[Review|Rant|Mod|MOC|WIP] 42083 revisited

[Jeroen Ottens]

I am still following this thread with quite some interest. And even though I like the fact that you've added ride-height adjustment, I don't particularly like your solution. It looks like the force of the suspension is carried by a tooth of the 24 crown wheel when the suspension is in the lowest position. I know it is possible to make an adjustable rideheight mechanism that works like a knee (or like an aircraft landinggear), because I recently did so in a 1:10 scale car. That is, you can design a mechanism that locks itself in place, thereby leading the forces into structure directly instead of via the axles of the switching mechanism. In my case I used a crankshaft element to get a one stud displacement of the attachment point of the spring. If the spring is angled upwards enough it will always push the crankshaft against the surface below it. There will be no torsional load on the axle anymore.

The disadvantage is of course that this form-locked position only exists at the extremes. In between you will still have a torsional load on the axle.

Here is an attempt to draw with ASCII's to explain the idea (front view):

Position 1: high,           Position 2: low

\                                    \
  \                                      \
    \                                        \
___O-+_____            ____+-O_____
The slashes represent the spring, the +-O is the crankshaft with the + as the pivot point, the ___ is the surface below the crankshaft to prevent it from turning further.

Anyway, feel free to ignore this, it is your build

 

[Ivorrr]

Hi Erik.

Thank you for doing this re-build of the 42083. Actually I just got one myself but will wait until you finish your project to build it as it looks like going to be a huge improvement over the original. 

Good work! Keep it up! 

1 hour ago, Erik Leppen said:

True. It's probably not realistic. I'm not really the person to care much about realism. So you could raise this point for most of my builds :) As long as it does what one would expect a car to do, I don't really mind how it does it. After all, is rack-and-pinion steering still accurate? I believe that in many modern cars, there's not even any mechanical link between the steering wheel and the wheels anymore. It's all electronic now.

Regarding this point, rack and pinion is still the only manufactured steering method. Electrical connections ("steer by wire") used for steering without a mechanical link is still under development by all the automotive companies. Will be comming live soon though.

So yes, rack and pinion is still accurate. 

[Jurss]

9 hours ago, Erik Leppen said:

It's an old Bionicle part, #50904, and it's actually one of my favorite Technic parts, since the time I bricklinked 8 of them.

I had seen it before and I don't have it at the moment, but I put it finally on my wanted list. I have lot of "strange" parts there, but I have somehow postponed them, and trying to build more with more often used parts.

[jb70]

Hi Erik,

Great work!
I really enjoy your idea and am looking forward to build it. 

Your work may result in a lightweight Bugatti Chiron (as one would expect from a sportscar ). If I compare my pimped-up Bugatti with the pimped-up Porsche I feel like the "heavy" Bugatti is made for straight-on roads at high speeds while the "light" Porsche is made for curvy racetracks. The Porsche just feels lighter to drive. This feeling may result in different things like:

• Bugatti has 4WD without middle differential compared to the Porsche with 2WD (maybe you could add a middle differential to your design?)
• Bugatti does not have Ackermann steering compared to the Porsche (your design looks to may have Ackermann steering or at least it should be easier to integrate as in the original design, because you reversed the steering to have the rack behind the wheels)
• Bugatti has 8 gears and 16 cylinders compared to the Porsche with 4 gears and 6 cylinders (OK, that used to be, but i am interested how your 16 cyl. engine will work compared to the original one)
• Bugatti has more weight than the Porsche (that may still remain because of the more features like 4WD, 8 gears, 16 cyl., but maybe a benefit without paddle shifters and for sure by optimizing the frame)

So finally I think, there is a lot of improvement potential based on your solution compared to the existing Bugatti MODs.

I am little bit worried, if you would loose too much stiffness in your design, because I think the original Monocoque is extremely hard (I liked that), but let's see...

So a am very interested to follow your work!

 

On 1/7/2019 at 12:35 AM, Erik Leppen said:

I should find an easy place where I can upload non-image files. Not sure if brickshelf allows .mpd. Does this image help?

By the way, maybe I should just mention the Brickshelf folder, because I don't post all pictures I upload there. http://www.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?f=576408

I use old and trusty MLCad. Simply because it's what I'm used to. I use LDView as the viewer/renderer. And yes - this separation of modules was actually an accident, but I find it works well and even with the doors and such in place, the whole thing is still modular.

 

If you are looking for a place to share .mpd, please look at https://bricksafe.com/.

For the CAD I would recommend LDCad. I also started with MLCad but I changed to LDCad while designing my pimped-up Bugatti. If you are used to use MLCad, this will be a change. But after a few days of learning (there are good tutorials) you will be much more efficient, because it supports real 3D CAD with part snapping.

[Erik Leppen]

I'm glad @jb70 has bumped the topic, because I have a nice update! In fact I had some progress for weeks, but didn't take the time to take some pictures and upload them and write a post on them. It's about time to show more progress :)

 

On ‎1‎/‎7‎/‎2019 at 10:34 PM, Jeroen Ottens said:

even though I like the fact that you've added ride-height adjustment, I don't particularly like your solution. It looks like the force of the suspension is carried by a tooth of the 24 crown wheel when the suspension is in the lowest position. I know it is possible to make an adjustable rideheight mechanism that works like a knee (or like an aircraft landinggear), because I recently did so in a 1:10 scale car. That is, you can design a mechanism that locks itself in place, thereby leading the forces into structure directly instead of via the axles of the switching mechanism.

The disadvantage is of course that this form-locked position only exists at the extremes. In between you will still have a torsional load on the axle.

Yes, you're right on this. Actually, there is a "stop" when the suspension is in the low position (when the 2L beams are pointing upwards), but there is no stop when the suspension is in high position (when the 2L beams are pointing outwards). There is plenty of space though to add such a stop, and I think I should really do that. I played with one solution that was easy to install, but it was too weak and didn't fit. But this is definitely doable.

In any case, your ascii drawings are nice

You can see the stop in the low position here (the red bush, gray 3L axle and gray 2x2 connector). it's not ideal, but it was easy to fit there. But given the modular nature of the build, it should be easy to take the axle module out and make a better stop, and one at the other extreme too.

One little problem there is the 7.5 degree offset between left and right. If space permitts, a ssytem with knob gears and only one gear driven by the worm would be preferable.

 

On ‎1‎/‎8‎/‎2019 at 12:05 AM, Ivorrr said:

Regarding this point, rack and pinion is still the only manufactured steering method. Electrical connections ("steer by wire") used for steering without a mechanical link is still under development by all the automotive companies. Will be comming live soon though.

Ok, thanks for this. I didn't expect this, so I learned something new :)

 

On ‎1‎/‎8‎/‎2019 at 8:13 AM, Jurss said:

I had seen it before and I don't have it at the moment, but I put it finally on my wanted list. I have lot of "strange" parts there, but I have somehow postponed them, and trying to build more with more often used parts.

I like the idea of using common parts too. Especially for builds that could be interesting for others to rebuild. Butyeah, these oddball parts may come in very handy in some situations. Similar case is the black 1x3x7 beam I found first in the boom of 8421, which is also a Bionicle part.

On ‎1‎/‎21‎/‎2019 at 10:05 PM, jb70 said:

Hi Erik,

Great work!
I really enjoy your idea and am looking forward to build it. 

Your work may result in a lightweight Bugatti Chiron

[snip]

I am little bit worried, if you would loose too much stiffness in your design, because I think the original Monocoque is extremely hard (I liked that), but let's see…

I think my version is lighter than the official set, but I don't think it's any lighter than the Porsche. I expect to end up somewhere above 2700 parts, so a bit more than the Porsche. But yes, the Original design of Box 2, which builds the monocoque, is very stiff. The problem happens at the joint between Box 1 and Box 2. I think my version of the monocoque is not that stiff, but it's also lighter. Also, a lot of the stiffness is due to the four dark-tan 5x9 double-bent beams, which I kept unchanged. This helps strengthen the roof tremendously. But I changed the A-pillars (windcreen sides) to increase strength. More on that later.

Also, Ackermann steering will still be hard I'm afraid. I tried changing the arm of the hub using 2L beams, but either it doesn't fit inside the rim (the internal space of the rim is less than 7 studs) or steering angle is severely limited. That said, I didn't search very long or hard for good Ackermann solutions (I'm one of those people who don't really care that much about Ackermann geometry), and chose for a relatively simple steering system with a decent radius.

On ‎1‎/‎21‎/‎2019 at 10:05 PM, jb70 said:

If you are looking for a place to share .mpd, please look at https://bricksafe.com/.

For the CAD I would recommend LDCad. I also started with MLCad but I changed to LDCad while designing my pimped-up Bugatti. If you are used to use MLCad, this will be a change. But after a few days of learning (there are good tutorials) you will be much more efficient, because it supports real 3D CAD with part snapping.

Thanks for the tips, I'll look into bricksafe and LDCad. Probably not for this project yet (I rather try new software with a small test project), but it's good to know about it. Thanks! :)

 

Anyhow, the progress!

In fact, it already almost looks like the original :D But with a few changes (also see the picture below):

First of all the change on the dark azure part.

• I changed the paneling of the doors. I didn't use the large 2x5x11 panels, but instead 2 smaller 2x5x7 panels back-to-back. Reason: freeing the large panels for the hood
• Inspired by a change on the Improvements topic (I don't know by whom) I used the large 2x5x11 panels for the front hood.
• Also I have been less careful about the coloring of the door hinge. The original set has the whole door hinge nicely in dark azure, I needed some piece that don't exist in that color, so I used black there. This is a step back, I agree, but I wanted the door mechanism (On the two 1/2 pins below the door hinges there should be a 1x2 panel in gray.)
• I haven't yet found a solution for the dark azure flex axles running over the front. The hard part is the place where the windscreen sides meet the hinges of the hood - a lot happens there in a relatively small space
• The 2x3x11 panels above the front wheels are sticking out, because they collide with some parts that hold the hood. I want to find a solution for this.
• The Original set has the tiny 1x2x5 panels quite hidden behind the horseshoe. I replaced those with beams (not visible on this photo) so I could use those panels on the hood. This "fills" the hood slightly better.

Then the changes on the dark blue part:

• The original A pillars had some things I didn't like. The blue plate/tile things were only connected at the top, and the main construction used only an axle. So I used an 11L beam, which fortunately exists in dark-blue; connected at the top by 2x2x2 connectors.
• The 15L beam at the top of the windscreen was in a perfect spot, but rotating it 90 degrees meant I could connect the ends to the 2x2x2 connectors, meaning these three beams form a strong connection between roof and front. To hide the holes I covered them with tiles.
• I replaced the black 19L flex axle at the very bottom front bumper with a black 7L plus some axles, so I could use the 19L as the bottom of the windscreen (the set uses two 11L-or-so flex axles)
• The original side mirrors were kinda simple with only one panel, so I added some black plates on there, and an orange indicator because why not.

This shows the door mechanism. It feels a bit flimsy, but it works. Maybe I change the connection points.

 

Then the rear wing. To my own surprise I found a mechanism I personally find rather cool. It is operated from the sides, a spot very similar to the set, but with a knob on both sides instead of this key thing. (the yellow axles and brown connectors indicate that this axle is functional, rather than structural)

It's not "double-acting", it changes in one single movement, but it does change the angle when it goes up. It goes up a little less than the version of the set though, and it has a link in the middle of the wing, rather than at 2 sides. Also, the knob turns the other way than you might expect. But I still really like it, so I probably keep it despite these flaws. I'm not 100% happy with all the small dark-blue connectors on the wing itself, but I ran out of 2x4 beams, and 1x5 beams don't seem to exist in dark-blue.

Finally, for the heck of it, an underside picture :D

That's it for now. It feels almost done, but I still want to tweak a few things, such as the dark-azure flex axles of the front, the suspension stops, door mechanism and some other small things. So still plenty of things to do :D

[BrickbyBrickTechnic]

That is a beautiful underside. I absolutely love this topic; these changes are very interesting and exciting.

On the other hand, the dark azure part (especially toward the outside of the hood at the fenders) is looking rough.

I know you don't like making them, but could a video be possible once this is all said and done?

Edited January 22, 2019 by BrickbyBrickTechnic

[SamuelYsc]

Very beautiful setup!
And i have check the suspension file that you have share with us, and i found out it is brilliant!

And i am trying to use that sort of idea to put in my Chrion or Vision too.

But 0 rocess so far XD

Keep going! it will never be enough!

[letsbuild]

I'm following this topic as I've been looking for a better solution to 42083's goal. Although Pimp My Bugatti is very functional, I don't like it as much as I do this project.

[superdog]

I think LEGO company  always keep pieces larger and larger but function still very poor.

Erik Leppen  you proved it can made more cool function by use less parts. GREAT WORK!

Lego's designers really should take a look at this post. maybe official designer spend 40% time on outshape build, 50% time to do AD. 10% time to design mechanical work.

Edited February 18, 2019 by superdog

[astyanax]

Sorry for resurrecting your old thread, @Erik Leppen! I got very interested in the virtual model of this MOD, but couldn't find a link in this thread, on your website, or anywhere else. (Maybe I'm just going blind...) Can you share it?

[Artemis67]

Very impressive work. Did you release the instructions for it? Can’t find them anywhere. Thanks

[joshbalthrop]

On 1/21/2019 at 4:05 PM, jb70 said:

Hi Erik,

Great work!
I really enjoy your idea and am looking forward to build it. 

Your work may result in a lightweight Bugatti Chiron (as one would expect from a sportscar ). If I compare my pimped-up Bugatti with the pimped-up Porsche I feel like the "heavy" Bugatti is made for straight-on roads at high speeds while the "light" Porsche is made for curvy racetracks. The Porsche just feels lighter to drive. This feeling may result in different things like:

• Bugatti has 4WD without middle differential compared to the Porsche with 2WD (maybe you could add a middle differential to your design?)
• Bugatti does not have Ackermann steering compared to the Porsche (your design looks to may have Ackermann steering or at least it should be easier to integrate as in the original design, because you reversed the steering to have the rack behind the wheels)
• Bugatti has 8 gears and 16 cylinders compared to the Porsche with 4 gears and 6 cylinders (OK, that used to be, but i am interested how your 16 cyl. engine will work compared to the original one)
• Bugatti has more weight than the Porsche (that may still remain because of the more features like 4WD, 8 gears, 16 cyl., but maybe a benefit without paddle shifters and for sure by optimizing the frame)

So finally I think, there is a lot of improvement potential based on your solution compared to the existing Bugatti MODs.

I am little bit worried, if you would loose too much stiffness in your design, because I think the original Monocoque is extremely hard (I liked that), but let's see...

So a am very interested to follow your work!

 

If you are looking for a place to share .mpd, please look at https://bricksafe.com/.

For the CAD I would recommend LDCad. I also started with MLCad but I changed to LDCad while designing my pimped-up Bugatti. If you are used to use MLCad, this will be a change. But after a few days of learning (there are good tutorials) you will be much more efficient, because it supports real 3D CAD with part snapping.

Great work.  Do you happen to have a parts list for your modifications and or instructions?