Fantasy themes, Elves, and how dolls got in the way.

[jemm13]

So, I've been pretty miffed about dolls since they came out. I actually was pretty interested in the friends set as a concept as there is a market for it, I just think the dolls were a misstep. Elves, on the otherhand, made dolls even more of a misstep, turning it into a tragedy.

For background, I love fantasy, and I love Dungeons & Dragons, and Tolkien, you get the idea. For a while, we've been rather deprived of a proper fantasy setting, and I feel elves could have alleviated to downright fixing this problem. However, I feel that the potential of the theme was diminished when they decided that Dolls and the more 'cutesy' molds would be an integral part of the theme. I don't dislike, in fact I heavily approve of the color decisions, both from a moc perspective, and a theming one to depict a more fantastical and fey fantasy setting. Hell, I'll probably pick up these sets at some point when depicting my D&D groups going through the feywilds! The hair pieces they went with are perfect for stuff like Eldarin, Wood elves, and high elves, even more D&D style gnomes in their younger years (if you haven't picked up on it yet, I'm always hoping Hasbro sells of Wizards of the Coast so that LEGO has an excuse to pick up D&D as a theme!).

But going back to the dolls themselves, they lack a great amount of customization (I'm pretty sure the forums have threads on this already), and I feel were a wasted opportunity for more minifigure designs: heads, torsos, legs, accessories, all muddled by introducing the dolls. At least the hair is compatible. I understand that LEGO is trying to vie for a share in the girl's toy market, but I feel that it's not the best way to go about it. For one, they isolate a lot of the LEGO market by using the dolls in the first place, as I know some AFOLs don't like using them as they have very little range of setting or look. Why did LEGO decided to place dolls in one corner of the market when they could have made a really appealing all-rounder simply by using regular minifigures and more interesting molds? Do the dolls have more fans than I give credit for?

So, I guess the reason for posting this is, do you think LEGO will come out with a new fantasy set soon? I know Nexo Knights had a really small wave that probably marks its end (didn't keep up with news if it was cancelled or not), and how long is Elves lasting? Are they going to release more Tolkien universe sets with the new Netflix show? Are they ever going to make a new original IP or revive Castle in the near future? I'm not caught up in the current rumor mill or what's been revealed for next year, so I'm wondering if any of this has been addressed recently.

[Aanchir]

The mini-dolls were really one of the silver bullets that helped the LEGO Friends theme become more successful with girls than any other LEGO theme (besides perhaps Duplo) had ever been. The decision to launch a whole new style of minifigure was not made lightly, but LEGO's anthropological research of over 6,000 girls and their families and subsequent concept/product testing consistently reinforced the idea that the minifigure was one of the main factors alienating girls from enjoying traditional play themes as much as boys, even if they got just as much enjoyment out of the core building experience.

Naturally, some girls did already like existing figures and themes, but they were a small minority among the boys who overwhelmingly embraced those themes. And contrary to the idea that the mini-doll keeps girls from incorporating these themes into larger LEGO collections, many girls who only became fans of LEGO because of themes like Friends and Elves have gone on to collect other LEGO themes like City, Creator, Ninjago, and Star Wars on the side. Likewise, many boys have indulged in Friends and Elves on occasion. From my personal experience, this is not surprising… I can't tell you how many sets from 2001 to 2009 I first took an interest in because they contained parts that would enhance my Bionicle collection, even if I never became as passionate about those sets and themes as I was about Bionicle. Themes don't by any means require compatible figures for kids to enjoy them on their own merits or find ways to incorporate the parts or sets together in their play.

Even if LEGO Elves could have appealed to a wider audience by including minifigures, a bigger part that audience would have probably ended up consisting of 7–14 year old boys who were already enjoying other minifigure-based themes like Star Wars, Ninjago, Super Heroes, Legends of Chima, Ultra Agents, Nexo Knights, etc. Consequently, Elves would have needed to compete with all of those themes for kids' attention, and the overall number of kids enjoying LEGO would not have been able to grow nearly as much as it could by reaching out to kids who weren't already being targeted by numerous other theme, and being tailored to those kids' interests. Don't forget that us AFOLs are generally a small minority among MOST of LEGO's bigger themes, whether they're aimed at boys or girls.

I suspect that with both Nexo Knights and Elves presumably on the brink of retirement, there will be a new "Castle" theme launched soon — possibly as soon as next summer. That said, I will miss Elves a lot, as it certainly appealed much more to me than any other Castle theme ever managed to. I hope a lot of the lessons Elves and Nexo Knights taught the designers carry over to whatever Castle theme comes next!

[Peppermint_M]

Just my two pence.

My sister and I have less than two years between us, we were exposed to the same TV, books and schooling. Mum and Dad treated us and raised us in the same way. However, we are such a different pair. I loved LEGO and cars and sport, not a girly girl at all. My sister loved dolls and dresses. She was never so attracted to LEGO, just as I was not a huge fan of Barbie. 

When the minidolls arrived, even though we were both adults at this point, she was interested in LEGO set news, in having LEGO for herself. She adores Elves and the Princesses line and actually has a box of her own LEGO now. She is even reaching into the idea of MOCs (I keep trying to get her to join EB).

Me though? I am not too fussed on minidolls. I love the new colours introduced and the builds are great from the minidoll sets. But I am more a fan of the minifigure for my MOCs. (Also, loved the series for Elves on Netflix). I think LEGO made an excellent choice in minidolls for attracting new fans to their products.

As for the rest: Nexo Knights is over, Castle Fans in the majority hated it. There are no more LotR sets so far as I know and the market for "castle" seems to be much more mature than the true target market TLG has in mind (Game of Thrones. Not for kids...). 

Elves is also over. LEGO sets are now saturated with terribly boring Star Wars and Superhero sets.

 

 

[jemm13]

Guess I never really looked into how popular and useful the dolls were for capturing that market! I understand why Elves would be super attractive for a more girl focused line, and it's not like it alienates boys from liking it! I guess my qualms are the fact that some of the molds used aren't that appealing to me, and I like the idea of making cute designs for that purpose, so it's more of how it was designed as to what was designed. I feel that they should have included or made polybags with minifigure versions of the characters so the fans that like Elves could transition to the rest of Lego's lines, but I understand why an expansion of them was needed. I'm just miffed that I can's see the great designs in minifigure form! They would be so great for fantasy builds (and my D&D characters)!

Honestly I'm hoping that the new fantasy theme includes design elements from both philosophies. I like the grittiness of the last castle theme, but that can be really intense and alienating, which is why Kingdom did a return to form, but that wasn't my jam. I liked castle for the fantasy elements. I feel a theme with more nature and ruins with light grey buildings, old bridges, and forgotten castles could be mixed with fantastic forests and crystal caverns with the focus on more fantastical creatures and monsters, as well as questing adventurers, romantic castles, wondrous wizards, magic, and great heroes.... God I wish Hasbro didn't own D&D, their building line is so cheap and lacking in quality.

Also, I feel doing so much techno-fantasy (neo-fantasy?) is a detriment for attracting fans who want a certain aesthetic that they haven't gotten in a while (with the ending of the Hobbit line), and I feel Nexo Knights didn't have the best design choices, and some sets felt too clunky or tied to a design concept that was either dead on arrival or not well implemented, those rock creatures were pretty bad (and an expansion on the demons would have been welcome form day 1 to maybe include either good-guy variations, or more regular parts, like hair with horns and pointy ears, more relaxed or human-like faces. Same with the rock guys). Having a more inventive variety of the enemies would be better for appealing to kids, and some of the sets had lackluster builds. And they STILL refuse to put knees on larger humanoid builds! What's up with that!? Exo-Force did it GREAT!

And yeah, Star Wars sets have been really lackluster these past few years (it's almost like Disney's bloated corporate heads would have something to do with that, or something) and the superhero sets haven't been that great. Doesn't help that the licensing fees contribute to more inflated pricing than in previous years leading to rather empty feeling sets. Minecraft had the same problem for a cycle of sets this year, all being priced at $15usd and being rather sparse. (some of that has to do with the density of bricks, but the sets I'm talking about were pretty egregious by the line's own standards). I feel an original space theme with more focus on cool aliens (that aren't just bad guys) and a wider variety of ships and locals would be awesome. Space police would have been great if it span off into a space-city theme with hover bikes, industrial buildings, restaurants, robots. Part of me wonders if Lucasfilms or Disney is forcing LEGO to not create its own space theme as it would compete with Star Wars' and part of Marvel's market share.

A proper adventure theme would be great too. Bring back Johnny! Bring back the 30s adventurer feel!

[Digger of Bricks]

1 hour ago, jemm13 said:

So, I guess the reason for posting this is, do you think LEGO will come out with a new fantasy set soon? I know Nexo Knights had a really small wave that probably marks its end (didn't keep up with news if it was cancelled or not), and how long is Elves lasting? Are they going to release more Tolkien universe sets with the new Netflix show? Are they ever going to make a new original IP or revive Castle in the near future? I'm not caught up in the current rumor mill or what's been revealed for next year, so I'm wondering if any of this has been addressed recently.

Many of us are just hanging on for news of any kind of new in-house action/adventure theme, be it smaller-scaled or all-out "big bang" scale. As I mentioned over on the Elves topic, new in-house themes of a smaller scale have been launched before in the middle of the year, so you might not have to wait until late into 2019 for news of a new line. 

Just now, jemm13 said:

A proper adventure theme would be great too. Bring back Johnny! Bring back the 30s adventurer feel!

AMEN to this, especially on the time period!  

[Blacksmith82]

I play with my daughter (5yo) by mixing her Elves with my old Castle sets ( crusaders, black falcons...) i think it s a good way to integrate minidolls and minifig in the same playground.

[x105Black]

I wish they had made a version of the Nexo Knights theme for girls with minidolls and a version of the Elves theme for boys with minifigures...

[Blacksmith82]

Elves-minifig-forboys are just the former 90s Forestman 

[Lyichir]

It's worth pointing out that Elves lasted four years—not a bad lifespan for a theme at all (for comparison, that's longer than pretty much every other "big bang" theme except Ninjago, which has defied expectations from the get-go). So it's not like the use of mini-dolls was holding the theme back substantially.

Ultimately I loved the mini-dolls in Elves, which had a consistently high standard of quality even if slightly less articulated than traditional figs.

[MandyNeko]

I like the minidolls.  I had some Lego as a kid, but not much of it. Mostly the buckets of bricks and a few medieval minifigures. I didn't hang onto my original stuff and it was donated when I grew out of it.

When I returned to Lego as an adult, Elves really captured my interest. If only they had existed when I was a little girl, I would have had so much more Lego in my collection - the colors, the characters, the shiny transparent pieces were exactly my style. I tracked down many of the Year 1 and 2 out-of-print sets, and bought lots of the new ones. I love the beauty of the minidolls (Elves and Princesses both), while I am "meh" about the minifigure (I have some knights and things in a box but I rarely display them). I only wish we had more random Elves - I have several of each main character and would love to populate my builds with more characters. I understand why they released the core characters again and again, but more variation would have been nice. Perhaps I'll need to break out the paint and start customizing a few of my own.

Interestingly, my mom loves the minidolls too. She has commented about how beautiful the little faces are. If they had existed 25-30 years ago, I probably would have received many minidoll sets for gifts (especially Elves and Princesses). I think that's part of the success of the minidoll lines: if the parents like them, they are more likely to buy them for their own children.

Would Elves have been this successful if they'd used minifigures?  Maybe. But I think the minidolls really help with the detail of the clothing and faces, which helps with such a detail-packed series. The minidolls seem to fit with the rounded aesthetic more than the minifigures would have. Just my opinion.

[Aanchir]

With regard to the design of the mini-doll, I think some of its strengths compared to the minifigure are often ignored. Most obviously, it is more realistic in its shaping and proportions — it still has sort of the same oversized heads, feet, and hands as the classic minifigure, but the width of its legs, arms, and waist are nowhere near as exaggerated as those of the minifigure. A mini-doll's waist circumference is around half their height, so about equivalent to a 32-inch waist on an adult 64 inches tall. A typical minifigure's waist circumference is around 1.15 times their height, the equivalent of a 73 inch waist on an adult 64 inches tall! It bewilders me that people see this difference and assume the mini-doll is the one presenting an unhealthy or unrealistic body image.

Also, some people seem to be bothered that the mini-doll has separate body molds for male and female characters, treating it as Barbie-like objectification. In fact, there are four mini-doll body types which can be loosely categorized as "boy" (narrow arms/shoulders, flat chest), "girl" (narrow arms/shoulders, slightly rounded bust), "man" (wide arms/shoulders, slight barrel chest), and "woman" (narrow arms/shoulders, more pronounced bust). But most adult characters actually use the "boy" and "girl" body types, with the "man" and "woman" body types reserved almost exclusively for parents and teachers. And overall, I feel like the the mini-doll body shapes allow for a lot more subtlety in differentiating male and female characters than printed minifigure decorations, which often require crisply defined contours and shading to communicate breasts, curvy waists/hips, or muscular abs/pecs. Comparing DC Super Hero Girls mini-dolls to their DC Super Heroes minifigure counterparts, even aside from their often more form-fitting or revealing costumes, the latter tend to seem much more idealized/objectified.

There are also practical advantages of the mini-doll over the classic minifigure that aren't as often acknowledged as their disadvantages. Because of their narrower shoulders, it's much easier to fit two mini-dolls side by side in a six-stud-wide vehicle without any kind of jumper plate or studs-not-on-top shenanigans. The mini-doll can wear a lot more styles of dress/skirt/gown without impeding their ability to bend their legs a full 90 degrees forward. The larger shape of mini-dolls' feet also allows them to have somewhat more detailed shoes… for example, sneakers like Emily's from LEGO Elves would not be very practical with a traditional minifigure since there's not enough space on the top surface of the foot to add printed laces. And a mini-doll can generally reach her arms up over her head or behind their body without them colliding with the hair/headgear pieces as often as they would on a traditional minifigure, whose arm hinge is positioned at an angle.

[x105Black]

Despite the advantages to minidolls (I acknowledge there are some valid points above), it's still a matter of preference and a subjective view.  From what I've heard, there are many many people with a preference for minifigures.  Part of that is tradition, part of that is functionality, and part of that is a downright dislike of minidolls.

I am also glad that minidolls exist for the fact that they do help to introduce more people to the joy and fun of LEGO.  That's always a valuable thing.

Still, for my own purposes the minidoll is not a viable option.  In my last post here I said :

On 12/24/2018 at 5:11 AM, x105Black said:

I wish they had made a version of the Nexo Knights theme for girls with minidolls and a version of the Elves theme for boys with minifigures...

I say that a bit selfishly.  The reason for this is that I prefer a medieval fantasy style.  Now Elves wasn't particularly medieval and more purely fantasy, but I think it still fits.  And it definitely appeals to me more than the technological knights of Nexo Knights.  Also, I liked the builds and the fantastical nature of Elves in general.  I think it would have been interesting to see them reversed, with Nexo Knights (or similar) marketed to girls with minidolls and Elves (or similar) marketed to a more generic audience and / or boys with minifigures.  I wonder if they might have both found the same levels of success or failure if they had been reversed.

Honestly, LEGO probably played it the right way, and they worked at expanding their audience.  I say that because in this reversed situation I think that Elves would have been just as popular (maybe more) overall, and Nexo Knights would have had the same struggles (or greater struggles).  The main difference would be that I don't think girls would have been pulled as deeply into a Nexo Knights theme with minidolls, and if the minidolls are drawing girls into play then they wouldn't have found Elves as attractive a theme with minifigures.

[Pdaitabird]

@Aanchir has made some good points about the limitations of the current minifig design, even apart from the discussion about minidolls. It got me thinking that minifigs themselves are due for an update. The biggest drawback, as others have noted, is that the minifig is about 4-wide with its arms down. Train builders, for example, have to go to ridiculous lengths to get two rows of seats in a passenger car.

What if the minifig was updated with a torso and legs based more on the battle droid? (Of course, modified to look more human and solid!) It could probably use the same arms/hands and head, be about the same height, and fit in a 2-wide space. How would the community react to such a change? I, for one, would welcome it. But that may be because I see minifigures as train accessories -- part of the background scenery rather than the focus. What do you minifig collectors think?

[Poltergeist]

I don’t think changing the minifigure would go over very well, because right now all my minifigures are compatible. But if you made them skinnier like you’re talking about they wouldn’t work with the older ones.

[Aanchir]

3 hours ago, Poltergeist said:

I don’t think changing the minifigure would go over very well, because right now all my minifigures are compatible. But if you made them skinnier like you’re talking about they wouldn’t work with the older ones.

Not to mention, the narrower hips and arms of the mini-doll and battle droid are the very reason that they don't have independently articulated legs or wrists. Traditional minifigure hip and wrist joints are already pretty delicate even with the classic minifig's much chunkier leg and arm designs (something that has also impeded LEGO's attempts at designing a fully transparent minifigure). The practical strengths and weaknesses of the mini-doll design aren't independent of one another — their weaknesses are the cost of their strengths.

What's really ironic is that on the whole, the mini-doll is one of the most minifigure-compatible alternate figure designs LEGO has introduced to date. Compared to Technic or Belville or Bionicle or Jack Stone or Fabuland figures, mini-dolls are designed for compatibility with far more of the same parts used with minifigures: headgear, weapons/utensils/accessories, doors, windows, bikes, motorbikes, skateboards, roller skates, ice skates, skis, etc. Yet as a result, people seem to have a harder time crediting them with unique appeal or value that a conventional minifigure lacks.

[TeriXeri]

I hope minifigs won't change, I had a Mega Bloks articulated figure in the past, and I don't think it was any better then a Minifig despite more movement. It was even wider too.

Turning minifigs into Battle Droids or Squire Bot designs would keep me away from LEGO more then Minidoll sets even would. (even if the Elves/Friends builds have been great)

I think they should put the medium-legs in more sets however going forward, as the "kids" legs are just annoying for sitting down.

Edited December 30, 2018 by TeriXeri

[x105Black]

On 12/30/2018 at 11:23 AM, TeriXeri said:

Turning minifigs into Battle Droids or Squire Bot designs would keep me away from LEGO more then Minidoll sets even would. (even if the Elves/Friends builds have been great)

Same here!

[rodiziorobs]

I started lukewarm on minidolls--the lack of wrist articulation got me initially, but I got over that quickly enough.

The next thing I got hung up on was the difficulty in customizing--Elves especially just repeated the same torsos, and Friends were too City for me (I prefer sci-fi or fantasy--very few Friends dolls fit the bill).

Thankfully, more torsos have been introduced, including a ton of familiar but new Elves characters, so customizing is much easier--and the sci-fi end of things is being addressed with TLM2 sets, which is my long-hoped-for theme of Friends in Space! There is still a lot of ground to cover, and the dolls will probably never have the same breadth of customizability as the minifigure (due to the 'fig's decades-long headstart) but its getting better.

I still like minifigures, and will still collect and use and customize them, but minidolls have worked their way permanently into my building patterns alongside the noble 'fig, and I'm glad to have 'em.

Edited January 3, 2019 by rodiziorobs
spelling, auto-correct, punctuation, the usual

[Lordofdragonss]

Just follow my mindset - Don't treat Minidolls as Minidolls. Treat them as figures.
Lego made so many unique minifig like creatures (Rock monsters, Angrybirds figs, Fabufigs for example).
I use Minidolls as completly new race in my world that coexist with other figs. It will make your world more unique.
Just look at my old pic:
https://imgur.com/a/OjOFmNM

Edited January 4, 2019 by Lordofdragonss

[Sarah]

On 1/3/2019 at 10:46 AM, rodiziorobs said:

I started lukewarm on minidolls--the lack of wrist articulation got me initially, but I got over that quickly enough.

The next thing I got hung up on was the difficulty in customizing--Elves especially just repeated the same torsos, and Friends were too City for me (I prefer sci-fi or fantasy--very few Friends dolls fit the bill).

Thankfully, more torsos have been introduced, including a ton of familiar but new Elves characters, so customizing is much easier--and the sci-fi end of things is being addressed with TLM2 sets, which is my long-hoped-for theme of Friends in Space! There is still a lot of ground to cover, and the dolls will probably never have the same breadth of customizability as the minifigure (due to the 'fig's decades-long headstart) but its getting better.

I still like minifigures, and will still collect and use and customize them, but minidolls have worked their way permanently into my building patterns alongside the noble 'fig, and I'm glad to have 'em.

 

The Youtuber ellieV toys does a lot with customizing Minidolls.  Both my daughter and I enjoy watching her videos.

For Example: Harry Potter Minidolls: 

 

[x105Black]

No matter how you feel about Minidolls, you have to agree that they are divisive.  And because of that, you have to see how their introduction and inclusion can be somewhat problematic.  They aren't a problem in and of themselves, but because they existed there was no good medieval fantasy theme for those that don't like them.  But that's just one example.

I guess what I'm saying is that I wouldn't mind Minidolls so much if there were 2 versions of every theme: one with Minidolls and one with Minifigures.  Friends works in this way, because it's largely a City-type theme with Minidolls.  DC Super Hero Girls worked in this way as well, because there are Minifigure sets under the DC Super Heroes line.  Elves doesn't work because there's no Minifigure analogue.  Nexo Knights certainly didn't fill that need, it was a sci-fi theme with medieval fantasy elements shoehorned in.  That's why Elves bothers me more than the others I mentioned.

Just my thoughts on the matter.

[MAB]

As to people hating them, I think the question "Would you prefer to have Friends sets / Elves sets with minidolls, or for them not to exist at all?" is probably the most pertinent. I somehow doubt the existence of these themes is stopping particular minifigure based themes being made.

If there was reason for LEGO to make boys' Elves sets (meaning minifigure based elf sets), at the same time as mindoll Elves sets, they would have done so. I imagine they didn't due to competition - not necessarily competition between the minifigure and minidoll sets, but between  minifigure based Elves and NK. Although relatively different subjects, they would both be in-house fantasy. No doubt LEGO has sales data when they release similar types of competing sets at the same time (such as PQ and AC, and Ninjago vs Chima, Ninjago vs NK, etc).

1 hour ago, x105Black said:

No matter how you feel about Minidolls, you have to agree that they are divisive.

 

Minifigs are too. Some people believe minifigures have killed "proper" LEGO sets. That LEGO should be only about building with bricks and not about collecting minifigures.

[x105Black]

8 hours ago, MAB said:

As to people hating them, I think the question "Would you prefer to have Friends sets / Elves sets with minidolls, or for them not to exist at all?" is probably the most pertinent. I somehow doubt the existence of these themes is stopping particular minifigure based themes being made.

If there was reason for LEGO to make boys' Elves sets (meaning minifigure based elf sets), at the same time as mindoll Elves sets, they would have done so. I imagine they didn't due to competition - not necessarily competition between the minifigure and minidoll sets, but between  minifigure based Elves and NK. Although relatively different subjects, they would both be in-house fantasy. No doubt LEGO has sales data when they release similar types of competing sets at the same time (such as PQ and AC, and Ninjago vs Chima, Ninjago vs NK, etc).

Fair points.  I'm not saying that the existence of these themes is stopping things from being made so much as I'm saying that LEGO is less likely to do multiple in-house themes using the same / similar subject matter, and that if they do one with Minidolls they are unlikely to do another with Minifigures concurrently.  And I understand that Elves and Nexo Knights are ostensibly in-house fantasy themes, there's a big difference between them when it comes down to the context of fantasy.  I'm hoping that next we will see a medieval fantasy Minifigure theme.  I assume a science fiction theme with Minidolls could exist at the same time, but another fantasy-based theme would be less likely.

[Aanchir]

On 1/10/2019 at 4:29 AM, x105Black said:

No matter how you feel about Minidolls, you have to agree that they are divisive.  And because of that, you have to see how their introduction and inclusion can be somewhat problematic.  They aren't a problem in and of themselves, but because they existed there was no good medieval fantasy theme for those that don't like them.  But that's just one example.

If the mini-doll had not existed, who's even to say that LEGO Friends would have been enough of a knockout success to justify expanding the portfolio of girl-targeted products so much further in so short a time? Also, considering that Nexo Knights was developed as a new take on Castle and there's usually only one new incarnation of LEGO Castle every three or four years, I don't really think it's realistic to act as though a theme like Elves would have necessarily been developed using minifigures if the mini-doll had not existed.

What's more, I also feel like AFOL complaints tend to be framed relative to expectations. If there hadn't been any mini-doll to begin with, I can't imagine Castle fans would have enthusiastically accepted the other "girly" characteristics of LEGO Elves because "at least it's not using a new doll like figure", any more than they were willing to accept the "jellybean knights" of Knights' Kingdom II because "at least they're not high tech cyber knights".

So even if an Elves theme with traditional minifigures sounds tolerable to you in hindsight (as can be said for a lot of "I might have enjoyed _____ just fine if it had been less _____" sorts of comments), I don't think the wider AFOL community is too likely to simply accept a theme that defies their expectations because it could hypothetically have been even further from what they actually wished to see. I imagine most of us have at least a few sets, themes, or subthemes even within our preferred genres that we have skipped for being even just mildly underwhelming compared to our expectations, and later ended up kicking ourselves for not getting when we had the chance!

[x105Black]

Yeah, that's fair.  I don't necessarily think that what you've laid out is really the case for how the themes came to be.  I think it's more likely that they decided to take Nexo Knights in that direction at that time with the idea that Elves would be happening concurrently.  Since Elves was sticking to (a more girly version of) traditional fantasy, they could take the opportunity to branch out into sci-fi with Nexo Knights, giving them what is ostensibly a Castle and Space theme in one.  I think this may have been a less likely experiment without an Elves theme, and I think that any Castle theme that existed in place of Elves and Nexo Knights could have fallen somewhere in between the two.  Just a possibility, very wishful thinking on my part.