Are Speed Champions sets a fantasic value or is the City line over priced?

[LegoDW]

I just finished the 2019 Speed Champions Ferrari F40 75890, McLaren Senna 75892 and Camaro ZL1 Race Car 75891 builds.  These all are great sets, $15 US IMO excellent value.  Also built the Desert Racer 60218, $10 here in the US.  Wow, the Racer was no where close to the Speed Champions.  Lower piece count, complexity, weight of set, etc. Way less then $5 worth of stuff!  Something does not seem correct here regarding pricing.

I would think it should cost a significant amount more for the Speed Champions line vs City.  Speed Champions has: Product licensing, more complex stickers, has to take longer to design these sets, increase time to make the instructions, etc.  How is TLG able to offer so much more for $5???  Has TLG reduced their profit expectation for Speed Champions or are the City sets (specifically the Desert Racer) overpriced? I have no idea on how much of each set TLG  sells, but guessing they sell 3 or more Desert Racers to a single Speed Champions.  

Guess I am trying to figure our if I should be upset for overpaying for City sets or happy TLG is discounting the Speed Champions line. This is the kind of stuff that keeps me up at night.  Ether way, very happy with the Speed Champions line and hope TLG continues the series for years to come.

 

 

 

 

[Merlict]

I don't think there's a disparity. 

You simply get more for each extra dollar on small sets, the price to 'value' ratio isn't linear. That and Speed Champs tends to have a lot of small / simple pieces. 

 

I'd love to know how much they pay for licencing on these (and Star Wars etc) sets though!

[TeriXeri]

City starter packs were amazing value minifig wise, but for 2019 I don't see any.

 

Difference per area/currency seems to play a role too:  (Comparing US and The Netherlands official LEGO shop at home).

While the speed champions are both $15/€15, and smallest City set are $10/€10, there's certainly differences the higher you go.

Some City sets like 60207 Drone Chase has 192 pieces, and costs €19.99 but $29.99. , 60214 Burger Bar Fire Rescue has 327 pieces is €29.99 and $39.99. 

 

But this also has been the case the other way around in many themes outside of City:

75951 Grindelwald´s Escape 132 pieces is €29.99 and $19.99.

75203 Hoth Medical Chamber 255 pieces is €49.99 and $29.99. that's an extreme difference, even moreso when with exchange rates , the US price is ~€26.15 that costs nearly double instead.

 

Just using a small sample of 2018/2019 sets, it really can vary widely from theme to theme.

Edited January 14, 2019 by TeriXeri

[danimarroquin]

Love the design of speed champions , it truly is the closest model to a MOC Standards 

[Vectormatic]

The $/pc ratio on speed champions has gone down a LOT through the waves though, wave 1 sets were ~150 pieces for $15, now we are at ~200, and the designs have gotten a LOT better, comparing the 2015 458GT2 with the 2018 488GT3 for instance, or the 911s from those same years.

What we do need to account for though, while piece count has gone up 33% per single car set, those set are still the same size, so those parts are getting a lot smaller on average, to facilitate all the added detail. And while generally speaking we as AFOLs tend to use $/pc as a measure, we dont really adjust for average weight a lot. There is general feeling that technic for instance has more pieces per dollar because of all the cheap/small pins and virtually no printed pieces, but generally expensive parts such as big tyres are factored in when comparing value.

in reality, piece/$ only looks at the cost of using a machine to produce a part, not the material needed for the part, which would be weight/$, the second factor is what is driving $/pc down on speed champions i think.

[Aanchir]

5 hours ago, vectormatic said:

What we do need to account for though, while piece count has gone up 33% per single car set, those set are still the same size, so those parts are getting a lot smaller on average, to facilitate all the added detail. And while generally speaking we as AFOLs tend to use $/pc as a measure, we dont really adjust for average weight a lot. There is general feeling that technic for instance has more pieces per dollar because of all the cheap/small pins and virtually no printed pieces, but generally expensive parts such as big tyres are factored in when comparing value. 

Agreed. In general, themes like Speed Champions tend to be aimed at older builders than City or Friends (generally starting at around 7+ for the smallest sets rather than 5+), and consequently tend to use smaller pieces on average. Now, some people love this, because they find small detail elements much more versatile than big chunky ones. But by comparison, other people would rather get a bigger model for their buck even if it has a lower piece count, and feel almost tricked or cheated by the large number of small parts like 1x1 and 1x2 plates, tiles, and slopes in many of today's sets and themes.

While 75890 has more than twice as many parts as 60239, which makes the price per piece seem a lot more impressive, you're still being charged a 50% higher price for a car that's the same width and height, and only about two studs longer. For some people the greater versatility of the parts and more challenging building experience are enough to justify that cost, but for others they are not.

For my part I don't care too much for Speed Champions OR City, because I'm not much of a motorhead, and am generally drawn towards character-driven fantasy themes rather than real-world, modern-day themes. But purely in terms of building level I'm generally a lot more drawn to 7+ themes like Ninjago, Legends of Chima, Elves, or Nexo Knights than 5+ themes like Castle or Pirates.

Mind you, this doesn't strictly inform which themes I buy. I've bought a few Friends sets that I was particularly impressed with, and my love of the Unikitty theme's characters is enough to largely outweigh any concerns about its decidedly simplistic building level. But there's no doubt that I tend to get more enjoyment from building more advanced sets, even when that means the pieces themselves and/or the finished models are smaller than I might get in a City or Friends set with a similar piece count.

[LegoDW]

I just held both sets in my hands again to visually compare.  While they were designed for different builders, Speed Champions still appears to be a much better value.  IMO TLG would need to add a second mini fig with a accessory (flag, tool box, something) with the Desert Racer and keep at the $10 price to come anywhere close to what you get with the $15 Speed Champions sets.  

Final thoughts, as per where this tread started, vitric is ….I am not mad for overpaying for my Racer.  Glad it was offered so I could purchase.  Not one of their best sets, but kids have a lot of fun sending this little guy down the stairs and it holds up most of the time.  Giving this build a thumbs up!

 

[Whovastron]

From what I’ve seen, city sets are hugely overpriced in the US. In the U.K. it’s probably the best value theme, it’s rare that anything has more than a 10p per piece price. But in us it seems comparable to Star Wars 

[Aanchir]

On 1/26/2019 at 4:49 AM, Whovastron said:

From what I’ve seen, city sets are hugely overpriced in the US. In the U.K. it’s probably the best value theme, it’s rare that anything has more than a 10p per piece price. But in us it seems comparable to Star Wars 

It's sort of weird how it works out like that sometimes, particularly since it doesn't seem to be a general rule even within any given theme. For example, with a lot of sets and themes, it's normal for the numerical price in GBP is lower than the numerical price in USD or EUR, which is understandable since £1 is equal to €1.15 or US$1.32. But a $10 USD Great Vehicles set like 60240 costs £10 in the UK and €10 in Germany. With bigger City sets, though, I agree that the American prices sometimes seem downright exorbitant compared to the British or German prices, perhaps most egregiously in the case of 60080.

 

[TeriXeri]

On 1/29/2019 at 4:28 PM, Aanchir said:

 I agree that the American prices sometimes seem downright exorbitant compared to the British or German prices, perhaps most egregiously in the case of 60080.

And that goes the other way around with Hoth Medical Chamber for The Netherlands like I posted above. $30 set, while €50 in NL.

Grindelwald Escape, a small 155 piece Harry Potter set is $20 in US, €30 here.

Meanwhile for 2019 City, the sky police helicopter set is $30 in US and €20 here.

 

[MAB]

On 1/29/2019 at 3:28 PM, Aanchir said:

It's sort of weird how it works out like that sometimes, particularly since it doesn't seem to be a general rule even within any given theme. For example, with a lot of sets and themes, it's normal for the numerical price in GBP is lower than the numerical price in USD or EUR, which is understandable since £1 is equal to €1.15 or US$1.32. But a $10 USD Great Vehicles set like 60240 costs £10 in the UK and €10 in Germany. With bigger City sets, though, I agree that the American prices sometimes seem downright exorbitant compared to the British or German prices, perhaps most egregiously in the case of 60080.

 

 

I doubt they set a price then translate it, but instead price the sets based on the market they are going to.

For example, that 60240 set won't sell well for £10 in the UK. No doubt some people will buy it at that price, but that is a typical supermarket shelf set that will sell OK when it hits 33% off. It is likely to be discounted by about 20% for most of its life on amazon and in supermarkets. People want discounts so they over-inflate the RRP so when it is discounted they still make their money. Whereas the larger sets are not stocked by supermarkets but are stocked by some department stores and toy stores. They will sell OK at RRP but some people will wait for the typical 33% discounts that occur a few times per year. These don't need to be shifted quite as fast as supermarkets clearing the cheap sets. But as for the Shuttle set, space is not as popular here as in the US. The Mars Rover IDEAS set, for example, was very short lived in the US,  but lasted about 3-4 months in the UK. So presumably they think they can charge a premium on things like the shuttle in the US, as it will still sell at that price.