip has been giving a Townie read until today, his constant and forceful suggestion that there "absolutely all scum MUST be on the bandwagon" feels like he's trying to draw focus off those who were not. I'm not disagreeing with his claim, but his certainty that ALL scum must be on the bandwagon is strange.

I'm stuck on Benson, I was also in a PM with the late Office Lewis and he was convinced Benson was scum. I'm not totally convinced by his argument here which seems to amount too, " Bob felt scummy to me and Lewis felt town, but I voted for Lewis because I forgot about Bob" this also puts Bob on my radar because I'm thinking Benson may be playing a bit of WIFOM here I.e. calling a fellow scum scummy, but then not going ahead and voting for them. 

Then there's Agent Moore, I feel likes he's the least likely to be scum, based on the fact he hasn't done anything majorly concerning. 

10 hours ago, Kwatchi said:

 . My example is that both Kristel and myself have been on Tariq. Kristel from Day 1, and me as of yesterday. We detailed our proof as best we could and during that time the only acknowledgement of the argument (PR fishing) is a throw away excuse from Tariq himself. 

This got to me a little, the constant mention of Kristel, it feels like Agent Moore is trying to say "look everyone, I agreed with a confirmed town player we both had the same theory about something" 

Reagrdless, to me it's a flip between Benson and Zip, I don't like how certain zip is with his arguments, he either knows too much or is trying to influence the attention away from certain players. Benson's logic isn't adding up at all. And he feels the more summer of the two. 

Vote: Benson (Legomonorailfan)

[fhomess]

On 1/11/2019 at 5:56 PM, LegoMonorailFan said:

Lewis is town. Scum wouldn't dig themselves into a hole insisting I'm scum knowing that hole will be their grave once I flip town.

Despite some scummy behavior, this is the reason I'm not voting for Benson.  I don't think this is the type of statement a mole would make.  I don't actually agree with it logic here, but why bother stating this so matter of factly if he could have just let Officer Lewis get lynched?

4 hours ago, Tariq j said:

Reagrdless, to me it's a flip between Benson and Zip, I don't like how certain zip is with his arguments, he either knows too much or is trying to influence the attention away from certain players. Benson's logic isn't adding up at all. And he feels the more summer of the two. 

I always thought of summer as a happy season!

I think it's unlikely that Benson and Zip are both scum.  Since Benson and Alfred voted for Zip, there are now three people who've commented on Zip and then voted in other directions.  Those are Larry, Curly, and Moe... or as we know them, Larry, Kaster, and Dr. James.

Vote: Zip (Mostlytechnic)

[mostlytechnic]

5 hours ago, Tariq j said:

I apologise if it felt like I didn't address the argument against me. It was a stupid post to make I'll admit, but I wasn't fishing for PR's. One thing I will say is that other members did pick up on what I said, mostlytechnic, khascarymovie4, and Jamesn just to name a few, it wasn't just you and Kristel exclusively.

In regards to our three main choices, Zip has been giving a Townie read until today, his constant and forceful suggestion that there "absolutely all scum MUST be on the bandwagon" feels like he's trying to draw focus off those who were not. I'm not disagreeing with his claim, but his certainty that ALL scum must be on the bandwagon is strange.

I'm stuck on Benson, I was also in a PM with the late Office Lewis and he was convinced Benson was scum. I'm not totally convinced by his argument here which seems to amount too, " Bob felt scummy to me and Lewis felt town, but I voted for Lewis because I forgot about Bob" this also puts Bob on my radar because I'm thinking Benson may be playing a bit of WIFOM here I.e. calling a fellow scum scummy, but then not going ahead and voting for them. 

Then there's Agent Moore, I feel likes he's the least likely to be scum, based on the fact he hasn't done anything majorly concerning. 

This got to me a little, the constant mention of Kristel, it feels like Agent Moore is trying to say "look everyone, I agreed with a confirmed town player we both had the same theory about something" 

Reagrdless, to me it's a flip between Benson and Zip, I don't like how certain zip is with his arguments, he either knows too much or is trying to influence the attention away from certain players. Benson's logic isn't adding up at all. And he feels the more summer of the two. 

Vote: Benson (Legomonorailfan)

I was torn on how to vote until I read this. Your second paragraph there is blatantly a lie, so I'm going to 

Vote: Dr James (tariq)

I never once said that all the scum MUST be on the bandwagon. Never. In fact, I did the opposite of what you're accusing me of. People were saying that there MUST be scum NOT on the bandwagon. I argued that was a foolish assumption and that we can't ignore that all the scum COULD BE on the wagon. Never did I say that they were or that I was certain or any such thing. You're putting words in my mouth and flat lying. And then trying to say you're on the border of voting for me because of it.