Chances of an Emerald Night re-release?

[Eaglefan344]

What do you think the chances we ever see this set re-released are? I am debating dropping $300 on a used set. I wasn't into LEGO in 2009 so I really don't know if this set sold well. I know it's one of the most sought after in the AFOL community though.

[cptkent]

Slim to none.

But I wish they'd so something similar - an 'mini' Emerald Night. Call it the Emerald Dawn. Perhaps a 1-2-1 version, no coal tender. (Buy 2 to get enough parts for an EN). Carriages different, but matching.

That would preserve the EN second hand market, let people by their own, and allow the rest of us to get more carriages!

Edited November 28, 2018 by cptkent

[Daedalus304]

While LEGO has done re-releases in the past, such as the Metroliner, they don't really do them as a business model. I don't think it's likely at all that the Emerald Night set will be re-released. There always is the chance that they'll do a new Creator Expert steam engine in the same vein as the Emerald Night, but LEGO's pretty reluctant with trains so I wouldn't hold my breath.

AFAIK the Emerald Night sold very well - it's the only LEGO set I've ever bought 4 of. It's a very nice steam engine, for a LEGO set, and it is a pretty good introduction to a higher level of LEGO Train than the standard City fare. At $300 I personally would look into a custom build, but it's all down to what you want really.

[Eaglefan344]

I may just do a custom red or blue one and replace the carriage windows with the standard non-train ones. 

Buying through Bricklink is extremely frustrating though. The train chassis for the carriage on auto select was going to be $25 when bricks & pieces has them for $2.45. Looks like I'll just have to manually add everything through b&p and get the rest from BL. 

[Lyichir]

Both of the recent Black Friday rereleases (Taj Mahal and Vestas Wind Turbine) have been in ten year anniversary years. So if Lego chooses to do something similar for Black Friday of next year, I think the Emerald Night would be the strongest contender. It's a widely beloved 2009 set that doesn't rely on retired molds (at least, not ones that haven't been replaced by lookalikes). And the alternatives would be a modular building (which they've never done rereleases of), the Winter Village Toy Shop (which has already been rereleased semi-recently), or the Grand Carousel (which has recently been supplanted by a newer, better carousel set).

Edited November 29, 2018 by Lyichir

[Redimus]

I hope not. It's a garbage set. 
Would much rather see the Mearsk or Super Chief re-released, hell even an updated metroliner.

Doubt we'll ever see that though, trains just don't make enough money.

[Eaglefan344]

3 hours ago, Lyichir said:

Both of the recent Black Friday rereleases (Taj Mahal and Vestas Wind Turbine) have been in ten year anniversary years. So if Lego chooses to do something similar for Black Friday of next year, I think the Emerald Night would be the strongest contender. It's a widely beloved 2009 set that doesn't rely on retired molds (at least, not ones that haven't been replaced by lookalikes). And the alternatives would be a modular building (which they've never done rereleases of), the Winter Village Toy Shop (which has already been rereleased semi-recently), or the Grand Carousel (which has recently been supplanted by a newer, better carousel set).

I would think that a modular re-release would be GG or CC as well

[supertruper1988]

Why not build it in another color for much cheaper? I have seen LBG, Dark Blue, Dark Red, Black, Green, White, Yellow, and Dark Purple. The last one is cool because you can get Dark Purple train windows for a lot cheaper than the Tan and it make for a cool train with some DBG and Dark Purple passenger cars

[CaL]

And here is a nice video about the Em.Night in alternative colouring:  

 

[ProvenceTristram]

10 hours ago, Redimus said:

I hope not. It's a garbage set. 

This.

Look, the simple fact of the matter is: pretty as the Emerald Night may be, it isn't a particularly good representation of a steam locomotive. Just because it's better than the outright swill that Lego typically passes off for steam engines doesn't make it good in general - just in a relative sense. Given the price tag attached even when it was new, I took one look at the thing and started giggling. But I guess people are enamored of bright colors or something. 

You can design a significantly more realistic locomotive at around the same part count (preferably in 8w), and Bricklink it for the same price. That, to me, is a no-brainer.

Edited November 29, 2018 by ProvenceTristram

[Chromeknight]

21 minutes ago, ProvenceTristram said:

This.

Look, the simple fact of the matter is: pretty as the Emerald Night may be, it isn't a particularly good representation of a steam locomotive. Just because it's better than the outright swill that Lego typically passes off for steam engines doesn't make it good in general - just in a relative sense. Given the price tag attached even when it was new, I took one look at the thing and started giggling. But I guess people are enamored of bright colors or something. 

You can design a significantly more realistic locomotive at around the same part count (preferably in 8w), and Bricklink it for the same price. That, to me, is a no-brainer.

I think the key thing that helped sell the EN is the design work had been done. Tested and trialled and working. (Albeit a simple mod to improve running was quick to follow). For a builder starting out on locomotives with powered running gear, it was is an unbeatable tutorial set. 

Sets sell to those who want one purchase to obtain all the parts. Yes, bricklink is there for the advanced builder, but not everybody has the time or inclination to delve into reciprocating motions and quartering. Even amongst keen train builders I'm sure there are many who love detailing modern image deseils but are quite satisfied with a simple, working, Night.

Besides, the suggestion of a bricklinked own design being equivalent in price is only true because of the inflated after-market price of a ten year old set. If it was rereleased at retail price, that would not be the case, a rerelease would be a very attractive parts pack regardless of anyone's opinion of the merits of the actual model.

All this is not to say I personally want a rerelease. I want a brand new stream locomotive, with all the new options opened up by the range of new elements released since 2009. I want something that is as edge of the envelope now as the EN was for its time. After all, locomotives are built to go forwards.

[3797]

13 hours ago, Redimus said:

I hope not. It's a garbage set. 
Would much rather see the Mearsk or Super Chief re-released, hell even an updated metroliner.

Doubt we'll ever see that though, trains just don't make enough money.

That's your opinion. Many people like the set and that's why even fakes sell for quite a lot of money. I wish LEGO would finally re-release the EN to put an end to this and to make the prices come back down. That would be a much more effective blow than fighting numerous long winded legal battles. I heard and read quite a few times that even AFOLs bought multiple fakes just for the tan windows. And no, regular Creator windows don't come close enough.

Also, there's no need to update the Metroliner. It's the perfect LEGO train set. It has everything. It offers much more play value than 60197 (doors, windows, lights, more minifigs, beds, an engine and a much longer platform) and doesn't look too much like a shoe box on wheels even with it's not too over the top front pieces. All they'd have to do is replace the 9V stuff with Powered Up. Done.

Trains not making enough money is quite the fairytale. If that was the case, then why even make 60197 and 60198? They do sell. There are quite a few webshops that have review sections and trains usually have pretty much the same amount of reviews as other sets in that price bracket. Also, Powered Up (or PF before that) isn't that expensive to manufacture. It's not as if they'd have to give the rest of the bricks away for free. Aaand... train sets are some of the most heavily pirated sets. There has to be a reason for that.

I've seens kids beg thair parents for a LEGO train and I've heard teenagers talk about how awesome of a set 10254 is and how they enjoyed building it. 

[Redimus]

6 hours ago, 3797 said:

Also, there's no need to update the Metroliner. It's the perfect LEGO train set. It has everything. It offers much more play value than 60197 (doors, windows, lights, more minifigs, beds, an engine and a much longer platform) and doesn't look too much like a shoe box on wheels even with it's not too over the top front pieces. All they'd have to do is replace the 9V stuff with Powered Up. Done.

Trains not making enough money is quite the fairytale. If that was the case, then why even make 60197 and 60198? They do sell. There are quite a few webshops that have review sections and trains usually have pretty much the same amount of reviews as other sets in that price bracket. Also, Powered Up (or PF before that) isn't that expensive to manufacture. It's not as if they'd have to give the rest of the bricks away for free. Aaand... train sets are some of the most heavily pirated sets. There has to be a reason for that.

I've seens kids beg thair parents for a LEGO train and I've heard teenagers talk about how awesome of a set 10254 is and how they enjoyed building it. 

It does, because it relied on a power system that no longer exists. Even if they do it unpowered, it really should be designed in a way to allow those less used to modding their trains an easy way to power it (this is my biggest complaint about the most recent Hogwarts Express, it's lack of planned power options).

 

There's enough demand for 2 trainsets (one freight, one passenger) and maybe one more freight in a 4 year period. They're too expensive for much more than that.
Lego tried to go balls deep into trains, and it cost them a lot of money for little return. 
They stopped making Creator train sets because they just weren't selling well enough (despite how much the small but vocal Lego train community fawned over them, and with the exception of EN, I surely have fawned over them).

9 hours ago, ProvenceTristram said:

This.

Look, the simple fact of the matter is: pretty as the Emerald Night may be, it isn't a particularly good representation of a steam locomotive. Just because it's better than the outright swill that Lego typically passes off for steam engines doesn't make it good in general - just in a relative sense. Given the price tag attached even when it was new, I took one look at the thing and started giggling. But I guess people are enamored of bright colors or something. 

You can design a significantly more realistic locomotive at around the same part count (preferably in 8w), and Bricklink it for the same price. That, to me, is a no-brainer.

It isn't even that pretty. It drives me round the bend that they'd make it 8 wide, then give it a 6 wide tender and coach. The powering solution makes the already rubbish tender look even uglier too. 

[3797]

Just now, Redimus said:

It does, because it relied on a power system that no longer exists.

As I said: "All they'd have to do is replace the 9V stuff with Powered Up. Done."

Still doesn't mean that any serious redesign would be required. Not at all. Swapping those few bits out is super easy. Especially with the updated 6x28 baseplate with it's larger holes for the Power Functions connectors.

Also, again, fairy tales. If trains didn't sell, then there would be no 60197, 60198, 10254 or 10259. Plus, you simply can't sell what you don't put on store shelves. Do you know why "My Own Train" didn't sell well? Because the designs and colours were terrible (extremely primitive steam engines) compared to the metroliner era. I remember die hard AFOLs (this was back in 2001!) only buying these as parts packs for their mocs. Who would go for a KT205 instead of a 7750 with a red 9V/PF/PU motor? No one really knew about the Santa Fee but it still sold well enough for them to make a second release after the limited one sold out. The BNSF didn't sell because no one knew about it and there was no rolling stock available for it to pull. Same goes for the Creator Expert trains. They weren't available in regular toy shops and as far as I remember weren't advertised in LEGO's own catalogs, either. At a time when many still didn't use the internet very much and "playing" with LEGO wasn't an established hobby for adults just yet. That's probably also why the Hobby Train ended up being a rather obscure set that even many AFOLs may not know about.

There's a German shop owner on YouTube. He'd love to be able to sell train accessories. He says his customers are actually asking for these things. 

The Hogwarts Express 75955 was sold out and on backorder for weeks and when it was finally available again, they felt the need to limit it to only 1 (one!) set per customer. My 2nd order was cancelled because of that. All the more frustrating to anyone who may want an additional two passenger waggons. 

Also, why do people always ignore the fact that the Emerald Night was released at a time when many felt the direct aftermath of the financial crisis of 2007/2008 and/or were afraid to lose their jobs? I was at Uni at the time and working 30 hours/week at Burger King. For a whopping 5.60€/hour after the deduction of health care fees and stuff like that. New hires would have gotten even less than that, but we didn't hire anyway. We let people go. Boy, did our revenue go down in 2008/2009! I wanted an Emerald Night badly (well, three, actually) but figured it was smarter to put the money in my savings account, instead.

Here's a good example for a set that probably didn't sell well:

Yeah, but what exactly did they expect? That vehicle looks so basic and boring as if it belongs to a Juniors set.

[CSW652]

I would buy a Powered Up re-release of both the Emerald Night and the Metroliner.

Would really love a Creator Expert Metroliner though.  

 

Edited November 30, 2018 by CSW652

[WesternOutlaw]

Interesting question.  LEGO really hasn't offered any re-releases in a long time.  With LEGO Ideas and all the possibilities for new sets, I think we're more likely to see a new train than one from the past.  May get a little picture of one in a Creator Modular but I don't think we'll see a re-release. 

[Roadmonkeytj]

I can speak from personal experience....  The EN while pretty is the worst running train I've ever come across.  I bought it late last year from a friend.  It ran so horrible it became a shelf display.  Then I decided I was going to make it run.   I've reworked the chassis reworked the trucks reworked the boiler/motor configuration.  Redesigned the tender.  Then reworked all of it again when I finally ran it at a show.   The set it's just not a good stock set but a great looking set...  I would rather they develop a great new steam engine on thepu platform than re-release the EN

[ProvenceTristram]

10 minutes ago, Roadmonkeytj said:

I can speak from personal experience....  The EN while pretty is the worst running train I've ever come across.  I bought it late last year from a friend.  It ran so horrible it became a shelf display.  Then I decided I was going to make it run.   I've reworked the chassis reworked the trucks reworked the boiler/motor configuration.  Redesigned the tender.  Then reworked all of it again when I finally ran it at a show.   The set it's just not a good stock set but a great looking set...  I would rather they develop a great new steam engine on thepu platform than re-release the EN

While I have zero desire to see the excellent independent parts artisans go out of business, Lego needs to design some real driving rods before any future 'premium' steam offering like the Emerald Night. The continued reliance on bulky, ill-shaped Technic rods is an embarassment. It ruins pretty much every steam loco they release.

[Roadmonkeytj]

31 minutes ago, ProvenceTristram said:

While I have zero desire to see the excellent independent parts artisans go out of business, Lego needs to design some real driving rods before any future 'premium' steam offering like the Emerald Night. The continued reliance on bulky, ill-shaped Technic rods is an embarassment. It ruins pretty much every steam loco they release.

Personally I think after 12v and 9v they tried to get away from the "special use parts" and more toward parts that can build any type of model/design

[ProvenceTristram]

2 hours ago, Roadmonkeytj said:

Personally I think after 12v and 9v they tried to get away from the "special use parts" and more toward parts that can build any type of model/design

I feel like a driving rod isn't something you can really fake - it's a specialized part that just needs to be what it is. The thing is, though, were they to design, say, a three or two-couple driving rod mold, that could be reused on all Lego-designed steam locomotives going forward for the next 20 years or more; it would definitely have multi-set use. I think the fact that they haven't done a proper rod since the early 80s is really pretty chintzy - especially when they go ultra cheap with cop-outs like this: 

Even as, like, a 5 year old, I would have immediately recognized that something enormous and necessary was absent from that picture. 

[Redimus]

4 hours ago, ProvenceTristram said:

While I have zero desire to see the excellent independent parts artisans go out of business, Lego needs to design some real driving rods before any future 'premium' steam offering like the Emerald Night. The continued reliance on bulky, ill-shaped Technic rods is an embarrassment. It ruins pretty much every steam loco they release.

I think the simple solution is to bring out a better choice of the half thickness technic bars. Sure the holes are not great, but they have millions of other uses as well as making out job a lot easier. And honestly, the black technic bars they did use on EN look OK to me.

My biggest criticism of Megablocs is that too many of their sets include a bit or two that has 100% no use outside of the set it was designed for, I would rather Lego avoided going down that path.

8 hours ago, 3797 said:

A lot.

I'm not arguing trains make some money. But they clearly don't have as good a ratio of money in to money out as the rest of the city line, or the many franchise lines. Otherwise Lego would make more of them. Lego wants as much money for as little money spent, and they're not stupid, if trains was a gold mine, they'd be pumping a lot more out. And please don't confuse localised demand and large demand amongst your personal group of friends as an indication of mass appeal. 1) because trains are just not that popular anymore and 2) because just because people want them (and having displayed mine at a Lego show recently, it's certainly true that some do), they are not willing to spend the relatively high start up cost trainsets have. The Creator sets were not very successful because they were squarely aimed at adults (who don't tend to lie on the floor pushing a train and going 'choo choo' had no track, no form of power, not enough stock to form a decent train and were relatively expensive. I can't speak for sets before then, because I wasn't paying attention through that period, but it was a period where a lot of Lego's decisions were less than great, which probably played a part too.

[CSW652]

I think the trains would be more popular if you could actually find them in the stores.  Other than Toys R Us, I have never seen them in a store like Walmart, Target, etc....

[dr_spock]

It could be those retailers choose for whatever reason not to carry LEGO trains.  Perhaps they don't move off the shelves as quickly as other items.  That's money sitting in inventory that can be used for other business purposes in the mean time. It is probably important if your margins are pretty thin in the cut throat race to the bottom. 

I had to make my own half-wide Technic 13L beams.  What's that saying, if you want something done right, you have to do it yourself?  

 

 

[Roadmonkeytj]

2 hours ago, dr_spock said:

It could be those retailers choose for whatever reason not to carry LEGO trains.  Perhaps they don't move off the shelves as quickly as other items.  That's money sitting in inventory that can be used for other business purposes in the mean time. It is probably important if your margins are pretty thin in the cut throat race to the bottom. 

I had to make my own half-wide Technic 13L beams.  What's that saying, if you want something done right, you have to do it yourself?  

 

 

I think this is the main thing here...  The "toy train craze" where everyone had to have a train has passed kids these days aren't into trains like we were.   Maybe because today's trains became boring they all look the same no one really "has a connection" to trains any more unless it's subways, metrolinks, or trams (fill in the European equivalent).  Most people that ride these don't enjoy them lol.   It makes sense that tlg still offers them but not as a main stream.  Superhero cartoons have replace comic books,  Harry Potter has replaced the castles an knights,  who didn't love playing with dinosaurs? I think the thing we AFOL's forget is they are a marketing company selling toy blocks.   Yes we have a small niche in their market but the vast majority is still kids who will play with Lego's and forget about them as they grow. 

[Toastie]

4 hours ago, dr_spock said:

I had to make my own half-wide Technic 13L beams.  What's that saying, if you want something done right, you have to do it yourself?   

I completely agree on this - and I must say, it has become increasingly comfortable for me to do so. Folks do 3D print pieces that don't exist - and well, there is good acceptance and even the purist don't comply - as no LEGO piece was harmed. Then there are the professional injection molders - and well, folks go nuts about the quality.

Now, getting the hands on an original LEGO piece is what? I am doing it the moment TLC is not doing it. So - making a half wide Technic beam in 13L is: Perfect.

I had to drill small holes into the all-plastic double cross over total fail thing:, remove the bottom covers, throw out the levers, add nylon wire encased in original(!) LEGO flex tubing and - now it works. Is the anything wrong in turning a fail original part into a custom working part? Guess not.

Same here. When you want to get things work - and TLG is not giving you any answers: DO IT. Yourself.

Best
Thorsten