Heroica: Glory Amongst The Stars RPG - Game Development

[Yzalirk]

2 hours ago, Endgame said:

While I agree that the spell system might need a second look at, I don't think requiring investment into a certain skill to cast spells is necessarily a bad thing. Keep in mind on character creation, you only need to spend 2 of your creation points/EXP to get a magic based proficiency up to 2, which is the minimum needed to start slinging spells. Remember, builds require and investment; and because we currently don't have a class system, you'll never find yourself in a situation like in Heroica 1.0, where certain classes would be forever locked off to you depending on your very first choice. All builds are possible at any time, given the time investment, which I think is a nice feature of the system.

That is exactly why I really like this new character system - it allows for much more potential and freedom on who you want to be.

One of the things I disliked about Heroica 1.0 was character limitations.  You use a certain class and you are locked to a select few weapon types and almost had a specific play style you had to abide by.  You play a Knight and you are pretty much supposed to be the honorable and just type unless you choose to be a Black Knight later on.

I also agree that your character's build is an investment.  Obviously being super good at something to begin with is not fun.  At times it even makes roleplaying a bit boring. After all, we are supposed to be nobodies to begin with.  The most fun to be had is developing your character and just having fun with it.  Having the option to be a Stealth Mage seems possible with this system if you really want to go that route.  That actually sounds pretty fun in my opinion! 

I just wonder how far you can stretch the possibilities though.  Can you dual wield weapons and attack two different enemies at once?  That would be awesome and exactly what I would want to do.  What about unique loot.  Will there be gear with fun traits like in Heroica 1.0 or will they simply have stat and proficiency boosts?

[Duvors]

2 hours ago, Endgame said:

While I agree that the spell system might need a second look at, I don't think requiring investment into a certain skill to cast spells is necessarily a bad thing. Keep in mind on character creation, you only need to spend 2 of your creation points/EXP to get a magic based proficiency up to 2, which is the minimum needed to start slinging spells. Remember, builds require and investment; and because we currently don't have a class system, you'll never find yourself in a situation like in Heroica 1.0, where certain classes would be forever locked off to you depending on your very first choice. All builds are possible at any time, given the time investment, which I think is a nice feature of the system.

You don't understand, my issue is more with the fact that every character seems obliged to take at least one of these skills by design, even if a player doesn't want their character to be an expert in any of those fields. I have other problems with magic as well, ranging from its general lack of effectiveness at entry level to the weird way it scales compared with other proficiencies, but I feel that all can wait for a more detailed critique of the system as a whole after the quest. That being said there is one thing I feel it urgent to point out now. Namely that under the current rules it's entirely possible to hit the DC to cast a spell and still do nothing, which just feels bad. I mean, getting the exact amount of successes you need to cast the spell and nothing over means that your Elemental Evocation does no damage, your Healing Light doesn't heal anybody, your Mystic Binding has a duration of 0 etcetera etcetera.

[Endgame]

23 minutes ago, Goliath said:

I just wonder how far you can stretch the possibilities though.  Can you dual wield weapons and attack two different enemies at once?  That would be awesome and exactly what I would want to do.  What about unique loot.  Will there be gear with fun traits like in Heroica 1.0 or will they simply have stat and proficiency boosts?

Right now... none of that yet. Will there be in due time, if/when the game starts in full? Can't say! Honestly... probably? Heroica suffered from a very bad case of power creep that made making and running battles for higher level heroes a bit of a hassle, so I think trying to contain that would be best. That doesn't mean "no fun loot," in means being more careful with what you give out.

It's important to remember how basic the early days of Heroica were. We don't need Heroica 2.0 to match Heroica 1.0's depth right out the gate - that game had years upon years to build and grow, as new classes and mechanics manifested! Hell, some of them came so late in the life cycle I didn't even get a chance to use them, and I QMed like 15 times. I'm sure fun drops will find its way into your hands eventually.

21 minutes ago, Lord Duvors said:

You don't understand, my issue is more with the fact that every character seems obliged to take at least one of these skills by design, even if a player doesn't want their character to be an expert in any of those fields. I have other problems with magic as well, ranging from its general lack of effectiveness at entry level to the weird way it scales compared with other proficiencies, but I feel that all can wait for a more detailed critique of the system as a whole after the quest. That being said there is one thing I feel it urgent to point out now. Namely that under the current rules it's entirely possible to hit the DC to cast a spell and still do nothing, which just feels bad. I mean, getting the exact amount of successes you need to cast the spell and nothing over means that your Elemental Evocation does no damage, your Healing Light doesn't heal anybody, your Mystic Binding has a duration of 0 etcetera etcetera.

I have a feeling that spells  could very well become a combat obligation in the future, so I agree with you there. (Consider this a Bold Prediction, but I have the feeling that telpeortation spells are going to be huge in this game, especially if MMs start making battle grids bigger. Right now movement is slow.)

And on matching the spell check thing: yes, and I was thinking of ways to fix that today. This was an issue that became clear to me when KotZ's spell backfired. On one hand, attacks can fail too... but that's because the enemy is passing either a dodge check of some nature, has armor, or both, so an attack doing zero doesn't feel as bad. However, hitting a DC and then gaining nothing just feels awful by comparison, because the only thing you're rolling against is an arbitrary number, not an opponent.

The quick and easy fix is to say that if you meet the DC, add one to your check and then proceed as normal, but I don't know if that scales well long term? Kind of feels like a hacky solution to me, but I'm not sure.

Insert a "this is why we test!" here. It's becoming my mantra.

[joeshmoe554]

I think instead of spells, I would like to see something like abilities.  That can include spells, but it could also include other abilities like Charge (rushing attack with Athletics/Melee), Quick Draw (ranged counter attack using Short Range/Perception), and other things that may have similar effects to spells but not utilize the magical proficiencies.

The existing spells would still work, but it could up the design to more character variation.

[KotZ]

Why not have the first spell be free to cast? That way players of all types don't have to spec into spellcasting but will always have that first freebie to use if they desire?

Just now, joeshmoe554 said:

I think instead of spells, I would like to see something like abilities.  That can include spells, but it could also include other abilities like Charge (rushing attack with Athletics/Melee), Quick Draw (ranged counter attack using Short Range/Perception), and other things that may have similar effects to spells but not utilize the magical proficiencies.

The existing spells would still work, but it could up the design to more character variation.

Different abilities would be cool, too. That way people playing more "warrior" types and others who aren't spellcaster-heavy have things to do. If I'm not mistaken, Destiny 1/2 had similar abilities for their three classes. Not sure how complicated it would get though.

[Classic_Spaceman]

21 minutes ago, joeshmoe554 said:

I think instead of spells, I would like to see something like abilities.  That can include spells, but it could also include other abilities like Charge (rushing attack with Athletics/Melee), Quick Draw (ranged counter attack using Short Range/Perception), and other things that may have similar effects to spells but not utilize the magical proficiencies.

I like this! I can see other potential abilities, as well (e.g. Something that combines Acrobatics and weapons, thus allowing movement and attack in the same round). 
 

[joeshmoe554]

29 minutes ago, KotZ said:

Different abilities would be cool, too. That way people playing more "warrior" types and others who aren't spellcaster-heavy have things to do. If I'm not mistaken, Destiny 1/2 had similar abilities for their three classes. Not sure how complicated it would get though.

It is true that the more abilities that exist, the more a Mission Master may have to reference during a battle.  That could quickly result in a lot more difficulty, though the limit on how many spells/abilities a character can use in battle may keep it manageable.

[Endgame]

Hmmm... I will think of ways to implement "abilities." Part of me is tempted to make Spirit a more generic stat (Stamina?) and have Spells rebranded into abilities, where some of them are, from a lore perspective, still spells - others are physical feats and abilities, such as a Rushdown ability that allows you to make an Athletics check to charge at an opponent, for example. That's my first thought, anyway. That'd be a major upheaval though, so it needs ample thought to be put into it.

Also, we now have our first example of a "nested" proficiency check, with Igaz's, ah, "disguise."

[Yzalirk]

I really wanted to try something creative with the roleplay and, whether or not it works, I am really enjoying it!  I personally love thinking outside the box and doing less conventional things.  It makes the experience a bit more exciting and amusing. 

Abilities sound like a fun idea but they seem almost unnecessary to launch with.  I think expanding the character creation system further might become overwhelming.  You would have to add abilities to compliment just about every play style and still balance them.  Perhaps they could be added later as Implant Abilities?

Implant Abilities, or Implants, would be purchased by players using Credits.  Think of them like character augmentations or cybernetic enhancements meant to boost certain capabilities.  For example, maybe one can let you move an extra space in combat.  Maybe another can give you one extra space of range when using Ranged Weapons.

Though when I think about it, these might make unique and special gear obsolete unless these Abilities are exclusive and are combat-specific?  Regardless, I think Abilities should be a more prevalent feature mid to late game.

[joeshmoe554]

6 hours ago, Goliath said:

Abilities sound like a fun idea but they seem almost unnecessary to launch with.  I think expanding the character creation system further might become overwhelming.  You would have to add abilities to compliment just about every play style and still balance them.  Perhaps they could be added later as Implant Abilities? 

The game could start with a small number of abilities and easily expand on that over time.  Starting with the existence of abilities allows for an easier expansion of the game than having to modify the rules later to accommodate something like that.

Also, since spells already exist, abilities are no different than the current system, just a different naming convention to allow for more design.

[Endgame]

I hope you guys know I am not rolling for one PC reprogramming another.

Edited January 24, 2020 by Endgame

[Yzalirk]

4 minutes ago, Endgame said:

I hope you guys know I am not rolling for one PC reprogramming another.

Yeah that would just be cruel. 

[samurai-turtle]

1 hour ago, Endgame said:

I hope you guys know I am not rolling for one PC reprogramming another.

 

53 minutes ago, Goliath said:

Yeah that would just be cruel. 

Well I think some going to be disappointed.  

[Yzalirk]

Well I think it should go without saying that players cannot manipulate another player by reprogramming them or whatever.  It is an unwritten rule essentially.  Unless maybe the players both agree to do something of that nature tor a roleplaying purpose?

Remember that this game is meant to be fun!  Sure we may screw something up but what fun is it when everything goes perfectly?  I really thought Tester-Three smashing the E-11's engine was pretty funny!  Actions like that make the roleplay more fun and adds more character to a character.  Tester-Three appears to be about affirmative action rather than thinking before acting.  He is a droid after all and thinking is not part of his programming, at least that is my guess.  But as a character he can grow to learn from that. 

[The Legonater]

I've been doing some figbarfing, so here are a few of my results:

[samurai-turtle]

On 1/23/2020 at 11:33 PM, Goliath said:

Well I think it should go without saying that players cannot manipulate another player by reprogramming them or whatever.  It is an unwritten rule essentially.  Unless maybe the players both agree to do something of that nature tor a roleplaying purpose?

Remember that this game is meant to be fun!  Sure we may screw something up but what fun is it when everything goes perfectly?  I really thought Tester-Three smashing the E-11's engine was pretty funny!  Actions like that make the roleplay more fun and adds more character to a character.  Tester-Three appears to be about affirmative action rather than thinking before acting.  He is a droid after all and thinking is not part of his programming, at least that is my guess.  But as a character he can grow to learn from that. 

 

On 1/23/2020 at 9:17 PM, Lord Duvors said:

 

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For real, attempting to dictate the behavior and opinions of another players character, which is what you seem to be doing, is a major breach of etiquette. You are in control of your character and no one else's.

 

I feeling like I should say  something here, first off I hope @Classic_Spaceman is just role playing and not ticked off (I get it could be a possibility here). Plus, I get the feeling it is your first time playing a game like this. And I guess we all did dumb stuff our first time. 

Second thing I wasn't trying to be funny when I had Tester-Three hit the ship. I guess it just worked out that way. What I was trying to do was explained War Bot's have more than one weapon(s) to use. But at the same time I did not just wanted "it" to magically have one, so I figured if it got damaged some how it would be better. I did think of having "it" hitting the "electrified fence" and get the same results, but then spaceship sudden came up and I thought it would be better / make more sense. 

The third thing I am thinking War Bots could make a decent enemies like Orc(s). Not entirely evil but a possibility big pain in the back side. So I am trying to semi make a template of what they can do and act like. Plus I have a few more things they can be loaded up with that might not been mentioned yet. 

[Classic_Spaceman]

3 minutes ago, samurai-turtle said:

first off I hope @Classic_Spaceman is just role playing and not ticked off (I get it could be a possibility here). Plus, I get the feeling it is your first time playing a game like this. And I guess we all did dumb stuff our first time. 

Exactly. Yelana was angry, but I was just role-playing (though I should have made that more clear!). 
Also, you are correct - I am new to this, so I do not yet have a full grasp of RP-etiquette! 
 

[Endgame]

On 1/24/2020 at 4:27 AM, The Legonater said:

I've been doing some figbarfing, so here are a few of my results:

 

Great figs! It makes me happy to see even more oldbies sticking around and having interest in the new game.

2 hours ago, samurai-turtle said:

The third thing I am thinking War Bots could make a decent enemies like Orc(s). Not entirely evil but a possibility big pain in the back side. So I am trying to semi make a template of what they can do and act like. Plus I have a few more things they can be loaded up with that might not been mentioned yet. 

I think droids in general will make excellent cannon fodder in this game... anyone with the money and buy them and direct them, after all. War Bots being Super Battle Droids only makes that easier.

2 hours ago, Classic_Spaceman said:

Exactly. Yelana was angry, but I was just role-playing (though I should have made that more clear!). 
Also, you are correct - I am new to this, so I do not yet have a full grasp of RP-etiquette! 
 

It takes time for everyone to learn. I was way worse back when I started.

Two points of advice would be: Heroica, whether its medieval or in space, is a team game - so work with your team to get stuff done.

And:

Sometimes, if it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, its a duck. Sometimes it isn't, but more often than not, it is. (What I'm saying is, you should exercise a healthy fear of your MM, but not everything is a trap out to get you. Sometimes I'm just worldbuilding. )

[Classic_Spaceman]

25 minutes ago, Endgame said:

Sometimes, if it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, its a duck. Sometimes it isn't, but more often than not, it is. (What I'm saying is, you should exercise a healthy fear of your MM, but not everything is a trap out to get you. Sometimes I'm just worldbuilding. )

I am not exactly sure to what you are referring. ?
 

[Yzalirk]

4 hours ago, samurai-turtle said:

I feeling like I should say  something here, first off I hope @Classic_Spaceman is just role playing and not ticked off (I get it could be a possibility here). Plus, I get the feeling it is your first time playing a game like this. And I guess we all did dumb stuff our first time. 

Second thing I wasn't trying to be funny when I had Tester-Three hit the ship. I guess it just worked out that way. What I was trying to do was explained War Bot's have more than one weapon(s) to use. But at the same time I did not just wanted "it" to magically have one, so I figured if it got damaged some how it would be better. I did think of having "it" hitting the "electrified fence" and get the same results, but then spaceship sudden came up and I thought it would be better / make more sense. 

The third thing I am thinking War Bots could make a decent enemies like Orc(s). Not entirely evil but a possibility big pain in the back side. So I am trying to semi make a template of what they can do and act like. Plus I have a few more things they can be loaded up with that might not been mentioned yet. 

I think you should check with the MM about that first.  That seemed more like an "Ability" rather than a weapon.  Personally I think you should just attribute that as a roleplay thing and base it off of Strength.  I do not think it would bode well in combat as a weapon.

I just thought it was funny because something so advanced acted rather unintelligently.  Perhaps that is more irony I guess.  But like I said, Tester-Three does not have the same mindset as someone who is flesh and blood.  They probably were not programmed to act in such ways that would be deemed acceptable by others.  Eventually they become accustomed to such behavior over time.  This scenario is no different that someone with a tribal or barbaric background.

They could but keep in mind they do not have to be just War Bots.  They could be programmed with different protocols, such as Security, Law Enforcement, or even Corrections.

[samurai-turtle]

2 hours ago, Endgame said:

I think droids in general will make excellent cannon fodder in this game... anyone with the money and buy them and direct them, after all. War Bots being Super Battle Droids only makes that easier. 

Their is different robots to use like the ones from Exo-Force and the "little" ones from Nexo Knights. In my head the War Bots are a fusion of Super Battle Droids & Cylons (from the rebooted Battlestar Galactica) some might say they were design similarly. Plus whatever other odd thing(s) they picked up along the way. The fact LEGO makes Super Battle Droids makes it easier for me (and who ever else) to use. 

15 minutes ago, Goliath said:

I think you should check with the MM about that first.  That seemed more like an "Ability" rather than a weapon.  Personally I think you should just attribute that as a roleplay thing and base it off of Strength.  I do not think it would bode well in combat as a weapon.

I just thought it was funny because something so advanced acted rather unintelligently.  Perhaps that is more irony I guess.  But like I said, Tester-Three does not have the same mindset as someone who is flesh and blood.  They probably were not programmed to act in such ways that would be deemed acceptable by others.  Eventually they become accustomed to such behavior over time.  This scenario is no different that someone with a tribal or barbaric background.

They could but keep in mind they do not have to be just War Bots.  They could be programmed with different protocols, such as Security, Law Enforcement, or even Corrections.

I did bring it up with Endgame. My thinking is the "Sonic Chop" is a backup weapon in case someone does get got in "it's" face for whatever reason.  

Well if I have to defend it's action, the spaceship is a piece of crud. And most likely excessive fuel was leaking in the engine. Plus sound is just vibration witch could cause friction and a by product of friction is heat, if the fuel is anything like current fuel it would likely go boom. And most likely Tester-Three assumed KR-88 request was a sub mission objective witch need completed. Plus it did show how tough a War Bot could be taking a hit like that and basically be alright. 

I guess it depends who gets their hands on them (and most likey reprogram them). As right now the only other thing I see them doing is guarding their own "facilities". 

[KotZ]

14 hours ago, Endgame said:

(What I'm saying is, you should exercise a healthy fear of your MM, but not everything is a trap out to get you. Sometimes I'm just worldbuilding. )

I don't believe you.

[Endgame]

3 hours ago, KotZ said:

I don't believe you.

I don't see what you could be possibly afraid of.

[KotZ]

1 hour ago, Endgame said:

I don't see what you could be possibly afraid of.

I'm sure you wouldn't put a giant mecha-dragon in it.

[samurai-turtle]

1 hour ago, Endgame said:

I don't see what you could be possibly afraid of.

Maybe an attack from a spaceship from orbit.