Heroica: Glory Amongst The Stars RPG - Game Development

[KotZ]

11 hours ago, Waterbrick Down said:

So I guess a good question is whether folks want the ability to free-form create their character based on a proficiency system or whether they want everything tied to a class/race system.

Why not a mixture? The old system was a bit too rigid and silly with characters losing abilities if they switched classes. I think the only thing that should not ever be able to change is something tied to race. 
 

I would say proficiencies are able to be chosen, but we have “guides” saying for example “if you want to be a fighter, choose this one; if you want to be like a mage, pick this one.” That way players can really decide who/what their character is. Of course a respec option would probably be necessary at a cost so players wouldn’t have to drop a character and create a new one all the time. 

[Waterbrick Down]

4 hours ago, KotZ said:

Why not a mixture? The old system was a bit too rigid and silly with characters losing abilities if they switched classes. I think the only thing that should not ever be able to change is something tied to race. 
 

I would say proficiencies are able to be chosen, but we have “guides” saying for example “if you want to be a fighter, choose this one; if you want to be like a mage, pick this one.” That way players can really decide who/what their character is. Of course a respec option would probably be necessary at a cost so players wouldn’t have to drop a character and create a new one all the time. 

A mixture tends to be complicated (think D&D) and trying to keep it simple is the goal. The downside to having everything proficiency based is character mechanics do not vary dependent upon those proficiencies. In Heroica 1.0 the only way you could heal (outside of consumables) was if you were a cleric. In a proficiency only based system, anyone can heal, but only those who advance their medicine proficiency can do it consistently.The same goes for sneak attacks, magic, shielding, etc. Essentially proficiency based systems allow for complete character customization at the cost of unique mechanics. Class systems allow for unique mechanics, but take away some of the customization. This also effects advancement. In proficiency based systems you simply become more reliable at certain skills and the mechanics stay the same, in class based systems you tend to get new different mechanics available to you.

[Kintobor]

I think at this point we need to stop pondering what kind of system to use and just get a system hammered out and test run it.  

 

[Tezclatipoca]

10 hours ago, KotZ said:

Why not a mixture? The old system was a bit too rigid and silly with characters losing abilities if they switched classes. I think the only thing that should not ever be able to change is something tied to race. 
 

I would say proficiencies are able to be chosen, but we have “guides” saying for example “if you want to be a fighter, choose this one; if you want to be like a mage, pick this one.” That way players can really decide who/what their character is. Of course a respec option would probably be necessary at a cost so players wouldn’t have to drop a character and create a new one all the time. 

I was more seeing this like you.

2 hours ago, Kintobor said:

I think at this point we need to stop pondering what kind of system to use and just get a system hammered out and test run it.  

 

Exactly !

That is why I am posting this to be tested (If of course you're ok with the main concept) :

 

Here are the main rules :

In Heroica the RPG you will have to explore a world, made by a GM who will perform for you an adventure.

The GM will create NPCs and ennemies and will be responsible of the adventure.

Your character will encounter various situations in the Adventure and will probably will end in a fight soon or later.

So, you'll have to roll dice (with the GM) to determine if you succeed or not in an action.

The main abilities are using those dice and are listed below :

Agility :

This ability is mainly used to determine who is striking first, but can also been used in many tests out of a fight.

The character having the highest rank in Agility is the first to roll the dice in a fight. It is always usefull to strike an ennemy before he can attck you !

Attack :

This abilty is used to deal damage from the first row. It is also a good way to see your character strength and can be used out of a fight in force tests.

At first, your character will only have 1die in Attack. Though, it can be combined with the range die to boost the score at 2dice but you'll loose the Range ability.

Range :

This ability is the main way to deal damage from second row.

It works the same way as the Attack one. And of course, you can sacrifice your Attack to have a 2^nd die to roll in range but it will be impossible for you to strike in first row.

Magic/Tech :

This ability is mainly used to cast spells (if possible) or use some tech equipments.

It allows your character to roll 1die in any row of his choose and deal damages like described in the spell/tech used. Be careful this ability is consuming Resistance !

Resistance :

This ability is working like the Agility, it is a fixed score.

It gives the amount of armor, so the damage that can be absorbed by a character before being hit on his Life.

But it is also the amount of points a character can allow to cast a spell or use a tech as if it was Mana. But the amount of resistance left will only be used to determine the armor; so casting a spell can be dangerous for the caster !

Vital Points (VP) or Life :

This ability is simply your amount of Life points, and if it hits 0 you'll be probably out of combat or your avatar can be dreadfully harmed or worst : dead !

Then, for this reason, It is not a good idea to reach 0 Life...

 

So when your character is entering in a fight, it is mainly occuring like this :

 

The GM will assign each ennemy in the first or second row.

Then, each character of the group will assign himslf to a line : The first row or the second row.

The agility of each fighter (Characters and Ennemies) will be compared to define the order of the battle.

Then each Fighter will assign a possible target to deal with.

Then each character will roll the dice during their turn, according all their abilities.

So, for example : a first row fighter playing at first will roll the die he has in his Attack ability and will deal the damages according his Equipment and Rank (considering a one hand sword with a 5 needed to hit; if the die rolls a 4, the attack is a miss but, if the character is a at Rank "Warrior", he can reroll the die one time and then can perform a 5 to deal 5 damage to a first row ennemy facing him)

Then each damage is compared to the Resistance ability and is re adapted calculating like this :

 

Damage dealt – Res of the character = Damage left to inflict

 

If there is still damage after that, then the life of the target is impacted and diminishes of the amount of the damage left.

For example : our Warrior with his one hand sword, makes a 5 damage hit on a target with 1 resistance, he will deal 4 Life damage on this target.

Then each fighter at 0 Life will be out of combat and will not be able to play into the fight. Some circumstancies could help the character's avatars not dying, but we will see that later on. Ennemies at 0 Life are simply dead and will give their amount of VP as XP in reward.

 

And You'll have to choose a Rank or Job speciality :

 

Warrior :

You can reroll a die per turn for an attack in first row. A warrior have to sacrifice his range attack to win a second die in first row instead.

Ranger :

You can split a die to obtain a 1 plus the rest of the die per turn. It can be useful for many equipments and makes the ranger a polyvalent rank.

Sharpshooter :

You can concentrate an attack from the second row and keep it to be used for the next turn to add it to your damages and hit automatically your target, once per target. A Sharpshooter have to sacrifice 1 die in close combat to win it in range attack.

Techy :

You can use all your resistance once per battle instead of rolling a Die to make automatical damages to your target.

Priest :

Instead of attacking in a turn, you can use 1Die to heal you or one of your team mates.

 

Well, for now, this is all I have written. I am not sure it is at your taste for all of you, but I am trying to keep it easy and playable in this Forum.

Don't hesitate to make remarks and help me build and better this first draw.

 

[KotZ]

9 hours ago, Waterbrick Down said:

A mixture tends to be complicated (think D&D) and trying to keep it simple is the goal. The downside to having everything proficiency based is character mechanics do not vary dependent upon those proficiencies. In Heroica 1.0 the only way you could heal (outside of consumables) was if you were a cleric. In a proficiency only based system, anyone can heal, but only those who advance their medicine proficiency can do it consistently.The same goes for sneak attacks, magic, shielding, etc. Essentially proficiency based systems allow for complete character customization at the cost of unique mechanics. Class systems allow for unique mechanics, but take away some of the customization. This also effects advancement. In proficiency based systems you simply become more reliable at certain skills and the mechanics stay the same, in class based systems you tend to get new different mechanics available to you.

Maybe I misphrased it. What I was trying to suggest is by mixture, maybe much more of the proficiency system (essentially just that). BUT we have guides, similar to the stat sheets Sandy made for each class that allow the players who want a more rigid structure, or the idea of one at least, to have that and see what proficiencies would make the min/max fighter, cleric, etc, like how H1 did. So I guess I'm really just suggesting proficiency with an optional guide.

While it is more complex, I think character creation/proficiencies should be the most complex thing H2.0 should have. While I loved playing Kiray as a knight, there were times I just wish she had a skill like heal so a consumable wouldn't have to be used, even if it was just 1 or 2 HP. And the structure of reaching Class X at level 15 or something, and then Class Y at level 30 definitely made it (in my opinion) more difficult as the years went on for newer players to get a character they wanted to be. But there are pros and cons to all.

6 hours ago, Kintobor said:

I think at this point we need to stop pondering what kind of system to use and just get a system hammered out and test run it. 

I'm all for your idea.

3 hours ago, Faladrin said:

That is why I am posting this to be tested (If of course you're ok with the main concept) :

Here are the main rules :

In Heroica the RPG you will have to explore a world, made by a GM who will perform for you an adventure.

The GM will create NPCs and ennemies and will be responsible of the adventure.

Your character will encounter various situations in the Adventure and will probably will end in a fight soon or later.

So, you'll have to roll dice (with the GM) to determine if you succeed or not in an action.

The main abilities are using those dice and are listed below :

Agility :

This ability is mainly used to determine who is striking first, but can also been used in many tests out of a fight.

The character having the highest rank in Agility is the first to roll the dice in a fight. It is always usefull to strike an ennemy before he can attck you !

Attack :

This abilty is used to deal damage from the first row. It is also a good way to see your character strength and can be used out of a fight in force tests.

At first, your character will only have 1die in Attack. Though, it can be combined with the range die to boost the score at 2dice but you'll loose the Range ability.

Range :

This ability is the main way to deal damage from second row.

It works the same way as the Attack one. And of course, you can sacrifice your Attack to have a 2^nd die to roll in range but it will be impossible for you to strike in first row.

Magic/Tech :

This ability is mainly used to cast spells (if possible) or use some tech equipments.

It allows your character to roll 1die in any row of his choose and deal damages like described in the spell/tech used. Be careful this ability is consuming Resistance !

Resistance :

This ability is working like the Agility, it is a fixed score.

It gives the amount of armor, so the damage that can be absorbed by a character before being hit on his Life.

But it is also the amount of points a character can allow to cast a spell or use a tech as if it was Mana. But the amount of resistance left will only be used to determine the armor; so casting a spell can be dangerous for the caster !

Vital Points (VP) or Life :

This ability is simply your amount of Life points, and if it hits 0 you'll be probably out of combat or your avatar can be dreadfully harmed or worst : dead !

Then, for this reason, It is not a good idea to reach 0 Life...

 

So when your character is entering in a fight, it is mainly occuring like this :

 

The GM will assign each ennemy in the first or second row.

Then, each character of the group will assign himslf to a line : The first row or the second row.

The agility of each fighter (Characters and Ennemies) will be compared to define the order of the battle.

Then each Fighter will assign a possible target to deal with.

Then each character will roll the dice during their turn, according all their abilities.

So, for example : a first row fighter playing at first will roll the die he has in his Attack ability and will deal the damages according his Equipment and Rank (considering a one hand sword with a 5 needed to hit; if the die rolls a 4, the attack is a miss but, if the character is a at Rank "Warrior", he can reroll the die one time and then can perform a 5 to deal 5 damage to a first row ennemy facing him)

Then each damage is compared to the Resistance ability and is re adapted calculating like this :

 

Damage dealt – Res of the character = Damage left to inflict

 

If there is still damage after that, then the life of the target is impacted and diminishes of the amount of the damage left.

For example : our Warrior with his one hand sword, makes a 5 damage hit on a target with 1 resistance, he will deal 4 Life damage on this target.

Then each fighter at 0 Life will be out of combat and will not be able to play into the fight. Some circumstancies could help the character's avatars not dying, but we will see that later on. Ennemies at 0 Life are simply dead and will give their amount of VP as XP in reward.

 

And You'll have to choose a Rank or Job speciality :

 

Warrior :

You can reroll a die per turn for an attack in first row. A warrior have to sacrifice his range attack to win a second die in first row instead.

Ranger :

You can split a die to obtain a 1 plus the rest of the die per turn. It can be useful for many equipments and makes the ranger a polyvalent rank.

Sharpshooter :

You can concentrate an attack from the second row and keep it to be used for the next turn to add it to your damages and hit automatically your target, once per target. A Sharpshooter have to sacrifice 1 die in close combat to win it in range attack.

Techy :

You can use all your resistance once per battle instead of rolling a Die to make automatical damages to your target.

Priest :

Instead of attacking in a turn, you can use 1Die to heal you or one of your team mates.

 

Well, for now, this is all I have written. I am not sure it is at your taste for all of you, but I am trying to keep it easy and playable in this Forum.

Don't hesitate to make remarks and help me build and better this first draw.

 

I like the rules you put out. Seem relatively simple from the getgo (only thing to make sure through playtesting is if they are future proof).

I also just read through (finally I have time) to read through your idea for story on the previous post. Right now, my big/minor suggestion is the "Agency" maybe could be called "Heroica" or "Heroica Agency" because a little bit of a throwback is always awesome in my book. Otherwise, I think the premise you have is pretty great. While not a huge fan of time travel or visitn specific LEGO themed worlds, I think there's a way to make it all cohesive.

[Tezclatipoca]

51 minutes ago, KotZ said:

I'm all for your idea.

I like the rules you put out. Seem relatively simple from the getgo (only thing to make sure through playtesting is if they are future proof).

I also just read through (finally I have time) to read through your idea for story on the previous post. Right now, my big/minor suggestion is the "Agency" maybe could be called "Heroica" or "Heroica Agency" because a little bit of a throwback is always awesome in my book. Otherwise, I think the premise you have is pretty great. While not a huge fan of time travel or visitn specific LEGO themed worlds, I think there's a way to make it all cohesive.

Thank you! 

I'm happy you like it.

Of course, the rules have to be tested and I think we could go to more Ranks in the Future. I just created the most obvious ranks that seemed necessary, without being too much specific, in order to apply them in any Theme.

And you're right, The "Agency" should be called the "Heroica Agency". I've created this in order to leave us the opportunity to create more "Factions" if we want.

I was thinking to create some Independant Travelers, working out of The Agency, considered too rigid and inefficient for them.

And also, there is a place to play the outlaws (they could name themselves of another name though), thinking they are in the right path, and the Agency is too much tyranic.

[KotZ]

14 hours ago, Faladrin said:

Thank you! 

I'm happy you like it.

Of course, the rules have to be tested and I think we could go to more Ranks in the Future. I just created the most obvious ranks that seemed necessary, without being too much specific, in order to apply them in any Theme.

And you're right, The "Agency" should be called the "Heroica Agency". I've created this in order to leave us the opportunity to create more "Factions" if we want.

I was thinking to create some Independant Travelers, working out of The Agency, considered too rigid and inefficient for them.

And also, there is a place to play the outlaws (they could name themselves of another name though), thinking they are in the right path, and the Agency is too much tyranic.

Not sure how much of the previous game you read, but we did have various factions players could align themselves with (it was essentially the overarching main plot of the entire game). Various player characters had varying opinions on the factions, which allowed for lots of fun, great roleplay, especially when a QM tailored quest story points to the players' characters.

The big issue with the factions was that many were tied to the ranks/classes, which resulted in a number of issues when changing classes. I personally think perks for aligning with factions should be in an H2.0, but you should be able to keep most of them like skills you unlock.

[Tezclatipoca]

8 hours ago, KotZ said:

Not sure how much of the previous game you read, but we did have various factions players could align themselves with (it was essentially the overarching main plot of the entire game). Various player characters had varying opinions on the factions, which allowed for lots of fun, great roleplay, especially when a QM tailored quest story points to the players' characters.

The big issue with the factions was that many were tied to the ranks/classes, which resulted in a number of issues when changing classes. I personally think perks for aligning with factions should be in an H2.0, but you should be able to keep most of them like skills you unlock.

Sure, I've read the different Faction Topics. At least, the first pages of all of them.

I am seing the Factions like a good base to Role Play (RP) and also don't want to limit the Character Players on them.

So changing Faction should be allowed in a way and Faction is more here to give the players special Equipments. I am not sure that limiting the players in a certain class or job inside a Faction is a good approach, So, I'd like this part more free.

Like I've written the rules, I see the Players build their Character with the Abilities (mainly with this aspect) and the Equipments (less essential, as we can find equipment in the quests) and I see the Ranks and the Factions like an addition to RP.

 

For now, I am working on the XP distribution and the Levels. I think an exponential curb of distriution should do the work.

I am still thinikng using mainly the damage dealt to calculate the XP because to incorporate the healing aspect, it's nice to count also the damage healed by a character. We can also integrate the damage endured by the Character as a modifier too !

Well, to be short, an XP based on VP is really easy to manage...

[Yzalirk]

On 10/6/2019 at 6:30 PM, Kintobor said:

I think at this point we need to stop pondering what kind of system to use and just get a system hammered out and test run it.  

 

Agreed.

I say rig up a system for proficiencies and give it a test run because it is the new idea being tossed around.  If it works relatively well, it can be fine tuned.  We could always resort to the class system if the proficiencies do not work.  We won’t know if we just keep talking about it.

[Tezclatipoca]

18 hours ago, Goliath said:

Agreed.

I say rig up a system for proficiencies and give it a test run because it is the new idea being tossed around.  If it works relatively well, it can be fine tuned.  We could always resort to the class system if the proficiencies do not work.  We won’t know if we just keep talking about it.

Exactly.

That's why I have written some rules already.

I think it works, my system is ready to be tested in its minimal form! Perhaps with a little adjustment in the Resistance system (we could use also a die to use it with equipment) but, it needs some testing now :

@KotZ @Kintobor @Goliath @Waterbrick Down and @Sandy do you think it could do the job for a Heroica 2.0 ?

And could we create a "Rules Redactors Group" to finalize the official rules in order to launch Heroica 2.0 soon ?

[KotZ]

6 hours ago, Faladrin said:

Exactly.

That's why I have written some rules already.

I think it works, my system is ready to be tested in its minimal form! Perhaps with a little adjustment in the Resistance system (we could use also a die to use it with equipment) but, it needs some testing now :

@KotZ @Kintobor @Goliath @Waterbrick Down and @Sandy do you think it could do the job for a Heroica 2.0 ?

And could we create a "Rules Redactors Group" to finalize the official rules in order to launch Heroica 2.0 soon ?

I think so, just needs some playtesting. I'm down for it.

[Tezclatipoca]

1 hour ago, KotZ said:

I think so, just needs some playtesting. I'm down for it.

Great !

I will right a little Quest in order to test these rules. Should I post it like any new quest ? or should I PM it ?

And I will give you here the Character Creation Guide (the basics), otherwise you'll not be able to have a character

So to create your character, you have to :

- Find him a name.

Well, it's obvious, but don't use any offensive name of course !

- Find him a race.

Just for Roleplay. There are many races available around all the LEGO Themes. Be careful! Some races can have conflictual relationships with some others.

- Find him a story.

Just a few lines of text showing why the Hero is here and where he is from.

- Define his Rank, or Job amongst :

Warrior :

You can reroll a die per turn for an attack in first row. A warrior have to sacrifice his range attack to win a second die in Attack at first row instead.

Ranger :

You can split a die to obtain a 1 plus the rest of the die per turn. It can be useful for many equipments and makes the ranger a polyvalent rank.

Sharpshooter :

You can concentrate a range attack from the second row and keep the total of your die for the next turn to add it to your die roll in the next turn and then hit automatically your target, only once per target. A Sharpshooter have to sacrifice 1 die in close combat to win it in range attack.

Techy :

You can use all your resistance once per battle instead of rolling a Die to make automatical damages to your target.

Priest :

Instead of attacking in a turn, you can use 1Die to heal you or one of your team mates anywhere in the battlefield.

- Define his Abilities :

Agility (Agi) :

The character having the highest rank in Agility is the first to roll the dice in a fight. It is always usefull to strike an ennemy before he can attack you !

Any hero have 1 in Agility at the beginning.

Attack (Att) :

This abilty is used to deal damage from the first row, with a weapon (well, ideally...)

Any hero have just 1D6 (1 six faces die) in Attack at the beginning.

Range Attack (Ran) :

This ability is the main way to deal damage from second row, ideally with a range weapon.

Any hero have just 1D6 (1 six faces die) in Range at the beginning.

Magic/Tech (Mag) :

This ability is mainly used to cast spells (if possible) or use some tech equipments.

Any hero have just 1D6 (1 six faces die) in Magic or Tech at the beginning.

Resistance (Res) :

This ability is working like the Agility, it is a fixed score.

It gives the amount of armor, so the damage that can be absorbed by a character before being hit on his Vital Points.

Any hero have just 0 Res, so, no Resistance value at the beginning. It can be greatly improved by some equipments though.

Health, life or Vital Points (VP) :

It's just the amount of damage your character can endure.

Any hero have 20/20 VP at the beginning.

- Deal with his Equipment Slots (ES) :

Any hero have 3 Equipment slots available at the beginning.

- Keep track of his Experience (XP) :

Of course, at the beginning, any hero have 0XP

- Count his gold :

Many quests give gold as money, it's mainly used to buy Equipment.

Any hero have 0 Gold at the beginning.

 

Well, I think it's the main Guide I can provide.

We should follow it like it is for now, and try to test it !

If everyone is good with it, tell me !

And if you see some remarks or comments to be added, don't hesitate to tell me !

[KotZ]

I like it, @Faladrin. It seems simple enough with just a hint of complexity, and seems like there's a good way to grow skills as time goes on.

As for the actual playtest, I think player should be limited to a set, small number. Of course there is always the chance for more playtesting and others to try it out, but the test should be small, no more than four. I think either a new thread linking back to here and vice versa would make sense if you wanted to post it not just in this thread.

[Tezclatipoca]

4 hours ago, KotZ said:

I like it, @Faladrin. It seems simple enough with just a hint of complexity, and seems like there's a good way to grow skills as time goes on.

As for the actual playtest, I think player should be limited to a set, small number. Of course there is always the chance for more playtesting and others to try it out, but the test should be small, no more than four. I think either a new thread linking back to here and vice versa would make sense if you wanted to post it not just in this thread.

Thanks!

I agree, a little group for testing is better, I am not thinking more than 4 players like you suggested.

I will write something up then for the Testing Quest (It will be in a Piratey style, my favourite LEGO Theme... )

[Kintobor]

I’m... not particularly fond of the mechanics put forth. Vagueness is my big issue. What is magic and tech, and what do they do? How does combat work? What do you get from leveling up? Is there a “to hit” roll to determine if you hit an enemy? You’re also not addressing problems Heroica 1.0 had, especially priests healing abilities not being as effective as items since it’s all up to random chance how much they heal. 

 

[Tezclatipoca]

11 hours ago, Kintobor said:

I’m... not particularly fond of the mechanics put forth. Vagueness is my big issue. What is magic and tech, and what do they do? How does combat work? What do you get from leveling up? Is there a “to hit” roll to determine if you hit an enemy? You’re also not addressing problems Heroica 1.0 had, especially priests healing abilities not being as effective as items since it’s all up to random chance how much they heal. 

 

I understand your concerns.

Magic and Tech are, for now, more using spell rolls or technical equipments and will probably be heavily based on some sort of artifacts and objects.

The roll to hit is not necessary because linked to the Equipment. For example, a warrior with a one hand sword would have to roll a 5 (on 2D6, and one can be rerolled : speciality of the warrior) to hit 5 or 6 damages to his target. We can also have armors giving Resistance and there is always a way to boost the priest healing ability with a healing staff (for example that could give him a +3 on the Die result).

Globally, all my rules are general rules to guide us but the main work is on the Equipments then.

For XP and leveling, I think an XP based on VP (counting damages dealt to a target and also damages healed) is to be used with a progressive curb. The concept of the XP will be to buy more dice to roll, in order to deal more damages for example.

Well, to be clear, I understand I could have been vague for now, The rules here are just a simple guide, and I wanted them the simpliest possible. Writing some Equipment descriptions will help.

[Kintobor]

@Faladrin, I didn’t mean to come of harsh or aggressive, it’s just I’m wanting to make sure you’re aware of some of the issues Heroica had. 

My big concern is that your walking into a big issue Heroica had, which is power creep through the use of items, especially equipment. It got to the point where the fights got too complicated because the heroes were just so ridiculously powerful.

I think the idea of giving weapons a die roll in which one needs to hit is an interesting mechanic, similar to Warhammer in a lot of ways. I don’t know if a d6 would be enough to do what you want to accomplish, honestly.

I don’t dislike the idea, though, of buying dice to use for skills and combat. That could be an interesting avenue to look into. 

If anyone is familiar with Vampire: The Masquerade, that game has a system where your rank in a skill determines how many ten sided dice you throw when making your skill check. The more difficult a scenario, the more successes you need to roll.

[Waterbrick Down]

So I’ve been going back and forth and I’d like to put a slightly modified dice pool system out there to try. For those of you not familiar with dice pool systems you roll a number of d6's equal to your given skill, 1-3 is failure, 4-6 success. The number of success is compared against a target number or an opposed roll and the result is determined from there.

Difficulty Level
Simple: 1 Successes
Skilled: 3 Successes
Difficult: 5 Successes
Impossible: 7 Successes
Max Dice Pool = 10

Actions in Combat
Attack: (Weapon Proficiency Dice + Weapon Rating) - (Opponents Skill Dice Successes + Armor Rating) = Damage done
Defend: Add Skill Attribute Dice to player’s next Defense pool
Rally: Add Smart Attribute Dice to Player’s Attack pool
Magic: Arcana/Nature/Occult/Religion Proficiency Dice vs. Spell Difficulty Level
Any other action: 3 + Proficiency Dice vs Difficulty Level

Character Creation
10 Points, 3 starting Proficiencies at level 1, 3 HP
Additional Proficiencies cost the number being increased (i.e. to move a proficiency from 1 to 2 it requires 2 points, from 2 to 3 it requires 3 points, etc.)
Additional Hit Points cost 2 Points
Additional Attributes cost 2 Points

Attributes
Vitality (HP)
Strength (Every 2 = +1 HP, usually a requirement for kinetic weapons, and all armor)
Skill (Defensive stat for avoiding damage, rolled for initiative, usually a requirement for energy weapons)
Smarts (Every 1 = 1 new allowable Proficiency [over the starting 3], usually a requirement for elemental weapons)
Spirit (Every 1 = 2 known spells, often a requirement to cast spells of a certain potency)
Equipment (3 Slots)

Proficiencies

Acrobatics	Culture	Intimidation	Nature	Persuasion	Short Range Weapons
Arcana	Deception	Long Range Weapons	Occult	Piloting	Stealth
Artillery	Engineering	Medicine	Perception	Religion	Survival
Athletics	Insight	Melee Weapons	Performance	Sleight of Hand	Technology

Weapon Ratings (Kinetic Weapons typically have Strength requirements, Energy Weapons typically have Skill requirements, Elemental Weapons typically have Smarts requirements):
Standard: +1 Success (Minimum corresponding Attribute = 0)
Calibrated: +2 Success (Minimum corresponding Attribute = 3)
Engineered: +3 Success (Minimum corresponding Attribute = 5)
Precision: +4 Success (Minimum corresponding Attribute = 7)

Armor Ratings (Kinetic, Energy, Elemental, All armor typically have strength requirements):
Standard: +1 (Minimum Strength Attribute = 1)
Padded: +2 (Minimum Strength Attribute = 2)
Reinforced: +3 (Minimum Strength Attribute = 4)
Composite: +4 (Minimum Strength Attribute = 6)

Points for leveling up are awarded after a quest and can be determined by number of combats/quest objectives met, etc.

There’s a lot of things that can be added to the system as we go: Weapon type effectiveness against certain armor, Monster types, classes (either by adding extra proficiencies, or changing how actions/skill checks/combat checks work), racial attributes, terrain effects, and of course spells. This should be a good starting point though.

Is there a preference for pre-generated characters for a first test or do folks actually want to try creating there own?
 

[Tezclatipoca]

11 hours ago, Kintobor said:

@Faladrin, I didn’t mean to come of harsh or aggressive, it’s just I’m wanting to make sure you’re aware of some of the issues Heroica had. 

My big concern is that your walking into a big issue Heroica had, which is power creep through the use of items, especially equipment. It got to the point where the fights got too complicated because the heroes were just so ridiculously powerful.

I think the idea of giving weapons a die roll in which one needs to hit is an interesting mechanic, similar to Warhammer in a lot of ways. I don’t know if a d6 would be enough to do what you want to accomplish, honestly.

I don’t dislike the idea, though, of buying dice to use for skills and combat. That could be an interesting avenue to look into. 

If anyone is familiar with Vampire: The Masquerade, that game has a system where your rank in a skill determines how many ten sided dice you throw when making your skill check. The more difficult a scenario, the more successes you need to roll.

Thank you for your comment.

I don't fell you were harsh or aggressive, no problems. 

I see what you're saying, and my system could lead to the same issue Heroica had. you seem to have right on this point. OP Heroes is not interesting but, we don't want to see them fall too frequently, do we ?

With the Vampire : The Masquerade rank system you're suggesting, it could lead to make weigh a heavy responsibility upon the shoulders of the GM; and if he doesn't equilibrate his scenario, it could lead to frustrating games for the players.

your idea to use 10 sided dice could be good though. I am not stuck on 6 ones.

After all, I was just throwing ideas to debate on, and I know I am not the most legitimate guy to do this.

I find this game very entertaining, and would love to see it revive, in order to play it. 

[Yzalirk]

10 hours ago, Waterbrick Down said:

So I’ve been going back and forth and I’d like to put a slightly modified dice pool system out there to try. For those of you not familiar with dice pool systems you roll a number of d6's equal to your given skill, 1-3 is failure, 4-6 success. The number of success is compared against a target number or an opposed roll and the result is determined from there.

Difficulty Level
Simple: 1 Successes
Skilled: 3 Successes
Difficult: 5 Successes
Impossible: 7 Successes
Max Dice Pool = 10

Actions in Combat
Attack: (Weapon Proficiency Dice + Weapon Rating) - (Opponents Skill Dice Successes + Armor Rating) = Damage done
Defend: Add Skill Attribute Dice to player’s next Defense pool
Rally: Add Smart Attribute Dice to Player’s Attack pool
Magic: Arcana/Nature/Occult/Religion Proficiency Dice vs. Spell Difficulty Level
Any other action: 3 + Proficiency Dice vs Difficulty Level

Character Creation
10 Points, 3 starting Proficiencies at level 1, 3 HP
Additional Proficiencies cost the number being increased (i.e. to move a proficiency from 1 to 2 it requires 2 points, from 2 to 3 it requires 3 points, etc.)
Additional Hit Points cost 2 Points
Additional Attributes cost 2 Points

Attributes
Vitality (HP)
Strength (Every 2 = +1 HP, usually a requirement for kinetic weapons, and all armor)
Skill (Defensive stat for avoiding damage, rolled for initiative, usually a requirement for energy weapons)
Smarts (Every 1 = 1 new allowable Proficiency [over the starting 3], usually a requirement for elemental weapons)
Spirit (Every 1 = 2 known spells, often a requirement to cast spells of a certain potency)
Equipment (3 Slots)

Proficiencies

Acrobatics	Culture	Intimidation	Nature	Persuasion	Short Range Weapons
Arcana	Deception	Long Range Weapons	Occult	Piloting	Stealth
Artillery	Engineering	Medicine	Perception	Religion	Survival
Athletics	Insight	Melee Weapons	Performance	Sleight of Hand	Technology

Weapon Ratings (Kinetic Weapons typically have Strength requirements, Energy Weapons typically have Skill requirements, Elemental Weapons typically have Smarts requirements):
Standard: +1 Success (Minimum corresponding Attribute = 0)
Calibrated: +2 Success (Minimum corresponding Attribute = 3)
Engineered: +3 Success (Minimum corresponding Attribute = 5)
Precision: +4 Success (Minimum corresponding Attribute = 7)

Armor Ratings (Kinetic, Energy, Elemental, All armor typically have strength requirements):
Standard: +1 (Minimum Strength Attribute = 1)
Padded: +2 (Minimum Strength Attribute = 2)
Reinforced: +3 (Minimum Strength Attribute = 4)
Composite: +4 (Minimum Strength Attribute = 6)

Points for leveling up are awarded after a quest and can be determined by number of combats/quest objectives met, etc.

There’s a lot of things that can be added to the system as we go: Weapon type effectiveness against certain armor, Monster types, classes (either by adding extra proficiencies, or changing how actions/skill checks/combat checks work), racial attributes, terrain effects, and of course spells. This should be a good starting point though.

Is there a preference for pre-generated characters for a first test or do folks actually want to try creating there own?
 

I think this is perfect!  It is very thought out but it ultimately does not seem too complicated.  

I also agree with the weapon type effectiveness versus certain enemies.  It might get a bit more complicated because of the variety of weapon types and enemy types but I may have an idea.  I think we should take a page from games like Destiny and Warframe when, or if, we get to that point.

And I just want to give my final thought on the theme of the game - I genuinely do not like the idea of using different LEGO Themes together.  Having Agents and Medieval together, for example, just feels weird.  I liked Heroica because it had Dungeons & Dragons tropes but it was mostly it’s own unique and original world.  I say we expand upon that.  Just take the world of Heroica but fast forward time thousands of years or so.  The story of Destiny is fantastic and could be a useful source for inspiration.

[samurai-turtle]

I was thinking about the "healer" issue and maybe have possible solution.  I am going use the old system for convenience (and I am a little confused about any new system right now). 

If you rolled... 

A "Shield" basically everyone  in the party gets fully healed. 

A "2" just the target gets fully healed.  

A "3" the target has 2/3 chance getting fully healed, otherwise only 2/3 of max  health is restored. 

A "4" the target has 1/2 chance getting fully healed, otherwise only 1/2 of max health is restored. 

A "5" the target has 1/3 chance getting fully healed, otherwise only 1/3 of max health is restored. 

A "6", well the healer failed (probably getting hit from the enemy).

 

[Waterbrick Down]

3 hours ago, Goliath said:

I think this is perfect!  It is very thought out but it ultimately does not seem too complicated.  

I also agree with the weapon type effectiveness versus certain enemies.  It might get a bit more complicated because of the variety of weapon types and enemy types but I may have an idea.  I think we should take a page from games like Destiny and Warframe when, or if, we get to that point.

And I just want to give my final thought on the theme of the game - I genuinely do not like the idea of using different LEGO Themes together.  Having Agents and Medieval together, for example, just feels weird.  I liked Heroica because it had Dungeons & Dragons tropes but it was mostly it’s own unique and original world.  I say we expand upon that.  Just take the world of Heroica but fast forward time thousands of years or so.  The story of Destiny is fantastic and could be a useful source for inspiration.

I second the consistent theme, the more I look at it, the more I'm working on something closer to the idea of aged sci-fi (think Starwars). While Science-fantasy is a good idea for accessibility, it's difficult to get a consistent look (Nexo knights is the closest).

1 hour ago, samurai-turtle said:

I was thinking about the "healer" issue and maybe have possible solution.  I am going use the old system for convenience (and I am a little confused about any new system right now). 

I think the best solution to the consumable issue is to either include a random element to the consumables or simply limit the number available in the setting. As for how the healing works in the system proposed, here's a spell example.

Healing Light (Heals HP = # Magic Proficiency Source (Religion/Nature) Successes over the DC)
Sustaining Healing DC 1, 1 target
Plentiful Healing DC 3, 2 targets
Generous Healing DC 5, 3 targets
Masterful DC 7, 4 targets

On 10/9/2019 at 11:15 AM, Faladrin said:

Great !

I will right a little Quest in order to test these rules. Should I post it like any new quest ? or should I PM it ?

And I will give you here the Character Creation Guide (the basics), otherwise you'll not be able to have a character

So to create your character, you have to :

I like the enthusiasm and I think the class abilities could potentially be worked in to a dice pool system impacting things like success criteria, die rerolls, extra dies, etc. I'd echo Kintober with one of the main issues of Heroica 1.0 was the power-creep of equipment and balancing equipment created by different DM's across the quests. There were a lot of times where a single item would be ok but when combined with another piece of equipment would create a very over-powered combo. Plus power creep due to equipment often creates a system where in gold/currency becomes the most important aspect of the system and classes/builds which emphasize it's generation start to skew the economy.

[Tezclatipoca]

2 hours ago, Waterbrick Down said:

I second the consistent theme, the more I look at it, the more I'm working on something closer to the idea of aged sci-fi (think Starwars). While Science-fantasy is a good idea for accessibility, it's difficult to get a consistent look (Nexo knights is the closest).

I like the enthusiasm and I think the class abilities could potentially be worked in to a dice pool system impacting things like success criteria, die rerolls, extra dies, etc. I'd echo Kintober with one of the main issues of Heroica 1.0 was the power-creep of equipment and balancing equipment created by different DM's across the quests. There were a lot of times where a single item would be ok but when combined with another piece of equipment would create a very over-powered combo. Plus power creep due to equipment often creates a system where in gold/currency becomes the most important aspect of the system and classes/builds which emphasize it's generation start to skew the economy.

Thank you for having read my ideas.

I am sure a good Sci Fantasy theme is a good way to go. In LEGO we've seen many interactions between differents Themes, like in Nexo Knights of course, like you said, but also in all the 2 last LEGO Movies, or in the Time Cruisers Theme from the 90's too ! It's a good old concept.

But, don't go to a too close to a Star Wars style as it is too much Sci Fi IMO.

You're probably right, Like Kintobor remarked it, my idea is not getting rid of the risk of an OP Equipment system that could lead to dangerous OP Combos, and of course Money would destroy the concept of building a Character with XP.

So, I am stepping back a little and I am staying ready to help.

 

[samurai-turtle]

10 hours ago, Waterbrick Down said:

I think the best solution to the consumable issue is to either include a random element to the consumables or simply limit the number available in the setting. As for how the healing works in the system proposed, here's a spell example.

Healing Light (Heals HP = # Magic Proficiency Source (Religion/Nature) Successes over the DC)
Sustaining Healing DC 1, 1 target
Plentiful Healing DC 3, 2 targets
Generous Healing DC 5, 3 targets
Masterful DC 7, 4 targets

Well to me it seems like havIng X amount of slots for potions is the way to go. I guess you would need a "belt" to carry even more potions. So an average player can carry six potions and if they want to carry six more potions they would have to equip a "belt". 

DC? I guess, I am not familiar enough with the lingo to get the spell casting stuff.   

[KotZ]

On 10/12/2019 at 9:02 AM, Goliath said:

I think this is perfect!  It is very thought out but it ultimately does not seem too complicated.  

I also agree with the weapon type effectiveness versus certain enemies.  It might get a bit more complicated because of the variety of weapon types and enemy types but I may have an idea.  I think we should take a page from games like Destiny and Warframe when, or if, we get to that point.

 

I agree, it's not too complicated but allows strategy. And weapon types allow some good variation and force players to carry mutliple loadouts rather than god-tier items.

Quote

And I just want to give my final thought on the theme of the game - I genuinely do not like the idea of using different LEGO Themes together.  Having Agents and Medieval together, for example, just feels weird.  I liked Heroica because it had Dungeons & Dragons tropes but it was mostly it’s own unique and original world.  I say we expand upon that.  Just take the world of Heroica but fast forward time thousands of years or so.  The story of Destiny is fantastic and could be a useful source for inspiration.

On 10/12/2019 at 12:21 PM, Waterbrick Down said:

I second the consistent theme, the more I look at it, the more I'm working on something closer to the idea of aged sci-fi (think Starwars). While Science-fantasy is a good idea for accessibility, it's difficult to get a consistent look (Nexo knights is the closest).

I think the best solution to the consumable issue is to either include a random element to the consumables or simply limit the number available in the setting. As for how the healing works in the system proposed, here's a spell example.

On 10/12/2019 at 2:45 PM, Faladrin said:

Thank you for having read my ideas.

I am sure a good Sci Fantasy theme is a good way to go. In LEGO we've seen many interactions between differents Themes, like in Nexo Knights of course, like you said, but also in all the 2 last LEGO Movies, or in the Time Cruisers Theme from the 90's too ! It's a good old concept.

But, don't go to a too close to a Star Wars style as it is too much Sci Fi IMO

For test quests, I personally don't mind mixing and matching themes. For the finalized game, I do think a sci-fi/fantasy needs to be consistent. Of course than can easily be references and quests that echo themes of Adventuers and Johnny Thunder or other themes, but I think the world should feel consistent. I would argue that a middle ground of aged sci-fi and true sci-fantasy is possible, especially with the multitude of space figures and parts across LEGO themes, as well as even more fantasy based ones like Ninjago. I think Nexo Knights is too flashy for an entire theme, but as a side faction who clearly are designed to be that way, it makes sense.

I think the main desire for sci-fi/fantasy, @Faladrin, is that Heroica was so fantasy based that people are wanting the opposite in terms of setting.

19 hours ago, samurai-turtle said:

Well to me it seems like havIng X amount of slots for potions is the way to go. I guess you would need a "belt" to carry even more potions. So an average player can carry six potions and if they want to carry six more potions they would have to equip a "belt".

I honestly would love for something like this, where when you get picked for a quest, you can adjust what spells or tools you have on hand, so in your example, even average players (if they don't have a "belt" to equip more potions) can choose what they might need, and keep the rest in their inventory "offsite" or access it maybe for a price (which I'm not too keen on). Perhaps any potion equipped to a belt or such is a guaranteed to have a 100% success rate, but "reaching into your pack" is a random chance of success.