Waterbrick Down

Heroica RPG 2.0

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2 hours ago, Waterbrick Down said:

That's what I'm saying, they don't need to be integral and that's not a bad thing. They don't need to be more important than everything else. The galaxy's destruction is a part of the setup that I'm stewing, I'd agree by itself it might feel tacked on, but it's supposed to be simply an aspect of the larger events of the time.

But I don't like the idea of them coming from a destroyed galaxy, I don't even like the idea of them being from a destroyed planet. Why is everyone here obsessed with making things ludicrously massive? Centuries long wars, destroyed galaxies, it's just gratuitous. And I just hate planet-destroying in general. Especially in this context where it just comes across as a cheap attempt to look original without actually going to the effort of actually being original. As far as I can tell you just want to slap this miserable backstory onto all the generic fantasy races while leaving everything else about them unchanged. People are quite capable of exploring 'other aspects' of these species without this childishly grim backstory and I don't see how them not being from Explodia or wherever restricts that. If you want to encourage people to explore 'other aspects' of them them why not create societies for them that encourage such behavior?

2 hours ago, Waterbrick Down said:

Not sure where you're getting this... I wasn't trying to come off as completely erase all pre-conceptions of the fantasy races, more allowing freedom for people to explore other aspects.

I think you've misunderstood me. I was trying to indicate that any race that fills the role of elves in a setting are essentially 'elves' even if they don't have much aesthetically in common with them.

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14 hours ago, Lord Duvors said:

But I don't like the idea of them coming from a destroyed galaxy, I don't even like the idea of them being from a destroyed planet.

Again it's not a requirement that all elves/dwarves/etc. characters directly come from that galaxy, its more that the homeworld where the races originated is no longer around.

14 hours ago, Lord Duvors said:

Why is everyone here obsessed with making things ludicrously massive? Centuries long wars, destroyed galaxies, it's just gratuitous. And I just hate planet-destroying in general. Especially in this context where it just comes across as a cheap attempt to look original without actually going to the effort of actually being original.

I can't say your war idea is necessarily original either. And this idea is only that, it's not an established canon yet, it's putting feelers out there to establish what aspects need polish, what doesn't work, and what's enjoyable. I've got to be honest, if I don't enjoy something it's hard to feel motivated to put massive amounts of work in to take build sets, edit photos, draft rules, and put everything in a presentable package.

14 hours ago, Lord Duvors said:

As far as I can tell you just want to slap this miserable backstory onto all the generic fantasy races while leaving everything else about them unchanged. People are quite capable of exploring 'other aspects' of these species without this childishly grim backstory and I don't see how them not being from Explodia or wherever restricts that. If you want to encourage people to explore 'other aspects' of them them why not create societies for them that encourage such behavior?

It feels like you're jumping way ahead and just taking this at face-value as all there is to a story or to species development. As I said, I'm kicking around the idea, no hard details yet.

14 hours ago, Lord Duvors said:

I think you've misunderstood me. I was trying to indicate that any race that fills the role of elves in a setting are essentially 'elves' even if they don't have much aesthetically in common with them.

And...? So you're saying because we may have two somewhat aloof, long-lifespan races that tend to have highly developed cultures and scholarship, that we really only need one of them? Regardless of their histories, philosophy, biology, connections to other species, etc.? Categorizing species for roles, is a gamest and narrative tool, not a RP tool. It's merely used to assist in understanding the generalities of the world and preserving connectivity and continuity in an experience that is being built by multiple individuals. 

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15 hours ago, Lord Duvors said:

But I don't like the idea of them coming from a destroyed galaxy, I don't even like the idea of them being from a destroyed planet. Why is everyone here obsessed with making things ludicrously massive? Centuries long wars, destroyed galaxies, it's just gratuitous. And I just hate planet-destroying in general. Especially in this context where it just comes across as a cheap attempt to look original without actually going to the effort of actually being original. As far as I can tell you just want to slap this miserable backstory onto all the generic fantasy races while leaving everything else about them unchanged. People are quite capable of exploring 'other aspects' of these species without this childishly grim backstory and I don't see how them not being from Explodia or wherever restricts that. If you want to encourage people to explore 'other aspects' of them them why not create societies for them that encourage such behavior?

Relax. I don't see what's so inherently miserable about all that. The destruction of Alderaan sucked, but that tragedy didn't drive the rest of the original trilogy into existential agony. :laugh: 

Personally, I'm a fan of having generic fantasy races in the background. It reminds me of the sci-fi RPG I'm most familiar with, (that WBD also mentioned), Starfinder- those races absolutely exist, they're just not really the driving elements of things. As someone who spent the better part of Heroica writing orc lore, I think it's a lot more interesting to have new aliens take the forefront. 

Trying to list every race is, as seems to be generally agreed on, an enormous and pointless expenditure of time. Part of the fun of Heroica was everyone compiling their own lore (even if I do think that sort of thing needs more oversight). I'm down with establishing either some basic categories that species fall under, or some standardized mix-and-match traits (pick three, or whatever). I think Legacy would either make a good species category or a good trait to implement, personally. 

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8 hours ago, Waterbrick Down said:

I can't say your war idea is necessarily original either. And this idea is only that, it's not an established canon yet, it's putting feelers out there to establish what aspects need polish, what doesn't work, and what's enjoyable. I've got to be honest, if I don't enjoy something it's hard to feel motivated to put massive amounts of work in to take build sets, edit photos, draft rules, and put everything in a presentable package.

I suppose the point isn't to be original, it's just that planetary destruction is such a massive pet peeve of mine that the concept makes me legitimately angry. In general I hate it when a setting trivializes or disregards scale. When you've reached the point where galaxies are destroyed and wars last hundreds of years I lose the capacity to take what I'm seeing seriously. My suspension of belief is destroyed, all sense of verisimilitude is lost, and everything seems distinctly unreal and ridiculous. And yes, I understand it's not easy to feel motivated to do something you don't enjoy, but the same goes for me too. And if this project goes too far in a direction I don't find appealing then I won't have the will to offer up ideas or curate that rules revision I took ages typing up. And probably the same goes for everyone else who wants to contribute.

8 hours ago, Waterbrick Down said:

It feels like you're jumping way ahead and just taking this at face-value as all there is to a story or to species development. As I said, I'm kicking around the idea, no hard details yet.

Look, part of the reason I dislike this whole idea is the implication that people are incapable of doing something original with an established fantasy trope unless you force them to. People can do interesting and unique things with dwarfs and elves and such without being prodded from on high. And I personally feel that having homelands for these people that the players can visit isn't going to automatically mean that these races automatically overshadow all the others or be exact copies of existing fantasy settings. I mean, spaceships! There's gotta be some angle there you can exploit.

8 hours ago, Waterbrick Down said:

And...? So you're saying because we may have two somewhat aloof, long-lifespan races that tend to have highly developed cultures and scholarship, that we really only need one of them? Regardless of their histories, philosophy, biology, connections to other species, etc.? Categorizing species for roles, is a gamest and narrative tool, not a RP tool. It's merely used to assist in understanding the generalities of the world and preserving connectivity and continuity in an experience that is being built by multiple individuals. 

To be honest I'm not sure why I was complaining about this anymore, it's not important and I don't really care now anyways.

 

7 hours ago, CMP said:

Relax. I don't see what's so inherently miserable about all that. The destruction of Alderaan sucked, but that tragedy didn't drive the rest of the original trilogy into existential agony. :laugh: 

That's not really the point. I find stories treating something that big as being casually disposable immensely infuriating and to see an entire planet get killed off in the backstory just to justify why a couple of species aren't especially prominent makes me livid. Something like that should be experienced by players in the course of the game where it can have a real impact rather than being relegated to an 'oh yeah by the way'.

7 hours ago, CMP said:

Personally, I'm a fan of having generic fantasy races in the background. It reminds me of the sci-fi RPG I'm most familiar with, (that WBD also mentioned), Starfinder- those races absolutely exist, they're just not really the driving elements of things. As someone who spent the better part of Heroica writing orc lore, I think it's a lot more interesting to have new aliens take the forefront. 

All other concerns aside there's a bit of a logistical issue with this; Lego makes a lot of humans. Humans are in fact the most well-represented demographic among minifigs. So people are going to tend to have a lot of them. Its kind of hard to square the idea that humans and human-looking species aren't especially prominent with the fact that they're likely to make up the majority of crowd scenes and player characters. :sceptic:

8 hours ago, CMP said:

Trying to list every race is, as seems to be generally agreed on, an enormous and pointless expenditure of time. Part of the fun of Heroica was everyone compiling their own lore (even if I do think that sort of thing needs more oversight). I'm down with establishing either some basic categories that species fall under, or some standardized mix-and-match traits (pick three, or whatever). I think Legacy would either make a good species category or a good trait to implement, personally. 

I think 'legacy' is a bit too meta to use, but this is rather in line with what I was thinking.

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I’ve been busy lately and haven’t been able to contribute as much as I want, so I’ll add a concept I’ve had for awhile.

The gods of this setting are tangible beings. They are immensely powerful and have the power to bestow blessings and channel their divinity to their priests. This means that, in theory, these gods can be met in-game, their presence able to affect adventures. Aurorielle, one of the oldest gods, is known as the Mother. It is said she fled across space, away from war and found a desolate place in the universe. There, needing a place to raise her unborn child, she created the planets. Her child, born into the world, became the first sun.

Or, something like that. 🙂 I love the visual Kid Icarus: Uprising gave, of the gods just looming over horizons, but I also picture more intimate, direct confrontations with them.

 

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@Lord Duvors: While I was working on writing responses to your feedback, I realised that my ideas were far more interconnected than I had previously thought. As such, I will jot down what I have been thinking about, and compile everything into a list of bullet-comments and short writeups, so that we can all be on the same page. BTW, Who are the Krassar? I like what I have heard thus far (The name, Roman-styled lizard aliens (which sounds like something from Doctor Who! 👍)), so I am interested in hearing what else you have in-mind for them. 

 
To the matter of species creation/development, what about taking a hybrid approach by combining old and new elements? This would keep the story from focusing entirely on either new or classic races (or mixing the two in such a way that results in excessive overlap between cultures), better accommodate part-availability, and allow for more diverse/interesting RP opportunities. 
For example: The O'Ko'ruk (Alternatively "Oruk" (by people who struggle with the native pronunciation) and "Orcs" (as a pejorative)). Though typically red (Nexo Knights lava monster pieces), green O'Ko'ruk are not uncommon. O'Ko'ruk designs are vaguely Asian, particularly in clothing and weapons (Ninjago pieces). The O'Ko'ruk are strong and smart (many are excellent strategists), and their culture is one of clan-based nomadism. Rarely remaining in the same place for long, the O'Ko'ruk rely on trade for goods that they cannot produce themselves. The O'Ko'ruk possess a strong sense of clan sovereignty, and loyalty to one's clan is of paramount importance in their culture. As a result of this, and of their nomadic lifestyles, the O'Ko'ruk have become known as skilled warriors (though they are not inherently warlike). That said, rival clans will often fight over resources and territory, but most clans just keep out of each other's way. Many O'Ko'ruk find themselves working as mercenaries or protectors, as their strength and skill in combat are highly-valued (particularly in the more lawless regions of the Euripides Arm). 
Something like this (which I only just thought of) blends classic Orc tropes with a Mongol-Samurai-inspired culture, as well as facilitating the building of characters, as it relies primarily on recently-produced parts. 
 
As for the issue of scale, while I think that the destruction of a galaxy is a bit too large for the story that we seem to be working on (since whatever could wipe out an entire galaxy is far more powerful and threatening than any of the factions/characters of the Euripides Arm), I have no problems with a refugee species from a destroyed planet (I actually think that such a race could be very interesting and compelling). Also, as a side-note, there are other ways of rendering a planet uninhabitable aside from just blowing it up - Pollution, climate-change, intense seismic/volcanic activity, disease, fallout from a war, overpopulation, depletion of resources, etc (or some combination thereof). 
 
 
49 minutes ago, Kintobor said:

I’ll add a concept I’ve had for awhile.

The gods of this setting are tangible beings. They are immensely powerful and have the power to bestow blessings and channel their divinity to their priests. This means that, in theory, these gods can be met in-game, their presence able to affect adventures. Aurorielle, one of the oldest gods, is known as the Mother. It is said she fled across space, away from war and found a desolate place in the universe. There, needing a place to raise her unborn child, she created the planets. Her child, born into the world, became the first sun.

Or, something like that.

I like this - I actually had a similar idea (Re: tangibility of deities), but that gods/demons/other supernatural beings would be extradimensional creatures. Additionally, this works well with my idea that magic stems from the manipulation of a substance called "Protomatter" (Neither Matter nor Antimatter, Protomatter was the initial material state of the universe, prior to the M/AM split (and subsequent annihilation of Antimatter). Some Protomatter remained, however, and controlling it grants almost limitless possible abilities). Deities could be beings of pure Protomatter (hence their ability to create/destroy/alter conditions/etc), and the use of magic would be the low-level equivalent of these powers. 
Other ideas on this subject: 1.) Universes that consist mainly of Protomatter theoretically exist, and tapping into one would be an immense source of energy. 2.) Jump Gates would be powered by an accumulation of ambient Protomatter. 
 

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1 hour ago, Kintobor said:

The gods of this setting are tangible beings. They are immensely powerful and have the power to bestow blessings and channel their divinity to their priests. This means that, in theory, these gods can be met in-game, their presence able to affect adventures. Aurorielle, one of the oldest gods, is known as the Mother. It is said she fled across space, away from war and found a desolate place in the universe. There, needing a place to raise her unborn child, she created the planets. Her child, born into the world, became the first sun.

Jumping in here, and I like the ideas of gods as tangible beings, but I'm slightly hesitant to that due to it could be very easy to mess them up. Could an idea by to have us interact with their intercessors/representatives? I'm not saying each god needs a pope-like figure, but some kind of representative who is hard to seek out or appears rarely. That way we can leave the interpretation of "is that what the god really wants?" or "is this actually them manifested but unsure" to players and QMs.

Also, hi everyone! Sorry I haven't posted in here. Been busy with work, BoBS, etc. Hopefully around Thanksgiving I can get a break to dive into here.

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20 hours ago, Lord Duvors said:

That's not really the point. I find stories treating something that big as being casually disposable immensely infuriating and to see an entire planet get killed off in the backstory just to justify why a couple of species aren't especially prominent makes me livid. Something like that should be experienced by players in the course of the game where it can have a real impact rather than being relegated to an 'oh yeah by the way'.

All other concerns aside there's a bit of a logistical issue with this; Lego makes a lot of humans. Humans are in fact the most well-represented demographic among minifigs. So people are going to tend to have a lot of them. Its kind of hard to square the idea that humans and human-looking species aren't especially prominent with the fact that they're likely to make up the majority of crowd scenes and player characters. :sceptic:

If it's ancient history, then what's it matter? I do think that's the sort of world-shaking thing that would be best experienced by players, and I like that idea, but a more nebulous and "lost" past helps ease the transition of species extant in Heroica to this. We don't have to figure out every detail of what happened, it's forgotten to time.

Well, humans are the exception. I'm talking more about generic fantasy races like elves and orcs. Humans are never not prominent, it's just kind of the nature of things.

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On 10/23/2020 at 5:43 PM, CMP said:

Trying to list every race is, as seems to be generally agreed on, an enormous and pointless expenditure of time. Part of the fun of Heroica was everyone compiling their own lore (even if I do think that sort of thing needs more oversight). I'm down with establishing either some basic categories that species fall under, or some standardized mix-and-match traits (pick three, or whatever). I think Legacy would either make a good species category or a good trait to implement, personally. 

Agreed, and at this point I'm thinking of doing away with the trait system to avoid the issue of restraining species. It's probably better narratively, if we want to add it in soon after the beginning we can always revisit.

20 hours ago, Lord Duvors said:

I suppose the point isn't to be original, it's just that planetary destruction is such a massive pet peeve of mine that the concept makes me legitimately angry. In general I hate it when a setting trivializes or disregards scale. When you've reached the point where galaxies are destroyed and wars last hundreds of years I lose the capacity to take what I'm seeing seriously. My suspension of belief is destroyed, all sense of verisimilitude is lost, and everything seems distinctly unreal and ridiculous. And yes, I understand it's not easy to feel motivated to do something you don't enjoy, but the same goes for me too. And if this project goes too far in a direction I don't find appealing then I won't have the will to offer up ideas or curate that rules revision I took ages typing up. And probably the same goes for everyone else who wants to contribute.

Completely understand about the connection between enthusiasm and involvement. I guess my pet peeve, is ideas are easier than actual work. Looking at Heroica 1.0, there was a lot of sacrifice by a few individuals to keep things floating and I understand that that comes with the territory, just trying to avoid burnout. As for your points on planetary destruction, this is a science fantasy game, the scale is naturally going to be bigger than Heroica 1.0 and the particular plot point of one planet or galaxy's destruction is bound to occur and the idea is by keeping it vague, it allows for some mystery to be expanded upon. Plus the destruction doesn't have to be explosion, as pointed out below:

2 hours ago, Classic_Spaceman said:

As for the issue of scale, while I think that the destruction of a galaxy is a bit too large for the story that we seem to be working on (since whatever could wipe out an entire galaxy is far more powerful and threatening than any of the factions/characters of the Euripides Arm), I have no problems with a refugee species from a destroyed planet (I actually think that such a race could be very interesting and compelling). Also, as a side-note, there are other ways of rendering a planet uninhabitable aside from just blowing it up - Pollution, climate-change, intense seismic/volcanic activity, disease, fallout from a war, overpopulation, depletion of resources, etc (or some combination thereof). 

There are other ways to achieve the same effect. My main line of thinking was:
- We have a war being fought by multiple factions
- Destruction of a galaxy or planet involved in the war leads to a tentative cease-fire/peace as no one is quite sure what caused it
- Fallout from the war/destruction have multiple impacts upon the remaining factions as inhabitants from the galaxy or planet had allies among all the factions

Also, it should be pointed out, that by the very nature of this being a community run game, there are going to be quests/characters/plot-lines that some folks run that break the verisimilitude for someone. As with Heroica 1.0 we just choose how much we want to engage with that aspect of the world. Personally, while I love Endgame as a QM and creator, I could never get into the Heroica 1.0 story of the Proggs and apart from one quest, avoided from interacting with that huge aspect of the game that I know other people immensely enjoyed.:shrug_oh_well:

20 hours ago, Lord Duvors said:

Look, part of the reason I dislike this whole idea is the implication that people are incapable of doing something original with an established fantasy trope unless you force them to. People can do interesting and unique things with dwarfs and elves and such without being prodded from on high. And I personally feel that having homelands for these people that the players can visit isn't going to automatically mean that these races automatically overshadow all the others or be exact copies of existing fantasy settings. I mean, spaceships! There's gotta be some angle there you can exploit.

Hence why it's not completely getting rid of the races or establishing that as the only place they exist. There is still room for folks to explore as well as have something new to play off of if they so choose.

20 hours ago, Lord Duvors said:

That's not really the point. I find stories treating something that big as being casually disposable immensely infuriating and to see an entire planet get killed off in the backstory just to justify why a couple of species aren't especially prominent makes me livid. Something like that should be experienced by players in the course of the game where it can have a real impact rather than being relegated to an 'oh yeah by the way'.

Completely disagree. Almost all settings have some sort of major events both grand and destructive in their history that impact the way their world is today. One of Heroica 1.0's main underlying plots was the destruction of Mercution and the implications its fall-out had. It feels to me that this is more an issue because it's the fantasy races. How would you feel if it wasn't elves/dwarves/orcs and was simply a different alien species?

21 hours ago, Lord Duvors said:

All other concerns aside there's a bit of a logistical issue with this; Lego makes a lot of humans. Humans are in fact the most well-represented demographic among minifigs. So people are going to tend to have a lot of them. Its kind of hard to square the idea that humans and human-looking species aren't especially prominent with the fact that they're likely to make up the majority of crowd scenes and player characters. :sceptic:

CMP, answered this one for me:

58 minutes ago, CMP said:

Well, humans are the exception. I'm talking more about generic fantasy races like elves and orcs. Humans are never not prominent, it's just kind of the nature of things.

The intention would be for Humans to be pretty standard around the galaxy at this point.

3 hours ago, Kintobor said:

The gods of this setting are tangible beings. They are immensely powerful and have the power to bestow blessings and channel their divinity to their priests. This means that, in theory, these gods can be met in-game, their presence able to affect adventures. Aurorielle, one of the oldest gods, is known as the Mother. It is said she fled across space, away from war and found a desolate place in the universe. There, needing a place to raise her unborn child, she created the planets. Her child, born into the world, became the first sun.

I like it, but tricky to balance narratively. Whenever you have tangible beings of immense power it always raises the question of why don't they interfere more often in everyday life, unless of course you make them more aloof and metaphysical.

2 hours ago, Classic_Spaceman said:

To the matter of species creation/development, what about taking a hybrid approach by combining old and new elements? This would keep the story from focusing entirely on either new or classic races (or mixing the two in such a way that results in excessive overlap between cultures), better accommodate part-availability, and allow for more diverse/interesting RP opportunities. 

For example: The O'Ko'ruk (Alternatively "Oruk" (by people who struggle with the native pronunciation) and "Orcs" (as a pejorative)). Though typically red (Nexo Knights lava monster pieces), green O'Ko'ruk are not uncommon. O'Ko'ruk designs are vaguely Asian, particularly in clothing and weapons (Ninjago pieces). The O'Ko'ruk are strong and smart (many are excellent strategists), and their culture is one of clan-based nomadism. Rarely remaining in the same place for long, the O'Ko'ruk rely on trade for goods that they cannot produce themselves. The O'Ko'ruk possess a strong sense of clan sovereignty, and loyalty to one's clan is of paramount importance in their culture. As a result of this, and of their nomadic lifestyles, the O'Ko'ruk have become known as skilled warriors (though they are not inherently warlike). That said, rival clans will often fight over resources and territory, but most clans just keep out of each other's way. Many O'Ko'ruk find themselves working as mercenaries or protectors, as their strength and skill in combat are highly-valued (particularly in the more lawless regions of the Euripides Arm). 
Something like this (which I only just thought of) blends classic Orc tropes with a Mongol-Samurai-inspired culture, as well as facilitating the building of characters, as it relies primarily on recently-produced parts. 

I appreciate the attempt at synthesis. It's keeping orcs as orcs but essentially ignoring that they ever came from a fantasy setting, which I suppose is a good point to cover. In science fantasy we probably unconsciously think of two routes via which culture become spacefaring:
1. A species progresses through natural technological development similar to our real world just more advanced.
2. A species has access to space travel almost from the onset of their creation.

Answering this question, I believe can greatly impact how we perceive a culture or a setting.

2 hours ago, Classic_Spaceman said:

I like this - I actually had a similar idea (Re: tangibility of deities), but that gods/demons/other supernatural beings would be extradimensional creatures. Additionally, this works well with my idea that magic stems from the manipulation of a substance called "Protomatter" (Neither Matter nor Antimatter, Protomatter was the initial material state of the universe, prior to the M/AM split (and subsequent annihilation of Antimatter). Some Protomatter remained, however, and controlling it grants almost limitless possible abilities). Deities could be beings of pure Protomatter (hence their ability to create/destroy/alter conditions/etc), and the use of magic would be the low-level equivalent of these powers. 

Other ideas on this subject: 1.) Universes that consist mainly of Protomatter theoretically exist, and tapping into one would be an immense source of energy. 2.) Jump Gates would be powered by an accumulation of ambient Protomatter. 

This is where we start to get into the difference between science fiction and science fantasy. I think it's an interesting idea, but let's be careful about how much we set in stone. I like the idea of having magic be a use of another force and agree that the Jump Gates are powered by them, most star-travel might actually be the usage of magic unless technology has developed in a certain culture to replace it.

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3 hours ago, Waterbrick Down said:

This is where we start to get into the difference between science fiction and science fantasy. I think it's an interesting idea, but let's be careful about how much we set in stone. I like the idea of having magic be a use of another force and agree that the Jump Gates are powered by them, most star-travel might actually be the usage of magic unless technology has developed in a certain culture to replace it.

Maybe mana itself is a little more tangible this time around. Our magic space resource that keeps everything working properly. Every science fantasy universe needs its Tiberium. :grin:

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I imagine there being a difference between divine and arcane magic. Arcane magic is likely drawn from the elements of the cosmos.

As for why the gods don’t intervene often, it’s because they themselves still fear whatever Aurorielle fled from: hunters at the edges of the galaxy. They cannot consistently interfere, since they risk revealing themselves to greatly.

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What I’d like to see for our galaxy is an inner and outer rim, sort of like Star Wars. The inner rim are worlds set in stone, a little bit. They have named major spaceports, ecosystems, and inhabitants, as well as culture laid out. These planets are designed to be open enough that game masters have enough liberty to explore these planets and the stories on them easily enough, while maintaining a consistency to them. If you’re familiar with Age of Sigmar, think of Inner Rim planets like that games Realms: defined enough so you get an idea of what the planet is like, but vague enough for there to be room to explore.

The Outer Rim is a space for game masters to go wild and design whatever they like. Over time I imagine the Inner Rim expanding to include planets from the Outer Rim. We can in game explain this as a wiping of records and space maps in a recent conflict by some hostile force, and now the planetary routes need to be charted again. :classic:

Nurglings got into the wiring, I don’t know. :laugh:

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1 hour ago, Kintobor said:

What I’d like to see for our galaxy is an inner and outer rim, sort of like Star Wars. The inner rim are worlds set in stone, a little bit. They have named major spaceports, ecosystems, and inhabitants, as well as culture laid out. These planets are designed to be open enough that game masters have enough liberty to explore these planets and the stories on them easily enough, while maintaining a consistency to them. If you’re familiar with Age of Sigmar, think of Inner Rim planets like that games Realms: defined enough so you get an idea of what the planet is like, but vague enough for there to be room to explore.

The Outer Rim is a space for game masters to go wild and design whatever they like. Over time I imagine the Inner Rim expanding to include planets from the Outer Rim. We can in game explain this as a wiping of records and space maps in a recent conflict by some hostile force, and now the planetary routes need to be charted again. :classic:

Nurglings got into the wiring, I don’t know. :laugh:

I like it. :thumbup:

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15 hours ago, Waterbrick Down said:

Agreed, and at this point I'm thinking of doing away with the trait system to avoid the issue of restraining species. It's probably better narratively, if we want to add it in soon after the beginning we can always revisit.

At the same time, I think there's a lot to be said of restrictions bringing out a lot of creativity. At least for me, it's often more rewarding to come up with something new within a set of confines than to have an open field to work with.

15 hours ago, Waterbrick Down said:

This is where we start to get into the difference between science fiction and science fantasy. I think it's an interesting idea, but let's be careful about how much we set in stone. I like the idea of having magic be a use of another force and agree that the Jump Gates are powered by them, most star-travel might actually be the usage of magic unless technology has developed in a certain culture to replace it.

In my own world that I've been building, each species has kind of its own take on spaceflight. I don't think it should be that complicated for 2.0, but I do like the idea of some culture having magic spaceflight and others maybe having more scientific spaceflight. As a whole, though, Jump Gates are a good way to keep things really simple. Otherwise, you start having to ask the mechanics of FTL travel and how small the world really is. 

4 hours ago, Kintobor said:

What I’d like to see for our galaxy is an inner and outer rim, sort of like Star Wars. The inner rim are worlds set in stone, a little bit. They have named major spaceports, ecosystems, and inhabitants, as well as culture laid out. These planets are designed to be open enough that game masters have enough liberty to explore these planets and the stories on them easily enough, while maintaining a consistency to them. If you’re familiar with Age of Sigmar, think of Inner Rim planets like that games Realms: defined enough so you get an idea of what the planet is like, but vague enough for there to be room to explore.

The Outer Rim is a space for game masters to go wild and design whatever they like. Over time I imagine the Inner Rim expanding to include planets from the Outer Rim. We can in game explain this as a wiping of records and space maps in a recent conflict by some hostile force, and now the planetary routes need to be charted again. :classic:

Nurglings got into the wiring, I don’t know. :laugh:

Yes to this. I always love having room for outer space to be this unknown, cosmic thing. 

Jumping onto the Jump Gates idea, another possibility is simply that there are limited Jump Gates outside of the inner territories, and thus the outer worlds are mostly unexplored.

Edited by The Legonater

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16 hours ago, Kintobor said:

I’ve been busy lately and haven’t been able to contribute as much as I want, so I’ll add a concept I’ve had for awhile.

The gods of this setting are tangible beings. They are immensely powerful and have the power to bestow blessings and channel their divinity to their priests. This means that, in theory, these gods can be met in-game, their presence able to affect adventures. Aurorielle, one of the oldest gods, is known as the Mother. It is said she fled across space, away from war and found a desolate place in the universe. There, needing a place to raise her unborn child, she created the planets. Her child, born into the world, became the first sun.

Or, something like that. 🙂 I love the visual Kid Icarus: Uprising gave, of the gods just looming over horizons, but I also picture more intimate, direct confrontations with them.

 

15 hours ago, KotZ said:

Jumping in here, and I like the ideas of gods as tangible beings, but I'm slightly hesitant to that due to it could be very easy to mess them up. Could an idea by to have us interact with their intercessors/representatives? I'm not saying each god needs a pope-like figure, but some kind of representative who is hard to seek out or appears rarely. That way we can leave the interpretation of "is that what the god really wants?" or "is this actually them manifested but unsure" to players and QMs.

One idea I had was that there are several 'tiers' of divinity, not in the sense of a hierarchy but rather that there are several spheres of reality with their own associated gods. The gods of the material plane would mostly be concerned with material things, the weather, fire, plants etcetera, with domains ranging from an entire planet to 'that pile of rocks over there' and power to match. These are the gods that players interact with regularly, the animist nature spirits and fairies and sprits of the ancestors and pantheons living on mountaintops. Gods in 'higher' or 'lower' spheres are concerned with more abstract concepts, good, evil, all that jazz. These are the ones that interact with the world via intercessors and agents, as for whatever reason they themselves cannot enter 'our' sphere (at least, not without someone opening a door for them). One element of this is that the souls of mortal beings are in fact divine in-and-of themselves, which is what allows them to control magic. Arcane magic is distinguished from divine magic largely via the harnessing of internal power as opposed to the channeling of higher power. I'm not really sure about having a defined origin myth or connecting all the gods, I'd rather let players create their own religions and deities to populate the universe.

 

16 hours ago, Classic_Spaceman said:

 While I was working on writing responses to your feedback, I realised that my ideas were far more interconnected than I had previously thought. As such, I will jot down what I have been thinking about, and compile everything into a list of bullet-comments and short writeups, so that we can all be on the same page. BTW, Who are the Krassar? I like what I have heard thus far (The name, Roman-styled lizard aliens (which sounds like something from Doctor Who! 👍)), so I am interested in hearing what else you have in-mind for them. 

Well, the Krassar aren't Roman, or even Roman-like. I only mentioned Romans in connection to their political situation being somewhat like the post-Roman Italian principalities, the former heartland of an empire that is now politically disunited and prone to infighting. I hadn't envisioned any particular cultural aesthetic for them other than beings sort of inspired by the Chima crocodile people, having superficially 'tribal' aesthetics while being just as advanced as anyone else. I initially envisioned them as having hitched their fortunes to the rising star of the orcs but I've since moved away from the idea of the orcs being a major power.

16 hours ago, Classic_Spaceman said:

To the matter of species creation/development, what about taking a hybrid approach by combining old and new elements? This would keep the story from focusing entirely on either new or classic races (or mixing the two in such a way that results in excessive overlap between cultures), better accommodate part-availability, and allow for more diverse/interesting RP opportunities. 

I mean, it's nice, I like it, but the lava monsters don't really make me think 'orc' so much as 'demon'. Also, that is way to many apostrophes. Tone it down a little.

17 hours ago, Classic_Spaceman said:

I like this - I actually had a similar idea (Re: tangibility of deities), but that gods/demons/other supernatural beings would be extradimensional creatures. Additionally, this works well with my idea that magic stems from the manipulation of a substance called "Protomatter" (Neither Matter nor Antimatter, Protomatter was the initial material state of the universe, prior to the M/AM split (and subsequent annihilation of Antimatter). Some Protomatter remained, however, and controlling it grants almost limitless possible abilities). Deities could be beings of pure Protomatter (hence their ability to create/destroy/alter conditions/etc), and the use of magic would be the low-level equivalent of these powers. 

Other ideas on this subject: 1.) Universes that consist mainly of Protomatter theoretically exist, and tapping into one would be an immense source of energy. 2.) Jump Gates would be powered by an accumulation of ambient Protomatter. 
 

This is rather similar to something WBD mentioned to me he called 'Etherium', a sort of intangible substance people manipulate to cast spells. To be honest I prefer his name for it as your idea with it's antimatter and alternate universes teeters over lip of being overly like real-world science. I'd rather hew closer to a universe that functions on clearly spiritual causes rather than materialistic causality. And attempting to explain something as entropy-defying as magic away scientifically doesn't sound right to me anyway.

 

14 hours ago, Waterbrick Down said:

Completely understand about the connection between enthusiasm and involvement. I guess my pet peeve, is ideas are easier than actual work. Looking at Heroica 1.0, there was a lot of sacrifice by a few individuals to keep things floating and I understand that that comes with the territory, just trying to avoid burnout. As for your points on planetary destruction, this is a science fantasy game, the scale is naturally going to be bigger than Heroica 1.0 and the particular plot point of one planet or galaxy's destruction is bound to occur and the idea is by keeping it vague, it allows for some mystery to be expanded upon. Plus the destruction doesn't have to be explosion, as pointed out below:

There are other ways to achieve the same effect. My main line of thinking was:
- We have a war being fought by multiple factions
- Destruction of a galaxy or planet involved in the war leads to a tentative cease-fire/peace as no one is quite sure what caused it
- Fallout from the war/destruction have multiple impacts upon the remaining factions as inhabitants from the galaxy or planet had allies among all the factions

If you feel like a lot is being put on your shoulders I'm sorry, I didn't really think about how much you were taking on here. But look, if you're feeling like you're being asked to do all the work yourself you can ask for help, I don't think anyone here would be unwilling to make tangible contributions. Well all want this to be a success after all. :classic:
I think you're being a bit overconfident in saying that something like that is bound to happen simply by virtue of the setting. In the last game even things that were planned from the beginning ended up never happening. There were numerous locations (Pyr and the Eversummer Islands come to mind) that were never visited, and plotlines like orcish slavery in Eubric that were supposed to be important and ended up being mostly ignored. In light of that I don't see why a planet will inevitably be destroyed in the course of the game simply because it's a trope of the genre.
I'm not objecting to destruction per-se, it's more that blowing up planets annoys me in general. I'm perfectly fine with some of the more toned-down ideas Classic_Spaceman mentioned.

I'm not really a fan of that idea. Aside from it being a near-exact replica of the events of the Last War from Ebberon, it seems that would lead to a more Cold-War-like atmosphere. I was envisioning the situation being an interbellum period, with a second war breaking out being a very real danger. In that scenario the possibility of planetary destruction becomes the nuclear deterrent that prevents such a war from happening, a consequence so terrible that no-one would risk it.
My own ideas at the moment have shifted in the direction of two major powers going to war with each other and fighting for a while before one suddenly has a major rebellion while the other has a number of planets that didn't agree with the war secede. The situation briefly depends into chaos before the fighting grinds to a halt and the now four major groups sign peace terms. The ultimate situation is one where there's a tenuous peace that almost no-one is really happy with but they don't have the strength to challenge. It's not perfect, but it gets the atmosphere across.

15 hours ago, Waterbrick Down said:

Completely disagree. Almost all settings have some sort of major events both grand and destructive in their history that impact the way their world is today. One of Heroica 1.0's main underlying plots was the destruction of Mercution and the implications its fall-out had. It feels to me that this is more an issue because it's the fantasy races. How would you feel if it wasn't elves/dwarves/orcs and was simply a different alien species?

There are several differences between Mercuton and what you're suggesting, mostly in the fact that it didn't represent the entire elven civilization, and that it's ruins were still visitable adventure locations. Anything capable of outputting the utterly nonsensical about of energy needed to destroy a planet (like, say, an exploding star) probably wouldn't leave that much behind. And no, I'd still object to it regardless. I have said several times that I do not like blowing up planets as a fictional device and I'd like know why you seem to have so much trouble understanding that.

 

4 hours ago, Kintobor said:

What I’d like to see for our galaxy is an inner and outer rim, sort of like Star Wars. The inner rim are worlds set in stone, a little bit. They have named major spaceports, ecosystems, and inhabitants, as well as culture laid out. These planets are designed to be open enough that game masters have enough liberty to explore these planets and the stories on them easily enough, while maintaining a consistency to them. If you’re familiar with Age of Sigmar, think of Inner Rim planets like that games Realms: defined enough so you get an idea of what the planet is like, but vague enough for there to be room to explore.

The Outer Rim is a space for game masters to go wild and design whatever they like. Over time I imagine the Inner Rim expanding to include planets from the Outer Rim. We can in game explain this as a wiping of records and space maps in a recent conflict by some hostile force, and now the planetary routes need to be charted again. :classic:

Nurglings got into the wiring, I don’t know. :laugh:

This is sort of what I'd been thinking. My idea was that the setting would consist of a fairly well explored core area with a fringe of wilder space surrounded entirely by unexplored systems. I hadn't even thought that the entire Arm was explored, let alone a whole galaxy.

 

27 minutes ago, The Legonater said:

Jumping onto the Jump Gates idea, another possibility is simply that there are limited Jump Gates outside of the inner territories, and thus the outer worlds are mostly unexplored.

Well, when I came up with the idea of Jump Gates I envisioned them as each having a limited number of other Gates they could connect to, some only connecting to one and others to hundreds. Some gates would have connections that bypass nearby gates to go to ones much farther away while others have been destroyed by unknown forces. I did envision some systems having no gates, but they'd be scattered rather randomly around known space rather than concentrated at the edges. In fact the intent was to have most unexplored space behind gates nobody knew how to open, to emphasize that these were structures made for the proposes of long vanished empires rather than the convenience of the current crop of spacefaring civilizations. Spooky.

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17 hours ago, Waterbrick Down said:

I appreciate the attempt at synthesis. It's keeping orcs as orcs but essentially ignoring that they ever came from a fantasy setting, which I suppose is a good point to cover. In science fantasy we probably unconsciously think of two routes via which culture become spacefaring:
1. A species progresses through natural technological development similar to our real world just more advanced.
2. A species has access to space travel almost from the onset of their creation.

Answering this question, I believe can greatly impact how we perceive a culture or a setting.

I think that it could be more complex than just those two options. For example, I see the O’Ko’ruk as having developed sublight propulsion (solar sails and ion drives, specifically) themselves, then traded with other species for FTL technology once they began to venture further from their homeworld. Additionally, though all O’Ko’ruk clans are capable of using FTL ships and Jump Gates, some still prefer to use the old-style solar-ion hybrid drive systems for travelling between planets in their territories (in keeping with their nomadic roots). 

 

1 hour ago, Lord Duvors said:

Well, the Krassar aren't Roman, or even Roman-like. I only mentioned Romans in connection to their political situation being somewhat like the post-Roman Italian principalities, the former heartland of an empire that is now politically disunited and prone to infighting. I hadn't envisioned any particular cultural aesthetic for them other than beings sort of inspired by the Chima crocodile people, having superficially 'tribal' aesthetics while being just as advanced as anyone else. I initially envisioned them as having hitched their fortunes to the rising star of the orcs but I've since moved away from the idea of the orcs being a major power.

Ah, OK. 

1 hour ago, Lord Duvors said:

I mean, it's nice, I like it, but the lava monsters don't really make me think 'orc' so much as 'demon'. Also, that is way to many apostrophes. Tone it down a little. 

Many of the lava monster heads have designs similar to the old orc heads, just in red (Compare this and this, for example), and “Red Orcs” do exist
The reason for the apostrophes is to offset the syllables a bit, since each is pronounced somewhat distinctly (“oh-CORE-ook”). 
1 hour ago, Lord Duvors said:

This is rather similar to something WBD mentioned to me he called 'Etherium', a sort of intangible substance people manipulate to cast spells. To be honest I prefer his name for it as your idea with it's antimatter and alternate universes teeters over lip of being overly like real-world science. I'd rather hew closer to a universe that functions on clearly spiritual causes rather than materialistic causality. And attempting to explain something as entropy-defying as magic away scientifically doesn't sound right to me anyway. 

I actually like that better, as well. I was already trying to come up with a new name, since having “matter” in the name of a substance that is distinctly not matter seemed like a bit of a misnomer. 
did want a veneer of scientific explanation, though, since I find it difficult to believe that no one has attempted to study magic scientifically, but I intentionally made “Protomatter” vaguely-defined and limitless in its potential applications, in order to prevent this sense of over-quantification. 
1 hour ago, Lord Duvors said:

My own ideas at the moment have shifted in the direction of two major powers going to war with each other and fighting for a while before one suddenly has a major rebellion while the other has a number of planets that didn't agree with the war secede. The situation briefly depends into chaos before the fighting grinds to a halt and the now four major groups sign peace terms. The ultimate situation is one where there's a tenuous peace that almost no-one is really happy with but they don't have the strength to challenge. It's not perfect, but it gets the atmosphere across. 

This is very similar to what I had in-mind for the progression and outcome of the war. 👍

1 hour ago, Lord Duvors said:

I did envision some systems having no gates, but they'd be scattered rather randomly around known space rather than concentrated at the edges. In fact the intent was to have most unexplored space behind gates nobody knew how to open, to emphasize that these were structures made for the proposes of long vanished empires rather than the convenience of the current crop of spacefaring civilizations. Spooky.

Is this the Ancient Empire that you mentioned before, or something else? 
 

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On 10/22/2020 at 11:03 PM, Waterbrick Down said:

Embassy - 0% Complete
Vendors - 0% Complete

I was wondering if I wanted to (at some point in the future), if I could add another embassy from a "small kingdom", maybe it is across town (or something). 

For the vendors items has anyone come up with stat lowering items. What I had in in mind was "Vial of Sickness" witch lowers strength by 1 (for a time but doesn't poison the target).  Next one is "Radiation Burst" witch lowers spirit by 1 (for a time). Then "Radio Interference" witch lowers skill by 1 (for a time), I was thinking it could make hacking slightly harder if that was the route people wanted to go. I was trying to come up with stuff that sounds scientific and plausible at the same time. I did just think up of another one "Brainwasher" witch lowers smarts by 1 (don't know what else makes you stupider that is not some sort of Sickness). 

On a different note about planet(s) destruction, what if something thing "ate" the planet. That I was thinking about a quest (and not trying to give to much away) was what if a "thing" came along and take apart a planet. And not just one planet the whole System of planets including the "sun". Just so someone could build a "big thing" but at the same time they don't want anyone knowing what happen to the System, basically they want people wondering what happen to the place. I think part of my problem is with this quest is it might get a little to modern day political for some peoples taste, well it starts that way. 

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Just a few more points that got brought up. First one, "gods" maybe some of them should be like "demigods" because that is what some of them that have been brought sounds like to me. Besides "sci-fi gods" the first one that comes to my mind is Q (from Star Trek).

Next item, I do think transdimensional travel should be possible. Because one "enemy type" I have in mind basically comes from a "hell dimension" witch allows them to jump around from planet to planet. I was thinking it could be for a couple of different ways, one is someone summoned them or a bunch of death(s) allows them to break through to a planet. I imagine this is how most demons (or dark creatures) can show up on multiple planets. 

The explored Galaxy as other have said on only part of it should be know. I was thinking probably only a fourth of it. That way it gives potential Game Masters a place to go for newer stuff. Again, I am bringing up Star Trek in The Next Generation how much of the galaxy was actually considering explored. 

For any jump gates maybe they should be only used for long distance travel, like the interstate highway between big cities. (I am sure someone mentioned something similar just can't remember who). 

For "magic", their is different types of "wizards". I can imagine their is a couple of different types of "magic particles" that get used for spell casting. 

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4 hours ago, samurai-turtle said:

On a different note about planet(s) destruction, what if something thing "ate" the planet. That I was thinking about a quest (and not trying to give to much away) was what if a "thing" came along and take apart a planet. And not just one planet the whole System of planets including the "sun". Just so someone could build a "big thing" but at the same time they don't want anyone knowing what happen to the System, basically they want people wondering what happen to the place. I think part of my problem is with this quest is it might get a little to modern day political for some peoples taste, well it starts that way. 

My first thought when I read this was some combination of Galactus and the construction of the Death Star and Starkiller Base, so I am not sure what you mean by "too modern day political". 🤔

3 hours ago, samurai-turtle said:

Because one "enemy type" I have in mind basically comes from a "hell dimension" witch allows them to jump around from planet to planet. I was thinking it could be for a couple of different ways, one is someone summoned them or a bunch of death(s) allows them to break through to a planet. I imagine this is how most demons (or dark creatures) can show up on multiple planets. 

Is this related to the "Saturn Family" that you referenced during Mission Zero? 
 

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5 hours ago, Classic_Spaceman said:

My first thought when I read this was some combination of Galactus and the construction of the Death Star and Starkiller Base, so I am not sure what you mean by "too modern day political". 🤔

Is this related to the "Saturn Family" that you referenced during Mission Zero? 
 

It sort of similar to the Death Star / Star Killer, as if you ever heard of the Star Forge from "knights of the old republic", and how it would get made. As for the "to modern day political" I am referring to the background story I had in mind, but I might not do it because part of it is just wishful thinking on my part. 

Sort of, since they would be part of this "hell dimensnion", mostly it is just naming things at this point. Plus we should consider things / creatures might have more than one name since they could be far spread and the locals probably would not of heard of the other name. 

 

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On 10/25/2020 at 5:47 PM, Classic_Spaceman said:

I think that it could be more complex than just those two options. For example, I see the O’Ko’ruk as having developed sublight propulsion (solar sails and ion drives, specifically) themselves, then traded with other species for FTL technology once they began to venture further from their homeworld. Additionally, though all O’Ko’ruk clans are capable of using FTL ships and Jump Gates, some still prefer to use the old-style solar-ion hybrid drive systems for travelling between planets in their territories (in keeping with their nomadic roots). 

The problem there is that sublight drives take something along the order of several hundred years to make interstellar journeys. That's a bit slow for this universe I'm afraid and doesn't allow much wiggle room for a MM to just handwave travel times. Normally in the old game ship transit usually lasted for a few social interactions with npc crew and maybe a battle or mini game regardless of distance because anything more would rapidly grow stale. The main exception to this was when the journey was the main element of the quest. Now, sublight interstellar ships in the form of generation sips would be an interesting setting, but I think that's a little bigger than what you're talking about. In system it's probably fine though, which is what it think you're suggesting. But I have to point out that we shouldn't assume that natural technological progression would follow hard sci-fi lines. Despite the superficial similarities to our universe, the fictional one we're devising clearly runs on entirely different laws (see; magic).

On 10/25/2020 at 5:47 PM, Classic_Spaceman said:

Many of the lava monster heads have designs similar to the old orc heads, just in red (Compare this and this, for example), and “Red Orcs” do exist
The reason for the apostrophes is to offset the syllables a bit, since each is pronounced somewhat distinctly (“oh-CORE-ook”). 

Eh, the fact that most 'evil monster man' designs look much the same and that some people have made pictures of red orcs isn't really a convincing argument. It's not really important though, mostly the lava monsters make me think of demons because that's basically what they are. In fact I'd like the aliens to have multiple skin tones because, well, alien ethnicities aren't done often enough.
If you want to separate syllables them I'd suggest using a hyphen, it's what they're for.

On 10/25/2020 at 5:47 PM, Classic_Spaceman said:

I actually like that better, as well. I was already trying to come up with a new name, since having “matter” in the name of a substance that is distinctly not matter seemed like a bit of a misnomer. 
did want a veneer of scientific explanation, though, since I find it difficult to believe that no one has attempted to study magic scientifically, but I intentionally made “Protomatter” vaguely-defined and limitless in its potential applications, in order to prevent this sense of over-quantification. 

Oh yes absolutely. I just feel that the names of things should reflect the fantastic nature of the setting even if they are scientifically understood. For instance I've become attached to the idea of saying 'druidic sciences' instead of 'life sciences' (mostly because the nature skill also lets you learn spells).

On 10/25/2020 at 5:47 PM, Classic_Spaceman said:

Is this the Ancient Empire that you mentioned before, or something else? 

Something else. The Ancient Empire was supposed to act as a unifying progenitor for humans, elves, and dwarves to explain why they all looked so darn similar, vague at the start of the game and defined more later. Their relics are mostly only found in ancestral space of the three species and nowhere else. The Gates (and maybe a few other structures) were built long before them by civilizations so ancient nobody can even guess at what they were like. If the Ancient Empire was Ancient Egypt then the Gate Builders would predate Akkad.

 

22 hours ago, samurai-turtle said:

On a different note about planet(s) destruction, what if something thing "ate" the planet. That I was thinking about a quest (and not trying to give to much away) was what if a "thing" came along and take apart a planet. And not just one planet the whole System of planets including the "sun". Just so someone could build a "big thing" but at the same time they don't want anyone knowing what happen to the System, basically they want people wondering what happen to the place. I think part of my problem is with this quest is it might get a little to modern day political for some peoples taste, well it starts that way. 

You know this actually brings us another objection I had to the whole 'planet destroying' thing; I don't thinking of the factions should have that kind of power. As I said, having planet destroyers running around would essentially make war impossible as it would act as the ultimate nuclear option.

21 hours ago, samurai-turtle said:

Next item, I do think transdimensional travel should be possible. Because one "enemy type" I have in mind basically comes from a "hell dimension" witch allows them to jump around from planet to planet. I was thinking it could be for a couple of different ways, one is someone summoned them or a bunch of death(s) allows them to break through to a planet. I imagine this is how most demons (or dark creatures) can show up on multiple planets. 

To be honest this is kind of what I was referring to with my 'spheres' idea. In fact it was your 'Saturn Family' that put me on to the idea, as that made me think of a setting where the planes of existence are based on the planets as depicted in medieval astrology. I was thinking that smaller, less powerful creatures could slip between spheres fairly easily but bigger, more powerful creatures have a harder and harder time getting through until the strongest have to be let in by someone on the other side.
In the end I don't think this needs to be defined at the start of the game, it's something to be worked out later. But your basic idea is good, you need all those scary space demons to come from somewhere.

22 hours ago, samurai-turtle said:

For any jump gates maybe they should be only used for long distance travel, like the interstate highway between big cities. (I am sure someone mentioned something similar just can't remember who). 

Well, the gates were only supposed to have one in any star system, so that's more or less how they'd work. An idea I had was that you can only open a tunnel between two gates at a time, and after that the gates need a set amount of time to recharge. So the gates would probably have set departure/arrival times for when they're activated, with gates that have multiple connections cycling between them. This last bit means that the fastest route between two places can sometimes change based on where some gates are in their cycle.

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On 10/25/2020 at 3:18 PM, Lord Duvors said:

If you feel like a lot is being put on your shoulders I'm sorry, I didn't really think about how much you were taking on here. But look, if you're feeling like you're being asked to do all the work yourself you can ask for help, I don't think anyone here would be unwilling to make tangible contributions. Well all want this to be a success after all. :classic:
I think you're being a bit overconfident in saying that something like that is bound to happen simply by virtue of the setting. In the last game even things that were planned from the beginning ended up never happening. There were numerous locations (Pyr and the Eversummer Islands come to mind) that were never visited, and plotlines like orcish slavery in Eubric that were supposed to be important and ended up being mostly ignored. In light of that I don't see why a planet will inevitably be destroyed in the course of the game simply because it's a trope of the genre.
I'm not objecting to destruction per-se, it's more that blowing up planets annoys me in general. I'm perfectly fine with some of the more toned-down ideas Classic_Spaceman mentioned.

I'm not really a fan of that idea. Aside from it being a near-exact replica of the events of the Last War from Ebberon, it seems that would lead to a more Cold-War-like atmosphere. I was envisioning the situation being an interbellum period, with a second war breaking out being a very real danger. In that scenario the possibility of planetary destruction becomes the nuclear deterrent that prevents such a war from happening, a consequence so terrible that no-one would risk it.
My own ideas at the moment have shifted in the direction of two major powers going to war with each other and fighting for a while before one suddenly has a major rebellion while the other has a number of planets that didn't agree with the war secede. The situation briefly depends into chaos before the fighting grinds to a halt and the now four major groups sign peace terms. The ultimate situation is one where there's a tenuous peace that almost no-one is really happy with but they don't have the strength to challenge. It's not perfect, but it gets the atmosphere across.

I get it, you're not a fan of planetoid destruction and the idea behind reserving the actual nature of the destruction was to allow for a mystery of what other forces are at work. I'd agree that if it was plainly relayed that the planet was destroyed via a massive super-weapon than you could lose some of the verisimilitude, because it then begs the question as to why it hasn't been used sooner or isn't used more regularly. By keeping it a mystery, it allows for the imagination to run wild on ideas and rumors to spread amongst the populace. And I suppose I should say that it's not a guarantee that a planet would be destroyed at some point, but that the likelihood was high given typical sci-fi tropes.

I'll grant you the similarities to Ebberon's last war, the issue I have with the current suggested war is that it becomes so much like the ending of Heroica 1.0. Another issue was the original war seemed geared as traditional fantasy races vs. alien races vs. orcs and I wasn't necessarily completely sold on the distribution of the factions. I like the idea of 2 factions dealing with inner conflicts a little better and I think if we stick to something simple such as the old established military power vs. the new rising economic culture we're sure to get something simple enough without feeling like every quest has to be tied to the current major events.

On 10/25/2020 at 11:27 PM, samurai-turtle said:

I was wondering if I wanted to (at some point in the future), if I could add another embassy from a "small kingdom", maybe it is across town (or something). 

For the vendors items has anyone come up with stat lowering items. What I had in in mind was "Vial of Sickness" witch lowers strength by 1 (for a time but doesn't poison the target).  Next one is "Radiation Burst" witch lowers spirit by 1 (for a time). Then "Radio Interference" witch lowers skill by 1 (for a time), I was thinking it could make hacking slightly harder if that was the route people wanted to go. I was trying to come up with stuff that sounds scientific and plausible at the same time. I did just think up of another one "Brainwasher" witch lowers smarts by 1 (don't know what else makes you stupider that is not some sort of Sickness). 

On a different note about planet(s) destruction, what if something thing "ate" the planet. That I was thinking about a quest (and not trying to give to much away) was what if a "thing" came along and take apart a planet. And not just one planet the whole System of planets including the "sun". Just so someone could build a "big thing" but at the same time they don't want anyone knowing what happen to the System, basically they want people wondering what happen to the place. I think part of my problem is with this quest is it might get a little to modern day political for some peoples taste, well it starts that way. 

The point of the Embassy topic is to be a repository of species history, we can have other narrative diplomatic embassies across town.

Items can interact with stats in a variety of ways in this system, I think I've listed them previously:
Increase/Decrease the numerical threshold for a success
Add/Subtract automatic successes
Increase/Decrease the number of dice
Allow for one or more dice to be rerolled

And all of these can be applied to an Attribute or a Proficiency or a given Battle Action. So the number of items can be quite numerous. The intention with the shops will be to provide equipment, weapon/weapon upgrades, and consumables.

On 10/25/2020 at 2:41 PM, The Legonater said:

In my own world that I've been building, each species has kind of its own take on spaceflight. I don't think it should be that complicated for 2.0, but I do like the idea of some culture having magic spaceflight and others maybe having more scientific spaceflight. As a whole, though, Jump Gates are a good way to keep things really simple. Otherwise, you start having to ask the mechanics of FTL travel and how small the world really is. 

This could be an interesting point of conflict. A recent breakthrough in a new type of transportation technology could certainly upset the balance of the universe and potentially lead to conflict.

My original thought was most space travel would be magically driven. Mages were at one point a necessity for star-travel and eventually figured out how to utilize the gates for further travel outside the system. Future advances in magi-tech allowed for fewer mages to be necessary, but the systems still were powered with magic.

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15 hours ago, Waterbrick Down said:

I get it, you're not a fan of planetoid destruction and the idea behind reserving the actual nature of the destruction was to allow for a mystery of what other forces are at work. I'd agree that if it was plainly relayed that the planet was destroyed via a massive super-weapon than you could lose some of the verisimilitude, because it then begs the question as to why it hasn't been used sooner or isn't used more regularly. By keeping it a mystery, it allows for the imagination to run wild on ideas and rumors to spread amongst the populace. And I suppose I should say that it's not a guarantee that a planet would be destroyed at some point, but that the likelihood was high given typical sci-fi tropes.

I'll grant you the similarities to Ebberon's last war, the issue I have with the current suggested war is that it becomes so much like the ending of Heroica 1.0. Another issue was the original war seemed geared as traditional fantasy races vs. alien races vs. orcs and I wasn't necessarily completely sold on the distribution of the factions. I like the idea of 2 factions dealing with inner conflicts a little better and I think if we stick to something simple such as the old established military power vs. the new rising economic culture we're sure to get something simple enough without feeling like every quest has to be tied to the current major events.

I know, but I'd rather avoid having a direct parallel to the destruction of Cyre, especially since in that setting it was the very mystery of it's destruction that resulted in the 'Cold War' atmosphere. I wouldn't mind a species who lost their homeworld to pollution or nuclear war or being forced out by colonists though as I think the idea has some merit.

As for the similarities the war possesses to the last game, that was somewhat intentional. But I don't think it's that alike. The recent nature of the war, the fact that it had no clear winner, and the possibility of it's restarting give it a very different atmosphere, and unlike the last game everyone involved is still around and a major player in some capacity. The factions I suggested in the original post were less 'fantasy vs. sci-fi vs. orcs' and more 'sci-fi+some fantasy vs. sci-fi vs. orcs+some sci-fi'. I think the reason the League came off as primarily fantasy is because I made a detailed write-up for the only 'fantasy' faction in it, which probably made it come off as more prominent and important than it actually was intended.

15 hours ago, Waterbrick Down said:

This could be an interesting point of conflict. A recent breakthrough in a new type of transportation technology could certainly upset the balance of the universe and potentially lead to conflict.

My original thought was most space travel would be magically driven. Mages were at one point a necessity for star-travel and eventually figured out how to utilize the gates for further travel outside the system. Future advances in magi-tech allowed for fewer mages to be necessary, but the systems still were powered with magic.

Makes sense. On aesthetics I feel that the 'slow' FTL that most spaceships use would look like the stars were just speeding past you really quickly whereas the 'tunnels' opened by a Gate would look like this.

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On 10/27/2020 at 4:41 PM, Lord Duvors said:

I know, but I'd rather avoid having a direct parallel to the destruction of Cyre, especially since in that setting it was the very mystery of it's destruction that resulted in the 'Cold War' atmosphere. I wouldn't mind a species who lost their homeworld to pollution or nuclear war or being forced out by colonists though as I think the idea has some merit.

Perhaps, but it is different in that as neither faction claims responsibility the whole stand-off can only last so long as mutual destruction isn't a guarantee as it would have been in the Cold War scenario. If we are going with something more specified, I'd like to avoid species caused events as that lends itself automatically to one side claiming more of a moral high ground.

On 10/27/2020 at 4:41 PM, Lord Duvors said:

As for the similarities the war possesses to the last game, that was somewhat intentional. But I don't think it's that alike. The recent nature of the war, the fact that it had no clear winner, and the possibility of it's restarting give it a very different atmosphere, and unlike the last game everyone involved is still around and a major player in some capacity. The factions I suggested in the original post were less 'fantasy vs. sci-fi vs. orcs' and more 'sci-fi+some fantasy vs. sci-fi vs. orcs+some sci-fi'. I think the reason the League came off as primarily fantasy is because I made a detailed write-up for the only 'fantasy' faction in it, which probably made it come off as more prominent and important than it actually was intended.

Yep and that was my main concern. I wanted a creative space where non-fantasy races were as valid a pick both from a narrative standpoint as well as a alignment standpoint. While the starting space station would be somewhat faction neutral, if one faction is tipped more in the fantasy and the other in the sci-fi and the fantasy has more relatable motivations/narratives/etc. we'd be throwing off the balance right from the start.

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19 hours ago, Waterbrick Down said:

Perhaps, but it is different in that as neither faction claims responsibility the whole stand-off can only last so long as mutual destruction isn't a guarantee as it would have been in the Cold War scenario. If we are going with something more specified, I'd like to avoid species caused events as that lends itself automatically to one side claiming more of a moral high ground.

True, but if a species renders it's own planet uninhabitable then there's no moral high ground to claim.

19 hours ago, Waterbrick Down said:

Yep and that was my main concern. I wanted a creative space where non-fantasy races were as valid a pick both from a narrative standpoint as well as a alignment standpoint. While the starting space station would be somewhat faction neutral, if one faction is tipped more in the fantasy and the other in the sci-fi and the fantasy has more relatable motivations/narratives/etc. we'd be throwing off the balance right from the start.

True again, but as I said the League wasn't supposed to be primarily fantasy. And I think you may be feeling that they were intended to be more sympathetic as they were written as being democratic as opposed to autocratic, but that can be a misleading sentiment. Currently I'm viewing them as being heavily over-militarized, expansionistic, and consumed by a type of condescending cultural imperialism. They were certainly eager enough to prosecute a war that a large part of their population didn't want, hence the succession.

As you may have noticed my attitude to equalizing factions is not to make them equally good, but to make them equally bad (or equally flawed is possibly a better way of putting it). This might not appeal to everyone, but in this context I think creating a half-full universe works to our favor. It acts as an incentive to our players to attempt to change things for the better. Or ride the rollercoaster all the way over the edge of the cliff depending on what happens.

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